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Skarn Ka

I think I used to read in a thread that the 2001 attacks in NYC didn't occur in the SR storyline, but actually they did... and the Twin Towers were destroyed in 2001, not during the 2005 quake.
Especially useless, ain't it ?
Kagetenshi
They did?

Not that it matters. Regardless of what happened before, the Quake of '05 trumped everything.

~J
Zazen
Good thing I got earthquake insurance from that nice door-to-door salesman.
Backgammon
QUOTE (Skarn Ka)
I think I used to read in a thread that the 2001 attacks in NYC didn't occur in the SR storyline, but actually they did... and the Twin Towers were destroyed in 2001, not during the 2005 quake.
Especially useless, ain't it ?

What are you basing this on?
Skarn Ka

Don't have the book with me right now, but it's in Deutschland in den Schatten 2 (Germany in the Shadows), under the GroB-Frankfurt entry.
They say after the WTC collapse city authorities opposed the construction of too many new skyscrapers, what made the banks scream.
It makes sense since the book was published right after Sept. 11th (there's even a mention of it in the Foreword IIRC).
I guess Fuchi would have built its tower on the former WTC site, or it bought whatever new tower was (will...) be built there, "Liberty Tower" or something.
BTW, are you American folks going to do what you did with French Fries ? Call it the French Tower ? grinbig.gif
kevyn668
Wouldn't push the "French" thing w/ the average American, mate. Especially in the same sentance you make light of the 9/11 incident. Just some friendly advice.
Firewall
Look, I'm a Brit and I would cut him some slack. The whole 'Freedom Fries' thing scares me...
Nikoli
As an american, the whole freedom fries thing I find just funny. it mainly stems from the idea that the american people don't like it when a nation who claims to be an ally makes shady deals with someone funding attacks directly or indirectly. The general populace feels France, as a nation betrayed them as a nation, it's that simple. But it's not the point of this thread so extinguish.gif.
kevyn668
I did cut him slack. I just forgot the obligatory smile.gif at the of "...friendly advice"
I didn't take offense at his statement eventhough I, like many people, know someone that lost his life that day. Thats all I'm saying.

As far as SR altering its timeline to reflect the events of that day, I agree that the 05 quake sets the scene well enough. Then no one has to go into all the political "stuff" that has transpired between now and then.

BTW, what does being British have to do this?
Is this about some Americans getting all ticked off at the French and renaming a delicious side dish?

Oh, and they were "Freedom Fries" not "Liberty Fries" smile.gif
fourstring_samurai
the french thing really isn't a big deal, if you look at it. 9/11 is, but france isn't. The media makes it a huge deal, much the way it made the east coast/west coast rap rivalry into a real war (of sorts).

France has helped and hindered the US many times in the past. We wouldn't have won the revolutionary war without their navy, but we also wouldn't have been involved in the vietnam war if it wasn't for france.

Love them, Hate them, or feel indifferent, you have to admit that renaming things because the have the word "french" in them is pretty silly.
Nikoli
And I do.
Besides, I don't think I could ever Freedom kiss my wife. just doesn't sound right.
fourstring_samurai
rotfl.gif
Nikoli
biggrin.gif
Nath
QUOTE (fourstring_samurai)
we also wouldn't have been involved in the vietnam war if it wasn't for france.

US refused to back the French with air support at Dien Bien Phu in 1954. France lost the Indochina War, signed peace in 1954 and left. Then only the US started backing the South Vietnamese against the North communists, which escalated into Vietnam War.

No matter what's said about the long-living alliance, the special relationsips, the Western Democracies and all those things, US played an active role in the disintegration of both the French and British colonial empires after WW2.
fourstring_samurai
good point nath. I spoke a bit incorrectly. i didn't mean that the french directly got the US involved, Just that circumstances involving france (i.e. their recognition of vietnam as a free state and such) led up to the US being involved. hindered was too strong a word to use. sorry.
Backgammon
Hmm, first time the SR history is altered for reality. They shouldn't have done that, IMO. I shall choose to ignore it.
Nath
QUOTE (Backgammon @ Mar 11 2004, 09:49 PM)
Hmm, first time the SR history is altered for reality. They shouldn't have done that, IMO. I shall choose to ignore it.

The ownership of DaimlerBenz passed from IFMU in Germany SB to Chrysler-Nissan in Rigger3 with no other reason than because Chrysler and Daimler merged IRL. Rigger3 got pretty heavy on that, also adding McDonnel-Douglas to Federated-Boeing holdings. IIRC the fate of Lockheed also changed since NAGNA and mirrored RL events. At least, including the World Trade Center crashes did not contradict any previous book.
JongWK
AFAIK, the Shadowrun timeline diverges from the 1980s and onwards.
Skarn Ka
QUOTE (kevyn668)
Wouldn't push the "French" thing w/ the average American, mate. Especially in the same sentance you make light of the 9/11 incident. Just some friendly advice.

I'm sincerely sorry if I've offensed you, really. I don't understand what you mean by "French thing": Do you mean I shouldn't joke about something I find terribly silly, and that some Americans decided to implement ?
I won't start a geopolitical debate with you, even though I support France's stance in what regards the war in Irak.
My question wasn't supposed to hurt anyone, just to highlight a point I found funny -and I mean the French/Freedom thing, NOT the 9/11 (no relation between both, remember ?).
And I can't see where I made "light" of the incident. If it's forbidden to talk about dramatic events in RPGs, write off every war reference.
Just a friendly comment.

Skarn Ka
QUOTE (Nikoli)
the american people don't like it when a nation who claims to be an ally makes shady deals with someone funding attacks directly or indirectly.


What do you mean there ? France funfing Al-Quaeda ?!
Nath
QUOTE (JongWK @ Mar 12 2004, 12:10 AM)
AFAIK, the Shadowrun timeline diverges from the 1980s and onwards.

It could be as much as 1977. That year the British Aerospace Company (BAE) and Hawker-Siddeley merged to become British Aerospace (BAe). There are references to BAC and Hawker-Siddeley in vehicles lists (including the BAC-Dassault-MMB EFA Variants), even if SOTA:2063 also mentionned BAE...

Well, of course, you could also argue several key NPCs of SR early timeline like Dniel Coleman aren't born. And, in fact, the dwarf kingdom of Throal didn't exist indifferent.gif
Austere Emancipator
And if you consider ED history to be SR history, then the two universes diverged about 13.7 billion years ago.
Nikoli
QUOTE (Skarn Ka)
QUOTE (Nikoli @ Mar 11 2004, 06:46 PM)
the american people don't like it when a nation who claims to be an ally makes shady deals with someone funding attacks directly or indirectly.


What do you mean there ? France funfing Al-Quaeda ?!

No, I meant France buying oil from Iraq while it was under the trade embargo imposed by the UN
Aristotle
Just a friendly reminder (as I'm sure we all see how close this is or could be to the line) that we need to keep this discussion on Shadowrun and how the events affect Shadowrun. Don't get off-topic, even "just to say one thing quick", or the topic will have to be shut down.
Nikoli
Good point, and my apologies to my fellow Dumpshockers for continuing it.

And, back the the SR timeline, IIRC there were many more terrorist attacks that happened after 2001. It is conceivable that by the time we catch up to the 2060's the painful memory of the WTC attacks has faded and not seen as such a traumatizing event when compared to many other events. It is still remembered but more likely it is by either the Octogenarians that were there or the younger historians.
Aristotle
I'd have to say that, if you choose to incoproate the attacks into your Shadowrun history, it would be remembered but there would be so many "fresher" events that much of the sting would be gone.

Goblinization, VITAS, the war with the Amerindians, etc..
Nath
QUOTE (Aristotle)
I'd have to say that, if you choose to incoproate the attacks into your Shadowrun history, it would be remembered but there would be so many "fresher" events that much of the sting would be gone.

Goblinization, VITAS, the war with the Amerindians, etc..

... and Sears Tower bombing. 26,000 victims according to NAGNA.
snowRaven
QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)
And if you consider ED history to be SR history, then the two universes diverged about 13.7 billion years ago.

And what if you consider ED history to be OUR rl history? grinbig.gif
John Campbell
QUOTE (snowRaven)
QUOTE (Austere Emancipator @ Mar 12 2004, 01:35 AM)
And if you consider ED history to be SR history, then the two universes diverged about 13.7 billion years ago.

And what if you consider ED history to be OUR rl history? grinbig.gif

Then you should probably see a professional about your inability to distinguish between reality and fiction.
Skarn Ka
QUOTE (Nikoli)
It is conceivable that by the time we catch up to the 2060's the painful memory of the WTC attacks has faded and not seen as such a traumatizing event when compared to many other events.


I agree. And in fact the reference in DidS2 IS an historic reference: the shadowposter explains that back in the first years of the 21st century, the German authorities in SR had considered they were going to be far more reluctant to grant corps the right to build tall towers; a decision that seems to have been carried on, at least in SR Germany, since it's written that the '62 skyline is very similar to that of '01.
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