I skipped 3rd ed, but in 2nd I remember a table of fines and other consequences for doing things you shouldn't. Haven't found anything similar in 4th. Is there anything? Or alternatively, can anyone remember where that table was?

I'm thinking in terms of getting caught with stuff mostly, the consequences of getting stopped with bone lacing, a cyberarm gyromount and an assault cannon should all be different, surely?

I guess this is one of those cases where it's left to the gm, I just don't have a point of reference to begin from.

This always bugged me a little bit too.
The core 4th ed says it's bad, but they leave the details vague.
How do you punish someone while leaving them playable?
You can't really stick a character in prison or execute them without ending that player's game.

I've been using the "hey, you're in prison...we'll let you out if you do something for us..." angle, but I'm not really happy with it.
You can always bust a character out of jail.

Massive fines in combination with a criminal SIN can stick a character in a tough spot.
I would be surprised to see a character left alive for the arrest and not simply shot on sight.

Doesn't Vice cover some examples of what kinds of punishments are done/available for certain illegal acts? I don't have my books with me...

Getting caught in SR is kinda like character death in D&D. You need the threat of capture to enhance the drama, but GM's generally hope it doesn't happen often.

An unlicensed pistol or other 'Restricted' item should probably have the PCs get their fake SINs well-scanned and a non-nominal fine issued. Maybe a few grand or 2-5 times the value of the restricted item for a fine. The PC's would probably want to get a new fake SIN at that point too.

Realistically, any PC getting caught with any 'Forbidden' items should probably get hauled-into the local police-station, and get booked. That usually means they'd photograph you, get your biometrics, and do a though scan of whatever fake SIN you had, and probably create a criminal SIN (AKA 'SINer' quality) if your fake SIN didn't hold-up. All of which means some very bad stuff for a character.

I tend to reserve a full capture for when a PC does some very stupid stuff, or when everything they do fails via die-rolls. Even then I allow for plenty of outs, e.g. fast-talk, "The cop looks away for a minute, and you see the handcuff-keys on his belt....", etc. If the whole crew gets caught, it's time to either conjure-up some new PCs, or roll with it and RP-out a full prison breakout.

I really prefer not to play Shadowrun: Prison, Shadowrun: Parole could be mildly entertaining, but Shadowrun: Court of Law doesnt sound that fun.

Well... a LOT of my normal cops are VERY bribeable (is that even a word?- no matter). The time to act is when they get to you. In "court" or prison/forced work it is pretty much to late (unless you are a world-renown genius in something... maybe THEN you are worth enough to get you out).

Of course if you already killed a cop, or get busted by a HTR-team or loyal goons of somebody... well, yeah your character is going down.

There has to be danger in my game. If you hand out "Get out of Prison" cards for 300 a piece like in Monopoly it's just boring.

Shadowrun: Criminal Intent is the best of the lot.

/agree

It's mostly a hope that your players have half a clue and know when to GTFO. That said, it's always a good bit of drama when Lone-Star or whoever manages to surround the PCs. Will they shoot their way out and risk getting labeled as cop-killers? Use gas-grenades? Get handcuffed and then bribe, fast-talk, or escape-artist their way out? Great fun can be had here.

I'm thinking Shadowrun: Lets be a little less obvious about the machine gun next time, shall we?

Not the best example, as the typical response to a troll with a machine gun is either gonna be
"Shit, why the hell are we in the barrens again? Damn GPS" or "Full SWAT team, now." but hopefully the general idea comes through.

Cyberware is a different issue, but with the exception of a couple of items, most notably bonelacing, I think you pays yer money and takes your chances.

Shadow-run the way I play it: Buying the Farm has never been cheaper.

Some things to keep in mind is the situation in which they got caught:

1. Corp Zero Zone: Dead...or cortex bomb/suicide mission.

2. Pistol/concealed carry/ minor weapon issue with a LEO:(You mean the player does not have a fake license?)Probably confiscation of the weapon and a fine of 500 nuyen. A sinless person would be arrested, and given a criminal SIN.

3. After a shootout with LEOs: Surviving PC's are going to be abused and more than likely quietly dissappear. All restricted cyber ware will be confiscated (possibly all of it).

4. Vice: Fine and short term prison stint.

5. Mages: A job offer off planet or more. Along with ritual samples. Failure to comply results in a loss of magic via surgical alteration (aka-brain dead, aka organ donor).

6. Techno's: Likely undetected, but may result in elective surgery (aka-brain dead, aka organ donor).

I'm not really for punishing people for their Wares unless they decided to try to walk through a MAD scanner onto an airplane.

Similarly, I'm not really for punishing people for their magical abilities unless they cast a massive spell right in front of someone and get caught doing it.

Obviously if the police actually capture and arrest these people, they will be punished for both, regardless of what actually landed them in police custody.

You're literally talking about ripping all the illegal Ware out of your gunbunny player and putting them back on the street with a criminal SIN. Not fun unless you're a brilliant GM and the player is all for being reduced back to street level.

if busted, it's the right time to ask the right connection for a big favor. maybe it's the mafia consiglieri who can pull the strings or an ares exec if caught by knight errant. as everybody knows, you're entitled to that one phone call

that's the reason to invest 7-10BP in one connection

What happens if you get caught?

You get to cuddle with Bubba

At least, according to my CJ teacher

Shadowrun: Special Victims Unit is what happens after Bubba the Love Troll.

On screening / scanning: Often times with extraterritoriality the local enforcement will just point to the door and say "We know what you got, now get out of here before there's trouble." to avoid a dangerous situation, paperwork, causing a scene, etc. Not on their prop, not their problem.

Course, there are always reasons for exceptions, like if the person in question looks like a pushover, the PC's character has treated them like a jerk / threatened them /carried out a threat / etc, or they think they can get a bribe, things like that might make them act a little differently.

Playing third ed we usually flash ratting 6 fake ID showing ourselves as “security consultants” with licensees for everything we are carrying. The best portable ID scanner is rating 4 and most cop cars have rating 3. They might pay us some attention still but they cant arrest us.

In SR3 main book there is a legality table in the front of the equipment section, it lists penalties for position and trafficking of most goods and weapons. Also whether permits are available.

Of cause most cops finding a sinless person with an illegal weapon would not charge them at all, depending on the cops mood the least he would do is confiscate the weapon and levy an on the spot fine (same value as the real fine goes into his personal account, and he keeps the weapon to drop beside people he shot when he shouldn’t have).


Some examples of the SR3 table ‘local fines and punishment (seattle)’ page 274 SR3 core
Pistol, possession 500nuyen, transport 1500nuyen, threat 5000nuyen, use/intent 10000nuyen and 1year/2years
Heavy weapons position 10000nuyen, transport 20000nuyen anything more 20000 nuyen and 1/4/10 years
Small blade possession 100nuyen, transport 500nuyen, threat 1000nuyen, use 2000nuyen/2 months, intent 5000nuyen/6 months

Being awakened is legal (in most jurisdictions) knowing high force combat spells isn’t, the only way the authorities can know you have a illegal spell is to see you use it or read your mind so it doesn’t come up often

Remember if the character is sinless and the cop knows it he isn’t likely to see a trial or a cell. Cops in SR are allowed to shoot sinless people for the slightest provocation, if you get caught with a sack of contraband and no sin the cop will get a free lunch telling his mates how he saved the city the cost of a trial, ant it would be legal.

That said he doesn’t want you bleeding on his car so you get some opportunity to turn the tables on him.

Well, with some forewarning at CharGen, you could do it like this:

If you get caught, someone with Connections could tell LS/KE that you're actually working for [the CIA] and that they need to let you go, despite your Forbidden gear.

Failing that, someone with some sway could get them to let you go "on probation". You get a job and perhaps a cranial bomb. You probably keep your gear.

Alternatively, you can use money to get released, but the price goes up for any Forbidden gear. Implants may be confiscated.

Why is it important at CharGen? Non-attached F gear is replaceable or you could hide it. A clever lawyer could "prove" it isn't yours. Implanted F gear marks you as a criminal, and it'll cost you a LOT to keep them from removing it and giving you a substandard legal body part in return.

Personally I'd like to run campaigns in a more swashbuckler-like style, where getting or losing gear isn't quite such an issue. You find some, you lose some. You get captured from time to time, and when you escape, you use what you manage to steal or find. The emphasis laid a bit more on skill and "reasonable" implants than on gear; capture isn't character castration.

F-rated implants should mostly be a Company Man kind of thing, for sick dedicated bad guys. If you use that shit you're beyond the pale. Well, at least the scary F-implants; a hot sim module would just be confiscated with a wagging finger and a fine.

That SR3 table sounds like the SR2 one I was thinking of and have just found in Shadowtech. It's not perfect for SR4 but it'll be useful none theless.

Personally, i think a lot of things are going to be issued as fines on the spot. Issue the citation, choose to plead or dispute on the spot, if you plead guilty, the cop issues the ticket and it gets auto paid.

Which is what the table in Shadowtech lists. I'm more likely to use the UCAS table than the Seattle one though, unless my players are dumb enough to run around with un(fake)licensed pistols and automatics.

I don't like that solution either for law enforcement, be it corporate or otherwise.
You could however go the nikita route. Having a corrupt organization within various agencies. This however would toatlly change the focus of the game.

I always liked the line "row 8, plot 30"

Okay, how about this? The SINless are generally the dregs of society - people the State doesn't want to touch because they have nothing to offer the State. A good runner is a highly skilled individual, perhaps with some high-grade implants. They represent a big investment; value. The question that needs to be asked is: can the runner be controlled? If so, he's valuable property as a (black) asset to the State, or whatever agency or corporation wants to buy the runner. If not, best have the runner die in a prison accident.

The way you deal with getting caught? Make them spend X on a really good lawyer that manages to get them off on technicalities.

Another option is to keep in mind the length of time trials take. Currently (USA) a trial is going to be on about a 2 year delay from the crime committed to actually appearing in full court. So have the players pay bail and either skip town or just run around free while they wait for the Judicial system to actually get around to them.

This is all under the assumption that the runners a) have a real SIN or b) have a fake on that holds up to scrutiny.

or c) are given a criminal SIN when they are captured.

A non corrupt in SR highly unlikely, but it can happen. otherwise they will just disappear.

Perhaps the circumstances of getting caught are actually most important, here:

Local LEO finds a runner during a traffic check: Results either in a bribe, a dead/disable LEO or the fake SIN holds up. After that the runner runs... duh.

Runners muck up and KE/Lonestar HTR teams arrive: Results in a big firefight, most probably, while the runners try to get away. The chances that you will be hauled in alive are slim, anyway. Of course there is that trouble with the stun damage in SR4...

Runners muck up and are disabled on Corp territory: Well... cranial bomb and really difficult mission follows. Or even - hey - they are runners. They are the epitome of "for sale". Cranial bombs also cost money, and if you get to do a complete biometric scan on someone, chances are they won't fuck with you for a while - making all that data go away will take some time. Just make them work off the trouble. Corp always need runners - even more so if they don't even have to pay them. As a Corp, I think captured runners are even more valuable than runners on the free market. They'll have data in their brains you can get out, they'll work for you for free - for a while, at least, AND they've already failed their original mission - which means you can now get back at whodoneit.

So the point is: Megacorps aren't so dangerous to a PC, because fun can be had after being caught. Small corps probably won't have the manpower to catch runners in the first place.

Which leaves law enforcment, and there it's simple: If you're SINless and get caught by law-enforcement, chances are you will try everything to not stay caught, hence, fight it out, and then run. I mean seriously, even if a group of local cops are trying to arrest you, you're not going to just let them. So basically if you lose you're most likely dead, not caught. (Again SR4's stun damage can mess with this, but we've already established that if you go down, cops are most likely to just off you.)

If you have a SIN and good connections, you pay your fine or post bail and walk out. This might be the only case where just letting yourself get arrested peacefully is actually a good thing. You basically call your lawyer even before getting in the cop car, he does his thing, you pay some fines, etc.

And if you walk into an AAA zone you better hope to not be carrying anything that might get you caught. As a PC I am always very careful in zones with high security. So I might be packing that Elan in the sole my shoe, but other than that I'll be looking the act - spanking clean. If you're actually trying a violent forced entry in an AAA zone then you'll be packing enough firepower anyway to blow through a normal patrol and kill the drones that might pursue. And hopefully your getaway driver will be good enough to get you away before the HTR teams arrive. AND those might actually decide to wait things out until you leave the AAA zone, because a firefight in downtown isn't going to bring anyone good PR. So running is always an option. You just have to make sure to lose the pursuit.

In our games it was always B-Zones that were the hardest. LE would be slow to arrive in comparison, but we knew that they would come with full effect - a tricked out squad, a mage, and a Citymaster at least. And when they got there, well, it was time to run like hell. Incidentally, a lot of times that is ALL that is likely to happen. They won't pursue, because noone pays them enough to die. Even the mage, who could follow in projection, won't do so because it'll be him alone vs. the runner mage, and that's not a fight he really wants. So maybe he sends a spirit, and a drone or three might take up pursuit, but that's it.

And usually this all works out, because ultimately it isn't any fun to be caught by law-enforcement, because it provides no new plot hooks, unless you have a character specialised in that angle. In which case he gets his fifteen minutes of spotlight, and then we move on. I also think that it's a staple of the game world (in OUR games) that law-enforcement is comparatively weak. The security perceived by the wage slaves is just that - perceived. It doesn't have to be real, because you can always spin things if they go awry. For that reason LE is often content with scaring you away - after all, then they've done at least part of their job. They won't risk their lives to catch you, unless you really fuck up. And that's also the reason why you break out the big guns against a pursuit. Normally I'm all for using Gel and S&S on the job, but when you're pursued you have to make them fear for their lives.

I'm mostly with this. Shadowrunners are very dangerous people. If you catch one with his guns holstered, you radio in their physical description and location and tell them to fuck off as quickly as possible. A cocksure kind of security type might take a bribe, but, by and large, shadowrunners are vicious killers not to be fucked with.

Reminds me of Way of the Gun when, in the initial kidnapping scene, they reach a standoff and the kidnappers back out and leave. The bodyguards radio to the guys outside, "They just made a pass. Do not, I repeat, do not engage." Naturally the other guards don't listen and a gunfight breaks out, killing the two guards outside and three innocent bystanders. That's the kind of crap that security wants to avoid, getting shot and getting other people shot.

Zero-zones are of course a different matter. Not too many places keep a ZZ policy though.

I don't know. I think a runner team full of mundanes stuck in prison could be wildly entertaining. For instance, what do you do with that guy that is friggin invested in unarmed combat and cybered out the arse?

Conversely, how do you deal with the guy that's hopped up on bioware?

Lastly, the god damned face.

The fun of the run is planning, using your applicable and available skills, how to break out of prison.

The A-Team movie could give some ideas. Otherwise they could just opt to stay in prison and direct their activities from there.

What happens when runners get caught:

"I was up on this robbery bit, looking at my first long stretch. This big shot lawyer comes in and says he can get me off, all I gotta do is a favor for him." -Parker, Way of the Gun