Limitations: 4 characters, 400bp. no In-Debt quality. Any SR4 books. If you have 5 characters it just gets too easy to fill all the roles.

I'm going to start working on this now. I'll post the builds I come up with. I'm more interested in seeing the builds you guys come up with. I think i'm pretty ok at character building, but I think it's one of those "I'm the best basketball player in my neighborhood" scenarios. I'm sure you guys will blow me away.

Anyone interested in participating?

Meh, easy:
Three mages, same tradition. Two specialized in combat and support, one in illusion and mindcontrol (He may be the face too)
And one technomancer specialized in spoofing and exploiting.

But i know what you mean and want. I think one could just search these forums for some gamebreaking characters and pool them up for this.

The pornomancer why use a team when I can seduce random people on the street to do what I want.

Interesting idea. I think that's valid. Sure, it would never happen if 4 different people made the characters, but that's not the point.

It doesn't work that way. You only give them the hots for the pornomancer. That doesn't mean they lose the ability to think or stop caring about their other obligations in life. You might get a married CEO to start an affair, but that doesn't you can get him to leave his wife or compromise security.

1. Covert Ops Specialist (can be an adept)
2. Street Samurai (can be an adept)
3. Hacker/Rigger (can be a technomancer)
4. Magician

No face?

With only 4 people the Face would be the first I would expect to go. In the case you quoted I'm sure that between the Covert Ops, a few points from the Sam, and the mage they'll have it covered some how.

Well, I would Have thought it would be more people doubling up on jobs.
Its not like the coverts ops and the Sam are going to pool their dice to get a halfway decent social pool. Though that does paint te mental image of TV twins finishing each others sentences..

My team would be composed of the following:

1. Street Sam with enough Social Skills to double as the face
2. Phys Ad Covert Ops specialist with enough skill to double as a hacker (not too hard to do)
3. Technomancer Rigger with enough Social skills to back up the Street Sam
4. Mage (with Cyber/Bioware to help him keep up with the others)

I like this one so far, te cross training while still covering all the bases is what I expected to see here. Can you give a little general detail as to the things you would do to make the cross skills work? Like your opinion of how to get the covert ops to double as te hacker? (Cyber/Bio)ware, skills, qualities or whatever you had in mind?

Now to get builds to show how it's viable from those who love gening characters for fun.

Unholy trinity plus face would work. AI/TM, freesprit/mage, Adept/sam(the meat B&E expert) + face likely a mystic adpet elf; to fill the lack of spirits the trinity has if you use a free sprit witch you should so versatile if used well/right. It's not 100% lacks real rigging power and stand up power in a fight though thats plartly a size issue. Makes up for it in versatility, stealth and teamwork.

I'd say with four guy the face and hacker are the key members a small team wants to be light, quick and stealth not run in with LMGs blazing If they have to fight its on their own terms or while runing the fuck away and that what a pysical barrier spell is for.

OK: A Human Leader/Infiltrator that can pull off almost any disguise, but is addicted to "The Jazz". An Elf Face-man with a taste for the finer things in life. A Troll Technomancer-Rigger and Mechanic. And a Human Pilot that the rest of the team has to break out of a mental institution anytime they have a 'Run, because that's his "Lifestyle".

The A team was awful.

The A-Team was EXCELLENT!

Oh, wait, you're probably talking about the movie. Yeah, I heard that.

Uncouth Troll Sam (with copious amounts of unreliable cyberware)
Uncouth Troll Adept (redneck-y mobility based daredevil)
Uncouth Troll Mage (with speech impediment)
Overly Articulate Troll Face (with OCD and London accent)

we covered a pretty good team with just 3 guys: dwarf Rigger/Sam for driving, scouting, shooting + human TM/Face for talking, hacking + Troll-Mage for casting, summoning, punching.
the lack of an infiltrator could be compensated by high lvl concealment most of the time. and all those guards that were trained in "geek the mage first" had a really bad time

I quite enjoyed it. Very clever in a lot of ways, like explaining B.A.'s fear of aircraft being due to his first flight with Murdock. Big, complex plans on all sides. Lots of fun for me personally.


To take it in a different direction, what about the Leverage team? You've got a five man team: Combat specialist, Tech specialist, Insertion expert, and the dedicated con artist. Ford is billed as the Mastermind, which is less a character class and more a player requirement. You could make him the team's Fixer if you want to put it in those terms.

The reason I like the Leverage team as an example of a good Shadowrun team is that they have skills outside of their specialty. The thief is taking fighting lessons from the Hitter, and the Hacker can run a con when the need arises. The combat guy can pass as a construction worker one day and a billionaire the next. Any member of the team can pickpocket IDs or cellphones from the target. It gives them the tactical flexibility to use team members in a variety of roles, and the plan doesn't fall apart because the wrong guy is in the dining room when the target shows up.

Pixie Runners all magic 6

Support Mage (Useful spells like levitate etc)
Combat Adept (Monowhip with 20D6 attack and invisible)
Hacker Adept (Backpack with commlink)
Combat Mage (Powerbolt, spiritbolt etc)

All in full second skin line ruthenium armor with shock frills.
All armed with Hand crossbows with injection bolt (neurostun), Stick And Shock Bolts and ex-Explosive bolts

One guy. 200 BP in contacts.

Correction, one guy. 200 BP in Shadowrun Team Contacts.

Building a whole team in one go is a chance to build some of those "specialty" characters you otherwise wouldn't really get a chance to fully use. Like a team focused on maritime matters, where the sams all have mods to swim like sharms and such.

1. Technomancer (Matrix specialist/Rigger)
2. Possession tradition Mystic Adept (Sam)
3. Support Mage (Face)
4. Combat Mage

That's the ideal team, IMO. You're unhindered by most scanners, but still packing serious firepower when the shit hits the fan. Background count hurts, but you're still effective in those scenarios.

A free spirit with a few of the spirit pacts could be very useful in the long run but for it to pay off the party needs to atleast eventualy take the spirit pact quality at a ratting equal to the free spirits edge. Edge gives power point used to buy spirit powers and types of pacts.

If the spirit were on an all game team like the pixi one above then the spirit could take the pact that lets the spirit aid in drain.

It is unclear what other role they could fill at chargen with400bp.

Why does everyone keep listing a Combat Mage and a Support Mage? There is absolutely no reason to make this distinction, one Mage can perform both roles. It would be like a separate Hacker and Rigger, it's just not necessary when one guy can be Hacker/Rigger. Oh and if his tradition is Charisma based he can be the Face, too.

- Summoning Focused Shaman. Bear Shaman to help with drain (who needs a sammy when you have unlimited earth spirits tossing out 12+ damage with their punches). Will double as secondary face because of the CHA.
- Mage. LOG and WILL focused. Can double as secondary hacker. Can be a primary face.
- Mage. LOG and WILL focused. Can double as secondary hacker. Can be a primary face.
- Technomancer. Doubles as secondary face.

I can see a big distinction: the combat mage can be from a Possession tradition, ideally based on Intuition (go Hedge witchcraft, the most badass tradition ever ) to handle the front line while the support mage will be from a materialization tradition.

Bio & Cybered Astral Hazing Fomori Troll (counter mages and spirits, uses Astral Hazing to provide a hard datum for team Awakened to operate in Background Count higher than 4)
Were-eagle Aztec mage (charisma based, may face)
Pixie Druidic mystic adept (intuition based, adept boosts in Perception/Astral Perception to ensures nothing surprises the team)
Human Dronomancer with E-Dog and feral AI pets (data control and manipulation, drone support)

I completely dislike the all mage teams. Even with the team I suggested I only had one full mage and one adept. I mean let's face it, even with the disproportionate amount of mages in a shadowrunner team they should NOT be in every position. In every Shadowrun book I've read, the Sammy was the Face. He was a cool collected slot who cool as ice, and deadlier than anything else on the street. He portrayed professionalism and class.

It is also possible to shut down an all mage team with FAB III. An all mage team will have problems with background count and

I also dislike Possession traditions because you get something for nothing. GM's should REALLY enforce the notion that the possessing Spirit might not like the agenda of the mage in question... or the Spirit believes that he has a "better" plan.

Agreed. However, a team where 75% of the members can do anything is the most optimal.

It's a question of optimization, not about fluff. Sure, mages are rare. This does not change the fact, however, that they're strong and versatile. And most Megacorps can field all-mage teams.

FAB: Can be countered by taking Masking. Which every mage worth his salt should have.
Possession: Choose the most badass tradition ever: Psionics (from the SR4A Street Magic). It's intuition based, and the spirits are constructs formed from your own mind, so no "disagree with mage's agenda" shenanigans.

Why exactly is Intuition such a nice drain stat? I was under the impression that Charisma was the most easy to get really high, or Logic with Cerebral Boosters.

Good try, but we can do better than that....

One Free Spirit, one Mystic Adept(caster biased), and a Mage. All same tradition.
The free spirit has metaplanar access, 24/7 uptime, and can appear anywhere in the world. Also a mage. It can handle the sammy role just fine. Sure, force6 costs 305BP, but ITnW 12 gives it good staying power.
The mystic adept can be just as casty as a mage with a high rating power focus, while doubling as a face(improved skill, kinesics,etc) or hacker.(mostly improved skill, analyze device).
The last mage is going to be the one that has the most points free, and so should specalize for the more expensive of the mage rolls left.

One person probably needs Trust Fund, just for the team's safehouse with Aspected Domain.
The last guy might just be a born rich/max cash/black markets contact gear bitch for the rest of the team. Maybe a mechanic/rigger - they need a wheelman, or possibly another mystic adept. Maybe even a cyborg. 3 mages can pretty much hold the fort down, though.

The big question is: Which tradition?

Few races have penalties to intuition, whereas Charisma and Logic are usually reserved for humans and elves. It adds to initiative and perception checks, which are nice to have for pure combat characters.

"What's the best Shadowteam ever?" "The one that shows up when the drek hits the fan, and can get the job done."

That's your optimal team.

Intuition isn't great in terms of high value. Its near impossible to get as high as the others. There just aren't things that add to the augmented value.
You can a raise your cap by 1 via Genetic Optimization(which is a solid buy at 0.1essence, if you're already getting ware, such as trauma damper, platelet factory, cybereyes, pain editor, or a cyberhand with a nanohive).
You can surge for another +1 to the min/max.
Or waste a fuckton of points on it via exceptional attribute.
Aannnd that's about it. There's a few drugs which add to intuition (betameth, psyche, Trance), but those tend to be bad for mages long-term.

What maxing out on intuition DOES do is give you a really high Initiative, Assensing, Perception. Its also used for Blind Firing a gun, so a high int Int/low agi(8v2 a least) mage may be better off just closing their eyes and firing willy-nilly blind at stuff. And those are good things any runner should have, not just mages.

Where are the rules for Blind Firing?

Edit: Found it.

A lot of people are doing all magic teams because it is easy to get synergy. 
As for background count they could be screwed over at some point but they would 
try to stick away from missions that will end up in a -10 background count.

Alternately you could go with an all rigger/hacker, face/hacker, tecknomancer, AI
And just do primarily matrix jobs. If you were all on the same page when it come
s to the hacking it would solve that problem of one person hacking wile the rest
 
do something else. 

A primarily matrix campaign could be fun in theory. 
It would force the dm to really give attention to detail to the digital world. 
But I could see it getting dulll too.
   

In the usual section for shooting people.

Isn't there a metamagic that lets a mage negate some, if not all, of the penalties from background count?

True, but I think projecting mages still take damage but maybe it only counts modified background count for that. I don't feel like looking it up and don't have an opinion one way or another which way it should be.

Also I had another thought an all magic team could really get into exploring the metaplanes. Sort of like planescape shadowrun edition.

Dryad combat shaman: Main face and a decant support in combat
Dryad technoshaman: Secondary face and the teams hacker
Fomori cyber tank: The teams main combotant

And the fourth guy/gal can be pretty much anythink as all the main functions are covered.

You know that Shadowrun has gone down a bad road when an all Mage team can be considered optimal and accomplish all objectives.

You really want someone with:
Medicine, Cybertechology skill, First Aid, and Healing Spells

Why? A mage can summon high Force combat spirits until combat is over. If anti-magic defense is in place the technomancer (or heck, even a mystic-adept with rigging skills) can send in some drones.




Turn one of the 3 mages into a mystic adept. It only needs 1 or two points towards mage magic for the healing spells, the rest can boost skills for First Aid, Medicine, and Cybertechnology.

Becouse i wanted more then 2 members for the team and thought that 2 petite girls might want someone big and scary looking with them when moving in the worse parts of town

You can make an all Sammy team that's "optimal" and accomplishes all objectives, too. People just apparently really feel the need to work in OP Possession bullshit, etc.



Or your materialization tradition "support" mage can throw around a few high powered stunballs and be just as effective at combat as the obscene stats Possessed Mage.

I understand that instead of a Sammy or a Physical Adept you could just have another Mage who gets possessed into being a frontline wrecking ball, but there is absolutely no need for it. You're not even adding any real depth since there are only so many good spells and when Counterspelling it's a teamwork test beyond the first mage, which really doesn't amount to a lot of dice gained from extra mages.

It might not be the best from a pure magical point of view, but it is the most cost efficient for a combat mage. In combat, a mage uses Body, Reaction, Intuition, Willpower, and the Drain stat. If you have Intuition as your Drain stat, then you have one less stat to raise and you can spend your points on something else. That, plus Orks have no penalty to Intuition so you can take the yummy +3 Body and Low-light vision without any drawback. It's much harder to geek the mage first when he has 7 Body and the armor that comes with it.

Great, now "Geek the Mage" and "Geek the Big Ork with the Big Gun" just got combined.

THey do. Its called Filtering(and needs Cleansing first). It lets a mage make a Counterspelling test against a background count's rating, and if they're successful, then they get to ignore its penalties for a few turns.

There's also Cleansing, which can wipe out astral crap such as background counts(permanetly, too, with effort) or astral signatures.

And also Geomancy. While its long term, and doesn't reduce a background count at all, it DOES let you aspect it into a domain. It does take time, but it can be permanent. Its also one of the more hilariously abusable exploits to use with Astral Hazing.