Hey guys, I've created this thread to start the preliminary discussions to get the ball rolling on this. Here's the blurb on what you need to know. Also, some of this has been lifted directly from J. Packer's Denver Missions Threads, so it might look familar. Also, this is invite only. So do not post here if your not going to be in the game. There is a potential slot in the air at the moment. If you fit the posting criteria, PM me.

Preface:
I tend towards an RP heavy game, but we will likely find a happy medium for all involved as the game progresses. When it comes time to award Karma, I will take roleplaying, interaction, and the like heavily into consideration – it can be worth up to 50% of the Karma award possible during any particular scenario.

Before you commit to playing, understand that I am somewhat hyperactive when it comes to online games, and you’ll see posts from me at all times of the day and night. I’m looking for a commitment from every player to post daily, at least, with the usual caveats about life getting in the way, holidays, family commitments and the like. Be looking for a couple of posts a day at least, with the exception of shit days at work or the aformentioned holidays and such.

Concept:
The concept of this game is a player driven, sandbox campaign, in which you (as a team) get to decide nearly everything. I will just arbitrate how. It’s going to be a ‘Yes, and” game, meaning pretty much nothing will be shot down, but I will explain how I think it would happen, then you can make a judgment based on that.

The core of the game is going to be more of an “empire building” RPG, where your team has been tasked by your organization, to take over some newly unoccupied territory. The gang that used to have the territory made too many enemies and had to consolidate, leaving a large stretch of territory to be had. Your gang (the PC gang), and many others (NPC gangs), will be attempting to take control of the region. There will be various other entities (criminal organization - NPC) operating in the territory as well, but not on a street gang level. While you will develop underlings, increase territory, sell goods, etc, those resources will not truly be available on a micro level for your control, only a macro level.

I envision the game will operate something like this, until we hit our stride. Every week will be broken up into two 3 day segments, with Sundays being off (in game time). Therefore you’ll have 8 segments per month. You guys can only work on one project per segment. For instance, say you want to boost membership. You would commit 3 days, do some RP, make some rolls, and at the end of the 3 days, you’ll get some members. Then the next segment, let’s say you want to add some smuggling, that will be a mission for you guys to develop some contacts and set it up. After its complete, you’ll have to assign X members to the task. That will then generate an additional revenue stream (almost like day job), per month. I will be creating a generic list of possible actions, costs (cash and bodies), and the revenue streams.

Campaign Decisions:
When thinking about the characters and organization and city, here are some guidelines:

City: I’d prefer to have you guys in either Seattle or Denver, your choice. Whatever you all think would be more interesting.

Organization: I want you guys to be gangers, be it go-gangers, street gangers, etc; it doesn’t matter to me. The more you pour into it, the more rewarding it will be. Think about what you guys will want to specialize in doing? Drugs, guns, prostitutes… its all good. You don’t have to limit yourself, but think of what they are most known for.

Characters: I’ve given some guidelines above, but here are some other things to consider. First, you’ll be working together. Attempt to synergize yourselves accordingly. You represent basically lieutenant level gangers in your organization. You will be the problem solvers.

PC Generation:
Also, I will be starting the game fairly low powered. These are the basics for you to consider while building a character:

•350 BP to start with – you’re street level or otherwise just getting into the shadows.

•No more than 190 BP into attributes, including the cost for your metatype – so we’re talking about 190 for a human, 160 for an elf, plus the 30 BP metatype cost, etc.

•You will be one of the five basic metatypes in the core rules. No metavariants, no spirits, AI, SURGE, HMHVV or the like.

•Spend no more than 25 BP on positive qualities, but you can take the full 35 points in negative qualities.

•Negative qualities must really be negative for you for them to be worth any points. If you’re a mage, don’t expect to get full points out of a quality that limits your cyberware – short form: make them truly negative, or I’ll be forced to veto them or reduce their value.

•Spend no more than 25 BP on gear, and while you can go to availability of 12, if an item is Restricted ® then the value may not exceed 9, and you may not start with any Forbidden (F) items at character generation. Restricted Gear quality will get you a single item of gear up to Availability 16/12R/4F, but any F gear will be difficult to explain in the extreme. Exceptions include Fake SINs and Fake Licenses, which can be purchased up to rating 3.

•You’ll have a communal living quarters, which will have one month prepaid.

•When buying skills, you may take one skill at level 5 or two at level 4, with all others topping out at level 3, including skill groups – you are, after all, gangers.

•You will start the game with the Made Man quality, to represent your status with your chosen organization, plus get 2x charisma for contacts.

•I will allow gear, spells, etc from the following resources, always subject to GM fiat in deciding to ban things on a case by case basis: Arsenal, Augmentation, Corporate Enclaves, Emergence, Feral Cities, Ghost Cartels, On The Run, Runner Havens, Runners Companion, Street Magic and Unwired, as well as the SR4A Core Rulebook.

So with that, start some prelim discussions about the city and gang style you'd like to play as. My goal is to get your creative juices flowing from a high level, and hopefully it will trickle down in the backgrounds and personalities of your PCs.

The list of stuff below is not exhaustive. Feel free to devise any plan or approach.

The Warrens:
Map = http://denver.wikidot.com/theme:the-warrens
Description of Each Location = http://denver.wikidot.com/theme:the-warrens-districts

City Blocks:
Each block requires 4 members to secure and hold as your gang’s territory. Earning you $500/week.

Each product line requires one member per block:
Prostitutes: $1500 per week (require no upfront work to establish)
Drugs/BTL: Depends on type - approx $2000 per week (type of drug determines effort to establish)
Wares: Limited to restricted or forbidden cyberwares - $ based on cost and volume – average $3,000 per week
Guns/Armor/Equipment: average to about $2500 per week (type determines effort to establish)

Host Black Market: Requires 10 members to run - $50,000 per week – harder to establish, helps gain reputation and faction


Projects:Recruitment – Develop a recruiting strategy, take prospects to membership by performing ritual. Number recruited varies with idea and successes. One segment
Establish Product line – depending on product line, might take 1 or 2 segments.
Engage in Diplomacy – boost standing with target organization, typically revolves around you doing something for them, typically one segment.
Take Turf - attack opposing gang to take their turf. Typically a multi-segment project. Lose faction with target, but earn street cred.
Defend Turf - an opposing gang has attacked your turf, you strike back -usually one segment, maybe more if you botch it.
Hit Enemy's Supply Chain - You disrupt opposing gang's supplies. Not an all out war, more of a hit and run, more covert. Possible spoils included.

Competing Gangs:
There are 3 gangs looking to add a of territory, but the others will be looking to add some as well.

Crimson Smoke – Sprawl Gang –Already located in the Warrens…looking to expand. http://denver.wikidot.com/theme:gangs-crimsonsmoke

Demons – Go Gang – No centralized HQ…until now. http://denver.wikidot.com/theme:gangs-demons

Surenos 13 – Mix of a Prison & Street Gang – fairly large, and looking to expand their secondary operations in the Warrens. http://denver.wikidot.com/theme:gangs-surenos13

Other Warren Gangs - http://denver.wikidot.com/index:warrens-gangs

Description of Gang Stats:

I'm torn on location. I live in the Denver area now, so that's familiar. But Seattle is just so iconic...

Both are awesome settings. I know both of them well enough to run the setting in them.

I could go either way.

I'd be happy not to have to deal wit the Ancients and the Killer Klowns.
I've always prefered my SR somewhere other than Seattle

we need to pick a gang type, and then figure out what everyone wants to play.

For help on the Gang type - Here was a post that cropped up yesterday that some posted some details stuff about how they did it. Should be a useful resource.

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...=34038&st=0

Sounds like Denver is going to be better than Seattle then.

I'm leaning against go-gang. Everyone has to have wheels if we're a go-gang, and that cuts into the starting cash pretty harshly. With a regular sprawl gang, we can have one guy with a pickup and call it good.

I like the idea of being the "real authority" for an area - so busting up other gangs, keeping the drugs and the beetles off our streets, policing the prostitution in the area and getting our cut, rackets and protection, gambling, smuggling, taking care of the little people...

Yup. go gangs can get expensive quick. But bikes can be bought for like 6k a crack, so its not horrible, just not uber efficient.

The sky is pretty much the limit for what you can do. Set up a blackmarket, manufacture drugs, sell drugs, extortion, whatever.

I am definitely pro Sprawl Gang, just want to hear from other players... Go Gangs can be fun, and everyone having a wheel isn't a big deal. Heck, if we all wanted to be go-gangers maybe Klink would let us all start with 2000 nuyen used, beat up, bikes, and people who wanted better could invest some of their juice into it.

But I'm okay with a Sprawl Gang who has territory and maybe doesn't even have a vehicle.

We can run numbers, protection, hooking, drugs, etc.

Or maybe we don't allow drugs, or certain types of drugs. Maybe we're okay with Flower, but not with Tempo.. or what have you..
BTL dealers in our turf, Shadowrunners who want a place to live that's off the grid. Etc.

Opps, I probably should highlight a few things (I'll add into the 2nd post).

You'll start with Made Man Quality (for the parent organization). Basically, your gang is a relatively big one. They're at a good capacity for their current territory. However, they have to jump at this opportunity to snatch up some more, due what just happened. That's were you come in. The most able lieutenant are tasked with doing whatever they can. So you'll be understaffed and undermanned, just like most of the opposition. It's not like this was a planned event. So you'll be able to tap your parent, but not for much, at least in the beginning.

Do we have to pay for Made Men, does it count against our 25 point limit?

Also do Magic and Edge fall under the 190 point limit?

If you were going with Seattle I was going to mention the crossover potential for Lowdown in Loveland. Now, though, I'm getting that urge to build someone. I've got a Karma to spend and a background to write for Escape, and a monstrous combat concept for First, but I still want to try my hand at this...

It's free (so you basically have 360 BPs, its mandatory to take Made Man), and it does count against the 35 limit, reducing you to the 25 which is your new limit.



No, they do not. Just at the cost of skills, resources, and such.

Looks like people are excited. Hope I can keep the pace up, enough. I don't have a strong preference for either city, or for the type of gang stuff we do (it all sounds fun). I'll toss some ideas around during meetings this afternoon and see what I can cook up.

Actually, are there any good resources out there for me to brush up on Denver? I've only ever played in Seattle, until J. Packer's game. I want to get a better understanding of the factions and stuff.

I too am interested. I can post at least daily, but have no hope of keeping up with JP and Klink. I have never been able to play a Face, so will be interested in playing an ork or human, Face Adept. Skilled with working bikes, guns and the ladies. He is of course a pimp!

Hey! You do a respectable job, posting at least a couple times a day. Right now I have 3 solids, and I've got 2 offers extended out. If one of them bails, you're next in line, because I know your solid and dependable. I'll let you know when I hear back. Sound good?

Then let me step back in order to let Ishinghar play.

Great concept and it looks like a lot of fun, but also a bit too much in terms of commitment for my plate, I'm afraid.

I will watch this space curiously, though, seeing how things turn out.

Bye
Thanee

Sounds good Thanee, I appreciate your honesty. I know that one game that requires a fair amount of posting can be time consuming, two would be even more so. I myself might be resigning from a game or two to run this and playin JP's Denver missions games.

I sure am glad that Klink said he wanted me to play because of my roleplaying skills. Because the character I'm crafting in my wee noggin is going to require everything I got...

Let's just say I'm going for a physical and mental intimidation, plus close combat angle.

Do you have access to the Sixth World Atlas, Klink? I'm pretty sure there's a writeup in there for Denver...

I'm sure Pirate Bay does.....jk....not really

Jp.. What you thinking about?

I'm contemplating an Adept Fixer type..
Or.. I admit, I'm kind of tempted by the armorer/hardware kind of low hanging hacker type.

Especially if you're gonna play a face/combat guy.

I think JPs going intimidation only (not charisma, but strength based) and combat.

Seems like Ishingar is thinking face-ish.

Since its an RP heavy game, having decent social skills will be helpful regardless.

But honestly, you should all be thinking more about the gang than your PCs at the moment. If you see an existing gang you want to be a part of, then thats cool. Otherwise, feel free to create you own.

This is true.

So lets Talk Gang.

Sounds like we're going for a Street Gang.

Now, what's the theme of the gang, who are we a sub-gang of? Does that matter.
How is the gang organized. Who wants to play the gang leader

Yeah, I'll not have strong negotiation or con skills - some, but not outrageously so, and with tight specializations. Intimidation will be big. Knife fighting, unarmed combat, clubs, that sort of mix.

So by all means, go for the Face/Fixer style role, especially if you're going to do it with an Adept, as my character looks like he'll be a little cybered, but definitely not magical.

There are a few ways to approach this. You could catagorize by broad type:

- Whiz Gang (Not enough mojo);
- Corp Brat Gang;
- Go-Gang (Ruled out?)
- Turf Gang;
- Thrill Gang;
- Etc.

But also by function/racket:

- Protection;
- Enforcement;
- Vice (drugs, gals, etc);
- Bootlegging;
- Theft.

Lot of choices to go with, also depends a bit on who the 'sponsor' is.

http://denver.wikidot.com/theme:gangs

This is 3rd ed stuff. But I'm assuming most if it is still fairly relevant. I'll be DL'ing 6th World Atlas tonight. See if there's anything helpful on there.

From the somewhat outdated wiki on Denver Shadowrun, we could be part of the Saints:

http://denver.wikidot.com/theme:gangs-saints

Ninja'ed! But mine's a specific link.

Yup. Also, feel free to take somethign that exists and throw your creative spins on it. As far as I'm concerned, its our world, not CGLs (or Fanpro, Wizkids, or FASAs). You can use them as a template, then mold it into whatever you need.

Here's a character sketch. Just background, no specifics, and subject to change. It's all gang neutral, and I wanna make sure it ain't gonna put nobody off before I run with it.

Saints work for me. The writeup is vague enough that we can do whatever we want, and make them sound far-reaching enough that they could be the parent-gang, and the fact that they reach into the shadow community probably opens up some other interesting options for us, too.

I think i'd much rather be a street gang, than a corp brat gang.

But i think a Theme would be cool.

Are we an AmerInd gang? A Meta-human gang? Straight up Human gang? A mix?

What's our stick?
The Knights of Denver?
The Chainsaw Massacre Gang?
The Freaks?
AmerInd wanna be style?

Not what I was expecting, could be pretty interesting. I'm sure that there's going to be a lot of social disadvantages in regards to the concept though. It is pretty unique and certainly could have some exciting potential.

To keep things flexible, I think we allow any metatype.

As for a style/flare, I'm open to suggestions.

It has the advantage of being a character I've never, ever played before, in any game, under any system, anywhere.

I like to think of him, as Eddie Izzard described himself, as an Action Transvestite.

As long as there's no weird sexual things going on. I'm pretty liberal about gay and lesbian stuff. Transgender though...I mean I'm tolerant (personally, everyone has the right to the pursuit of happiness)...but I wouldn't associate myself with one, if I could avoid it. You don't seem like a creeper (but you might be).

I like it.

Though I think Amerind is right out

Well, we're definitely running Prostitution, with that character.

Do we want to focus on running Prostitution, BTL and Drugs? Or do we want to be more wide-reaching than that. It's going to be tough at first, to do alot of stuff. So we should focus.. until we can expand.

Nope, not a creeper. Well, not like that anyway.

Just saw him as an interesting way to explore some interesting RP opportunities. And the whole "you can remake yourself in whatever form you choose" idea that gets kicked around in many cyberpunk stories.

I've got no problem with it. So much for my transvestite concept! (jk)

Well, I did say that it was flexible. I could still go with a more amerind/wannabe style...

I beat you to it, this time...

Okay, Klink, time to turn the tables. How sure are you that I can't have any F availability gear? I've got my eye on some hand razors but they're 10F.

ok

We need to start narrowing shit down.
Is there any gang concept your're strongly for or against?
I really don't want to play a Corp Brat Gang.. that's a bunch of trust fund kids doing it for the jollies.
I'd much rather be a bunch of SiNless who had no choice but to join gangs in order to survive, be themselves, what have you.

I guess that means I can't play my crazy chic fixer, named China White.

Yeah, the SINless and the criminal SINners, dregs of society, the misfits, etc.

Heck, maybe that's the gang's name. The Misfits. I dunno.

I like working the local angles first. Trade in drugs, beetles, flesh, stolen goods, and a force for "order" in the turf - i.e. protection rackets.

Well it looks like the Saints have razors, so I'd let you have them at Chargen, since its a specific trope to the gang.

Edit - Sent Ishingar a PM telling him his in. You guys cool with 4 or do you want 5? There's going to be limited party splitting. I'd rather have quality content for few, than subpar content for many.

I'm cool with 4, if that's what you'd prefer.

Want me to pay for the restricted gear to get those blades?

I think I am looking at a street-mage of some sort. I don't play magic characters often on DS (I tend to lean towards the sci-fi rather than the fantasy), but I'm interested. Any objection to me using the psionic tradition (which is detailed in Digital Grimore, which you may not have, and is a possession tradition, but I have no intention of making use of possession at all). If you'd rather I not, I'll look at the various shaman mentor spirits, but - like I said - I lean towards sci-fi over fantasy, and the idea of a street-tuff with psi powers seems cooler to me than one who mumbles arcane words or worships a dog or something. But I can make either of those work, if necessary - I figure it would mostly be a matter of fluff, if it wasn't for the stupid possession rules that turn a lot of people off to it.

I will have to see if the BP work out, but it looks like it'll be fine for a street-level character. More details tonight.

Nope, your fine. Just remember, it will be hard to get past scanners. Drawback enough.

I'm cool with that. And I have that book...never looked it tho.

Also, if you want a mentor (personality), make one up. I'll approve anythign thats reasonable (and consistent with other mentor spirits).

You're going to make me pay for all those difficult border crossings in the Missions game, aren't you?

Just dont fail an ettiquette roll.....

Honestly, your territory will be in one sector. Not often will you be leaving it. Just get some coyote contacts.