I've got a few PCs that want to buy custom-designed and built weapons from a gunsmith, instead of learning the skill, buying a facility etc.

So, I was wondering what the mark-up for Availability would be for these weapons. I was thinking something along the lines of Stock FCU x ( Final DPV/100, round up), rounded up again.

So the Ares Thunderer in the CC, with initial FCU 2.5, and Final DPV of 585, would result in an availability of:

= 2.5 x (585/100)
= 2.5 x (6)
= availability 15

Why so high? there may be a lot of Weapon dealers, but few Gunsmiths who can make custom weapons. The more work (design options added to stock weapon), the more likely it is someone can recognize the gunsmith's work.

Any thoughts on this?

I think a high availability makes sense, since custom weapons are not as proliferant, of course, if they're going to a gunsmith and paying to have it done, there would be no real availability, that would actually be more of a contact thing. however if someone was looking to buy a gun like a custom piece just on the streets, then that availability would be astronomical simply because there may be only 1 or a few pieces made that way, and thus are rarities, and as such, there's your high availability.

Basically if you're getting a gun made, don't use availability, use contacts, buying a customer gun already made, will take some serious work.

After looking through the CC, I had to change a couple things so I'm no looking something along the lines of Base Availability for the type of weapon + (Final DPV/100, round up) for anything less than a light machine gun, and Base Availability + (Final DPV/200) for Light Machine Guns and Higher.

So the Ares Thunderer in the CC, with Base Availability for most Shotguns of 8, and Final DPV of 585, would result in an availability of:

= 8 + (585/100)
=8 + (6)
= availability 14

ShadowPhoenix, just because a PC has a contact, it doesn't negate availability or street index of an item.

If you're using a lot of options, like Ceramic Components, Decreased Weight, Easy Breakdown, stuff like that that's going to be hard to get the components for, avail is going to be pretty high; 15 or so probably accurate. If it's fairly straightforward (but what custom gun is?) I'd say no avail.

~J

What I was saying is that there can't be an availability for a non-existant weapon, so if they're getting it done by a gunsmith, they pay the price he throws at them, and he customizes the gun for them, but if they're looking to buy a prebuilt custom gun, availability should be high because it'll be hard to find a custom piece.

Example: Steely Joe the Gunbunny goes to his gunsmith contact and wants a Ares Predator III with Ceramic Parts. The gunsmith does the availability/etiquette test for getting a hold of an Ares Pred III, then charges him the extra cost of his labor + parts for the ceramic mods. Availability doesn't jump because the gun was non-existant until the Gun was built

Example 2: Steely Joe's Friend Billy Joe(no relation) goes to a fixer and says he wants a gun just like Steely Joe's. Since such a weapon is a custom piece and not easily available on the open market, The Availability is really high to acquire such a piece, and as such, the Billy Joe fails his Etiquette test, and the Fixer can't manage to locate such a piece for him

At least that's how I see it. I don't see why you would apply a higher availability to a custom piece if it's being Made for the character, but if it's just being bought from a fixer, I'd so slap down the availability crush.

Availability in custom equipment also includes finding someone willing to put it together.

If the weapon is unique, and is found to be involved in a crime, and its components are traced back to the weaponsmith, said weaponsmith is in a world of drek because you didn't cover your tracks.

guess that makes sense, but would you apply the same thing if the player had a gunsmith contact? he already has someone willing to put it together.

Not every gunsmith is going to have the tools to make a ceramic rifle that can be broken down to fit into a briefcase. That's where availability comes in even for custom jobs, not prebuilt guns.

~J

Availability is also whether the Gunsmith actually has time to put it together for you - he may have too many other orders, be going on vacation, under watch/investigation by LoneStar. Just because you have a Gunsmith for a contact doesn't mean he's available exclusively for your needs alone.

Just because you have a contact, it doesn't mean an item is available, or easily created or inexpensive for your PC.

Unless of course, he is a Level 3 Contact (Buddy for Life), and you maintain Conctact upkeep of a minimum of ¥ 7,000/year.

My mistake. upkeep is annual, not monthly.

Contact upkeep, if strictly enforced, is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard. Seriously, unless the contact is L1, upkeep should be more in the "thoughtful favours" catagory than the "buy him or her a new Dodge Scoot every month" catagory.

~J

I know. My point though is that you don't extrapolate buying a few beers a month for a L1 contact to buying a case of beer a day for a L3 contact, or rather that you shouldn't.

~J

I agree with Kagetenshi-that's not much of a "buddy for life" if you have to take a dayjob to keep him happy.

Yeah, but 7000 per year in cash, favors, information, whatever, shouldn't be all that difficult. Maybe you help him out with a couple low-level runs per year, tip him off to something big that you know he'd be interested in, or even help him re-shingle his roof.

The point those rules conventiently forget is that contacts work both ways. Your character is as much a contact for them as they are to you. It should balance out, especially for a "friend of life." If I'm going to blow 7,000 nuyen on gifts and dinners for someone, I expect them to return those favors, too.

The fact that you already pay an obscene Resources cost should more than suffice. Penalizing characters futher for having contacts that a GM can play off of is just idiotic.

My mistake - it's ¥ 7,000 per *year* upkeep, which is quite cheap for a Level 3 contact, seeing as how they practically join your run just for the fun of it, which, compared to hiring a merc, is far cheaper and trustworthy.

My PC's don't pay Fixer upkeep, as the fixer always gets 10% of the payoff for any runs he sends their way, and for the rest of their Level 1 contacts (no on has any higher), they usually spend far more than the ¥ 500/year easily to maintain upkeep.

I prefer the upkeep, as it eliminates "Face" Characters with high social skills who have 40-50 contacts. Why is this bad idea? If you have 10 Weapons Dealer Contacts, your chances of getting that assault Cannon are far better - just keep rolling availability with each contact. If you go through all 10 contacts to find that Assault Cannon, it's like re-rolling failures 9 times in a row with no Karma Pool cost.

I have much less of a problem with it now that it's been revealed that the 7k/month figure was in error. I would slap any player who tried to just deduct 7k every year from their credstick, but 7k worth of favours and stuff... well, this is one of those cases where I really don't think there should be rules to cover it, but GM discretion can override the rules too.

~J

Everyone has their own opinion on the subject, I suppose. But how you can see a one-way transaction of 7,000+ nuyen per year in addition to everything else you have to spend when dealing with the contact (for services rendered) "precisely the opposite" of a one-way transaction of 7,000+ nuyen per year is beyond my ability to comprehend.

I also don't care how you slice it; 3,000 to 7,000 nuyen per year is an insane cost for a good friend who'll stick by your side. By that one rule alone, it means that the vast majority of humanity doesn't have a good friend considering that that's the equivalence of 3-7 months of living. For just *ONE* friend.

Forget working for a living. Make friends (Buddy, Level 2) with four people and you effectively have a permanent Low Lifestyle... but only as long as you never do anything for them outside of sitting around waiting for them to come to you, of course.

It's a dumb rule (and not the only one in the game) that hasn't caused a single problem, either game-wise or roleplaying-wise, due to its absence in my games. Especially since, paying for drinks and taking friends out for dinner is covered by your lifestyle, and that relationships with contacts *aren't* (or at least *shouldn't*) be one-way.

Devil's advocate time: most of humanity doesn't have a close friend that they will need to call on to do illegal things regularly.

~J

Don't forget that although some friends/contacts are also in the illegal trades, not all are. I run my PC's contacts as such: If you need some info that a someone that may be able to profit from info down the road may need, that will be how you pay them. If you have a cop/lawyer/corp exec/any-other-rather-upstanding-individual contact, then yeah, I use the Contact Upkeep rules. To say that either way is foolish...well, that doesn't sit well with me. If balanced, they both have their place. Kage's last response is the prime reason I use the Contact Upkeep rules when deeling with cop/lawyer/etc... contacts. Just my 0.02

Just like the old saying goes:

Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.

See for 7k its kinda better that (as a GM at least) you work something out thats more then cash. Lets take this example:
Your best buddy (L3 contact) who owns and operates "Bums Guns" calls you up for the normal weekly "lets go to the bar". In passing me mentions that a new protection racket has decided to take over, and is roughing him up for a lotta money. Being the nice guy you are, and knowing full well that your chummer would do the same for you, you offer to 'take a look into it' cause you got a friend in the Mafia. Your friend pulls a string (with a small payoff cause hes only a L1 contact) and the pressure is off, and the mob even takes a little look see into what your cummer has got for sale.
And that would even be interesting to run in game!

Excellent example! Upkeep is not strictly ¥.

Which is exactly how it's described in the rulebook.

I think what some were trying to get at, is that it's a two way street.

So the runner helps out his Buddy for Life by getting the protection racket off his back. That's great.

But if the Buddy for Life doesn't do anything for the runner in return, there's a problem. The 7k in favors should go both ways.

Scale it down a bit: Most friends would cover lunch for a pal. But if that friend is constantly covering lunch and the pal doesn't even make the effort to buy his own food once in a while that friend will eventually grow resentful.

I understand that the upkeeps were put in place as a mechanic to put a check on treating contacts as a list of names to pump for information. But going the opposite way, where contacts are nothing more then time or money sinks for the character, is just as bad.