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Gamer6432
If I add the option Optimization (Unwired pg. 115), does it add to the program's rating for tests or does it simply allow the program to function higher than the normal restrictions set by the System rating?

The situation I'm currently thinking of is adding Optimization to a rating 4 Autosoft. The system rating for the vehicle is already at 6. So if I gave the Autosoft Optimization rating 3, would it add 3 dice to tests with that Autosoft, or just be a useless add-on?
Summerstorm
First: You can only give a program half as many program option as it has rating. So for a autosoft 4 it is max 2 optimizations.

Second:It is useless. Optimization does not give extra rating. It just ADDS itself to the SYSTEM to determine what programs CAN run on it.

For example you have a System of 4 and a Programm Rating 7 with three points Optimization:
4 (System) + 3 (Optimization) = 7 , so max rating 7 for the optimized program.
Gamer6432
OK, thanks for the clarification.
Wasabi
Optimization insulates you from system degradation from the Matrix Attack: Nuke action. Its not at all worthless.
It also allows things like Encryption 6 on a rating 3 commlink.
Summerstorm
Oh, don't misinterpret me: Worthless just in this example. Optimization fucking RULES. You need optimized programs when you are running around with a comlink and hack things on the fly against Spiders hanging on their nexus with military programs.

Gamer6432
Right, for what the group will be using it for (autosofts on a vehicle with a System rating of 6), it doesn't seem like it would be worth it.
Saint Sithney
QUOTE (Wasabi @ Sep 11 2010, 11:18 PM) *
Optimization insulates you from system degradation from the Matrix Attack: Nuke action. Its not at all worthless.


Yeah, nuke is a great way to mess up a drone since it doesn't need a high level hack action like spoofing admin commands or hacking in with the privs to lock another guy out. If you're hacking on the fly to bust something up, Nuke is the goto option.

At the same time, if you Nuke a drone's system down from 6 to 3, all that Opt will do is let the drone function at full capabilities for one more IP before you crash the bejesus out of it. Worth the 300? Not too likely. But hey, depends on your cash stream I guess...
Yerameyahu
Does System reduction reduce the limit of programs running on the node? I know that Response reduction does not, but I can't recall if program ratings are also based on 'base System' instead of current. Rules reference, please. smile.gif
TheScrivener
SR4a, p 222: "System limits the rating of programs running on the device, and sets the limit on most devices for the number of programs that can be run without a Response drop."

SR4a, p 232: "The System rating of the device limits the rating of the program. A program operates at its own rating or the System of the device, whichever is lower."

UW, p 111 states Nuke attacks have "the appropriate effects on Matrix initiative, processor limits, and subscription limits." So, it looks like it will accelerate Response reduction from too many programs (processor limit) but it doesn't mention the program rating limit. RAW seems vague here.
Yerameyahu
That's what I thought. :/ Response and System degradation seem to really have very little effect, given that program rating is the really important thing. frown.gif
Hida Tsuzua
QUOTE (Summerstorm @ Sep 12 2010, 08:23 AM) *
Oh, don't misinterpret me: Worthless just in this example. Optimization fucking RULES. You need optimized programs when you are running around with a comlink and hack things on the fly against Spiders hanging on their nexus with military programs.

Can I get specifics here? The way I can see this working is if you program some crazy high programs and then use optimization so you can run them at lower system levels. So if you made a rating 12 program with optimization 6 you could run it at "full blast." However I believe this is illegal (due to rating caps) or at the very least unlikely to be allowed by the GM.

If this is not the case, how do you use optimization?
Yerameyahu
If you'd good at programming, but poor and/or bad at hardware, then you might prefer to run optimized programs, especially on things like drones. It would also make your programs more 'nuke-tolerant' *if* your GM rules that current System is the limit (instead of base System). Finally, and I'm not sure about this one, it can make your independent Agents more able to run good programs even if they're running on someone else's crappy node. smile.gif
Summerstorm
I personally think that there is some inconsistency with the program ratings. 7+ is described as the cutting edge, military stuff. But it is too easy to program and run that stuff per the rules. So yeah, a rating 12 program should easily be possible (if rare). And optimization should be included in a lot of those programs to allow for use on portable devices. (Another inconsitency: Nexus not man portable... should be, because the processing power can be replicated by comlinks... which are 0-weight items in essence).

Also very high ratings are desperatly needed to balance against technomancers. (Not the i WANT everybody to be the same in the matrix... but hackers which DEEEEP pockets should at least have one advantage).
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (Summerstorm @ Sep 13 2010, 10:51 PM) *
(Another inconsitency: Nexus not man portable... should be, because the processing power can be replicated by comlinks... which are 0-weight items in essence).


Nexi are listed as being roughly comparable to a modern day desktop computer.

I wouldn't say that was "not man portable". Not especially convenient, yes, especially in a firefight, but definitely you should be able to carry one around.

If a hacker/TM has a Nexus, is there any reason they couldn't just stash it in their car or whatever and run their hacking operations through it instead of just being limited to their commlink?



-karma
Yerameyahu
Well, sure. People do that all the time. Still, while they're 'man portable', they're not 'portable' devices. smile.gif They really aren't vastly better, though. They excel in a couple specific ways.
TheScrivener
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Sep 13 2010, 09:47 PM) *
Nexi are listed as being roughly comparable to a modern day desktop computer.

I wouldn't say that was "not man portable". Not especially convenient, yes, especially in a firefight, but definitely you should be able to carry one around.

If a hacker/TM has a Nexus, is there any reason they couldn't just stash it in their car or whatever and run their hacking operations through it instead of just being limited to their commlink?



-karma

UW p 196 says "the size of a desktop computer or larger." The picture on p. 50 shows three-meter-high monoliths looking like old 90s servers. I'd say that anything from a Retail Hub nexus on up would probably not even be installable in a vehicle. One of the two cheaper nexi I'd allow to be vehicle carried, but dependent on the power supply. Plus the heat management would probably be intense; the vehicle would need to be stopped with the A/C going full blast to keep the thing from overheating. Even a standard modern desktop PC isn't useful without an outside power source.
Badmoodguy88
I have a friend who would run his desk top computer off the power outlet in his minivan. upsidedown.gif
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (TheScrivener @ Sep 16 2010, 03:01 AM) *
UW p 196 says "the size of a desktop computer or larger." The picture on p. 50 shows three-meter-high monoliths looking like old 90s servers. I'd say that anything from a Retail Hub nexus on up would probably not even be installable in a vehicle. One of the two cheaper nexi I'd allow to be vehicle carried, but dependent on the power supply. Plus the heat management would probably be intense; the vehicle would need to be stopped with the A/C going full blast to keep the thing from overheating. Even a standard modern desktop PC isn't useful without an outside power source.


The full quote is "Most nexi are the size of a desktop computer tower or larger—too large to carry comfortably in place of a commlink, but possible to pull on a cart, load onto a drone, or carry in a vehicle."

So we know they're vehicle portable, and in fact a bit later one of the more powerful stock retail Nexi, the Evo Mobile Terminus, is specifically made to be field-usable installed in vans.

And we all know how accurate (NOT!) looking at the artwork in Shadowrun is.

Oh, and I just spotted something kinda funny.

The Evo Mobile Terminus nexus is Availability 14. Slightly difficult to get.

Unless, of course, you buy a Roving Hub medium drone (Unwired pg 198-199). Which comes with an Evo Mobile Terminus built in, at Availability 6.



-karma
Yerameyahu
Honestly, you could carry a desktop computer on your back, *un*-comfortably. Presumably, nexi need a real power source, instead of the fairy dust that runs commlinks. smile.gif That's just fluff, though. Otherwise, the 'better' the nexus, the bigger.
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