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Saint Sithney
So a nanohive acts as a safe haven which allows nanites to replicate, but is otherwise not needed for nanites to function. Many of the nanite systems are 0-Essence-cost bonuses which can be enjoyed in multitudinous flavors and grades. Without the nanohive, the grades diminish at a rate of 1 point per week.

But what if you didn't need the nanohive in you? What if you just siphoned enough nanites from another character's nanohive to keep yours from degrading? Weekly injections. Say someone else had a rating 2 hive and only one nanite colony? That hive should, theoretically, be able to produce enough fresh nanites for an additional person. Naturally, you'd need a Type-O host to produce the extra nanites for transplantation.
What if you went even further though? What if you got, say, gen-engineered pig without cell markers or something? Type-O pork. If you had an animal to act as a host, you could stuff the bastard full of nanites and then just milk the machines from its freakish nanohive glands.

Does this idea break everything? You betcha. Is it viable or realistic? Probably.
Dumori
QUOTE (Saint Sithney @ Oct 3 2010, 09:35 AM) *
So a nanohive acts as a safe haven which allows nanites to replicate, but is otherwise not needed for nanites to function. Many of the nanite systems are 0-Essence-cost bonuses which can be enjoyed in multitudinous flavors and grades. Without the nanohive, the grades diminish at a rate of 1 point per week.

But what if you didn't need the nanohive in you? What if you just siphoned enough nanites from another character's nanohive to keep yours from degrading? Weekly injections. Say someone else had a rating 2 hive and only one nanite colony? That hive should, theoretically, be able to produce enough fresh nanites for an additional person. Naturally, you'd need a Type-O host to produce the extra nanites for transplantation.
What if you went even further though? What if you got, say, gen-engineered pig without cell markers or something? Type-O pork. If you had an animal to act as a host, you could stuff the bastard full of nanites and then just milk the machines from its freakish nanohive glands.

Does this idea break everything? You betcha. Is it viable or realistic? Probably.

I don't see the need for type-O at all. Nanites are just nanites there is no need for type-O at all. Even soft nanites would be fine to "transplant" if you can get them minus the blood. Not that hard you you need is a cybergland/autoinjector and to reprogram them to go to it.
Saint Sithney
Well, I was thinking Type-O for the soft ones specifically, since they're technically organic machines, so I could see there being problems transfusing some made in one host to another. Though, there's no rules for any of this shit, so it's all just chatter...
Rotbart van Dainig
The nanohive does not need a living being to produce nanites — it can even store spares. So with some tinkering, you can build a nanite dispernser yourself. Instead of just replenishing.
This basically saves you money in the long run, after some investment up front: Instead of having to buy the final product, you buy raw material and fab.

The regeneration rate is useless even if implanted, anyway — personally, I houseruled it to 1 point per day. That's still way slower than healing physical damage, mind you…
Saint Sithney
So, find someone with a nanohive, take it, and have X# nanites available to you forever at no cost.

This doesn't sound right...
Ascalaphus
QUOTE (Saint Sithney @ Oct 3 2010, 12:41 PM) *
So, find someone with a nanohive, take it, and have X# nanites available to you forever at no cost.

This doesn't sound right...


Technology meets game design. Technology wants to be more efficient, game design doesn't actually want people to get a free (too cheap) lunch.

It's analogous to the downloading/pirating/copying of software, really.
Dahrken
You still have to reload the nanohive (Ratingx500 nuyen.gif every 6 mont), no matter *where* it is, in your body, in someone (or something) else's body, or sitting on shelf plugged to a power supply, as Shadowrun's state of technology does not yet allow nanites able to self-reproduce from basic raw materials.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Dahrken @ Oct 3 2010, 08:23 AM) *
You still have to reload the nanohive (Ratingx500 nuyen.gif every 6 mont), no matter *where* it is, in your body, in someone (or something) else's body, or sitting on shelf plugged to a power supply, as Shadowrun's state of technology does not yet allow nanites able to self-reproduce from basic raw materials.


And for a damn good reason.
Neraph
I was under the assumption that the nano-hive replenishes nanites at roughly the same rate that your body flushes them out/the nanites break down.

So you could siphon 1 point a week from someone, but theirs would reduce 1 point a week, as their nanohive is not designed to restore their systems that quickly.
Mongoose
QUOTE (Saint Sithney @ Oct 3 2010, 09:35 AM) *
But what if you didn't need the nanohive in you? What if you just siphoned enough nanites from another character's nanohive to keep yours from degrading? Weekly injections. Say someone else had a rating 2 hive and only one nanite colony? That hive should, theoretically, be able to produce enough fresh nanites for an additional person. Naturally, you'd need a Type-O host to produce the extra nanites for transplantation.
What if you went even further though? What if you got, say, gen-engineered pig without cell markers or something? Type-O pork. If you had an animal to act as a host, you could stuff the bastard full of nanites and then just milk the machines from its freakish nanohive glands.


Why even put the nanohive inside a living creature? If it can go inside a cyberarm, it can go in a case on your bedside table. Actually, under the current rules you could buy one of those detachable limbs and put a nanohive in it- without actually ever implanting it. Not sure it would benefit you at all, but....
Ascalaphus
QUOTE (Mongoose @ Oct 3 2010, 05:53 PM) *
Why even put the nanohive inside a living creature? If it can go inside a cyberarm, it can go in a case on your bedside table. Actually, under the current rules you could buy one of those detachable limbs and put a nanohive in it- without actually ever implanting it. Not sure it would benefit you at all, but....


You might be on to something here..
KarmaInferno
"Dude, I have to ask... why do you always have a cyberhand strapped to your thigh?"





-k
Yerameyahu
I think it's a little premature to say that a living body isn't required on the logic that you can put in in a cyberlimb. After all, the cyberlimb is connected to your living body. smile.gif The hive is constantly working to maintain levels in your body, not flooding you with a new dose and then shutting down for a week.

It does certainly seem reasonable that 'external' nanite-makers exist; after all, where do you *buy* the original treatments from? I don't think it really 'breaks' anything, either. Require raw materials, and you get what you pay for. smile.gif
Draco18s
Also: a nanohive is the best cyberware for a drake ever. Nanites still function in drake form, and losing a few hours here and there isn't going to effect their rating that much, if at all.

Shame that there aren't any good nanite systems that make the 1 essence worth it.
Yerameyahu
Do they? They're an augmentation, and no augmentations work in drake form.
Udoshi
Nanocybernetics are not Nanite systems, though.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Neraph @ Oct 3 2010, 05:03 PM) *
I was under the assumption that the nano-hive replenishes nanites at roughly the same rate that your body flushes them out/the nanites break down.

It replenishes degraded colonies by 1 point per week, as well as preventing degradation through time.

So basically, by RAW, it's worth 2 points per week.
Saint Sithney
Well, my "balance?" suggestion was originally to be able to siphon nanites off someone without theirs degrading if they had a Nanohive capable of holding more colonies than they were currently using.

So, rating 2 nanohive with only one colony produces enough nanites for the guy's Adept friend to keep the little buddies flowing through his veins.

As to needing a living host, my assumption was that a hive in a cyberlimb was still hooked into the person's lymphatic system through some sort of tube and gasket system. Sort of how a cybergland/autoinjector can still pump helping happy things straight into your veins.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 4 2010, 01:24 AM) *
Do they? They're an augmentation, and no augmentations work in drake form.


I'm AFB at the moment, but I was under the impression that nanites themselves weren't an augmentation, but closer to a drug. There's no reason why they wouldn't work in drake form (unlike cyber arms, cyberlungs, and various other 'ware: things stop fitting properly).

But it's a moot point, as no nanites are worth having as a drake ("ooooh...a +Rating bonus to logic linked skill tests in quote 'non-stressful situations.' I can totally see THAT being helpful: nearly all ShadowRuns are stressful!")
Rotbart van Dainig
Universal Nantidote, O-Cells and Oxyrush are always worth having as is Antirad, if necessary.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Oct 4 2010, 10:31 AM) *
Universal Nantidote, O-Cells and Oxyrush are always worth having — as is Antirad, if necessary.


You get two before going over the 1 essence required for a nanohive to keep the nanites 'healthy.' Are two of those worth -1 magic?

-1 Magic on a drake that's already BP strapped?
Rotbart van Dainig
Well, the whole point of this thread is about not implanting the nanohive.

And of course, nanites don't need a nano hive to work — that's just more convenient & cheaper in the long run. So we are not really talking starting one-shot characters, either.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Oct 4 2010, 11:12 AM) *
Well, the whole point of this thread is about not implanting the nanohive.

And of course, nanites don't need a nano hive to work that's just more convenient & cheaper in the long run. So we are not really talking starting one-shot characters, either.


While true, I was commenting on the "standard" way of doing things. If you're going to bend the rules such that you don't need to implant it (and we're talking still 6 essence here) then it only matters if a drake can take nanites in both forms (I says they does, but meh).
Saint Sithney
Outside of combat and other specifically defined restrictions, "High Stress" is determined by composure tests. smile.gif
As long as you can manage 1 hit on a Cha + Wil test, then you can benefit from Neural Amplifier Nanite bonuses.
Need to crack a maglock? Perceive possible danger? How about a Knowledge Skill test? Wireless signal Capture? A simple Data Search? Medicine test?

There are lots and lots of Logic and Intuition linked skills, and, most of the time, they're not used in combat.
Draco18s
Point, however for my character at the time it wasn't worth the cost.
KarmaInferno
I still find it odd that the "host of other minor cybernetic modifications are made to pre-existing organs including the liver, kidneys, and spleen", that is part of the Nanohive implantation process, mysteriously costs no Essence if you put the Nanohive itself in a cyberlimb.




-k
Dumori
You can really pump the logic and int based skills into orbit. Perception can get even more mods to it. Really I bet you can make a build that rolls 40+ perception dice. And the logic based skills can be quite awesome. Also defaulting any academic knowledge skill and being really good at them has gotta help you get a job.
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (Dumori @ Oct 5 2010, 09:35 AM) *
Really I bet you can make a build that rolls 40+ perception dice.


Whohoo, free Gunnery dice!




-k
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