Wellp, the title about describes the question. My group is hunting ghouls, and the group's mage just learned Astral Barrier, and the group wants to know if they can throw it up and fire at ghouls with impunity. I told them the verdict is out until further notice. What do y'all think?

Do you mean Mana Barrier (I'm not familiar with an Astral Barrier spell)? If so, then yes. I can't think of any reason it wouldn't work. It's an invisible barrier on the physical plane (so no visibility modifiers caused because of it), and it stops dual natured beings (so it keeps the ghouls penned in just like you want), but it freely says it allows physical objects (which bullets are) through.

What's the issue?

By the very name alone I thought it was something strictly in the astral. Don't see anything wrong with normal bullets flying through it.

This depends entirely on whether it is a Physical or Mana type spell.

Yeah, crazy question. Of course they can shoot through. Poor ghouls.

....poor ghouls is right. This game just got a lot less difficult -.-

Being Dual-Natured sucked. I played a shapeshifter in a campaign and it was nothing but trouble. Wards are standard security measures damn near everywhere, and when a projecting mage hovers 10 feet above you and starts throwing mana bolts there is little you can do.

Except you're an eagle-shifter.

The dual natured rules in SR are even more poorly thought out than everything else. They just didn't think of what it really means.

For me Dual Natured has always been more of a weakness than a power...

-CJ

If a dual-natured creature could CHOOSE to turn it on and off, then yes, it would be an advantage.

As is, it's a liability.




-k

AK, to add some balance back in for your ghouls, remember they can attack the barrier (as dual-natured beings) using the Barrier rules (Core Anniversary, p.166). If its just one ghoul it might be difficult, but a group should be able to plow through it quickly.

If you are really having trouble creating a challenging environment, you can always have a ghoul mage hidden within LOS to counterspell it without drawing much attention. Even if it isn't completely taken down, it should weaken it enough for the ghouls to break through.

I just had the awesome image of watching this situation play out from astral. Thin membrane of glass like material surrounds the group as they retreat towards the cars, the troll has their script kid slung over a shoulder, popping shotgun shells behind him as he moves. while the ork fires an Ares Smartgun from the hip, backpedaling from the slobbering sons of bitches. Meanwhile an elf clad in eccentric clothes holds forth his arms to keep their last hope intact, pumping all he's got into this shield. But as they're fiendish blood red claws come smashing down on it, time after time fractures begin to pop up spreading like a spiderweb through the glass until finally... it shatters. "An easy job they said..."

...ghoul mages? I thought brains are what they eat not what they use.

BTW, since physical object block astral line of sight, a ghoul should be able to use a gun with iron sights.

Huh? They can already use guns, with no penalty from lighting, smoke, etc.

Not withscopes though. Glass is opaque on the astral and ghouls don't have mundane vision since they are blind. Cybereyes would work though.

That's true.

Oh wow... I never thought about this.
There have been a number of times where we have had mages astrally perceiving with some kind of protective eyewear. Chemsealed suits, underwater goggles, full helmets. I never considered that they wouldn't be able to astrally perceive!

That's an old, separate issue. Mages can astrally-perceive while wearing glasses; no, there's no reason for it, but it just works. There's no reason to even assume that astral sense comes from the eyes. Do a search for the thread about this, though.

Thanks Yerameyahu. I should have realized that anything that seemed surprising to me was probably beat to death somewhere on the forum.

It *is* surprising. Crazy rules.

Or just have a bunch of cybered up ghouls(simple cyber eyes is enough or even just a datajack) just calmly walk through the barrier and attack the surprised group in melee.