Full Version: Touch Spells
Right, but if you allow single-touch/multi-cast, you're kind of … not splitting. At least, you're getting something for free. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's not necessarily the obvious and only right thing, either.
QUOTE (Mäx @ Oct 13 2010, 03:15 PM) 
The FAQ can not change the rules, ever.
Yeah, the guy who wrote the official FAQ said that.
Then a few pages later in the same thread said, "Hey, this is the sole exception."
And.... were not just talking about your personal games, and I'm not really debating the validity of the change anyhow.
Some people do, in fact, use the FAQ change to mystic adept Magic ratings in their games.
Which is why I said "Depends if you use the changes from the FAQ".
And it does. Whether or not your game uses the change has an impact on the question at hand.
-k
QUOTE (M�x @ Oct 13 2010, 09:26 PM)
Nope, limit on spell force isn't a factor of magic linked skills, so its limited to your total magic.
So in case of the character i posted up to force 10 if overcasting and 5 if i want to keep the drain as stun.
So in case of the character i posted up to force 10 if overcasting and 5 if i want to keep the drain as stun.
QUOTE (SR4A Page 195 Mystic Adepts)
For every point of Magic invested in physical abilities, the character gets one Power Point that she can use to purchase adept powers. Every point of Magic invested in mana-based abilities grants the character one point to use with Magic-based skills.
Spellcasting is such a Magic-based skill.
QUOTE (SR4A Page 182 Force)
The Force of a spell is chosen by the caster during spellcasting, typically at a value up to the Magic attribute of the magician who cast it. The maximum Force that a spell can be cast at is equal to twice the character’s Magic.
...meaning the magic from the spellcasting ability.
I'll admit, it's messy (I can't believe they still haven't cleaned it up). But the FAQ clarifies it, and as you said yourself, the FAQ never changes the rules, they only help interpret them.
QUOTE (Myrgan @ Oct 13 2010, 06:21 PM)
Spellcasting is such a Magic-based skill.
...meaning the magic from the spellcasting ability.
I'll admit, it's messy (I can't believe they still haven't cleaned it up). But the FAQ clarifies it, and as you said yourself, the FAQ never changes the rules, they only help interpret them.
...meaning the magic from the spellcasting ability.
I'll admit, it's messy (I can't believe they still haven't cleaned it up). But the FAQ clarifies it, and as you said yourself, the FAQ never changes the rules, they only help interpret them.
4A writes that passage differently. "Every point of Magic invested in mana-based abilities grants the character
one point to use with Magic-based skills. For all other purposes, including the determination of the maximum level for adept powers, the character’s full Magic attribute is used."
The FAQ came after wards but some say that portion is from the earlier rules not the 4A rules. The for all other purposes part implies even force would be based off total magic, not the part dedicated towards magic skills. People will then say, and the FAQ doesn't change rules blah, blah. It is a bull crap semantic argument with no real weight to it, but end of the day for anyone use what fits your game best.
The rules have an example of a mystic adept with one point allocated to adept powers, who takes a level: 4 power with his power point. This goes directly counter to the FAQ. So whether you agree or disagree with the FAQ, it does change the rules.
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 13 2010, 12:49 PM)
I could've sworn you're required to start with 1 point of Adept powers.
Can you provide a page reference for that impression? I've not seen it, and if it is that way I'd like to know.
QUOTE (Neraph @ Oct 14 2010, 12:13 AM)
Can you provide a page reference for that impression? I've not seen it, and if it is that way I'd like to know.
There is no rule for it. But I've seen a lot of people on this board state they would not let a player get away making a mystic adept who had not split his powers up at least a bit. I never really understood why, but I've seen it.
How can I provide a page reference for an "I could've sworn"? 
I always assumed it was the rule. *shrug* If you have 0 PP, you're not an adept at all. If you have 0 spellcasting/conjuring, you're not mystic at all.
I always assumed it was the rule. *shrug* If you have 0 PP, you're not an adept at all. If you have 0 spellcasting/conjuring, you're not mystic at all.
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 13 2010, 10:43 PM)
How can I provide a page reference for an "I could've sworn"?
I always assumed it was the rule. *shrug* If you have 0 PP, you're not an adept at all. If you have 0 spellcasting/conjuring, you're not mystic at all.
I always assumed it was the rule. *shrug* If you have 0 PP, you're not an adept at all. If you have 0 spellcasting/conjuring, you're not mystic at all.
There was the possibility that there was a rule that you thought you remembered, and knew generally where it was, so then you could find it and post it. I was kindly and non-agressively asking if it did in fact exist.
I know. Just teasing you, Neraph.
I do think the GM should slap anyone who tries to go Mys-Ad without… being Mys + Ad. I mean, why would you even want to, planning for the future?
Just teasing you, Neraph.I do think the GM should slap anyone who tries to go Mys-Ad without… being Mys + Ad. I mean, why would you even want to, planning for the future?
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 13 2010, 10:47 PM)
I know. Just teasing you, Neraph.
I do think the GM should slap anyone who tries to go Mys-Ad without… being Mys + Ad. I mean, why would you even want to, planning for the future?
Just teasing you, Neraph.I do think the GM should slap anyone who tries to go Mys-Ad without… being Mys + Ad. I mean, why would you even want to, planning for the future?
Yes.
As certain Infected, those Essence Drain Magic points are really flexible on a Mys-Ad.
Alternatively, you could be playing a Mage that may want to expand a certain direction or an Adept that wants to expand his capabilities.
Then you take one measly point of Adept powers. Your starting character is supposed to be established. Maybe house-rule a Latent quality just for that, if it's so vital.
Essence Drain characters are the rarest, weirdest thing already, and certainly not something the game should be designed around.
Anyway, it's a pretty unimportant issue, and it's just an opinion. Definitely it's too far from the topic of this thread to go on about.
Your starting character is supposed to be established. Maybe house-rule a Latent quality just for that, if it's so vital.Essence Drain characters are the rarest, weirdest thing already, and certainly not something the game should be designed around.
Anyway, it's a pretty unimportant issue, and it's just an opinion. Definitely it's too far from the topic of this thread to go on about.
To be honest I just stated reasonings - I never said I'd use them. I agree with you on this topic.
QUOTE (Myrgan @ Oct 14 2010, 01:21 AM)
I'll admit, it's messy (I can't believe they still haven't cleaned it up). But the FAQ clarifies it, and as you said yourself, the FAQ never changes the rules, they only help interpret them.
Except its not intercepting them, its flat out contradicting an explicit rule from the book.
QUOTE (SR4A page 195)
Some adepts choose to learn less than their maximum number of adept
powers, preserving some of their Power Points for spellcasting or conjuring.
Such magicians are still called adepts by most magicians, though
other adepts may refer to the character as following the “Magician’s
Way.” Characters who wish to become mystic adepts have the option
of splitting their Magic attribute between spellcasting and conjuring
or physical abilities.
For every point of Magic invested in physical abilities, the character
gets one Power Point that she can use to purchase adept powers.
Every point of Magic invested in mana-based abilities grants the character
one point to use with Magic-based skills. For all other purposes,
including the determination of the maximum level for adept powers,
the character’s full Magic attribute is used. Such a character will not
have as many adept powers as most other adepts, nor will they be able
to cast spells with the same skill as true magicians. Mystic adepts may
use their adept powers normally.
powers, preserving some of their Power Points for spellcasting or conjuring.
Such magicians are still called adepts by most magicians, though
other adepts may refer to the character as following the “Magician’s
Way.” Characters who wish to become mystic adepts have the option
of splitting their Magic attribute between spellcasting and conjuring
or physical abilities.
For every point of Magic invested in physical abilities, the character
gets one Power Point that she can use to purchase adept powers.
Every point of Magic invested in mana-based abilities grants the character
one point to use with Magic-based skills. For all other purposes,
including the determination of the maximum level for adept powers,
the character’s full Magic attribute is used. Such a character will not
have as many adept powers as most other adepts, nor will they be able
to cast spells with the same skill as true magicians. Mystic adepts may
use their adept powers normally.
Relevant part bolded.
As max force doesn't have anythink to do with the characters magic based skills, it falls under the everythink else part.
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 13 2010, 11:59 PM)
Then you take one measly point of Adept powers. Your starting character is supposed to be established. Maybe house-rule a Latent quality just for that, if it's so vital.
Essence Drain characters are the rarest, weirdest thing already, and certainly not something the game should be designed around.
Anyway, it's a pretty unimportant issue, and it's just an opinion. Definitely it's too far from the topic of this thread to go on about.
Your starting character is supposed to be established. Maybe house-rule a Latent quality just for that, if it's so vital.Essence Drain characters are the rarest, weirdest thing already, and certainly not something the game should be designed around.
Anyway, it's a pretty unimportant issue, and it's just an opinion. Definitely it's too far from the topic of this thread to go on about.It is nice to know there is only one style of starting character in SR, ones so established that if magical they know everything about their magic. What is the big deal in a guy starting off as an adept and then he learns more about his magic and can cast spells or the opposite. He shouldn't need 1 point in spellcasting magic, he picks it up later as his character develops. Is character development a crime nowadays. Even though I freaking hated the books the dragonheart trilogy is a good example, the main character was just a phys adept. He picked up magic later on when his character developed. Players decide when they pick up new skills, improve attributes, learns spells, why can't they decides when to learn both parts of being a mystic adept.
You can take more points in either side later. A tiny 1 point in either one is not going to ruin any brilliant character concepts. In any case, I'm only talking about my opinion.
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 14 2010, 03:10 PM)
You can take more points in either side later. A tiny 1 point in either one is not going to ruin any brilliant character concepts. In any case, I'm only talking about my opinion.
Um if your character concept is you haven't learned any physical adept powers yet but have the potential to do so then yes 1 point in it will hurt your concept. Meanwhile you are just a mage who can't project. I guess in the other direction 1 magic might not hurt because you can just not take any spells or any skills in it yet. But why force the issue if that is how the person see's their character. Do people find the need to have other restrictions based on how they think the player should make their character. Sorry no Troll Mages, it is in the rules sure, but I just don't see it etc. Their concept won't be ruined if they just go orc instead after all.
Well, obviously they *should* use ork, it's a better race. 
That's hardly the same thing, though.
That's hardly the same thing, though.
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Oct 14 2010, 09:16 PM)
Well, obviously they *should* use ork, it's a better race. That's hardly the same thing, though.
That's hardly the same thing, though.It seems the same to me. It isn't a balance restriction like I wont let you abuse X rule it is a flavor restriction. They aren't getting the mad powers out of this anymore than they would if they put one point into it, or does 1 less die in spell casting really effect balance all that much? The complaint is basically I don't think people should take mystic adept unless they put points into both adept and spellslinging from the get go, because otherwise I see you just as an adept or just a mage. How is that any different than telling someone I don't think Trolls should be mages because they are big and dumb and I don't see big and dumb as a magician.
Because choosing a race is permanent and vastly different, and never in the direction you 'really wanted', whereas having one little point of PP/mage is exactly where you're going anyway.
Besides, the qualities specifically say not to allow them unless they're really using them; to me, they're not really using them (yes, you can say 'I plan to', and that's fine). You can do whatever you want at your game, of course. I'm not saying it's the RAW. Now, as I mentioned 24 hours ago, this really isn't on the topic.
Besides, the qualities specifically say not to allow them unless they're really using them; to me, they're not really using them (yes, you can say 'I plan to', and that's fine). You can do whatever you want at your game, of course. I'm not saying it's the RAW. Now, as I mentioned 24 hours ago, this really isn't on the topic.
The only real limitation of the quality (as written) is that it should only be taken by characters who want to explore their nature as mystic adepts. So there really isn't anything wrong with starting out solely with adept powers (although I would not let the player buy magical skills such as sorcery or conjuring until he had at least one point dedicated towards magery), or starting out solely with mage powers - as long as the player actually does intend to develop the other side of his abilities eventually.
The TRUE danger of such characters is that you will be emulating Ryan Mercury. The next thing you know, your character will be in bed with the Johnson, and the GM will be describing her dark brown nipples.
The TRUE danger of such characters is that you will be emulating Ryan Mercury. The next thing you know, your character will be in bed with the Johnson, and the GM will be describing her dark brown nipples.
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