This car is fast (it lapped Nordschleife in under 3'30") and pretty (to my eyes) and I want one.

Is there anything comparable in Shadowrun, specifically 4th edition?

I'm pretty sure the G-forces on those turns would kill you.

It's supposed to do 8G (according to the article in EVO Magazine) which is doable...with a G suit on and a high level of physical fitness.

Bloody Hell!!! That thing only drops below 200 MPH on the really tight corners, and it took the hairpin at over 100 MPH... that is just wrong on so many levels.

I fixed that for you.

But seriously, any cars like this in Shadowrun? If not, any guesses as to its stats? It'll do 500kph, 0-100 (kph mind) in 1.4 seconds, and a maximum of 8.25 Gs in cornering.

Theoretically (With GM approval and ...Whats Gesunder Menschenverstand in English again?)
any car can do that .The written max Speed is only the save High Speed .After that you have to ....
Roll for control (my english gets worse & worser).
There are no Rules for .....Maximum performance.

JahtaHey
Medicineman

Though from a shadworunner's point of view, that thing is next to useless : worthless on the sort of ruined roads (when there are roads) you find around a hideout in the barrens, no cargo space, no armor and a rather flimsy structure. It's also a strict one-seater that can't be fitted for a troll-sized driver without a redesign... It's also bloody expensive anfd extremely conspicuous.
That sort of thins is either a trophy car or a toy for the filthy rich.

But I grant you that to explode your personnal record on a circuit you'll be hard-pressed to find better. If your pockets are deep enough of course.

There was a Ferrari F1 racer in "Rigger 3".

Wie gehts es ihnen? Sorry I'm taking German and had to apply what little I know, haha.


And this thing is ridiculous, If you wanted to make it just throw out some number for accel, and give it a +10 to control or something.

"Common Sense."

Also, MedicineMan, I didn't know English wasn't your first language.

I feel the need to point out that everything the Red Bull X1 can do is amazing, within the following context: it does not actually exist.

Yes, it looks amazing. Yes, the 'specs' such as they are, are also amazing. And yes, it's entirely digital. It's theory. It's a whitepaper for what people think they might be able to get away with if they built it and they didn't discover anything unexpected. Also, they don't know what they'd make the tires od so you don't have to replace them every 10 minutes. But until they actually build one, I'm not that impressed.

(Sorry, that's my standard disclaimer every time someone brings up the X1.)

Yeah, it's not exactly practical, but the idea of a runner who runs in part to fuel a street racing habit sounds like fun to me. And my GM has informed me that I-25, C470, I-70, and various other roads are still in ok shape (we run in Denver) so the concept works.


Oh yeah, it's only a clay model and pixels, but we're playing a pen and paper roleplaying game with magic and whole-head-and/or-torso-replacement-cybernetics. I'm sure that the tires could be made with 6th world tech.

Honestly if the damn thing were even possible it would need smart tires, because at those speeds a fairly small rock in the road would be enough to flip the car without tires that could essentially ignore the rock.

Edit: Double Post, too tired to be posting apparently

I suspect the car produces more downforce than it weighs, so I find this claim to be somewhat extreme. But do they have smart tires in Shadowrun? I know they did in Snow Crash, where even high end skateboards had smartwheels, but I haven't seen them in SR4 (though I haven't yet looked for them specifically).

Smart Tires are in Arsenal (pg 106)

Cool, thanks.

You know the really funny thing. This car has actually been made for real. I came across an article about it a couple of weeks ago.

http://eu.gran-turismo.com/gb/news/d14918.html


With this proposal from Mr. Newey, the machine was transformed with a large fan added to the rear end of the body. With additional advice regarding the shapes of the front and rear wings and rear diffuser, its aerodynamics became even further refined. As a result, the Red Bull X2010 Prototype attained an astonishing level of performance, reaching a top speed of over 450km/h, with a maximum lateral acceleration reaching up to 8.75G. This is a performance level that is at the very limits of what a normal human body can withstand.

The driver who performed the shakedown test of the machine in Gran Turismo 5, was the world famous Sebastian Vettel. In his very first run on the Suzuka Circuit, he shortened the record time of the course by over 20 seconds. And in the test drive on the Nurburgring GP Course, he marked a record time of 1 minute 4 seconds, drawing out the incredible potential of the Red Bull X2010 Prototype.

0-60mph: 1.4sec
0-120mph: 2.8sec
0-200mph: 6.1sec
Maximum Speed: Over 280mph (450km/h+)
Maximum Longitudinal or Lateral Acceleration: 8.25G at 300km/h

No, they haven't made it for real. That article you've linked is about the digital X1 Prototype featured in Gran Turismo 5, and using the telemetry data they recieve out of the game. It's not a real car. Polyphony Digital and Red Bull have been *incredibly* bad about differentiating when they are talking about a real car and the digital car, because they deliberately want you to think they're talking about some kind of physical vehicle that drives that fast. There isn't. There IS a real X1 body, but it doesn't actually drive - it's just the frame. See here:
Shots of the X1 Prototype Frame

I'm sorry, but the X1 is absolutely 100% fantasy at this point in time. If it did exist, though, and did work the way they hoped, it would definitely be possible to have it generate enough downforce not to worry about rocks. The problem with the rocks, at that point, is tearing holes in your tires - not flipping.

Here is the rub. A Eurocar WW3k, with no mods and racing tires, will pulls turns like that going nearly 200mph with no penalties and reach a top speed that is limited by the GM. Granted it's 0-60mph time is ~2.8 seconds flat for an decent driver (reflex + pilot ground = 7) and race tires, but you can fix that.

A Eurocar WW3k with racing tires, engine customization: speed, engine customization: acceleration, improved suspension, and turbo charger 4 (up from the stock 1) on the other hand is a completely different animal. It can make the crazy turns while sticking at ~237.5mph (its max "safe" speed with no handling penalties), do 0-60mph in 1.75 seconds and 0-100mph in 2.92 seconds, while responding like something shown in that video. Top speed is the GM's call. I go with +25% over safe speed in my game, which would be pushing awful close to 300mph. You never know, your GM might let you go +50% or even +100% (~356mph and ~475mph).

As far Smart Tires, you don't want them on a speed demon. They knock safe speed and acceleration with a -20%, while Racing Tires net you a +10%. Smart Tires are really best for off road/go anywhere vehicles.

One final note. The Erocar WW3k is listed as a luxury sport car in Shadowrun. It is not a super car, it is not an exotic. If this is the performance you can get from a modded car in the class of the Porsche Boxster & Cayman, Chevrolet Corvette, BMW Z4, Audi TT, Lotus Elise & Exige, and MB SLK, then imagine with a 2070 Ferrari can do.

Where can I find this Eurocar WW3k? And is there something with better performance already? Someone mentioned a Ferrari F1 car in Rigger 3, but I don't have that book.

Eurocar Westwind 3000 is in Core.
Actually, Arsenal has some street-racing class cars, too.

So just up the stats a bit, and there you go.

I'll check those out, thanks.

Go to your link. Look at the pictures. Find the one labeled "Sebastian Vettel driving the Red Bull X2010 Prototype on the Nürburgring GP course."

OK. Fair enough. I got suckered in by that article (and another one I originally read, and which claimed that this car was real...). However, if the car in the video (from the 3 min. mark) at the top of the page I link to isn't real, then I have to say that I'm very impressed with the graphics...

You are very impressed with the graphics. That said, they've built a rolling body version of the car - it can't drive anywhere, let alone anywhere near as fast, but it can sit around and look pretty.

Be very impressed, then. Gran Turismo 5 has some pretty hot shit graphics, and that's what you're seeing. Check out this comparison of GT5's Nordschliefe segment of the Nurburgring vs how it looks in the real world: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Mi_xKz3WLw...player_embedded

Make sure you watch it in 720p. It's pretty eye-popping.

Ok, I knew they were talking about some seriously hot graphics for GT5, but that is just spectacular.

If i could find the old pdf document, i would show you how it was done under SR3 rules.
they had an official document on one of the official shadowrun pages somewhere with the errata files where they had built a car according to the rules that cracked mach 1 . .

Anybody still know what the name of the document was and/or where to get it? i'm trying to find it, but i'm failing <.<

I think the true supercars of Shadowrun will be a magic/tech hybrid, with cutting edge tech combined with mage-summoned spirits to provide Movement and Guard support. Really, if you can afford 1-2 million nuyen worth of car, what's a couple of grand per session hiring some magic 2-3 wagemage to whistle up a spirit for you?

Sure, it's more of a service than an feature, but it's no different than using special fuel instead of normal high-test.

But spellcasting is banned during sports competitions.
So I guess it could be a premium service for the muscle car owners for when they just want to have a ride.

As i said, it could be done with the SR3 rules.
Super Sonic Car.
I just can't find the damn file <.<

Ok, so I'm statting one of these out for the Go-Ganger game I'm going to play in, using EVO's stats for the vehicle and InfinityzeN's vehicle update rules. They come out to something like:

Car: Red Bull X1 Prototype
Handling: +3
Acceleration: 25/155
Speed: 400 kph
Pilot: 2
Body: 8
Armor: 10
Sensor: 2
Availability: 8R
Cost: 150,000

This assumes a 0-100kph of 1.4s, a top speed (unmodified) of 428 kph, the fact that this is supposed to be a de-regulated F1 car and would therefore have an ok Pilot and good Sensor, that an F1 car would have serious safety capabilities and would therefore have decent Body and Armor, and I flat out guessed for Availability and Cost. Does this seem reasonable? Keep in mind, it would be modifiable to reach 500 flat out (with a "Speed" stat of 470), or maybe more, since this is the future we're talking about. So what do you think? How many modification slots should it come with? What should its standard mods be? Also, I'm not sure about having the Handling be just a +3 - this is a pretty serious car we're talking about, I mean, it lapped Nordschleife in 3'29", and that's a rather curvy course. Also, this car would have the ability to stick to the ceiling while stationary, as long as the fan is going full tilt (the car weighs 615kg and the fan produces some 1000kg downforce), though good luck finding a road that goes upside down.

Looks OK, but I'd probably add another "0" to the price. These things are not likely to be made in great numbers, and frankly, they are not really all that practical on the streets. Also, I don't think I'd allow for any other types of modifications, than Engine and Wheel mods, and possibly something that could fit inside the body, without disrupting the airflow over the car in any way. Add any mods that screw with that, and I'd penalize the handling and speed. Also, if this car is really build over F1 principles, then it won't be armoured at all. Rather, it'll be designed to disintegrate on impact, destroying the car, but keeping the driver alive.

To get this kind of acceleration you need to shave weight everywhere you can, so no armor but Passenger Protection and maybe a bit of Personnal Armor sound more par for the course than armor.

Also keep in mind that to be able to be driven at that kind of speed it will need a good road with a clean surface, because things like gravel, potholes, oil slicks or garbage on the road would litterally be lethal.

If you plan to regularly drive through gangland something like the Hotspur may be a better choice - it is designed to handle the worst terrain and can actually carry some cargo.

Here is my take on an actual F1 car in 2070. This is after thinking on my original post all day and is the final edit. The car can not be modified

Car: Team Red Bull F1
Handling: +6*
Acceleration: 60/165
Speed: 420 (315 mph / 504 kph) max speed = safe speed
[Without Racing Tires/For driving in rain= Speed: 392 (294 mph / 470 kph)]
Pilot: 1
Body: 8
Armor: 2
Sensor: 3
Availability: 24R
Cost: $2,450,000

Factory Mods: Ejection Seat, Drive-by-Wire only, Engine Customization: Speed, Engine Customization: Acceleration, Improved Suspension, Passenger Protection 6, Pimped Ride 2**, Race Car***, Turbo Charger 4, Unstable Structural Agility
Factory Equipment: Racing Tires

* From Unstable Structural Agility. Handling changes to -1 if anything compromises the system.
** Not actually pimped, but very distinctive.
*** Increases Speed and Acceleration by +20%, Max Speed = safe speed, allows Unstable Structural Agility (must also buy Improved Suspension, but get no bonus from it), Treat as having Pimped Ride 1 (2 if also Unstable Structural Agility), increases final cost by X10

So what can this car do? Well first lets get our top F1 Driver, "Dangerous" Dan Speed. He has Reflexes 8 (12) [Exceptional Reflexes, Gene Op Reflexes, Reaction Enhancers 3, Suprathyroid Gland], Pilot Ground (Wheeled): 7 (9) [Aptitude], and 7 dice from bonuses [Augmented Reality, Handling +6] which gives him a whopping 28 dice in this car. On top of that he has Edge 7 since racing is a lot of luck. Although he has Gearhead for F1 Cars, we're going to leave that out for now.

He'll can take 7 in non-stressful situations, roll an average of a little over 9 successes, and throw 35* with Edge. These are his normal performance, pushing it performance, and pushing it hard performance numbers. I'll list the results as "Take 7/Roll 9.33/Edge 13.61"

For his acceleration, first lets look at 0-100 kph. It will take him 1.25 seconds to hit that normally, 1.181 seconds pushing it, and 1.073 seconds giving it everything he has. That's some pretty crazy numbers right there.
Lets flip that around and look at 100-0 kph. It will take him 0.962 seconds to stop normally, 0.92 if pushing it, and 0.853 seconds giving it his all.

Alright, we're talking crazy fast, how about 0-504 kph? Well it will take him 6.3 seconds normally, 5.953 seconds pushing it, and 5.407 seconds working his all out magic.
So we get to ludicrous speed fast, how about 504-0 kph? Welp, those numbers are 4.846 seconds, 4.638 seconds, and 4.299 seconds.

Well, things are looking crazy. Lets do 0-504-0 kph shall we? Numbers are 11.152 seconds, 10.597 seconds, and 9.776 seconds.

Run a 1/4 mile? 4.012 seconds @ 321 kph, 3.901 seconds @ 330 kph, and 3.726 seconds @ 347 kph.

That sounds about right, save for the Unstable Structural Agility. I'm not sure that sort of engineering is possible in cars, due to their limited degrees of freedom compared to an aircraft. But I'm assuming you're meaning something along the lines of relaxed stability or negative stability in aircraft, if you mean something else then it may be entirely viable. Also, I'd like for the car to be modifiable, but that's just me.

I used that name because that is what is in the book. The meaning though is that the entire car is made up of smart materials that shift and change to constantly effect the cars aerodynamic characteristics (flow patterns, velocity field, streamline evolutions, downforce, lift, drag, etc) on all the different parts of the car. Trying to stop? Body shifts to produce massive drag and downforce in the rear, while reducing the front downforce to almost nothing, opening ports in the front to let air in while nearly closing those in the rear to create a parachute effect, etc. You can actually make the car slip side to side without turning the wheel.

Because the entire car is made up of smart materials that shift and move to change aerodynamic characteristics, if the computer system that controls them goes down you never know what might happen. It might be stuck in "Emergency Brake" while your doing "Maximum Acceleration" which would most likely result in the front end lifting and the car suddenly going airborne.

Ah, I see. Well, that makes sense then. But what could cause it to malfunction? It obviously couldn't be wireless (they wouldn't want teams interfering with the operation of the vehicle during a race) so it wouldn't be susceptible to hacking (unless you jack in directly) so what sort of damage, and how much, are we talking to cause this feature to malfunction?

Actually in the description of USA (tired of writing that out), the thing listed to mess it up was hacking. Kinda why I made the car not wireless, since yea hacking during a race would be bad. Of course the GM could always have damage effect that system, the same as anything else.

Alright, cool. I may just be using that in my upcoming game (assuming the GM lets me find one!).

EMP weapons (even if the controlling system is optical chips, it's power supply is still electricity and cables and can be affected), a critical glitch, things like that.

That seems reasonable. Thanks for the input.

Oh, by the way, while we're on EMP. The fiction in Running Wild has runners using several EMP grenades (?) against a juggernaut (and, of course, disabling their equipment and dying). Now, could anyone please give me any idea why would they try such a thing?

Technically, your Brain uses electricity to control your body too.
So theoretically, EMP can be used as a means of messing with the Brain.

Yeah, theoretically, Sun, being a ball of plasma, can be controlled with magnetic fields. However, realistically, we're not producing fields of that magnitude by a wide margin.
Same here - yeah, theoretically, many things can be done, but is EMP grenades' influence on living targets even mentioned anywhere else, much less statted in the rules?

dunno, but i don't think i've ever seen something like it . .
precedent could be electroshock therapy and research of magnetic field affecting the brain.

Yeah, but both of those are much more targeted than an EMP grenade would be, methinks. I dunno, maybe they were just stupid, or suicidal?

Well, they had a tacnet, so they were at least basically professional.
So either they were suicidal, or the author of the fiction had no idea how EMP works.
I really can't see any other options here.

Don't forget that EM is absorbed readily by water. There's a surprising amount of water between one's brain and the outside world. It's why cell phones aren't actually dangerous to your brain.