Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Using two pistols
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
I have come up with an idea on how to use two pistols with a Smartlink 2 with an extra ballistics processor. I picked the Smartlink 2 because it is the more advanced version. Anyway, I simply use the shotgun spread chart and the characterís Intelligence subtracted from 10 as the choke. If you shoot at the same target you get the -2TN for each weapon (all over mods apply, two weapon, ambidextrous. etc.). If you shoot at two targets they must be with the spread and then you only get a -1TN for each target.

Example: A crazy ex-Lone Star medic is shooting at two victims...err... targets. Her INT is 5. The targets are 15 meters away and 7 meters apart. At 15 meters away she would only be able to aim at targets 5 meters apart.

What do you guys think of that? And yes, go ahead and complain about how the rules say you canít use two blah, blah, blah. If this has already been mentioned sorry I didnít realize it.
So the dumber you are the wider apart your targets can be? Or am i stupid? dead.gif
I personally wouldn't even begin to allow it, but assuming it's allowed, I'd change that to be intelligence is maximum choke rather than choke at all.

Why would it be easier to shoot 2 weapons at 1 target that shooting a single weapon?
I'll only allow dual-targeting smartlinks provided they are hardwired into a cranial kink-bomb set to explode when both smartlinks are active at the same time. eek.gif
So the dumber you are the wider apart your targets can be? Or am i stupid?

The way I understand it the rating of the choke the number of meters before the next spread? Therefore someone with an INT of 2 would have a "choke" of 8. Meaning that every 8 meters the spread opens up two meters
Steel Machine
Searching these forums should reveal a number of threads that this has been hashed out in pretty well.
Would't it make sense for quickness to replace INT in this case?
Would't it make sense for quickness to replace INT in this case?

Would you like me to tell you how many Quickness 10/11 characters I've had? wink.gif
I wouldn't like this for the simple reason that it requires the GM to either keep track of the exact position of all combatants and have more than a passing knowledge of triginomitry. Or, set up miniatures on a grid sheet that not everyone has, and have said Trig skills cool.gif
Here's how I rule it:

If you've got two SGL2's implanted, and 2 pistols with SGL, and you shoot at one target, you get normal bonuses and penalties, including the -2 TN for the SGL. You also get the recoil penalties and stuff. I don't think firing multiple guns at the same target should be any harder than firing one, other than recoil and such.

If you've got two SGL2's implanted and 2 pislots with SGL and you try to shoot at different targets, you not only lose the bonus, you get an additional +2 because of the crazy sight reticals dancing around your eye's confusing you. As well as the penalty on the second one for firing at a different target.

If you only use one SGL, and have the other one off, then you get normal TN's (per the book) for both, including getting the SGL bonus for one. In other words, you're concentrating on the one you're shooting at with the SGL, so your base TN is 2, the other one you're just throwing a slug at, and your TN is 6.

That works for me.
Wielding two handguns is such a Hollywood thing. If that is the feel your after in your game then go for it.

I would say though, get yourself two paintball guns, Nerf dart guns, Soft-air pellet guns or some similar safe toy handgun and have two of your buddies run around on either side of you and try to hit them with both guns simultaneously or even in very rapid succession. I think you will find duel-wielding pistols difficult at best. The off hand is going to really suck unless you have practiced with it a lot or are ambidextrous. In general itís far easier to use one gun and engage both target one after the other.

As far as duel wielding handguns go I cannot think of any group now or since the inception of firearms where it is taught even to the most elite soldiers or swat officers. It is always taught to use one weapon at a time.

Even in the Ďold westí carrying two or more handgun was not for duel wielding but because is took so darn long to load the old black powder revolvers and even with the invention of the cartridge based revolvers like the Colt peacemaker and other side gate loading single action pistols unloading and reloading was a chore done one chamber at a time. Even then it was rare that one could afford more than one side arm and not many that could afford it wanted the extra weight of the second gun on their belt.

It looks good on the big screen but I feel reality has proven it less then effective. Maybe with smart gun links you can argue otherwise. It is an RPG so donít let reality stop you if you want to.

I'd have to agree that it's very hard. Seen a mate play a shooting game with the red gun in his left, blue in his right. if he need to shoot anything moving he rocked and his accuracy didn't suffer that much, but when it came to blue gun blue targets etc. both guns suffered majorly.

And that doesn't factor in recoil or the fact the targets may not be in a meter by meter square..
Ok... instead of starting a whole new thread, I'll ask my question here (it's a related one). What kind of penalties would you give if a character wants to fire more than two firearms? Let's say the character has an articulated arm (or two) or maybe an eye-gun.
QUOTE (mcb)
I cannot think of any group now or since the inception of firearms where it is taught even to the most elite soldiers or swat officers

mcb hit the nail on the head. Special Operators and CQB specialists don't even bother with two pistols because one is just more effective when you consider the loss of accuracy with two.

IRL they spend a great deal of time practicing "transitions"- changing from one weapon to another as quickly and efficiently as possible while under fire. They practice these until it is damn near a reflex action. A well trained operator will count the number of rounds he runs thought his SMG and will begin transitioning to his pistol almost as soon as the last round leaves the barrel.
Moonstone Spider
I suppose you could create the skill "Off-hand pistols" or "Off-hand SMGs" and make the player take lots of extra skill if they want to fire two guns at once. That would be consistent with the melee weapon skills.

I seem to recall that in one of the books Hatchetman had two Smartlinks and had two reticules with different colors in his vision to tell them apart. While obviously the books aren't canon that would suggest it's possible.
Darkest Angel
The rules are in SR3, and are pretty clear - you can fire 2 guns if you want, but you'll be on +2s for both guns, and uncompensated recoil from one gun effects the other. Smartlinks and Laser sites are no help.
The only thing that will help with two guns is the enhance Aim Spell and Full Ambidexterity.

However, since Enhance Aim can be resisted by the target you're shooting at (all detection spells are resisted), it's ambiguous at best - it needs to be high force, sustained or in a sustaining focus, the TN is 6, with every two successes reducing your TN by for, up to 1/2 the force of the spell max.

I've found enhance aim to work really well with elemental manipulation area-effect spells. Just target the ground in front of the guys you want to frag (ground doesn't get to resist). Two successes on a force 2 enhance aim in a Force 2 Sustaining focus, and you're TNs are 2s (-1 TN for stationary target [the ground]).

This means a lot more dice to reserve for drain on Elemental Manips.
Regarding Hatchetman, if someone had two smartlink processors I would most definitely allow two reticles to exist, one tracking one gun, one the other. The smartlink would work perfectly, it just wouldn't give a bonus.

This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012