Would it be balanced to make an "Astral Adept"?

Astral Adept
Cost: 10 BP
• Astral Adepts are a different hybrid between Magicians and Adepts.
• Astral Adepts choose whether to dedicate their individual Magic attribute points toward somatic Adept powers (gaining 1 Power point per Magic attribute point allocated) or towards Magic skills. Astral Adepts must choose a Magic class, either Spellcasting or Conjuring, the other is banned to them.
• A character must purchase this quality in order to be Astral Adept and starts with a Magic attribute of 1. This may be increased like any other attribute, up to a maximum of 6 + initiation grade (see Purchase Attributes, p. 73). A character with this quality cannot take the Adept, Magician, Mystic Adept, or Technomancer qualities.
• Unlike Adepts, Astral Adepts do have access to Astral Space, as if they had purchased the Astral Perception adept power. In addition to Perception, Astral Adepts may also Astrally Project like a full Magician.
• Though this quality is inexpensive, Gamemasters should be careful not to allow it to be abused. It should only be taken for characters that intend to explore their nature as Astral Adepts.

You've traded one of the mystic adept's major skills for the ability to project. It certainly isn't overpowered. I assume things like Enchanting etc. are still allowed her?

Easier just to spend 10 BP on Magic and take the Astral Perception power.

But then you couldn't project, which is what the OP wants.

Ah, I misread (obviously). I saw this—"Unlike adepts, astral adepts do have access to astral space, as if they had purchased the Astral Perception adept power."—and my brain derailed.

fixed it.

There used to be astral adepts in SR3 (or SR2?). I'd say, let the adapt pay 5 more BP and give him astral projection. Maybe he's just surged.

One question is astral adepts or astral *mystic* adepts (in this case, aspected ones).

No mystics for me. - On the other hand, if it's surge... maybe.

Why SURGE?

Because you don't have to create any new (magic) rules nor change the way magic generally works.

Er. No. I meant 'why SURGE?' as in 'what are you talking about?'

It's pretty clear it's written as an aspected mystic adept, since they also get to choose one of the casting groups (casting vs summoning)

Whether it's balanced or not... it would certainly be the deadliest thing in Astral Space, so I guess it depends on how much that matters in your campaign.

Making Astral Projection a SURGE power seems... unwise.

There are a few ways to get anyone into astral already. One is a drug, another is a great form guidance spirit, and the other is exceedingly rare rifts in space. Only the first one is something you could carry around with you all the time and take often. But I thought with the drug you were still not allowed to use adept powers because it would be game destabilizing. The idea being that that magic is tied to your body and not to the projecting spirit.

This would be the case but that could be OK. After all mages are king at the moment. I might bump the cost up to 15 though.

One nice trade off might be that they an only buy powers for their projecting form. Or must chose to buy for projecting or physical form. If you did that you might remove the removing summoning or spellcasting but then again you might not.

Aw, yea. Astrally Projecting Flying Megadons. The roar of their wings brings terror to the spirit world.

Mooncrow, I know what *Simon* wrote it as, but then Doc Chase suggested something different. My point was that there's some room to think about it.

Ah, I see what you were saying now.

I wasn't thinking of giving astral projection to everyone out there as a surge power. Just for people with at least 1 point of magic. - And yes, this includes shapeshifters, vampires or even people with this strange magic 1 edge for casting spells or conjuring from Streetmagic.

Astral Projection
Cost: 5 BP
Description: This SURGE power grants the ability to project into Astral Space like a magican, following the normal rules from SR4A. This power can't be taken without having at least one point of Magic Attribute.

It seems a little extreme to give such a 'magical' power as SURGE, especially so cheap. I'm not saying it's impossible, given other SURGE options, but wow.

I've conceptualized characters like this. I don't think it's over powered. I've also allowed mystic adepts in my games to take astral projection as a metamagic on initiation with a teacher, with astral perception as a prerequisite.

You don't find that overpowered? That amounts to a full magician who can also purchase adept powers.

I don't let them overcast.

It's not that cheap, considering you have to be magical active to use it. And don't forget, you'll have to take 5 BPs in negative SURGE qualities. But it might be better to change the costs to 10 BP and use up the full positive BPs of SURGE I.

Lots of things get a point of Magic just for existing, and negative SURGE qualities are so minor, that's all.

I still consider it overpowered, but YMMV.

Be that as it may... in one of the SOTA books (64, I think) there is a metamagic that allows an adept with Astral Perception to Astrally Project for (Magic) Minutes as opposed to a Mage's (Magic) Hours.

So giving it up as a metamagic isn't out of the realm of balance or reason. Given what you could get otherwise... I would think it's a fair trade. Then again, I'm not opposed to letting an adept get such a metamagic either. Nor with them spending yet another metamagic (which means another initation) to upgrade the (Magic) minutes to (Magic) hours.

A fair trade for what? I can't see that you're giving anything up. A mystic adept who can astrally project can do everything a magician can, plus buy adept powers. At worst, you have to wait a little bit longer for other metamagics like Centering and Shielding, but you're still not giving those up.

And yet you are still less powerful than the Mage with equivalent Karma...

Debatably.

You are giving up an opportunity. Each time you initiate, the cost increases. You cannot escape that. That mystic adept who can project, do everything else a mage can, and buy adept powers is spread significantly thinner than a mage or an adept is.

Thus he is weaker in a direct activity comparison (MA mage stuff vice Mage mage stuff, MA adept stuff vice Adept adept stuff). That is a fair trade.

The Mystic Adept also has lower values for Magic spent on each side. Say the Mystic Adept started with 6 Magic and split it 3/3. He will ALWAYS be 3-6 points of Magic behind an equal karma Adept or Mage. Yes, the Mystic Adept has features not available to either the Adept or the Mage, but they will be less powerful than the full native side that provides them.

When looking at metamagics, there are some that are very useful. If you don't take them early on, the cost to get them increases.

Agree with darthmord. Handeled it similar in previous editions (but actually no player ever chose that metamagic) and I think it´s more balanced then the OPs suggestion - you can still accomplish that by making a regular mystic adept with aspected negative quality and then buy the metatechniques. There is a general tendency for people to consider characters with a wide spread of skills and abilities broken. I usually disagree -unless you build characters with BP/Karma ad libitum- the generalist will lack performance in most fields, as compared to the specialist. In this case the costs are resonable, I think - except that I think that the mystic adept quality should not be cheaper then the magician quality in general.