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SleepIncarnate
Ok, so I've been reading through a bunch of old comics (Gen 13 and Witchblade, if you're curious) in between working on work stuff, Shadowrun stuff, school stuff, etc and it started bleeding together and I had the thought about making SR4 characters based on some of these comic characters. Some are easy, some not so much. Jackie Estacado, The Darkness, is obviously a combat mage (though which trad I'm not so sure just yet, prolly black magic) with a lot of skill in summoning. The Angelus is a free possession spirit, probably formerly a fire spirit. Ian Nottingham is an adept or sammy. The one that's really throwing me is Sara Pezzini, the bearer of the Witchblade. Sure, most of her stuff could be explained away as implants or adept abilities, but not all. I want to say mystic adept (since she's both a physical fighter and able to throw fireballs or make swords out of flames), but that still leaves a few questions. The big one is how to have a character with a literal sword (or at least long knife) that can appear and disappear out of her arm at the wrist. I thought about implants, but there's nothing that big I can find I thought maybe a metagenetic quality with like bone spurs or something, but again nothing. The closest thing I can find is the forearm snap-blades from SR4A.

Any ideas on how to make this character? How about converting some of your other favorite characters? Some are obviously going to be impossible, such as fliers, those with too much strength or invulnerability (though I could totally see the Hulk as a hornless troll, and She-Hulk as an ork)
CanRay
Well, I had an LA P2.0 Shadowrunner NPC that broadcast his 'Runs while wearing a Batman outfit...
Method
Ha! My friend once played a physad with latent awakening. Worked as a daredevil and his powers activated after a nasty crash and blow to the head. After that he thought he was a super hero- Captain Justice. Much hilarity ensued.

Anyway, the Witchblade could be a custom spell based on the Shape spell or something similar. I could have swore there was a similar spell somewhere, but I can't find it, so I guess I'm misremembering. Alternately you could say its some kind of bound spirit with Materialization and Natural Weapon powers.
SleepIncarnate
That's an idea, make it a unique weapon focus with a spirit bound into it, that once put on can't be removed.
Neraph
A thematically shaped Elemental Aura spell.

Or, check out my thread on free/ally spirits for ideas about Inhabiting a weapon focus.
CanRay
Actually, for the Corporate that finally snaps, there's always the two greats: Captain Capitalism and Commander Cash!
Branmac
Captain Hammer! Corporate tool!
Dumori
QUOTE (SleepIncarnate @ Oct 2 2010, 03:42 PM) *
Ok, so I've been reading through a bunch of old comics (Gen 13 and Witchblade, if you're curious) in between working on work stuff, Shadowrun stuff, school stuff, etc and it started bleeding together and I had the thought about making SR4 characters based on some of these comic characters. Some are easy, some not so much. Jackie Estacado, The Darkness, is obviously a combat mage (though which trad I'm not so sure just yet, prolly black magic) with a lot of skill in summoning. The Angelus is a free possession spirit, probably formerly a fire spirit. Ian Nottingham is an adept or sammy. The one that's really throwing me is Sara Pezzini, the bearer of the Witchblade. Sure, most of her stuff could be explained away as implants or adept abilities, but not all. I want to say mystic adept (since she's both a physical fighter and able to throw fireballs or make swords out of flames), but that still leaves a few questions. The big one is how to have a character with a literal sword (or at least long knife) that can appear and disappear out of her arm at the wrist. I thought about implants, but there's nothing that big I can find I thought maybe a metagenetic quality with like bone spurs or something, but again nothing. The closest thing I can find is the forearm snap-blades from SR4A.

Any ideas on how to make this character? How about converting some of your other favorite characters? Some are obviously going to be impossible, such as fliers, those with too much strength or invulnerability (though I could totally see the Hulk as a hornless troll, and She-Hulk as an ork)

I'm not sure Jackie Estacado is more too PCs as is the Angelus one the host the other the sprit. This is close to the fluff and how he acts at times. The Darkness has taken full control at times but normaly Jackie is in control. Tardition wise could well be unique and his mentor spirts is likely the darkness too. I'm not as 100% on Angelus but the same should apply there. The possessing darkness is obvs only a fraction of the darkness' full power. This is as close as you can get by RAW. Unless your GM lets you take the darkness as an allyspit with possesion as self inhabiation wouldn't work.

Been a while from my last read though. So running close the the 360 game but IIRC it was quite close to the comic powers wise ect.
Udoshi
QUOTE (Method @ Oct 2 2010, 09:22 AM) *
I could have swore there was a similar spell somewhere, but I can't find it, so I guess I'm misremembering. A


Digital Grimoire has a sample Unique Enchantment, a sword weapon foci that has some special properties. Its major benefit is that it has a high rating, and automatically bonds to anyone who touches it. Its also always astrally active, which means a regular dude can pick it up and stab spirits with it. It also contributes to focus addiction, which sucks for mundanes, who have no magic.(the at-risk of foci addiction calculations are based on magic. I think.)

Perhaps that what you were thinking of?
KarmaInferno
Freakazoid! Go!





-k
The Jopp
DOOMSDAY
Fomori Troll
Changeling III (Dermal Deposits, Granite Skin, Thorns, Astral Hazing, Bone Spikes
Titanium Bonelacing
Bone Density IV
Orthoskin III
Reg06
Make Doomsday an adept instead, because it needs cosmic levels of punching capability in order to drop Superman (the adept build can get 20-30DV punches, easily. And then it can keep going).
sgtbarnes_ky
The Witchblade is more of a weapon/power focus, freespirit, as it is alive and semi sentient. Realistically though its more of an iten then a set of powers so i would great it as either a focus or a focus with say a spirit of man bound to it. For all the X-men fans I'd say go with the Wolverine/X-23 builds, adepts with Bonelacing/cyber spurs, tith pints in killing hand/critical stick. Adepts are good for superheros, ans bioware/cberware tends to make for good ole' fashion super soldiers. Just take everything witha grain of salt though as Comics and Shadowrun are really seperate genres unles you count like have of Wildstorms line, Wetworks, Cyberforce, Stormwatch, WildC.A.T.S, and Gen13
Dumori
Witchblade hummm. Freespirt bind to the user draina small amount of karma. Uses mutable and realistic form as well as the many funky spirtp powers to up the damage ect. Realistic from any none electronic weapon it will act as it energy aura or such adds more punch.

Doing the darkness justice needs some homebrewing due to the slight odd nature. Though it could be a hybrid inhabition spirt that only starts to unmask at the right age if inhabited form birth there are no personality/missing memorys. And masking and the form shapign powers could represtent it manfesting. ITNW is a good stand in for the shadowy sheild thing it dose natral weapon for the stuff. Only biggy is then the buidl can't summon a big part of the Darkness idea.
Saint Hallow
I'm sure someone has tried to make a SR version of Snake-Eyes from GI Joe, some crazed Samurai/Hacker form of Batman, and some crazed Phys-Ad of Spiderman.
Sixgun_Sage
QUOTE (Saint Hallow @ Oct 6 2010, 04:03 PM) *
I'm sure someone has tried to make a SR version of Snake-Eyes from GI Joe, some crazed Samurai/Hacker form of Batman, and some crazed Phys-Ad of Spiderman.



Physad for Batman, actually.
Saint Hallow
QUOTE (Sixgun_Sage @ Oct 6 2010, 05:07 PM) *
Physad for Batman, actually.


Batman is gear heavy... he's the original gadgetmaster. I would see him more of a techno-person and using all his resources to have good gear, mini-drones, and when push comes to shove... he would have either cyberware or exo-skeleton suit.
Sixgun_Sage
QUOTE (Saint Hallow @ Oct 6 2010, 04:10 PM) *
Batman is gear heavy... he's the original gadgetmaster. I would see him more of a techno-person and using all his resources to have good gear, mini-drones, and when push comes to shove... he would have either cyberware or exo-skeleton suit.



Except that even in Year 100 they state he has NO augmentations, in a setting where even the cops have a few. It's easier to see him as someone that has awakened due to the stress of pushing his limits beyond what is normally human possible. In any case you can't build him true to the comics as a starting runner.
SleepIncarnate
QUOTE (Sixgun_Sage @ Oct 6 2010, 04:13 PM) *
Except that even in Year 100 they state he has NO augmentations, in a setting where even the cops have a few. It's easier to see him as someone that has awakened due to the stress of pushing his limits beyond what is normally human possible. In any case you can't build him true to the comics as a starting runner.


Let's be honest here, the majority of comic book superheroes, even at the beginning when they first gain their powers/training/whatever, are beyond the scope of a starting runner, no matter which build you use, unless you pack on lots of extra karma/BP and make for special house rules like 1 BP=20,000 nuyen.gif
Glyph
The other thing to remember is that mundane, unaugmented characters can do things like knock down walls, rip steel bars out of a wall, deflect bullets, and similar feats that would be out of the range of most augmented shadowrun characters.
Stingray
Deadpool- merc with a Mouth..
(clearly a multiple times initiated Adept..maybe Elf..)
StealthSigma
QUOTE (Stingray @ Oct 7 2010, 09:34 AM) *
Deadpool- merc with a Mouth..
(clearly a multiple times initiated Adept..maybe Elf..)


Just make sure you take the Common Sense positive quality.

On a side note, the topic is comic characters. Superheroes not limited.

So you could probably make The Losers.
Makki
Gogo Gadget:
0.01 Essence, 8 Edge, no Skills at all.
Connections: Penny the Hacker-girl and Brain the Dog, a Realistic Form Free Spirit she befriended. And ofc Chief Quimby the Fixer with Disguise skill 6.
Neraph
QUOTE (Saint Hallow @ Oct 6 2010, 03:03 PM) *
I'm sure someone has tried to make a SR version of Snake-Eyes from GI Joe...

I've had to play with Snake-Eyes about 100 times remade. It's getting old for me.
Elfenlied
The Witchblade would be pretty easy to do. Just take a possession Guardian spirit with Elemental Attack and Natural Weapon. Remember, possession without realistic form is very visible, so the gauntlet/armor shouldn't be too hard.

Makki
Batman is of course fully cybered. After all he owns a few delta clinics within his corp - Ares Macrotechnology, formerly known as Wayne Enterprises. Still, nobody yet knows of Knight's after hour hobby...
Reg06
Batman with implants dilutes the batman flavor. He's 100% (comic human, but human none the less) and implants are for heroes like Cable and Cyborg- it's part of the flavor. If he has plasteel arms that can rip a car in half, his ingenuity, training, and genius aren't special.
Glyph
QUOTE (Makki @ Oct 9 2010, 12:54 PM) *
Batman is of course fully cybered. After all he owns a few delta clinics within his corp - Ares Macrotechnology, formerly known as Wayne Enterprises. Still, nobody yet knows of Knight's after hour hobby...

He remains obsessed with his archnemesis, the Joker... although he calls himself Harlequin now.

QUOTE (Reg06 @ Oct 9 2010, 01:35 PM) *
Batman with implants dilutes the batman flavor. He's 100% (comic human, but human none the less) and implants are for heroes like Cable and Cyborg- it's part of the flavor. If he has plasteel arms that can rip a car in half, his ingenuity, training, and genius aren't special.

Except that mundane humans flat out don't work in SR4 as physical badasses. They can be tough and cunning, but they are still like Deckard in Blade Runner, fighting against enemies that hopelessly outclass them physically. Other games can have unaugmented people duking it out with cyborgs, but Shadowrun is not geared up that way. So the only way to make a Batman who does the same kind of stuff he does in the comics, is to either make him cybered up to the max, or make him an adept.

Or you could say that Batman has every piece of bioware in the books, only for him it's all natural. In fact, what people think is bioware is actually stuff cloned from Batman's superior genes.
Dumori
QUOTE (Glyph @ Oct 9 2010, 10:17 PM) *
He remains obsessed with his archnemesis, the Joker... although he calls himself Harlequin now.


Except that mundane humans flat out don't work in SR4 as physical badasses. They can be tough and cunning, but they are still like Deckard in Blade Runner, fighting against enemies that hopelessly outclass them physically. Other games can have unaugmented people duking it out with cyborgs, but Shadowrun is not geared up that way. So the only way to make a Batman who does the same kind of stuff he does in the comics, is to either make him cybered up to the max, or make him an adept.

Or you could say that Batman has every piece of bioware in the books, only for him it's all natural. In fact, what people think is bioware is actually stuff cloned from Batman's superior genes.

I think the Batman makes for a high grade adpet. Anylitical mind increased gynastics plus some good old bio/gene treaments.
SleepIncarnate
Anyone else thinking of Azrael, the guy who stepped in as Batman after Bane broke Bruce Wayne's back (and he was supposedly dead)? He was heavily cybered. So I guess the argue over Batman being cybered or adept depends on which Batman you want.
Sixgun_Sage
QUOTE (SleepIncarnate @ Oct 9 2010, 09:22 PM) *
Anyone else thinking of Azrael, the guy who stepped in as Batman after Bane broke Bruce Wayne's back (and he was supposedly dead)? He was heavily cybered. So I guess the argue over Batman being cybered or adept depends on which Batman you want.


Purists will tell you Azrael was never Batman, but a place holder, and You are forgetting that Dick Grayson also did a stint wearing the cape and cowl.
SleepIncarnate
No I'm not, just pointing out an example of a cybered Batman. It's all up to the individual what they decide about it.
Rayzorblades
QUOTE (Saint Hallow @ Oct 6 2010, 02:10 PM) *
Batman is gear heavy... he's the original gadgetmaster. I would see him more of a techno-person and using all his resources to have good gear, mini-drones, and when push comes to shove... he would have either cyberware or exo-skeleton suit.

Mini-drones like Mr Terrific's T-Spheres which Batman did ripoff. As for his Exo-Suit, he has both an Iron-Man-esque suit of armor AND the streamlined Batsuit in Batman Beyond. Then in the 2001 miniseries from the 80s when he and Robin fight and kill a half-psychotic Superman using a kryptonite ring, they wore exo armor.

QUOTE (Sixgun_Sage @ Oct 6 2010, 02:13 PM) *
Except that even in Year 100 they state he has NO augmentations, in a setting where even the cops have a few. It's easier to see him as someone that has awakened due to the stress of pushing his limits beyond what is normally human possible. In any case you can't build him true to the comics as a starting runner.
I loved that about year 100. As to the limits of what humans are capable of at even a mundane level, well those can be pretty scary as well.

QUOTE (Glyph @ Oct 7 2010, 01:38 AM) *
The other thing to remember is that mundane, unaugmented characters can do things like knock down walls, rip steel bars out of a wall, deflect bullets, and similar feats that would be out of the range of most augmented shadowrun characters.

Well you can do some amazing things with adrenaline and biofeedback.

QUOTE (Glyph @ Oct 9 2010, 02:17 PM) *
He remains obsessed with his archnemesis, the Joker... although he calls himself Harlequin now.


Love it.

QUOTE (Glyph @ Oct 9 2010, 02:17 PM) *
Or you could say that Batman has every piece of bioware in the books, only for him it's all natural. In fact, what people think is bioware is actually stuff cloned from Batman's superior genes.


They do talk a lot about Batman having superior genes and being naturally gifted, especially in supporting literature.

From a philosophical aspect I've heard people say "Batman is a nut who'll stop at NOTHING to fight crime! That's why he'd cyber himself to the gills!", this is flawed however as while Batman is nowhere near being the poster boy for sanity, he DOES have limits he'll go to when it comes to fighting crime. He won't kill. He won't brainwash. Even though he has access to the ability to do both. He's had TONS of access to equipment to give him powers in the past and doesn't use them, opting instead for using tools and a minimalist approach. In the non-future, non-alternative worlds where he DOES have to use things like power armor, he uses them for THAT MISSION and then retires them. He really is an interesting character and one of my personal faves.
Reg06
There's a solid chance batman has the quality that increases the max for an attribute for every single attribute. 7 AGI + 9 Unarmed, plus 8 Edge when needed is pretty solid (backed up by a DV 7 unarmed strike), and he has every martial art manuever and quality he wants. That's enough to take down any normal human, any professional human, and enough to compete with superhumans given proper set and planning (e.g. he should always be attacking an unaware target).

QUOTE (Glyph @ Oct 9 2010, 10:17 PM) *
Or you could say that Batman has every piece of bioware in the books, only for him it's all natural. In fact, what people think is bioware is actually stuff cloned from Batman's superior genes.


I could buy Batman having tons of natural bioware.
SleepIncarnate
Batman is SURGEd with no obvious external changes, just improvements to all physical attributes, nocturnal, etc etc.
Reg06
But the SURGEd are inhuman.
SleepIncarnate
They can be, but they start as human, and if they still look human, then they're considered human. Kinda like the various metavarients are still human, ork, elf, etc. Batman is his own unique metavarient if you want to look at it like that.
Critias
QUOTE (SleepIncarnate @ Oct 9 2010, 09:22 PM) *
Anyone else thinking of Azrael, the guy who stepped in as Batman after Bane broke Bruce Wayne's back (and he was supposedly dead)? He was heavily cybered. So I guess the argue over Batman being cybered or adept depends on which Batman you want.

Actually, unless they retconned something later, Azrael wasn't cybered, he just had lots of goofy nonsense built into the suit (like mil-spec armor with strength enhancers, to put it halfway in SR terms). He was brainwashed by his zany Christian assassin/vigilante cult, and has all kinds of implanted memories/skills (so you could argue for some strange bio Skillwires, or something like Reflex Recorders, I guess)...but nothing surgical was done to him, in anything of it I ever read.

I mean, it doesn't really have anything to do with anything, don't get me wrong. wink.gif It doesn't change the fact that mundane, no augmentation, human types aren't terribly viable in Shadowrun, or that they're going to be capable of the stuff Batman routinely pulls off...I'm just bein' nitpicky because I've followed the Bat-Family for kind of a while.
The Jopp
I have to nerdrage and actually jump into this thread.

Batman’s best tool isn’t attributes and ware. It’s skills. He is an obsessed man that needs to be prepared for anything which means he has ALL skills in the book (except magical and resonance) at least rating 6 and an edge of 8.

Secondary to his skills is that he plans ahead. He’s the guy that has a contingency plan for anything and would most likely be able to go toe to toe against a dragon when it comes to out-thinking his opponent and have a plan for it.

After that he would most likely also have some cybernetics and bioware to give him and edge.

I mean, we are talking about a freaking obsessive ultra-rich madman that got teleported unto a flying nuclear missile and disarmed it in freaking mid-flight (Batman and Spawn).

He’s not designed to fight a cyberzombie in man-to-man combat he would have several traps and strategies for it before he met one.
Rayzorblades
QUOTE (Critias @ Oct 17 2010, 11:20 PM) *
Actually, unless they retconned something later, Azrael wasn't cybered, he just had lots of goofy nonsense built into the suit (like mil-spec armor with strength enhancers, to put it halfway in SR terms). He was brainwashed by his zany Christian assassin/vigilante cult, and has all kinds of implanted memories/skills (so you could argue for some strange bio Skillwires, or something like Reflex Recorders, I guess)...but nothing surgical was done to him, in anything of it I ever read.

I mean, it doesn't really have anything to do with anything, don't get me wrong. wink.gif It doesn't change the fact that mundane, no augmentation, human types aren't terribly viable in Shadowrun, or that they're going to be capable of the stuff Batman routinely pulls off...I'm just bein' nitpicky because I've followed the Bat-Family for kind of a while.

Azrael does have some gene tweaks, selective breeding/eugenics type stuff, and he was brought to term in the uterus of an ape. Seriously.

QUOTE (The Jopp @ Oct 18 2010, 01:30 AM) *
I have to nerdrage and actually jump into this thread.

Batman’s best tool isn’t attributes and ware. It’s skills. He is an obsessed man that needs to be prepared for anything which means he has ALL skills in the book (except magical and resonance) at least rating 6 and an edge of 8.

Secondary to his skills is that he plans ahead. He’s the guy that has a contingency plan for anything and would most likely be able to go toe to toe against a dragon when it comes to out-thinking his opponent and have a plan for it.

After that he would most likely also have some cybernetics and bioware to give him and edge.

I mean, we are talking about a freaking obsessive ultra-rich madman that got teleported unto a flying nuclear missile and disarmed it in freaking mid-flight (Batman and Spawn).

He’s not designed to fight a cyberzombie in man-to-man combat he would have several traps and strategies for it before he met one.


Agreed about him having every skill. Wouldn't planning ahead BE a skill? Strategy and tactics for EVERYTHING in EVERY SITUATION? I cited some examples above why I don't think Bats would have cyber or bioware, however I might see him donning some headware that could give him the ability to learn any skill instantly. However if he had the option of doing it externally without any implants, then he'd take that instead.

And yea he is obsessed and super rich, but he does have limits to his madness, which I also cited above.
crimson ronin
I would guess witchblade was a physical magician(in case anyone forgot that archtype) and id say batman couldnt be an sr char because he would have to start with money AND skills AND attributes all first he COULD be a physad since he knows magic tho they dont go there because he is hard enough to write just as much he doesnt tote a sword i dont think he would ever consider getting cybered due to how itd affect his humanity(thats all he has to keep him sane i think)
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