Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Car Jacking
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
klinktastic
I was wondering what the preferred car jacking approach is? I was thinking that the smartest thing would be to identify the car you want to jack, follow it, while sniffering signals between the car and owner's commlink. Once you've obtained the commcodes, you probe the target and edit your commcodes in inplace of the owners. Then you remote control the car to a chop shop and tag erase, clear out any linkages to the former owner, and paint it a new color. Thoughts? Is there a better way?
CanRay
Depends on what you want to do with the car.

Personally, I'd hack it, drive it around in Spoofed mode, filling the trunk up with something nice and illegal, putting it back, then dropping a dime on the owner would be one hell of a fun way of getting someone in deep trouble.

But if you're talking about owning/selling it... Yeah, that sounds about right.
Yerameyahu
AFAIK, you can just scan for nodes, hack, done. *shrug*
KarmaInferno
Wasn't there shadowtalk in the books about some hacker gangs making a sport out of hijacking people's cars while they are in motion and racing them, with the terrified car owners as unwilling passengers?





-k
klinktastic
So when a car is "turned off" its actually still on, but running as a hidden node? I guess, would there be a benefit to knowing the admin access codes and passwords? Assuming that info is encrypted, a small time decrypting it could make your life easier. Shit, the firewall might not even get an analyze test. Would it be easier to sniffer and spoof, get it into a jamming zone, then hack it? Then it couldn't send a distress signal if it detects the hacker?
Yerameyahu
Yup. Hackers run the world. The node would have to be on, so that your keyless entry works. smile.gif (I realize, not literally.)

It's true that having the valid credentials/codes/etc. would be even easier, but most cars would be easy to take in seconds.
klinktastic
I guess I should add, I'm in a street level game, 320 BPs and we just finished our first run. Now that we're gonna be running full time, I figured since I'm the rigger, wheelman, and hacker....as well as go ganger, I should probably provide group transportation, as well as transport for my dalmation and nissan roto-drone. Just wondering what the best way to about obtaining one in the most realistic manner possible.

I'm a program 3, cracking group 1, going to specialize in exploit and sniffer, with PuSHeD and Math CPU and can go Hot Sim for additional dice. Obviously not worlds best hacker, so I need something that minimizes my risks.
CanRay
If your car is attached to GridGuide, then it doesn't even matter if it's transmitting or receiving or anything, you can hack it through that system.

A bit harder than getting through a car's crappy security, but GG is swiss cheese according to ShadowTalk.
hermit
Just hard encrypt the car for 24 hours, and all on-the-fly hacking is rendered futile. Oh, removing your car's nonsensical wireless and driving a combustion vehicle also helps.
Ascalaphus
Well, there are advantages to having a wireless piloted car. You can snap your fingers to have that care come pick you up; that's hugely convenient. And all you need to do is plug the huge security holes.
hermit
QUOTE
Well, there are advantages to having a wireless piloted car. You can snap your fingers to have that care come pick you up; that's hugely convenient. And all you need to do is plug the huge security holes.

Patch SR4's security holes? That's impossible by RAW. And yeah, you can have your car drive to you, but you don't need to wirelessly conect all the car parts that way (which is nonsensical anyway since the car's interior isn't very well suited for radio transmissions and jamming will make your car die).

Just remove that crap and hardwire your car to a decent all-6 hard encrypted, high-security commlink for all your wireless communications needs.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (klinktastic @ Jan 9 2011, 05:18 AM) *
Thoughts?

Rating 2 Jammer to supress the RFIDs but not the car (or anyone else) until you are done.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (hermit @ Jan 9 2011, 11:31 AM) *
[…] driving a combustion vehicle also helps.

Not really, those are completely electronically controlled even today.

And of course, since Recharge, there is no point anymore, at all. There are no fuel stations in the outdoors, just conjurers on duty.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (hermit @ Jan 9 2011, 04:36 AM) *
Patch SR4's security holes? That's impossible by RAW. And yeah, you can have your car drive to you, but you don't need to wirelessly conect all the car parts that way (which is nonsensical anyway since the car's interior isn't very well suited for radio transmissions and jamming will make your car die).

Just remove that crap and hardwire your car to a decent all-6 hard encrypted, high-security commlink for all your wireless communications needs.


Not all that hard to patch the holes, really... Definitely not "Impossible by RAW" as you make it out to be... The only drawback is that it could more than double (or even triple) the price of the car to patch the holes effectively, depending upon what process you used. Simply applying Strong Encryption will usually do the trick (Most thieves will not spend hours trying to break into a vehicle, tehy will go for the easy marks instead). It all really depends upon how difficult a task you want the intrusion to be.

Most people do not go to the trouble to harden their vehicles, because of the price involved. That is a much bigger difference than it being impossible to accomplish.
hermit
QUOTE
Not really, those are completely electronically controlled even today.

But they do not depend on GridGuide to power themselves and hence can be cut off and run as a closed system. Barring Neomancers with the hack anything on touch skill, it's impossible to hack then.

QUOTE
And of course, since Recharge, there is no point anymore, at all. There are no fuel stations in the outdoors, just conjurers on duty.

Yeah, fair enough.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (hermit @ Jan 9 2011, 06:02 PM) *
But they do not depend on GridGuide to power themselves […]

They all rely on GridGuide for to realtime traffic data and routing, by WiFi access.
GridLink, is an optional modification that can be added to any vehicle, electric, fuel-cell or combustion – since the latter are hybrids. Aside from drawing power, it allows also for communication, similar to SkinLink.

By default, electric vehicles don't feature it – and since they have the exact same performance, range and handling time of their combustion counterpart in SR, there is no point not getting one. In fact, with a roll-up solar tarp in the trunk (even standard car paint has basic photovoltaic properties in SR4), you are better off even in the countryside when the Recharge mage has his day off. Of course, War! never would bother to stat or even feature such a useless item like that – magic is better anyway.
hermit
QUOTE
They all rely on GridGuide for to realtime traffic data and routing, by WiFi access.

which can be done via a commlink that's not connected to the operational parts of the car, can it? It's not like a poilot system suddenly dis unable to function independently anymore. But you're right, it's probably illegal.

QUOTE
Of course, War! never would bother to stat or even feature such a useless item like that magic is better anyway.

It's so easy to write. No thinking required why it works as it does. And you need no research.
klinktastic
Ok, so if one of you was GM'ing a game, the hacker wanted to steal a van for future use in the campaign. What kind of roles would you required to hack it?
Ascalaphus
The hacking isn't so hard - civilian cars would have a device rating of 3.

As far as I know however, there aren't any rules to turn your hacked account into a "legitimate" account, thereby permanently changing the legitimate owner of the car's system. You might want to rip out the old node and put in your own chipset.

And don't forget to kill the old RFIDs, put in your own to prove you're the "owner", and get fake papers/deeds/licenses for the car.
Squiddy Attack
QUOTE (klinktastic @ Jan 9 2011, 12:01 PM) *
Ok, so if one of you was GM'ing a game, the hacker wanted to steal a van for future use in the campaign. What kind of roles would you required to hack it?


Exploit, Control Device, and spoofing. Unless you've got the owner's access ID; then you can just spoof commands.
klinktastic
QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Jan 9 2011, 02:14 PM) *
The hacking isn't so hard - civilian cars would have a device rating of 3.

As far as I know however, there aren't any rules to turn your hacked account into a "legitimate" account, thereby permanently changing the legitimate owner of the car's system. You might want to rip out the old node and put in your own chipset.

And don't forget to kill the old RFIDs, put in your own to prove you're the "owner", and get fake papers/deeds/licenses for the car.


How much would replacing the node be? Say I have access to a go ganger's chop shop. It won't be free, but I can get it done for me.
Yerameyahu
I mean, get the price of a 3/3 commlink + Pilot, Firewall, etc.
hermit
Build it from DIY components and you save money.
klinktastic
Seems like you could just get into the admin account after you've stolen and decrypted the owner's commcodes and passcodes. Then you could just edit the shit of out of that admin account and replace it with your info. Obviously wipe it down with a TAG eraser, plant your own TAGs on it. Get some licenses for it. Shit, hunt down the VIN, edit the data trail that the car was bought by you, not the original owner. Wouldn't that be easier? Or well at least cheaper.
Squiddy Attack
Of course, you can also get into the admin account without stealing the owner's codes. smile.gif
klinktastic
I thought hacking allows you to create another admin account, not get into the one that's there already.
CanRay
OK, I got it.

What you do is you put the pneumatic jack under the axle of the car, and use the jack handle to pump it up and...

Oh, wrong kind of jacking, right?
klinktastic
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jan 9 2011, 07:00 PM) *
OK, I got it.

What you do is you put the pneumatic jack under the axle of the car, and use the jack handle to pump it up and...

Oh, wrong kind of jacking, right?


What a waste of my time....
Manunancy
The topic reminds me of a question I once asked to a player as a GM when he was looking for car :
'do you want a car, a car with papers or a car with the papers'. Each meant increasing price for the exact same car , but the first means 'stolen without any paperzs', the second 'stolen with fake papers' and the third a nice legal buy with the paperwork in order.
Eratosthenes
Converting a stolen car into something driveable without getting nabbed immediately by the police:

1) Hack the car's node and take over/spoof the owner's ID to drive it where you want
2) Shut down the car's wireless capabilities! You don't want it accessible from the real owner/police while making the changes.
3) Erase all tags. Replace with Spoof Tags and Morphing Plates (Arsenal pg. 105).
4) Erase all users/change all passcodes on the car's device node to what you want.
5) Spoof the car's device ID to a new access ID.
6) Obtain a fake liscense and registration for the car's new Access ID before taking it anywhere public.
7) Give it a fresh paint job, or coat it in Ruthenium polymers.

I might've missed a step or two. YMMV depending on the GM.

Preventing your ride from being stolen:

1) Strong Encryption (24 hours) on the device node.
2) See 1.
3) Seriously, see 1. Change it weekly, monthly, whatever's feasible.
4) Upgrade the Firewall, as a backup.
5) If you want, slave it to your commlink, via an encrypted communications channel.
6) Buy an Anti-Theft system to prevent physical breaches.

As for a jammer shutting down a car, I see no reason the car would cease running if jammed. There's no reason the electronic car parts wouldn't be wired together (as opposed to wireless). They may have some wireless funcationality for diagnostics, but I'd not think they'd interact amongst themselves wirelessly, exclusively for this reason. Besides, an electric engine may very well preclude any sort of short-range wireless communication within itself while it's running.

It would lose connection to gridlink/guide, though. And that may very well confuse a car's autopilot.
klinktastic
Thank you Eratosthenes, that makes complete sense. I'll have to check up on the rules to see how long that will all take, give me an idea what the timing involved. I might have to rent a van for our next run, but my inter-mission time between the next run will include stealing and doctoring up a van for our team.
J. Packer
If you can't trust Eratosthenes, who can you trust?

Mathematician, elegiac poet, athlete, geographer, astronomer, music theorist, and booster of cars.
Yerameyahu
For completeness: any vehicle with a Pilot rating can drive itself without GridGuide. They just might not know where to go, or have such a low DP that they fail tests. smile.gif
klinktastic
QUOTE (Eratosthenes @ Jan 10 2011, 12:34 PM) *
Converting a stolen car into something driveable without getting nabbed immediately by the police:

4) Erase all users/change all passcodes on the car's device node to what you want.
5) Spoof the car's device ID to a new access ID.


Say you sniffered and spoofed the car to your shop. You tossed on the jammer and erased the tags. At this point, would you have to hack the car via a direct link? Would it make more sense to hack on the fly to create an admin account so you can perform 4 and 5 by just editting the contents with a Computer + Edit roll? Since it's jammed, it can't send a signal to the owner. Worst case, the car is programed to reboot, so you might get hit with some dumpshock off the reboot. Most common car owners arent loading it with an IC program. But yeah, once you've got the admin account, its just going to be a series of extended edit rolls, which you'd have to actually roll, since the GM might mess with you if you glitched. That make sense?
Eratosthenes
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jan 10 2011, 03:06 PM) *
For completeness: any vehicle with a Pilot rating can drive itself without GridGuide. They just might not know where to go, or have such a low DP that they fail tests. smile.gif


Correct. But a Pilot that suddenly loses GridGuide might become confused if it couldn't re-establish connection. Dog brain and all. It might request further instruction from the driver (if present). Basically it'd be up to the GM, given the current environ. Or it might do just fine, continuing on its route.

Those Pilot 1 cars really are pretty terrible drivers. biggrin.gif

Klinktastic: at some point you'll need to either hack into the car's node, or replace it wholesale. Replacing would be an extended Hardware test. Hacking in would be normal hacking rules. As you said, on-the-fly shouldn't be too dangerous, and most hackers worth their salt should be able to handle a rating 3 device. Probing would be safer, especially if you're going for an admin account. Even if you get detected, and the device shuts down, you should have time to logout/change modes to avoid being dumped.

Once an admin, I'd say just make it a Computer+Edit extended test to reformat. Shouldn't be too difficult.

All of this could and should really be simplified to a couple simple rolls, seeing as the risk isn't all that great once the car's been isolated and off the street. Maybe a Hacking+Exploit (3), Computer+Edit(1) to reformat, or a Logic+Hardware (3) to replace the device (plus device costs).

Eratosthenes was a Renaissance man before the Renaissance, man! biggrin.gif
Aku
now, if you try to do it while the vehicle is moving...
Yerameyahu
I certainly wouldn't have it crash the car or anything (beyond the basic fact that such a vehicle could never be road-approved). As I said, without GridGuide it might not know where to go (=='confused').
Aku
What if you failed miserably at hacking it, and caused it to reboot?
Yerameyahu
That's two questions, because making it reboot could well be a successful hack. smile.gif If it rebooted for whatever reason, no, the autopilot is not functional during that process, heh. The driver would take over in most circumstances, and wonder what's wrong with his damn car.
hermit
QUOTE
There's no reason the electronic car parts wouldn't be wired together (as opposed to wireless). (...) Besides, an electric engine may very well preclude any sort of short-range wireless communication within itself while it's running.

Yes, this makes no sense, but the base rules state it like that.

Yerameyahu
Do they?
klinktastic
Here's a detailed, roll by roll of how to hack n jack a car in SR4. Check it, see if you think it's pretty accurate.

Hacking and Stealing a Car

1. Either one of two methods:
a. Sniffer: Ewar + Sniffer (threshold 3) to record encrypted commands
b. Decrypt: Ewar + Decrypt (Encryption*2, 1 Combat Turn), approx 3 combat turns
c. Spoof: Opposed Test: Hacking + Spoof (7 dice) vs Pilot + Firewall (5 dice), couple IPs

2. Jam Use rating 6 jammer, 1 IP
3. Erase Tags use Tag Eraser, 5 minutes

4 Obtain Admin Account Level Access (couple of minutes to a couple of hours)

4a. Probe target in VR Hacking + Exploit (threshold (firewall*2+6 for admin access), system gets 1 chance to detect System + Firewall (threshold 3 [stealth rating]) takes an hour per roll, 6 hours approx.

4b. Hack on Fly Hacking + Exploit [threshold (firewall+6 for Admin access)] vs System + Firewall (threshold 3 [stealth rating]), 1 complex action, extended opposed test

5. Erase Old User info, Add New User Info Computer + Edit (threshold 20-40, 1 complex action)

6. Place Spoof Tags and potentially a morphing plate

7. Obtain fake license (which would include edits of the data trail of purchase of said vehicle, etc)
klinktastic
Seriously no thoughts? I figure this would get eaten alive. Must have it right.
sabs
Actually you have probe in ar wrong
The interval for probe in AR is 1 day, not 1 hour.

probe in vr is 1 hour.
klinktastic
QUOTE (sabs @ Jan 11 2011, 11:35 AM) *
Actually you have probe in ar wrong
The interval for probe in AR is 1 day, not 1 hour.

probe in vr is 1 hour.


Good catch. That was a typo. Changed from AR to VR. Who probes in AR?
sabs
QUOTE (klinktastic @ Jan 11 2011, 05:49 PM) *
Good catch. That was a typo. Changed from AR to VR. Who probes in AR?


Lazy people who probe while driving cross country.

Yerameyahu
I mean, the Pilot can drive cross-country. That's the easiest driving there is. smile.gif Hell, you could probably do it with the -6 VR penalty, even if we're assuming the car has only manual controls and/or you have no free VR IPs.
klinktastic
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jan 11 2011, 01:02 PM) *
I mean, the Pilot can drive cross-country. That's the easiest driving there is. smile.gif Hell, you could probably do it with the -6 VR penalty, even if we're assuming the car has only manual controls and/or you have no free VR IPs.


Better have a satellite link. Suck to get dropped from the matrix.
Yerameyahu
I mean, it would interrupt your slow-hack, but it wouldn't affect the driving at all. smile.gif
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012