Psh. Cheater.

Who are you calling a cheater?

Overmodification is subject to gamemaster's approval but not forbidden.

I know, but so is having passers-by give you money. I'm just kidding you, it's not like you *need* Ammo Skip or Elec. Firing in the first place. The main idea is a BF revolver, and we all agree that's doable.

I think you were meant. Go and get him..^^

You don't need Ammo Skip at all according to RAWs but to me it makes perfectly sense. If you want BF on a SA six-gun you need some form of motor for spinning the drum. And with Electronic Firing you don't need another one for moving the hammer as you don't need the hammer at all. In fact Ammo Skip and Electronic Firing should give a discount for the BF mod or come along with it for free.

Haha, careful: logic is a dangerous road. You could also say that you should be required to have Ammo Skip and Electronic Firing before the BF mod is even allowed.

Incidentally, if it can fire long bursts (6), then it's FA, not BF. Same price, so no matter. We were just talking about this, so I mention it.

Can't you still Short burst with 2 bullets?

You can fire a special 'crap I ran out of ammo' burst, yes. You just use the normal rules for +N bullets. By RAW, this only works for 2, 4, and 5; the Full Burst section is mysteriously missing the 'Not Enough Bullets' paragraph. The obvious 'common sense' rule is to also allow bursts of 7, 8, and 9 (as always, only when the ammo remaining is insufficient). If your weapon doesn't have an ammo capacity of at least 10 rounds, I think the RAW says that you're limited to long bursts (6), but you could also allow (house rule) 'full clip' bursts of 7, 8, or 9.

The Mateba auto-revolver gets by just fine with the recoil energy to advance each round. It would not take THAT much work to make it full auto.



-karma

Touché.



Long burst are FA? - Damn, right! My mistake. Have to change the description of the Mega Warhawk.



There's still a first bullet and my Mega Warhawk has no trigger. - Wait! Electronic Firng! That's it. - Okay, fine. One could dump the Ammo Skip System.

If you make a revolver FA you get a minigun.

That would be a problem - if you had to advance the first round in order to chamber it and make the pistol ready.

Oh, wait, look, revolvers don't have that problem.






Well, it'd look like one, anyhow, even if the mechanics are different.



-karma

Trigger removal just means it fires via command; even with electronic firing, there's no reason the first bullet is a problem.

I think he was referring to having to chamber the first round in regular semi-autos.

For revolvers, even automatic ones, this isn't a problem because all the rounds are chambered by default.



-karma

I'm just pointing at the trigger removal (no effect on firing mechanism) and electronic firing (no effect on trigger) have nothing to do with anything.

Damn, I had a little problem with editing the post. The point is: You have to clock the hammer or you can't fire a revolver (in fact any gun at all). Without a trigger you can still do it with your thump if it's a revolver but you can't release the hammer for the first shot. - Unless it's a smartgun. And if you have Electronic Firing you don't need a hammer at all.

Okay, now you have a BF revolver without a trigger and hammer. The first round is fired electronically via smartlink and the recoil spins the drum. - No need for the Armo Skipp System, fine. Only 6 mod slots needed.

Huzzah! Except go ahead and make it FA, so you can fire all six when 'needed'. This weapon is hilarious.

Wouldn't a burst fire mode on a 6 shooter mean you're out of ammo after 2 'shots?' Great if you hit but it seems very risky.

Just carry a bunch of them and quick-draw new ones every action phase.

Making them full auto and holding one in each hand means two long bursts each action phase which are more powerful than assault rifles (but with shorter range). Recoil is a problem of course but one could counteract a bit with gyro-stabilization (in cyberhands) and/or a high strength (if the optional rule is used). And it would be pretty bad-ass to fire 6-shot bursts from revolvers.

That's the drawback of DV 8, AP -2.

Wow, I never even thought about dual-wielding 2 BF revolvers... I must say I like the idea. My original intent was to have a a variation of the gun adept from the book. 2 Colt Manhunters with all the little tricks as the main weapons and a BurstFire revolver as the "oh-crap" weapon when facing off against some heavily armored Arnie-Awesome cybered troll.

Like Lassiter in Riders of the Purple Sage?

RL I owned a Mataba Uniqua, a wonderful semiauto revolver- yeah the sort of gun Togasa used in Ghost in the Shell. The plus side is that is was the most accurate handgun I've ever used and had no appreciable recoil, the mechanism.

The down side it was frakking huge. The guys at the range called it the "Italian monster." It would be hard to conceal. I couldn't see carrying it concealed ever and I have gotten away with a .357 magnum with a 4 inch barrel in a hip hiolster under a long coat. the other problem with them is they had a lot of moving parts. Sure any semi auto will but the revolver adds a whole other set of mechanics instead of just a spring in the mag. Any grit in the weapon would lead to a misfire and jams and this included the stuff it was throwing out itself. I would also get hands that were BLACK from the powder spraying. this is why the Fosberry never really caught on in WW1 when the colt semi did.

So it is big and accurate but finiky. DLN's husband likened it to an expensive mistress. Wonderful to have but frustrating. We both want to know what he is using as a base for that.

I like that Hatamoto weapon that fires that 1 shot shotgun round. Maybe I should use that as my take-down weapon. I still like the idea of a burstfire heavy revolver.

See, I really dislike that Hatamoto one. Maybe it's just the hideous concept art, or maybe I just can't deal with a single-shot firearm that's not a rocket launcher, but it seems so under-designed. Hell, they could at the very least give it two barrels (like the PJSS). It's not even very cheap!

Hmm. A giant *two* shot 'pistol' might be neat. Granted, that's effectively what the BF-revolver is, but there's a difference in terms of style.

Yeah... whoever drew it did make it look like crap. Plus, I agree that if I was going to have some kind of uber-last ditch weapon that had limited ammo, but each shot was a kicker, I should get some kind of double barrel derringer or something that's has 2 mini-missiles or rockets or something. Something that would make the weapon worthwhile to shoot even if it only had 1 - 2 shots.

Hence why I thought of the idea for the burstfire revolver. I'd get 1 or 2 shots off of it, but each 1 would be a tremendous hit and knockdown whatever was charging at me.

Indeed. Very stylish. The burst-revolver is nice because you can choose between 3 and 6; the PJSS 2-barrel elephant rifle lets you do the same thing, though. Maybe I'll make an NPC with a distinctive 'double Hatamoto' pistol just for kicks. Players like seeing new things for once.

I does make for an awesome stealth weapon with called shot for +4 and twinked for silence. But for every one else to make it worth while you need to buy additional "clip" for it. Extened clip can also be used by raw though some posters emphasise the fact it has clip in the name to say neither can be used on anything bar © weapons. With both in stalled you get 2 shots due to the percentage increase and decrease rounding up. To really make use of that though you need to also add firing mode selection this takes up 4 or you mod slots and gets you a quite decent if pricey take down gun it costs so much that not loading it with ex or ex seams wasteful in my eyes.
The total cost is 2400+how ever you install your smart-link either 200 for an attachment or an extra 800 for having the base gun have one inbuilt from the start. With the remaining 2 slots electronic firing would get rid off recoil with out taking time to pull the stock out allowing you to quick draw and shoot shot once more and flip to barrel 2 in one phase with no penalty. It also let you explane why you are firing two rounds from each barrel.

So for the most twinked Hatamoto for a gunslinger. Would be a 7p DV, -1 AP, SA, 1 RC, 2*2(m), costing 4200 and with a smartlink. You can't fit any more into it but you still have room for all the external attachments aswell. Its pricy but it might be worth it.

I wonder why nobody ever build a semi-auto gun that packs revolver slugs. Gamebalancing?


Israel Military Industries Sand Hawk

This heir of the famous Desert Eagle earned the titel of the heaviest semi-automatic pistol in the world and is in fact loaded with ammo otherwise found only in revolvers.

Stats

DV: 6
AP: -2
Mode: SA
RC: -
Ammo: 8 ( c )
Cost: 1.000


Okay, that's some kind of potential game-breaker and shows the limitations of SR4 comabt rules.

Why is it a game breaker?

*shrug*

It does more damage than all other semi automatics, can fire two shots per action phase, and has greater ammo capacity and in a detachable magazine than the Warhawk.
I'd have no problem with it, though I'd probably double uncompensated recoil, just to simulate how heavy the round is. I know that coming up with 1 RC isn't difficult.

I find it weirder that a frigging handheld shotgun loaded with slugs does the same damage as a regular heavy pistol.

No, it doesn't. It does 7/-1, the same as a shotgun.

Oh, unless you mean the Roomsweeper. AFAIK, the Roomsweeper uses a normal Heavy Pistol 'caliber'; they're not 'shotgun-sized' slugs/shells. It simply has the ability to use Flechette.

My SR4A says 5P -1 for slugs and 7P(f) +5 for shot. Has it been changed?

Right, what's the problem? 5+2=7.

I'm still assuming you meant the Roomsweeper. Your question makes a little more sense for the Defiance sawed-off shotgun, because it goes from 7P to 5P with the same bullets; still, we know that caliber/charge aren't the only variables, and the sawed-off barrel indeed reduces power. Now, explain how the Hatamoto gets 7P/-1 out of a pistol-sized barrel, while the Defiance *doesn't*.

Magic. In this case the Magic of Marketing!

If your character needs something bigger and a more satisfying try a penal implant and sensitive skin. If you want cool go for a superblack hawk.

I find it hard to believe that a 18.5 mm ball of metal (12 gauge slug) does the same damage as a 10-12 mm (assumed calibers for heavy pistols) ball.


Yes, I am talking about the roomsweeper. The sawed off defiance is just as weird, and too large with too little ammo on top.

@Triggvi: But it is penile implant. A penal would probably be a lot less pleasant. I'm thinking about cranial bombs and stuff.

lmao. bad mistype

Where do you get idea that roomsweeper uses 12 gauge slug like a full shotgun does, i find it shooting something like 16 gauge round to be much more likely.

Because 12 gauge is readily available. The other gauges aren't as much in demand.

On top of that, the Defiance is just sawed off, I doubt the chamber and barrel were exchanged to create the short version.

According to wikipedia even a 16 gauge still has a diameter of 16.8 mm.

Dakka Dakka, I still doesn't understand your point. :/ Flechette gives +2 DV, +5 Impact. If you start with a Heavy Pistol like the Roomsweeper, that's 5+2=7. If you start with a shotgun that's 7+2=9. They're obviously different, as they should be. What are you concerned about?

I'm always looking at the values for firing slugs.

The roomsweeper actually isn't necessarily that weird, it could indeed be a weapon that normally uses shot but has a much smaller bore than normal shotguns.
The sawed off T-250 however should fire the same ammunition as other shotguns from a shorter barrel. This will reduce range and possibly damage potentional of slugs, but I doubt this reduction will be so large that the weapon becomes identical to or even worse than a heavy pistol, depending on the reading of the rules.

Hatamoto is not shot. its a slug that does 7p Damage. The defiance shotgun is a slug that does 5P damage. so somehow you have a single shot apparently 12 gauge shotgun pistol that does 7P and a 12 gauge shotgun sawn down to (larger than pistol) size that does 5P... Thats an issue with me. Even if it is completely off topic.

Okay, hold up:

Hatamoto: fires a shotgun-class slug; 7P/-1 (=normal slug shotguns).
Roomsweeper: fires heavy pistol slugs, available with Flechette; 5P/-1, or +2 DV/+5 AP for 7P/+5 (no, I dunno where the original -1 goes).
Defiance (full size): shotgun, fires slugs by default; 7P/-1.
Defiance (sawed): as heavy pistol, fires slugs by default; 5P/-1, heavy pistol ranges.

So, once again, huh? The Roomsweeper is a totally normal Heavy Pistol. The Hatamoto is a unique case. The Defiance (full) is a totally normal shotgun. The Defiance (sawed) is a unique case (which gets screwed). I'm the one who brought up the Defiance, so I thought you were talking about the Roomsweeper (which is why I specifically asked).

Which is why I'll take a full-length Defiance T-250, modify it for a Folding Shoulder Brace (In fact, I'll take the one from the SPAS-22) and Shorter Barrel. Call it a day.

yeah especially when you want to disintergrate small critters and birds. 00 also gets some use

Indeed, CanRay. The kicker is that the Defiance is *from* Arsenal, facrissake. It has the 'sawed-off' mod right there in the book! :/

Mechanically yes, but then I ask why would you buy it? You can get 16 shots in a detachable magazine for 50¥ more and you get a laser sight as extra. Moreover nowhere in the book does it say that shotgun shells are not the same as flechette rounds. So by RAW shotgun shells are just as expensive as flechette. I know I sell shells for the price of regular ammo.
I totally agree. I just think the roomsweeper got screwed as well.

*shrug* It's just a pistol that's marketed specifically as able to use Flechette. Shot rounds *are* flechette (with the possibility for variation in style), yes. There are always sub-optimal choices in the list. Honestly, there are only about 2 guns per category that should *ever* be used.

Why should the Roomsweeper get special treatment? I don't understand how it 'got screwed', is all. I mean, you could rule that guns not designed for flechette can't use it, to preserve its uniqueness.