Hello chummers,

I am getting back into shadowrun after a long time. I am making a naga sapient critter, and i was wondering about the price for their armor. I know that runners companion says to go with the normal adjustments for Meta humans which i think is 25% more. But even at 50% i feel that trying to armor a 10 meter (32.8 foot) creature even in light armor would be costly event. Yes i know i could roll with the rule, and pay less but i am trying to see what some experienced players/GM would say. My GM is willing to go the cheaper route, but i want this character to fill the pinch of being something that just not right in normal society. Thank you for your time and have a sweet day!

So, double or triple the cost. They're pretty rare, but not so rare that it's a unique custom job. As a naga, you're going get PLENTY of feeling like society doesn't fit you.

actually, given their widespread use as security critters armor may not be nearly as rare as it would be for some other sapient critters.

edit: of course, you may have to order your naga armor from the same place you would order hell hound barding, which might feel remarkably undignified...

edit2: heh, just had a funny thought... wouldn't it be weird if there was a naga-run company in the naga kingdom (over in cambodia iirc?) that sold national military armor to security companies?

Gotta wonder though- just how does a snake move while wearing armor? Second skin armor might work (would that be called "naga-hide"?), but most kevlar type armor is going to mess up the undulative ground contact that allows a snake to move. And just plain forget about armor with plates, which rules out all the security and military armors. Really, a better bet might be a personal mobility vehicle, or some such. Not because you can't climb stairs, but because you can't climb anything while wearing clothes.

Duh, you just don't armor the bit that contacts the ground.

This gets mentioned specifically in Running Wild in the comments - the comment suggests that thus far, nobody's figured out the trick to doing so without interfering with their movement. But, as Yerameyahu notes, as long as the armor's flexible enough to permit the naga to undulate and doesn't cover the stomach scales, it might be possible? I don't know that much about how snakes move, though.

It would look a bit like, uh, a three-quarters banana peel, with a collar at the throat, I guess? You couldn't strap it all over and it would have to be snug or they'd just wriggle out of it eventually...

Incidentally, the idea of naga milspec armor was a very cool mental image. I'm seeing it with big, baroque East Asian antlers on the "helmet".

In which case you have a snake crawling around under a blanket, more or less. Not gonna stay on very well, which would greatly decrease its protective value. I suppose you could just leave open a few contact points, kinda like cut-outs in a peek-a-boo dress, and armor the rest of the belly (or at least run bands across it to keep the armor in place) but really, snakes just don't lend themselves to wearing heavy (if any) clothing.

On the other hand, there's that nano-tech paste (forget what its called just now) that works just like your skin but adds armor- that would do the trick nicely.

PS- I had a pet python, 12 feet and 40 lbs. I can't imagine her NOT wriggling out of literally any sort of clothing, or moving well while wearing some. Then again, she was about as smart as a house plant- a really smart snake might figure out how to do it.

Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out how to get one to wear a top hat.

Hmm- how about this- line the inside of the "3/4 banana peel" with gekko grip. Probably not very comfortable (would prevent coiling up) and the naga would need help getting into and out of it (unless the grip can be turned off) but it may beat the alternative.

Thanks everyone for your Reponses, After some thought i think we will scrap most mundane armor. Price for playing a Naga. Nice thing is that i am playing a shaman type tradition so i have magic to help me through the adventure. And when i get the cash i will spring for the nano tech Altskin. But we are talking about 3/1 armor bonus for 2,000 yen for 24 hour application

Our one type of armor we are going to run with is the second skin line out of arsenal. We will allow it to display my normal skin color but we are talking about 20,000 yen for 4/1 which is allot better than Altskin.

Ha just a thought, a drone to help put on and off the clothing....tech! what would life be with out it

That was my first thought, actually; I hadn't thought about the logistics of snake movement, so I figured why not write the metahuman alteration cost off as shipping from Cambodia and call it a day? Southeast Asia's a war zone, the snakes would be smart enough to trade those gems for some protection.

I'm just saying, gentlemen, that I think in 2070 they could invent *glue*. There's just no reason our science can't solve this tiny problem. No, naga armor will not be terribly convenient. But I think we can handle the 'snake in a blanket' problem.

Ooh, just read Mongoose' post. Gecko Grip, perfect.

Or a shapchange spell into a humanoid of the naga's choice that is sustained via a sustaining foci.

How about implants? Orthoskin would seem like the best fit, with maybe some dermal plating working as well. Much less encumbering.

Yes, but you'd want both. Worn armor and implants are totally separate. That, and implants for Awakened sapient critters are not so cheap.

I was going to suggest double-sided tape or polydent. Actually, many nipple tassels that professionals wear are attached with denture cream (neat fact-o).

Or you could just SURGE the naga for Shiva arms and wear an armored jacket..

Hehe. Is there anything more abusive than SURGEing arms onto a Naga? (Answer: yes, of course there is!)

In my experience:

A naga's biggest problem (in play) is his movement rate vs. his body length.
(10m long, but 5/20 movement, which even dwarves keep up with.)

My only issue with implants is that it would kill of my magic attribute.

We are playing a 500 point BP and my Naga has a background of security at Saeder Krupp Salish subsidiary, awakened at age 6, and then was trained as a shaman. I was allowed to build my own tradition, were i used Hindu lore and named it Ngar shaman. Still working on specifics of his background, like who did he impress, who did he upset, how many defenses of the facility was he involved in, which ones did he fail in, what has he done in the year or so after splitting with the corp and making his way first to Vancouver than to Seattle. I will not have sheets of information, but bullets with minor details were my GM can draw on any (or none) of the information while we play out our story.

One of the positive qualities i took is trust fund (20 BP high), the GM allowed it to reflect my race adjustment cost of 50% and i will be living in the Hindu population center found in part of Maple valley Renton (real life there is one of the major temples found there: Sanatan Dharma Temple and Cultural Center). This brings a acceptance of my immediate neighbors but if i go further into Renton than i face possible humanis and the Night hunters gang. All in all i have taken as many steps in creating the Naga to work him into society, using the spells magic fingers, levitate, shapechange (as i read it i can only change into critters +-2 body [body 5 for naga] so far my best option for walking the streets is a hyena), and improved invisibility. I also took the In debt negative quality and bought up one power focus, and four sustaining focus so i can keep some of these spells active for a continued basis. Only needed to re-cast when i fail my disruption roll.

Edit: I will use shapechange to keep pace with my fellow runners, also it will allow me to move a little better when stealth or situation demands.

I

Ah, I see. Just in case this slipped through: the Armor spell sounds like it would suit alot of your needs. Or just shapechange(troll/ork/whatever) and wear regular armor while changed?

EDIT: Forgot how to spell 'wear', apparently

Can you use shapchange for meta human? I thought it was only Critter SR4A page 211: "Shapechange transforms a voluntary subject into a normal (non-paranormal) critter, though the subject retains human consciousness. The subject can only assume the form of a critter whose base Body rating is 2 points greater or less than her own. Consult the Critters section, p. 292, for the subject’s Physical attributes while in critter form."

Edit: Sorry after 8 years in the Army i have become very literal, black and white is really hard for me to look outside the box

Dragons can. It's a common-enough house rule.

Wow this changes alot of my plans for the naga, thank you very much. I have not role played in years and i am so looking forward to this.

How about the spell that changes clothing's shape and appearance (whatever it was called)? Only changes the look and fit of the item, not its mechanics, such as armor value.

Fashion, from street magic.

Fashion, thank you.
Its permanent, no?

Yup. Makeover and Healthy Glow are as well.

There's a spell that permanently resizes clothing, just like Metahuman (and apparently critter) customization does, for free? Oy.

The best thing about Fashion is that it can't change the protective value of the clothing.

Which is a good thing, if you want to make it critter shaped, but keep the armor value!

Sounds broken. From the description, I don't really think it *can* handle either Metahuman Customization or critter sizing. It only changes "its cut, color, pattern, and fit." And "it must cover approximately the same amount of area". It seems clear that the intent is tailoring.

Sorta. Here's the listing


So you can't drastically resize clothing. Remember, magic cannot create things.

We are going to go with that spell, but it will be called Naga fashion.... increase the drain, and since that spell does not add materials the caster must have the amount of materials on hand.

My question is, how much more material should be at hand, thinking about the 30+' of the naga makes me think 4-6 sets of of the style of clothing. Also should i be able to use this spell on armor, and what types?

Well, yeah, you still need to buy something roughly naga sized. Fortunately, shadowrun has rules for buying/making stuff in Metahuman Adjustment and Sapient Critter size.

edit: augh double post

I naga can't shapechange into metahumans, how about changing into some sort of non-human primate? In their native environment, they would see a lot of orangotangs (who probably have about the same body as human), and might use that shape for rapid movement / tool use.

I thought of that, and the types are Chimpanzee, Orangutan, baboon, and Gorilla that my Body of 5 will work with. but i also want a type of animal that can walk around the streets and not draw much attention.

Edit: after looking at the pet list in Running wild i saw that you can have a Ostrich without needing a license lol

"Son, you got a license for that ostrich?"

In real life my wife is from Australia, and we are having a laugh over seeing one wandering around downtown. Because against common belief it is about as often as we see deer here in downtown Seattle, and they see Kangaroo in downtown Melbourne. But there are grazing areas near downtown (about 20 min outside or like about Kent or so for Seattle) which is next to her dads house cheers fellow runners and have a great night!

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/2350/hitmonkey.jpg




-karma

The common work-around is using (Critter) Form. Look at the description for that one. Basically, you'd need (Elf) Form, (Ork) Form, or the like.

Thank you for the response, if i had done some digging i would have found the answer on Catalyst shadowrun sight under frequently asked questions:

Can you take Human Form as a version of the (Critter) Form spell? What about Troll Form?

Yes, since humans are, strictly speaking, non-paranormal animals. Metahumans and metavariants are paranormal, so Troll Form, Nartaki Form, etc. are not viable versions of the (Critter) Form spell.

That is awesome for my Naga, and is nice to have a source if GM has any questions.

I guess it'd be a bad thing for your GM to suddenly drop you into an area with high mana static, then, huh?



Bad, but potentially hilarious.





-karma

I haven't seen that. That's interesting, and one of the points I made a year+ ago. But what's more interesting is that Dragons are allowed to take any form with magic, and I'm not talking about the Metahuman Form Power.

lol, little hallway....it would seem as if the GM read this post before gaming....though maybe it was a counterspell but regardless. 30' naga + the rest of the party= smaller guys be jaunted off to other rooms to face little surprises courtesy of Az. tech.

A great thing is that an injured naga still had guard ability which means no glitches for his fellow runners within LOS.

Edit: yeah, i am glad to have found that. If only we could settle the issue of melee weapon focus with our Adept we would be happy campers! But I found some posts way back in early 4ED that are from the powers to be that they do not get to have the melee form of the Focus...but nothing new has been added from the actual rules team that i have seen!

What's this?

it may take me a min. to find it again. I should have it posted in about 1-3 hours.





these are fromfrom 2006: "What good are weapon focus" though it does not stat that they are not allowed it gives the impresion that it is only melle weapons. First one is from frankTrollman, second from Ancient history



Also 2006 from: Foci bonding costs, Any errata?. Once again it does not say no unarmed power focus, but it does point to that they are melee weapons only.

These are just three and 4 years ago, they do not sya it cannot be done. But it gives me the impression that weapon focus deals with a "weapon" and thus goes away from unarmed.....the only piece of equipment that i have seen that could apply is the Hardliner gloves from Arsenal.

Our GM and all the players agree that this would be a form of mini max which takes away from our game. So we will stick to it not being a unarmed bonus till we get word from a official source

I think the FAQ has some stuff about Weapon Foci, but its not official ironclad errata.

There is stuff about weapon Foci, but nothing about unarmed and weapon focus. It does kill the idea that the Tiger shapeshifter takes a delta bio tattoo of a Tiger that covers his whole body. And enchant the dye to work as one large weapon focus. We thought it would be cool; it would be a 3D style art, and would cover his entire body, with its claws tapering out to his feet and hands. When he changes most of it would be under his fur, but around his head it would take a scary effect of seeing a blurred double image of the tiger as it Om noms on your body!

Wait, what's the question? A weapon focus must be a *weapon* (including various improvised weapons). Done. Anything else is a house rule, which, as always, is perfectly fine if that's what your group wants to play.

note that there are also weapons that use the unarmed skill, which could be enchanted as a weapon focus.