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J. Packer
Okay, I've never made a hacker before, so I need a bit of an assist.

What use are AR gloves. What can't you do without them?

What of the subvocal mic? Still need one if my commlink is in my head?

Do I need a hot sim modified sim module if I want to go VR?
Draco18s
QUOTE (J. Packer @ Jan 14 2011, 03:24 PM) *
What use are AR gloves. What can't you do without them?


Let you use AR.

QUOTE
What of the subvocal mic? Still need one if my commlink is in my head?


Not really, no.

QUOTE
Do I need a hot sim modified sim module if I want to go VR?


No. Hot sim lets you do hot VR. Cold sim lets you do cold VR.
klinktastic
QUOTE (J. Packer @ Jan 14 2011, 02:24 PM) *
Okay, I've never made a hacker before, so I need a bit of an assist.

What use are AR gloves. What can't you do without them?

What of the subvocal mic? Still need one if my commlink is in my head?

Do I need a hot sim modified sim module if I want to go VR?



I can help you with 2 of them. Subvocal mic basically allows you to whisper, and it sounds like you're talking in normal tone of voice.

You can tap into VR via cold sim, but that only gives you 2 IPs and no bonus dice. You need to mod you sim module to get 3 IPs and +2 dice, at the expense of being subject to getting your ass beat down.
J. Packer
QUOTE (klinktastic @ Jan 14 2011, 01:28 PM) *
I can help you with 2 of them. Subvocal mic basically allows you to whisper, and it sounds like you're talking in normal tone of voice.

You can tap into VR via cold sim, but that only gives you 2 IPs and no bonus dice. You need to mod you sim module to get 3 IPs and +2 dice, at the expense of being subject to getting your ass beat down.


Okay, so the hot-modded sim module is necessary if you're going be a drek-hot hacker who goes balls-out full VR. That's helpful. I'm doubting the need for a subvocal mic if my comm is headware.
Eratosthenes
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jan 14 2011, 03:27 PM) *
No. Hot sim lets you do hot VR. Cold sim lets you do cold VR.


Sorry to be pedantic, but a hot sim module lets you do both hot and cold VR. Cold only lets you do cold sim VR.
Squiddy Attack
1) AR gloves are for people who don't have DNI.

2) Possibly wrong, but: With an implanted comm, you can still communicate without talking, but that's through things like text. You still need a subvocal mic if you want to communicate subvocally.

3) You don't need one in order to go into VR, no. However, as a hacker, you need one because it's very useful. Hotsim gives you 3 IPs and a +2 dicepool bonus, as klinktastic said.
J. Packer
QUOTE (Squiddy Attack @ Jan 14 2011, 01:34 PM) *
1) AR gloves are for people who don't have DNI.

DNI - is it sufficient to have a trode net to have DNI?

QUOTE
2) Possibly wrong, but: With an implanted comm, you can still communicate without talking, but that's through things like text. You still need a subvocal mic if you want to communicate subvocally.

3) You don't need one in order to go into VR, no. However, as a hacker, you need one because it's very useful. Hotsim gives you 3 IPs and a +2 dicepool bonus, as klinktastic said.


Both of those make sense, after a fashion. But I still think that your internal comm ought to be able to dispense with the mic - just think the words and have a digitized voice speak them for you.
Squiddy Attack
QUOTE (J. Packer @ Jan 14 2011, 12:38 PM) *
DNI - is it sufficient to have a trode net to have DNI?


Yes, that's what trodes are for.

QUOTE
Both of those make sense, after a fashion. But I still think that your internal comm ought to be able to dispense with the mic - just think the words and have a digitized voice speak them for you.


Probably, actually. I'm sure voice synth exists, but I can't remember having seen any rules regarding it. frown.gif
sabs
Trodes is good enough for a DNI
Internal Commlinks are really a waste of money and essence.

Get a datajack, wire your external commlink to it. Have a day.

If you have a DNI and a commlink, you can think, and use recordings of your own voice to synthesize the message. So basically, with DNI you have fucking telepathy with other people who also have DNI.

Hackers:
Datajack (multiples is not bad)
drekhot external commlink
Enchephalon I, 2 is better
Pushed
Customized Interface
Optimization(exploit is common for hacker)
Hotsimmod (does not need to be implanted, but can be)
Simsense Booster and SimSense Accelerators are "I want to get asap" as they give you 4, then 5 ip's respectively.

Depending on the rules your GM is using:
Cerebral Boosters are good if you do logic+skill

rating 5 hacking softwares, with ergonomic options when possible.
Yerameyahu
It is presumably trivial to have a synth version of your own voice (or not, any voice you want, really) used in your DNI-based 'telepathic' speech. Only when you're actually trying to beat voiceprint or fool someone would you need special software.

Datajacks aren't strictly needed for… really anything. They do have their uses, in certain cases.
Squiddy Attack
Well, there you go. smile.gif
J. Packer
QUOTE (sabs @ Jan 14 2011, 01:45 PM) *
Trodes is good enough for a DNI
Internal Commlinks are really a waste of money and essence.


Yeah, I'm beginning to see that it's far from necessary, even for a combat hacker.
QUOTE
Hackers:
Datajack (multiples is not bad)
drekhot external commlink
Enchephalon I, 2 is better
Pushed
Customized Interface
Optimization(exploit is common for hacker)
Hotsimmod (does not need to be implanted, but can be)
Simsense Booster and SimSense Accelerators are "I want to get asap" as they give you 4, then 5 ip's respectively.
rating 5 hacking softwares, with ergonomic options when possible.


Nice. I'd been building him entirely from Core, but I see that Unwired adds a few must-haves.
Mardrax
There's a difference between your voice and synthed voice, of course. Voice-thoughts picked up through DNI (for which again trodes would be entirely equal to an implanted 'link) would have to be synthed, making things harder. I'd definitely impose a negative mod to social rolls for it. Outside the facing business though, it shouldn't matter.

RAW? Don't think you're going to find any.

Oh, also: I've always thought an implanted 'link impractical through inaccesibility. There are of course benefits to it as well, but it's not as much of a no-brainer as you'd perhaps think.
Yerameyahu
Strictly speaking, speaking with a subvocal mic is *sub*-whisper. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subvocalization). It's essentially silent.

I can't see why you'd impose any social penalty, unless the other person just hates synth (any it's a really low-quality voice). You're assumed to have complete control over your DNI: no accidental anything, no lack of emotion/intonation, no problems. smile.gif
J. Packer
QUOTE (Mardrax @ Jan 14 2011, 01:50 PM) *
Oh, also: I've always thought an implanted 'link impractical through inaccesibility. There are of course benefits to it as well, but it's not as much of a no-brainer as you'd perhaps think.


Real world tells us that you never integrate - modularity means flexibility.

But, for flavor, build a character who has an old comm in his head, but has since bought a shiny new one that's better. Realistic, if expensive. And it might come in handy if he's ever captured and loses his external...
Eratosthenes
QUOTE (J. Packer @ Jan 14 2011, 03:52 PM) *
Real world tells us that you never integrate - modularity means flexibility.

But, for flavor, build a character who has an old comm in his head, but has since bought a shiny new one that's better. Realistic, if expensive. And it might come in handy if he's ever captured and loses his external...


Just slap it in another piece of cyberware that can handle capacity (like a cyberarm, or cyberears if that's allowed). That should be easily swappable.
Yerameyahu
Ditto for datajacks: a single cyberhand or foot can hold the goodies (skinlinked, of course). … Never cyberears, however comical that would be. biggrin.gif I think they even took out the eye-jacks in SR4?

As for 'necessary'/'must-have', it always depends on what you're up against. You don't *need* 5 IPs… unless your challenges have them. You don't need 20 dice… unless the nodes you're expected to crack are that hard. smile.gif
Eratosthenes
I wouldn't think a datajack or commlink in a cyberlimb would need skinlink; shouldn't it be able to ride the nervous system like the cyberlimb does? The limb's already plugged into your CNS, right?

I like the idea of sticking a jack into your ear. Maybe even disguise it as headphones. biggrin.gif
CanRay
When hacking, I suggest the combat axe. It hacks things up real good!
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (Eratosthenes @ Jan 14 2011, 07:43 PM) *
I wouldn't think a datajack or commlink in a cyberlimb would need skinlink; shouldn't it be able to ride the nervous system like the cyberlimb does? The limb's already plugged into your CNS, right?


Equipment in your arms should be able to ride the arm's connection, yes.

QUOTE (Eratosthenes @ Jan 14 2011, 07:43 PM) *
I like the idea of sticking a jack into your ear. Maybe even disguise it as headphones. biggrin.gif

Better than sticking it in your eye.

Yes, I'm being serious.




-k
Doc Byte
QUOTE (sabs @ Jan 14 2011, 09:45 PM) *
Internal Commlinks are really a waste of money and essence.

Get a datajack, wire your external commlink to it. Have a day.


Better: Get a high-end, heavily secured internal commlink, a datajack and a slaved external commlink for actual hacking jobs.
sabs
QUOTE (Doc Byte @ Jan 15 2011, 01:39 AM) *
Better: Get a high-end, heavily secured internal commlink, a datajack and a slaved external commlink for actual hacking jobs.


2 things
1) you can't get a high-end heavily secured commlink at char gen
2) you can't really make it all that heavily secured
3) it'll cost you 5k more than it would to get an external with the same stats, and surgery to upgrade it.
Doc Byte
QUOTE (sabs @ Jan 15 2011, 02:41 AM) *
2 things
1) you can't get a high-end heavily secured commlink at char gen
2) you can't really make it all that heavily secured
3) it'll cost you 5k more than it would to get an external with the same stats, and surgery to upgrade it.


1) Upgrade it later or buy it after the first run.
2) Oh, yes, you can. Run a decent ICE, use some databombs and encrypt everything.
3) Sure, but you'll never lose it at unfavorable time and no one can take it away from you. - And in case somebody still does, it doesn't matter anymore as you won't need a comm without your head.
Belvidere
QUOTE (Doc Byte @ Jan 14 2011, 11:01 PM) *
1) Upgrade it later or buy it after the first run.
2) Oh, yes, you can. Run a decent ICE, use some databombs and encrypt everything.
3) Sure, but you'll never lose it at unfavorable time and no one can take it away from you. - And in case somebody still does, it doesn't matter anymore as you won't need a comm without your head.


I don't know, my troll body snatcher had a rather happy moment when he'd smashed in a few NPC skulls to snatch some of their obviously expensive shiny bits. And though he never dealt with brains because they were too delicate, a freshly torn out implanted internal comm is worth a pretty penny, especially when ou catch the enemy team's hacker off guard. grinbig.gif
Yerameyahu
Eratosthenes, the skinlink is so that the datajack (/whatever) can communicate with your (skinlinked) gear; you're right, it can already communicate with your arm, etc.
Eratosthenes
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jan 14 2011, 11:10 PM) *
Eratosthenes, the skinlink is so that the datajack (/whatever) can communicate with your (skinlinked) gear; you're right, it can already communicate with your arm, etc.


Ah! I hadn't thought of that. Thanks! biggrin.gif
J. Packer
Put together a basic gear list for a totally non-augmented hacker. Am I missing anything, or mispricing things?
[ Spoiler ]
WearzManySkins
Restricted Gear (Response 7)
Restricted Gear (Response Enhancer 5)
Simsense Booster
Encephalon I
Math SPU
Datajack
PuSHeD
Cerebral Booster 2
Novatech Airware
Upgraded Response 7
Upgraded Signal 6
Novatech Navi
Firewall 6
System 6
Simsense Accelerator
Hardening 6
Optimization [Browse]
Personality Software
Customized Interface
Biometric Lock
Environmental Resistance
Skin Link
Armored Case 6
Response Enhancer R 5

VR Initiative 17
VR Initiative Pass 5

Lets see a beginning TM beat that VR Initiative and Passes. grinbig.gif
PoliteMan
You probably want a cyberlimb, I recommend Lower Arm. Stick your datajack in there, a Nanohive in there for the Neural nanites (+3 to logic skill tests), plus some armor or maybe an internal commlink. Cyberlimbs are great for combat hackers because you can stick a bunch of useful stuff in there and the armor/bonus to physical tarck gives you some added staying power in combat.

You'll probably want to build a small bot net (about 5) after chargen for two reasons. First, you can get +5 to probing targets, which is always nice. Second, if your hoop gets in drek, it's nice to have an army of code zombies to call (presuming you're somewhere they can get).

I strongly recommend either buying an agent at chargen or pirating one immediately. Automated searches are nice but the real juice is that they can spoof your lifestyle and build botnets for you automatically. Build it right and you can be paying your bills and building your cyberzombie army while you sleep. No hacker should ever pay a penny in lifestyle. If your nice (and have the spare processing power) you can even do it for your chummers.

Something to consider (haven't been able to play around with this too much) is buying a Trojan like RAT or Vector, then downloading it to a couple of optical chips for your chummers to stick in the system. Might be a nice way to include your chummers is the tech side, since it builds off their skills to sneak in. Work example, build a nasty worm with some viruses loaded on, download a copy of vector to an optical chip and pass it around to your chummers. If they come across a electrical system or a spider, just find a place to slot the chip into the system and suddenly the spider has bigger problems than who is sneaking down his hall.
J. Packer
QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Jan 15 2011, 12:27 AM) *
Mucho stuffus:
[ Spoiler ]

Lets see a beginning TM beat that VR Initiative and Passes. grinbig.gif


Looks like quite a list, but you're going to need a lenient GM or plenty of restricted gear - so not ideal for a starting character at all. And unless I'm misreading something, don't commlinks only have four slots for upgrades?
Yerameyahu
Well, mix and match. You almost never need to be 'fully optimal', however awkward that phrase is. smile.gif What's the exact (BP) cost of that shopping list, for kicks?
J. Packer
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jan 15 2011, 07:32 AM) *
Well, mix and match. You almost never need to be 'fully optimal', however awkward that phrase is. smile.gif What's the exact (BP) cost of that shopping list, for kicks?

My list is 102,500. The super-duper-cyber-bio-geneti-nano list is terrifyingly higher. And outside the availability of a starting character in several areas.
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (J. Packer @ Jan 15 2011, 09:28 AM) *
Looks like quite a list, but you're going to need a lenient GM or plenty of restricted gear - so not ideal for a starting character at all. And unless I'm misreading something, don't commlinks only have four slots for upgrades?

I only see two pieces of Restricted gear, the Restricted Gear the Response 7 and the Response Enhancer 5.

[edit]Ah, found the "four slot limit" in Unwired. Huh, never seen that before. Sneaky bastards.



-k
Yerameyahu
QUOTE (Unwired p196)
Commlinks are considered to have 4 available modification slots.
Eratosthenes
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Jan 15 2011, 09:39 AM) *
I only see two pieces of Restricted gear, the Restricted Gear the Response 7 and the Response Enhancer 5.

[edit]Ah, found the "four slot limit" in Unwired. Huh, never seen that before. Sneaky bastards.



-k


Simsense Accelerator is Availability 14
KCKitsune
QUOTE (PoliteMan @ Jan 15 2011, 05:08 AM) *
You probably want a cyberlimb, I recommend Lower Arm. Stick your datajack in there, a Nanohive in there for the Neural nanites (+3 to logic skill tests), plus some armor or maybe an internal commlink. Cyberlimbs are great for combat hackers because you can stick a bunch of useful stuff in there and the armor/bonus to physical tarck gives you some added staying power in combat.


Go with a cyber lower leg. I say this for two reasons. First off, it gives you more capacity for the same price. Second, it's easier to hide than a lower cyber arm. With an arm you will need a long sleeve shirts and a glove to cover up the fact that you have a cyber arm. With a Cyber leg... you need pants, socks and shoes... which is what most people wear anyway.
CanRay
Depends on the city. If you're somewhere hot, shorts would be the norm and you'd look out of place unless they've very loose and light pants.

Also, synthskin covereth a multitude of sins. Including cybernetic limbs. Of course, it's a pain getting it replaced every time it gets ripped.
Yerameyahu
As far as I know, pants are the norm in the hottest places on earth.
CanRay
Unless it's a nudist colony. nyahnyah.gif
KarmaInferno
I say, go whole hog. Get an obvious cyberskull!





-k
J. Packer
QUOTE (Eratosthenes @ Jan 15 2011, 08:22 AM) *
Simsense Accelerator is Availability 14

And the Signal 6 upgrade is also A14.

And what's the pricetag on a Response 7 upgrade. Is that out of War! or something? I've heard the book is rife with power creep...
Yerameyahu
Not like you even need it, you're running rating 6 programs.
KarmaInferno
Yeah, on double checking you'd have to start with a few of the items at lower ratings.

Response 7 is Avail 20 and 24000 nuyen. Kinda steep for just a +1 die bump over 6.

Stick with Signal 5 or even 4 - not only is it hard to get, it's pointless, as Signal 4 (1 km) is plenty far enough range for most runs. If you're more than 1 kilometer from any wireless connection it's time to break out the satellite comms anyhow.

Might as well drop the Response Enhancer down to 3 while you're at it, the extra die isn't worth the use of Restricted Gear. Upgrade later.




-k
Ascalaphus
Personally I think Encephalons are too expensive in Essence and nuyen.gif for what they do.

Simsense Booster and Simsense Accelerator are absolute must-haves.
Udoshi
QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Jan 15 2011, 11:49 AM) *
Personally I think Encephalons are too expensive in Essence and nuyen.gif for what they do.

Simsense Booster and Simsense Accelerator are absolute must-haves.


PuSHeD is a good alternative to an encephalon.
If you NEED max bang-for-buck, a cyberhand with a second-hand nanohive using logic-linked nanites is very cheap and very effective.


I'm a fan of buying firewall/system 6, and some hacking utilities at start. They get nerfed/lagged down to your Response(5)....
but if you plan to get a response 6 chip in play, its a solid investment! (seriously, its only 8k. thats like 1-2, maybe 3 runs of effort)
Otherwise its 3k for system, 3k for firewall, 6k for EACH program on top of the response chip..... its just more efficient to do it with BP than earned cash.
WearzManySkins
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jan 15 2011, 12:19 PM) *
Not like you even need it, you're running rating 6 programs.

With the the VPN contact Warezhouse 24, and a major push in Datasearch skills,.you can less than 10 minutes of beginning game time, have a full suit of rating 7 soft-wares.
When you are rolling 20+ dice per roll, glitches do not happen, I know have rolled data-searches out for rating 6 soft-wares using Invisible Castle.
Yerameyahu
They're really not. At all. They're nice, but you don't *need* that many IPs.

You're assuming that rating 7 programs exist at all (outside of the military/etc.), and that you can find them pirated.
Ascalaphus
More IPs aren't necessary if your Stealth outclasses the system you're hacking, but if things go sour, they're pretty nice. IC gets 3 IPs, if you have 5, then you can either tear it apart, or go Full Defense and still do all the hacking (especially smash & grab) that you came for.
Yerameyahu
They're definitely nice. Sometimes *really* nice. I'm just saying, there's 'must-haves' and there's 'gravy'. biggrin.gif
WearzManySkins
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jan 15 2011, 02:16 PM) *
They're really not. At all. They're nice, but you don't *need* that many IPs.

You're assuming that rating 7 programs exist at all (outside of the military/etc.), and that you can find them pirated.


I assume nothing merely playing a game that has very little with RL.

You are attempting to insert RL point of view.

Only that at Chargen only availability of 12 is the limit unless you get the restricted gear quality, even that has a upper limit

No Where in RAW does it limit what a player can gain after Character Generation.

Warezhouse 24 is limited by the availability of the software. That is not much a limitation, just merely takes a few more datasearches.

If you chose to House Rule that Military Software is not avail in Warezhouse 24 you can but it is not RAW.
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