I am a lawyer. I work on legal matters all the time. Write contracts and check cases: its how I earn my living... And it does stress me: if I mess it up my client looses tons of money, or if its a criminal case, his freedom. These are things you don't mess around with.
A bomb squad who is deciding whether he should do the red or blue wire is /very/ stressed.
A heart surgeon who is replacng the little pump that goes wild when you fall in love, is very stressed when he has your ribs cracked and your torso exposed, and he's using a very sharp knife in there to save you.
A hacker is facing a "glacier" (a node full of IC) darker than a black hole, those programs can get him dead, brain dead or maybe even wash his brain to love the company he's trying to steal data from, while his partners are under fire... he's under stress.

I agree if he's just looking for pr0n in da interwebs... he's probably not stressed.
Running is as stressing a job as you can get.

Just my two

That's a rather extreme example. Yeah, sure, if your in a node that has a dozen IC in it, all using black hammer while you're using hot VR, then yeah, stressed. But if you're just hacking into a system... meh.

And in all of those cases, they still manage to concentrate just fine, because they keep composed. I really don't see why you wouldn't use this mechanic to do exactly what it is designed to do.

It's entirely possible composure doesn't matter. Keeping composed in a stressful situation doesn't alter the *stress*, and these a neural nanites. At the brain level, it *could* be that only the stress matters. In terms of game balance (which I know you care about )…

I was using an extreme example, yes, just to illustrate my point, but I'd say even a single Black hammer is grounds for stress.
On the other hand I agree that should a player ask for a composure roll I'd -at least- consider it very seriously depending on how the character is portrayed.

Actually stress is your body's mechanism under those circumstances to think fine. The bonus comes from when he can actually concentrate and very /relaxed/. Being composed under fire, or with risky IC -stun damage is painful and stressing- is different than being relaxed under those circumstances. The first one is just fine, desirable... the second one is scary and might even be cool for a concept, but ultimately incredibly rare and anyone with a psi degree would agree its close to some mental deficiency.

Well, the entry says that it doesn't work when you are stressed, which is open for interpretation. Is stressed the same as not relaxed, or is there an inbetween (stressed but composed) in which you can concentrate well enough to work properly? Personally I think that being composed in a stressful situation should be enough to make use of the nanites.

Edit: There are after all plenty of times in my life where I'm neither relaxed nor stressed, and there are plenty of times where I am stressed but still entirely composed. And then there are times when I just lose my mind under stress

@Yera - Yeah, but being composed effects your brain and body as much as being stressed in the first place does. So I don't see your argument there. And for game balance, I think hackers need ways to be above your standard agent, and I think neocortical is a good way to go about it.

Yeah, we are both basing our arguments upon examples which don't prove our points, in the end we both agree that under any circumstacnes you can be: stressed and freaking out (no nanites), relaxed (use your nanites away) or teh grey areas in between, that I shall call stressed but in different ranges of composed (GM fiat on use of nanites). We both draw the line differently there, maybe we could agree on a certain amount of successes depending on the situation: I mean, if a characters rolls 10 successes on a composure roll when hacking Zurich Orbital and surrounded by the blackest IC and hackers full of deadly programs, I'd say: use your neocorticals... if he rolls only 1 hit, I'd say: no, can't use it. You are under control, but not enough to use the nanites.

Isn't that a point we both can agree on?

Karoline, I think you'll find that's not true. Inncubi is talking about the same thing. 'Stressed-and-composed' is different from 'relaxed'.

Anyway, the book makes it pretty clear already:
So. GM decides what's 'ultra-secure', 'major distractions', etc.

Yes, very much. I didn't mean that a single hit should always mean you are composed, and it isn't what the rules for composure say. Yeah, for more stressful situations, you're going to need more hits on a composure test.

The biggest problem with a street samurai/hacker is that there is not very much synergy between the two roles. Street samurai need good physical Attributes, combat skills, and cyber/bioware. Hackers need good Logic, hacking/technical skills, and different cyber/bioware, as well as the outlay for their commlink and programs. So any attempt to do both means that you will have to compromise.

Here's a build from me. He's not the greatest samurai, or the greatest hacker, but he can at least do a reasonable job in both areas:

There's an easy way for Neo-Cortical nanites to get around that "stressful situation" limitation: drugs. I'm away from my books but there's a drug, dopamine I think, that basically calms you down to the point of canceling beserk. Since you already have a cyber-limb for you nanohive, it's trivial to fit in an autoinjector and a biomonitor. Once stress becomes a problem the biomonitor senses it and injects dopamine, problem solved. To be fair, this gives your GM a chance to make drug addiction a serious problem (if you're drugging every run, well...) but most of the GMs I've run across simply aren't that interested/mean.

I was wrong about Reflex recorder, it's not for Matrix actions.

I'm not sure about Adepts being better than cyber for hacking. Cyber is money intensive, very money intensive, but with Encephelon, Neocortical, and PuSHeD you're at +7 to all matrix actions and that more essence than most adepts are willing to drop. Plus, if you have unwired and take Simsense Accelerator (again, AFB) from Augmentation and the Matrix IP booster from Unwired you can get up to 5 IP in the matrix.

@Glyph, I think you're right about the lack of synergy, with one caveat. Most of the Hack/Sams I've played have no problem matching a straight Sam for firepower, it's durability that's the problem. Muscle Toner and a cyber-limb with gyromount is usually plenty powerful

Well, there is some truth that adepts always have more potential, because if they really wanted they could get everything that a mundane hacker could get, and then stack on 3 points of improved ability on top of it. So they'll always have a higher potential pool, but they cost will be way too high to make it very viable.

The book doesn't say it's about your reaction. It says "major distractions or encroaching stressful situations". If the situation is distracting or stressful, that's what matters.

Now, it might be a fun house rule that you can use drugs and things, though. However, if you really are using drugs on every hack… no, that's not even a little bit mean for the GM to look into the addiction rules. That's basically their exact intended use.

My original suggestion was for an adept with a partial limb, which would take most of the goodies. Add pushed on top of that and take improved ability instead of the encephalon.

Wouldn't be able to get them all at char gen but without the 75k for encephalon, overall cost goes way down.

Yes, but 'major distractions or encroaching stressful situations' is highly subjective. It says 'ultra secure system'. Is that a strait rating 6 system? Is that something much higher?

I mean, if you just want it to be a 'stressful situation' well, I'm fairly sure that simply living is stressful when you're a professional criminal. That means neocortical should never work for runners, right? I mean, sure, you're composed about it and all, but it is still a stressful situation. Heck, having to go to work every day and make ends meet is fairly stressful. You really can't base neocortical's use on just 'stressful situations', you have to base it on a person's reaction to that situation. And a hacker isn't usually going to be all that stressed during a hack (especially one with a good composure check). And obviously someone on ultra anti-stress drugs similarly isn't going to count as being stressed for neocortical.

Personally, I'd start with 'solid-but-not-perfect hacker', toss in 'decent-but-not-great' gunbunny, and improve from there. Melee is really only for the true specialists. That's just me, though. Either way, I'd focus on the hacker side more than the sam side, to start with. Eventually, you can 'max out' both. … in the really long run.

It gives examples, Karoline. Firefight, chase, difficult hack. I said, yes, it's still GM decision, but those are pretty good guidelines. *Obviously* not 'simply living', because that's not like any of the examples. And it's not obvious that drugs affect it, no; we don't know the neuroscience, so it could go either way. The GM *could* rule that they do. It's also a total house rule to use Composure at all, but it could be a good one. (Although, once again, composed is *not* unstressed. Composed practically implies stressed, otherwise you're just 'normal'.)

Pure RAW, you're probably right.

For me, this is the fuzziest kind of RAW with no guidelines to the GM about what constitutes a stressful situation or what other effects there might be. Arguing that the stressfulness or distraction of a situation isn't subjective to the person experiencing though would be a stretch at most tables, in my opinion. If the drug can turn an uncontrolled raging madman calm and rational then even the most stressful situation shouldn't bother an ordinary person using it.

As for addiction, what I meant is that in a lot of hacking situations you shouldn't need the drugs and they're not terribly addictive so it'll take awhile before addiction becomes a problem. I think that's good, it stops you from hogging the limelight with your drug addiction while still having a cool roleplaying opportunity.

And it isn't exactly the worse drug to get addicted to. It's like getting addicted to anti-depressants or something, it isn't all that harmful.

It's probably the same as hot-sim hacking, which is also addictive. They're *all* harmful, even if they're not K-10. Except Betel, which is a free 5BP for a +1 Intuition.

Berserk (the state, not the trigger) isn't necessarily related to stress at all, though, or in totally different ways. Drugs and the brain are complicated enough to accommodate basically any GM ruling we want. That's my point: it's *still* a GM decision, and squeezing 3 more dice onto your optimized hacker by weaseling around the limits in the book generally doesn't ingratiate you.

Well, when squeezing those 3 dice are nearly the only difference between a hacker and a high grade agent, yeah, I'm going to try and get them, and I'm going to do my best to not let (yet another) poorly defined almost offhand statement cause an item to be entirely worthless. Because lets face it, the only time you actually need those extra 3 dice are when you are under 'stress', and 'stress' is entirely undefined in the books (except slightly in the composure area).

Yeah, it is a GM decision on when it should or shouldn't apply, and it is a GM decision on using the composure test or not, but if the GM is hitting my hacker for being stressed while hacking, I'm going to ask that the streetsam take a penalty for being stressed while fighting for his life, and that the face take a penalty for negotiating anything remotely important for being stressed, and that the rigger working on his delicate drone's insides take a penalty for being stressed and so on.

And yeah, all addictions are potentially harmful, but only if you hit burnout level which reduces your essence. Before that it is only harmful if the drug you take is itself harmful.

Wow, thanks for all the help, all of you!

I think I've been able to refine what I want, with your help. I'd like to be either a Human or an Ork (preferably, but not necessarily, with the Human-Looking quality), and I would like to be good at two things: Hacking and Combat. As far as combat goes, I think I want to be more of a gunbunny than street sam, at least initially (room to grow is nice). I'm ok with being a "solid-but-not-perfect-hacker" and a "decent-but-not-great" gunbunny, especially if that means I can diversify my skills a little. I understand I could get to this by either going the Adept route or the heavily cybered guy route - I'm not sure which I prefer. I know my GM would prefer not to have much magic, but I figure an Adept is ok since I'm not going to be a total spellslinger. That said, I like the idea of bioware and cyberware, though I'd rather not go with the full-limb replacement route (doing just the legs, or lower legs, and an arm would be fine, if that would work). As far as the face and artisan roles, I don't need to be particularly good at either, but the better I am, well, the better.

Thinking on it, I think I'd rather go the cyberware route, since my GM has stated that he would prefer we not use (much) magic. But of course, if the Adept route leads to a more versatile character (especially if it has more room to grow) then I'll run that by him.

I'll ask my GM if a composure check or drugs would allow me to use Neo-Cortical Nanites in stressful situations. Where are they found, though?



And what makes a true specialist? The ability to take as much damage as he can put out? Would that make this a role I could build into, once I can afford the appropriate 'wares?

Surely the entire reason for the 'distraction/stress' rule is to limit the use of this, Karoline. It's hardly an "offhand statement", and it's not like you can't use those dice in a thousand other situations. The sam isn't using nanites that specifically say he can't be stressed! The hacker, on the other hand, has a direct book example of a hacking situation in which the nanites don't work.

(Incidentally, that same list of stressful examples pretty much locks up the 'Logic-linked means hacking' argument, don't you think? )

No, I meant that a true specialist is required for melee because you need a pretty significant chunk of attributes, skills, qualities, augmentations, and gear to be good enough at it to (a) go against other melee specialists and (b) do any better than just using a gun. Melee is at a disadvantage, so you have to be really good to compensate.

Then what is needed in order to go up against other melee specialists, and do better than using a gun, if you don't mind my asking?

Well, if you want to avoid the cyberlimbs, I highly suggest looking over my build, which could fairly easily be tooled over to a human with a low strength. Lots of cyber, but none except for the foot and datajack obvious at all.

As for Yera's comments, melee has alot of dice to defend with. More than you generally have to attack with. An attack is stat+skill+bonuses, and a defense is stat+skill+bonus+(with an action spent) skill again. This means you generally need to be significantly better than your opponent in order to land hits in melee. For ranged however it is stat+skill+ (easier) bonuses vs stat+(with an action spent) skill, this means it is usually fairly easy to hit your opponent even with fairly lackluster skill and stat.

Then there is damage. For a gun, a 6p/-1 weapon is exceedingly easy to grab, and an easier attack means more net hits usually. To get that with melee you generally need a high strength and a good weapon, and it will still be lower because you're not going to have as many net hits.

And all of that is before taking into account your 1m range with melee compared to your 100+ meter range with guns. This is an even bigger problem when you consider that you can only run so far, regardless of # of IP, meaning that if you start combat from too far away, an enemy with a gun could get literally dozens of shots off on you before you even get to swing.

All in all, melee is just generally full of problems, and is why it requires a much higher degree of specialization to be useful. You need larger DPs, you need a way to ensure you can be in melee (higher stealth requirements) and/or the ability to run crazy fast, you need a high strength (usually a dump stat), you need higher base DV because you'll get less net hits.

So, unless you're playing a character that is entirely focused on being good at melee, you're going to be really really bad at melee.

That about covers it, but I'd also mention Martial Arts and maneuvers (more BP/karma investment).

I see. And I've been going over your build, it seems like it ticks most of the boxes (if I'm reading it right at least). I'm just having some trouble parsing it out, but that's just being new to the system. I'm not sure what some of the stuff is or is doing though, namely the reusable auto injector. What does that do for me? Also, I'm not so sure I need to avoid the cyberlimbs, I just want to make sure I've got at least one arm that's pure meat (for flavor). And is there anything I get from Wired Reflexes 2 that I wouldn't get from Move-by-Wire 2? I'm interested in at least having the capacity to run skillsofts to shore up some skills I'm not terribly good at, if need be.

Where are martial arts and maneuvers found? I remember seeing something about martial arts in the core book, but it sounds like you mean something a bit more detailed, Yerameyahu.

On another note, I just got Arsenal and Unwired, so if there's anything in either of those that would help me, or that I should be saving karma/ for, let me know.

Yes, it is to limit it, but how much? Like I already said living makes most people 'stressed' This conversation is making me 'stressed' Yet I'm still perfectly able to focus and concentrate, because I don't nerd rage troll post or whatever. And I'm hoping that I'm still posting fairly coherently (by my standards, I know I'm hard to follow sometimes). And for 25k and .25 essence, I'd hope those 'thousand other situations' include something useful, but for the most part they include knowledge checks which come up sparingly (Oh no, wait, it is important that you remember it, now you're all stressed), medic checks (Oops, those are all stressful situations), hacking (stressful), computer use (rarely requires a check in the first place), data search (extended test with maximum time of 1 minute, big whoop), hardware (Might shave a test off of building some component, but bypassing a maglock will be stressful), software (Once again, might shave one time period off the test for making a program for as often as that happens), and the various mechanic tests (once again, a slight time saver in something where time isn't really important.)

So yeah, it is basically an entirely worthless piece of ware if it never works when the person is under any stress unless you allow ways to mitigate that stress in the form of personal experience (included in the books), composure tests (included in the books) and/or drugs (If not specifically in the books, I can't possibly imagine that 'smoothers' don't exist in SR)

And you're right, the Sammy doesn't have ware that doesn't work while stressed, but the books do talk about penalties for not being composed, so if the GM is going to apply those penalties to the hacker (via bringing up stress for the sake of Neocortical) then the GM needs to bring up those penalties for everyone else as well. The sammy isn't going to be happy when suddenly taking a flat -2 to everything every time combat happens because a person who's entire life revolves around combat is stressed about combat. Just like the hacker isn't going to be happy when suddenly losing a bonus every time hacking happens because a person who's entire life revolves around hacking is stressed about hacking.

True, it does seem to be even more support to what is already fairly plainly RAW.

The auto-injector is for drugs, which you *can* avoid altogether, but they can be nifty. The idea is that an auto-injector can be triggered by pre-set conditions (biomonitor) or electronically (a Free action).

The Martial Arts are in Arsenal.

You're being a little silly, Karoline. Again, the book gives pretty clear examples of what counts as a distraction or stressful situation: firefight, chase, risky hack, etc. The rule is definitely there to limit a pretty huge bonus, and it hardly 'makes it worthless' or unusable.

Most of your examples are spurious: the maglock wouldn't be disallowed unless it was while you were being chased, or possibly if failure meant the security guns would blast you. 'Living' (once again) certainly doesn't count, and no one but you ever suggested it did. Knowledge checks could be disallowed in some situations… like firefights or chases. Just because you don't care about Build/Repair or Programming, doesn't mean they're not a perfect use of this augmentation. Not everything is designed for runners.

@ Yerameyahu
I think a lot of it boils down to the table you're at. A GM who wouldn't allow dopamine with Neo-Cortical nanites is probably gonna smack whoever brings him a hacker adept like some of the ones seen here. If he'd allow it, you're probably at the same table as the street sam troll taking anti-tank fire and the mega mage so you'll fit right in. However, I can't see a GM who would say "Yeah, that makes sense but it's not specified in RAW so I'm not gonna allow it and most hacking situations will be stressful so you might as well not bother." while allowing the rest of the silliness to continue. If he does, you're either in an extremely RAW universe and everyone else will be dead after the first run anyway or he's just screwing with you.

@ WhiskeyJohnny
Neo-Cortical nanites are in the Nanoware section of Augmentation. Drugs should be Augmentation, maybe Arsenal.

For Melee, either specialize heavily or pick up shock gloves/baton and call it a day.

Lets see...

I picked Wired reflexes 2 over MbW 2 because MbW 2 requires the restricted gear quality and an extra 50k nuyen, and the build is already hurting for nuyen. I see no reason that you couldn't upgrade to it in play once you've gathered up the money though.

The auto injector is there mostly because it is cheap. What it does is make it easy to give yourself combat/hacking drugs, or things like hits from a savior medkit to heal yourself. You could easily take it out, but it is something that I often like to have as an option.

Martial arts and maneuvers are in Arsenal. And if you have unwired, the two main things that will help you right away is the fact that you can get programs for 10% the cost, but they degrade every month (Great for getting high grade programs to start with), and the... ah, what's it called. It basically gives you an extra IP when you're in VR. Synapse acceleration module or something like that. It is a modification for your commlink and is fairly cheap. May want to get hardening or something like that from arsenal, and certainly look over the weapon mods section for customizing your weapon of choice. Unwired also has tons of other crazy hacking rules, but I'd suggest not worrying about them too much right away.

Oh, and finally for your other question: Adepts will always have more room to grow. Magic characters as a whole always have more room to grow, but the mundane character will also have alot of room to grow. Upgrading stuff from second hand to higher grades to get more stuff, tons of skills to improve on, and in the case of the build I posted, specializations in particular. It really won't be a problem unless you're expecting to earn more than a few hundred karma. I mean, specing and getting cracking group up to 6 is already a good 65+ karma worth of improvement.

You're right, PoliteMan: I can't see a GM who'd say that either. It's a ridiculous statement that you crafted there. However, I can easily see the GM who'd say, "some hacking situations, especially the risky kind that runners often get into, could be stressful; look here, where the book specifically says so".

As I did say before, a house rule for drug use could be a good idea. 'House rule' is not a dirty word. I'm not convinced that dopadrine is necessarily the drug that would do what you're suggesting, but it might be, or another drug (Guts, perhaps, although 'no fear' doesn't equal 'no stress/distraction' either).

Generally, when you see people talk about being stressed, they're not talking the low level stuff that happens constantly on a minute by minute basis.

They're talking significant out of the ordinary amounts. Like bullets-whizzing-by amounts.

I generally don't apply the condition unless significant negative effects for failing are present.



-k

Like, I dunno, a firefight, chase, or risky hack?

Yeah, except that the book specifically says 'ultra secure system' and nowhere in any of the books is 'ultra secure system' defined in any way, shape, or form. To some people, a computer without a password is ultra secure. To some people nothing below military grade security is more than trifling.

And I'll cherry pick messing with a maglock. If you aren't pressed for time (and could thus take forever messing with the lock) or the lock isn't alarmed (and could thus take forever messing with the lock), your DP isn't really all that important. You'll get through it eventually, and in that case, the extra 3 dice don't matter. Same for the programming. You'll get the program made eventually anyway, it isn't like those extra 3 dice will make any difference in the long run.


Agreed, a house rule to allow drugs to calm/relax a person would be great. It doesn't necessarily need to be any of the drugs listed. Since it is already technically a house rule, may as well make up some cheap smoother drug. Heck, maybe just grab some marijuana brownies before each run


Maybe it's just me, but when people talk to me about being stressed, bullets generally don't enter the conversation. Exams and homework do, but never bullets that I can recall.

edit:
Which would kind of fall under my 'you only need them when you don't get them' argument. If there is no significant negative effect for failing, then there is barely any reason to be rolling the dice, and there is even less reason to need those extra dice.

Um, okay. If you think that 3 dice is nothing, then why are you fighting so hard for them? I'll gladly take those 3 dice on programming, build/repair, any number of routine hacks (once again, no one's saying that *all* hacking is banned), etc., thanks! 'Eventually' isn't as nice as you imply.

Still, I'm a little surprised that you can't use a little imagination on 'ultra-secure'. Yes, it's GM discretion. … so? Many things are GM discretion. It's hardly as vague as you suggest; hyperbole is one thing, but you're really chucking out the straw men tonight.

Yes, it is inherent in the nature of this augmentation that it *doesn't* work in some situations when you'd *really* want it to. That is not a crime against your character. That's how the augmentation works. Next you'll be mad that Heal spells don't work before you're wounded, or that you can't spend money you don't have? It'd really be handy if wound penalties were actually bonuses, because that's when you most want to avoid further damage, right?

Fair enough


I guess what I'd take out of this is that you need to have a quick chat with your GM about Neocortical nanites before you buy them. There's only some very vague RAW (if there was something more specific I'm sure someone would have mentioned it by now) so you and him need to both agree on what constitutes a stressful or distracting situation and whether and to what extent that can be controlled through drugs. I just don't see enough in the RAW to assume one way or the other.

Definitely. All 'creative' plans should be run by the GM first, anytime, foreveramen.

It is nothing when the results of your roll doesn't matter. When the results of your roll does matter, 3 dice is very important. When programming, the results of your roll don't really matter, unless you're in a situation when you are pressed for time and thus stressed.

I can use imagination on ultra secure, but it is exceedingly vague, and it will vary greatly from person to person. I view 6 as the highest program rating a person can have without stealing a program from the military or something, which would be the focus of a run. And I also view an ultra secure node to be something with strait 7s or more for stats and running programs. That or strait 6s and dozens of IC with black hammers while running hot VR and somehow not slowing down the node.

Yes, I understand it is the nature that it doesn't work when you'd really want it to, but my point is that if you simply use 'stressful situation' without any kind of real definition, then it doesn't work any time when it actually matters, which is a big difference.

It's like if there was a piece of cyberware that let you punch for 20P, but it only works as long as you don't punch anything with more than 1 box of health/structure.

No, it's like if there was a piece of nanoware that gave you +3 to Logic-linked skills, but only outside of situations like firefights, chases, and risky hacks. Again, there *is* a solid, if not exhaustive, list of examples. Right there in the book.

On a side note, I can't understand why you're so obsessed with the "exceedingly vague" example of 'ultra-secure'. If anything, it's vague on the high end, as you say. … That means your precious 3 dice are almost always *safe*, Karoline. So, why are you mad?

The results of your rolls always matter, and 'pressed for time' isn't the given criterion of 'stressful situation'. And I don't think anyone said it really was. It can certainly be a factor, along with many others. And again, I'll gladly take those 3 dice for programming, and the many other uses they're available for. Some of those uses are not shadowrunner uses, it's true. That's okay: not everything in the book is tailor-made for shadowrunners.

Yeah, but we are talking about Shadowrun here, not HighSchoolRun or OfficeRun.

This is a world where bullet resistant clothing is commonplace and they elected a Dragon as President.




-k

You can't run in the high school. Hall monitor!

Ok, so I've finally come to a decision - I'm going to roll a mundane character, and an Ork. I could use some help understanding how cyberlimb stats work, as I think I might like to have both lower legs cybered. How did that monster cyberlimb build get all that armor and huge stats and armor?

I've been looking over Karoline and Glyph's builds, and I think I'd like to go with something along those lines (though, Glyph, I think your build has more resources than a new character is allowed).

I've got a couple of questions on Biocompatibility, namely should I take it and if so, for cyber- or bioware? I guess what I'm really asking is should I go for more bioware or cyberware, as I think that would answer the previous question. Second, Biocompatibility reduces the cost by 10%, so does that mean -.1 or *.1?

Cost is original cost*0.90 (or 1-modifiers, if you will)

And even then, you just spent a ton of bp on rolling agility+skill to hurt people, something guns do just fine for cheaper. And in terms of versatility, even gun skills aren't so hot and people usually pick just one to concentrate on if they can at all help it. As Karoline said, it's not even just about needing strength to jack up your damage code. It's also about the sheer amount of dice you need, since people always* get to add skill when defending and burning a complex action allows people to add skill twice. This is offset somewhat by the fact that melee isn't routinely taking range modifiers, but this is rather cold comfort given that you can't punch people in the face from 30 meters. It's honestly a skill for bullies; it does best when you're attacking someone who can't handle themselves in a fist fight because they have practically no Dodge or Close Combat or who at least doesn't have the passes to freely burn them on defensive measures.

Here's my own philosophy on melee: They're best used as a bag of defensive tricks, not primary offense. Close Combat is sub-optimal as a form of offense in Shadowrun. But it still exists and pointing out that the ganger who just stabbed you could have done more damage by shooting you twice with a Predator won't help you soak the damage. It's better not to get hit at all. So if you have points to spare, replacing Dodge with a nice combo like Gymnastics and Unarmed Combat/Clubs plus utility/defense Martial Arts bonuses and maneuvers like Throw, Ground Fighting, Watchful Guard, Disarm or Evasion can be a nice way of adding some useful hand-to-hand flavor to a character without having to also break the bank on Strength.


*Well, not if they're completely surprised or don't have the appropriate weapon for their skills. It would have been more accurate for me to say that they can add skill without the expenditure of actions.

Exactly, which is why you'd want to use stun baton or shock gloves. Then you need agility, no strength.

Alright, I'll pick up some shock gloves then. I'll post a prospective build in a bit (when I've finished it) - if you all could help me refine it I'd really appreciate it.

Sounds good!

I don't really consider that to be a terribly important consideration. Damage value means very little to me compared to the ability to sport a quality defense pool. Unless I'm going for the damaging Disarms on defense trick, the only thing I care about is if the weapon gives Reach or not. Luckily, clubs generally have Reach, whether it's a taser or a simple mace. Beyond that it's simply a matter of convenience, with my most commonly used options being bare hands or firearms via Improvised Weapon.

He has the Born Rich quality (from Runner's Companion), which lets you spend up to 60 points on resources. You could ditch the encephalon and the cerebral boosters (to pick up later) if you want to drop him back to 250,000 Nuyen, saving 20 points.

Define Risky Yerameyahu...

Problem is that "Risky" is subjective to the person doing the Hack... What is Risky for a 400 BP character is a stroll in the Park for the Post Created, 300 Karma Character, and what is Risky for him is of no consequence to Fastjack... And that is the problem...

No, that's really not a problem at all.