hey all i was just wondering if i could get some imput on a character that i made for a game of shadow run i am joining next weekend.

dwarf
body 5
agility 5/7
reaction 4/6
strength 7/9
charisma 2
intuition 3
logic 3
willpower 3

edge 1
essence 0.6
initiative 9
initiative passes 3

qualitys
ambidextrous
sinner (criminal)
debt (25,000)

skill groups
athletics 3
outdoors 2
stealth 2

skills
blades 5 (axe)
unarmed combat 4
pistols 5 (heavy)
first aid
automatics 3
dodge 2
throwing weapons 2
pilot ground craft 2

language
english n

knowlage skills
safehouses 4
seattle gangs 5
criminal hangout 3
security companies 3
drung dealers 3

cyber/bio ware
wired reflex 2
muscle replace 2
platelet factories
bone density

armour
lined coat
armoured vest

weapons
2x combat axe
2x monofilliment axe
survival knife
2x ares pred
2x ingram smartgun x
4x flash bangs
4x frag grenades

ammo
100x ex-explosive rounds
100x stick-n-shock
100x regular rounds

commlink
erika elite
iris orb
basic use package 2
subvocal mic
earbuds 3
audio enhancement 2
select sound filter 1

sunglasses
smart link

basic doc wagon

chopper (motorbike)

misc gear
2x fake sins 6
2x fake licences 6
med kit 6
other misc stuff

Edited the topic to give away a few more info.

..lot of things to improve...
Debt 25k is pretty much death-trap to pay it off (50 karma points)
Ambidexterity-quality is always under fire (changes to even hit someboby/ "John Woo- mentality" )
non-modified armor???
Fake Sin rating 6 is out of reach in Charc.gen without Restricted Gear-quality (from Runner's Companion)

Okay skills... Why Outdoors group? Will the campaign you join, focus on outdoor activites and runs? If not, IMHO the outdoors group just isn't worth the cost... and you are seriously lacking in the social skills branch. At least try to get some points in Etiquette. If your game is all about running in the wilderness , you may want to have some knowledge skills in this area, too.
You have athletics 3, that means a gymnastic dodge of 3. Which in turn means, a Dodge skill of 2 isn't necessary at all.


Personally, I like to use muscle augmentation and toner over muscle replacement, but that's just my style. But I would seriously try to cram some cybereyes into this guy. While smartgun sunglasses give you a lot of style-points in my book, there will be situation, when you get caught without your sunglasses. Putting the smartgun into cybereyes is simply safer and more convenient.

-CJ

muscle replacement is fine for a cheap start, don't worry, you can always get bioware with the money you earned. the rest i agree with aforementioned critics.
don't do blades AND unarmed respectively Gymnastics AND dodge. decide.
Outdoors group is fine, if you know it from our past.

for a fluff and really great ingame situation: dwarfs are the guys with willpower. try to pla that. try to push it higher like 4-6. and get switch Ambitextrous to at least Magic Resistance 2+. Now you're at 6-8 dice against stupid security mages and they might not have more dice themselves.

High Body + high Willpower + fast guns = mage threat.

If you have a party mage who can Counterspell for you, you might even be able to ignore spells by more serious spell-slingers.

thanks for the advice so far,

i dont understand what is wrong with ambidextrous?

and what is the difference between the gymnastic dodge and the dodge dodge, my understanding of it is that while you can dodge with gymnastics you can only do full dodge with dodge, am i wrong in my gleening of infomation?

also thanks for pointing out that in debt is such a bitch to pay off, i didnt think that it would be too bad, as all i thought of doing was paying the money owed minus 1:nuyen: and just leaving it at that, or is this also a bad idea?

and why should i only have blades or unarmed, i thought that having both is better off, what if i was caught without my "blades"?

when u are shooting 2 heavy pistols: Agil 7 + 7 = 14 dies then it is halved = 7 die
(smartgun do not stack), (chances to hit are low..) but shooting w/ 1 Heavy pistol 16 die...

Yes, you are right, of course. If you want redundancy, there's nothing wrong with both blades and unarmed. Come to think of it, right now you invested 38 BP into melee skills (blades 5 + spec + unarmed 4). With another two BP you could get Close Combat group at rating 4 instead. You would lose 3 dice in blades and gain another skill at rating 4... depends on if you want to be a blades expert or more of a general melee specialist.


When you do a ranged full defense, you roll reaction + dodge or reaction + gymnastic dodge. Since the latter is the better dicepool in your case dodge isn't necessary here. In melee defense you are already rolling reaction + blades/unarmed, so it's generally not so often necessary to go on full defense and add dodge to that.

-CJ

This is true if you are trying to fire both at the same time. Not true if you are only firing one shot each hand on an Semi-Auto (for example).

That only applies when you want to use the special rules to fire both guns simultaneously in a simple action. One can use two guns at once and fire one twice or each of them once in an initiative pass using the normal rules of 1 simple action = 1 shot with no dice pool splitting and with smart gun/laser sight functionality. The upside is that you get double the number of shots before you have to reload.

The In Debt question depends entirely on your GM. One position is that once the debt is gone, there's no reason to ever buy-off the Quality.

If it gives a good plot hook I think it is a fine quality as it actively encourages the character to take sub optimal jobs. I personally like to jack it up by it giving 5000 nuyen per build point negative quality. This means a character can easily and quickly find himself dead from either the job or the loan shark.

You can also use that trick to alternate shots with a pair of relatively powerful single shot pistol class weapons such as the Ruger Super Warhawk, the Eichiro Hatamoto II, or even with tasers and stick 'n' shock loaded holdouts-- although the holdout trick is less impressive now that Arsenal has introduced a semi-auto holdout which isn't restricted to flechette rounds. From a min-maxing perspective the quality is still strictly a luxury, but it IS a way to squeeze in an extra point of DV to go along with the flavor of using two guns sans penalty, so you could do worse. I mean, really, in my heart of hearts I just can't fault a guy for wanting his wired up burly street samurai with reinforced bones to run around with a couple pieces that'd bring a gleam to Harry Callahan's eye.

Can you show me where it says you have to pay the karma cost to remove the debt? If you pay off the 25k debt but still have the neg. quality, maybe it's just because the debt is still on your "credit score" or something. The quality itself simply gives you money that you have to pay back at a later time (with interest) - no karma cost to pay it off at all.

get your wired reflexes 2, as used standard (for 1/2 cost, and a slight essence bump)

use the saved money to get muscle aug, and muscle toner
don't get bone density, instead get Aluminum bone lacing (or plastic if you're feeling cheap)



cyber/bio ware
wired reflex 2 3 essence 32K
muscle replace 2 2 essence 10k
platelet factories .2 25k
bone density .3 20k
total essence: 5.25
Total Nuyen: 87k

---- My proposal
wired reflexes 2 used std 2.4 essence 16K
muscle aug 2 .4 14K
muscle toner 2 .4 16k
Platelet factories: .2 25k
Bone Lacing Aluminum: used std 1.2 7.5k
total essence: 4.2
total nuyen: 118.5 k without the trauma damp: 78.5K

SR 4a BBB pg.270 CHARACTER IMPROVEMENT: Removing negative Quality BP Bonus x2
.In Debt IS Negative Quality... (pretty clearly worded, dont u think?..)

so dont' remove it.. just pay the damn interest only

That's not what he asked, Stingray. To remove the *debt*, not the In Debt negative quality, for which there are no penalties after the debt is gone.

I like players with that kind of naive thinking *evillaugh*

ok...
for example:
A takes 10k Debt from Mafia ( 10 bp bonus)
..now he owns 15k (original 10k + half) + each month "intrest" are 1500 yen..

to remove In Debt completely:

Paying 15 000 + 1500 ("intrests) + 20 karma points (BP bonus x2 )

now he is totally free from that negative qualty..

clear..

Right. But there's no mechanical difference between paying the debt without removing the NQ, and paying all that karma. The whole thing is a mess, which is why I said (way back in the thread) that it depends on your GM.

I'd just love to see the GM send goons after you: "Okay, chummer, cough up the --ZERO NUYEN-- you owe Mr. Big!" If he wants to get cute, he has to declare it beforehand.

Anyway, I apologize for helping hijack the thread. There's plenty of other threads about this exact question.

get cha 1 and intuition 4 instead. better min max. let the face do his thing socially. you are there to melt faces even drop logic to 2 and get body 6
if you dont mind playing logic 1 character you can invest the point in intuition 5 (if you did the cha->int before, or 4 if you didint)

now for skill. dont specialise any of these at chargen. get the specs ingame with karma..better min max..
these are just suggestions of the path to get there. but where you see me saying (+2 Spec) thats all ingame.


dont waste points on ambidextrous. pick Automatics (SMG) with a skillrecorder cultured bio and just stick to 1 dedicated ranged skill. if you want to be redundant in skill just in case you are bettr of investing in a sling or some thinking power of how NOT to lose your gun. an smgs are so common that you should never be without a gun and even then automatics covers ARs and machine pistols so plenty of gear to never need a backup skill. the best option thouh is the ares alpha with a gas vent 3 on front and Automatic (Assault Rifles)(Skill Recorder) stack.

i can understand you wanting the biggest bang for your buck by going ares preds but the better dual wield is viper slivers better base code DV...but then again i would stick to the more versitile SMGs since if modifier go out of hand you can do wide burst to offset.




lose unarmed as already mentioned and stack on blades (Axe) (Skill Recorder) or blades (cyber implant blades)(Skill recorder)
as backup just get cyber implanted blades so you are never unarmed.
drop outdoors its never needed. even if it is ask someone else in the group to be the tracker...if not who cares if you get lost in the woods at least you can kill anything in sight...
stealth. leave as is if yo intend to use all the skills but with above switches to cha->int and logic->int the extra dice can make you infiltration mini god by dropping the skill group and picking up infiltration instead. for the price of 2 stealth you get 4 infiltration (or 5 if you did not go 5 and 5 for automatics and blades)
since you dropped outdoors get athletics to 4.

Unless you want to be blind as a bat i suggest at least Perception 1 but the spare skills from the above shifts gets you Perception 4. later ingame you can specialise with karma to get (+2 Visual).
drop dodge as already mentioned.
get pilot ground craft 4 and throwing weapons 4 (later spec to grenades).




2x Ingram Smg X??? why if you are dual wielding you cant use the folding stock. better option is 1 fully deployed ingram. on the second burst you just wide burst it to offset the recol.
why so many axes? pick the best one and stick to it.
get cyber blades since we lost unarmed.
your loadout should look like:
1 or 2 SMGs or ARs of choice..or 1 SMG supressed for stealth work and 1 AR for heavy duty work. since you will be skill specking ingame by then you should know how the campaign is going and decide to spec SMGs or ARs
grenades
1 good axe of choice
(cyber blades as part ofyour cyber purchase)




get glasses 4. smartlink, ultrasound, imagelink and vision mag. if you can aford get cybereyes instead with these mods (imagelink and recorder come free with cybereyes). with rating 2+ eyes you can get more gear in them. get image enhance 3 for +3 perception tests. finish it off with flare comp and proectve covers and you are set. ingame you can go for retinal duplication.

first aid skill 4 and medkit 6 is plenty dice. you dont need doc vagon contract.

the fake sins and licences would be rating 4 at chargen..sorry.

depends how your money is ingame you can switch your wired 2 and get synaptic2 or 3 as money starts rolling in. aim that to be your first money expense.

if by some chance you love your redundancy skills i suggest wait till ingame and you have some cash and invest into skillwires and expert skill wire system (allows edge on skillsofts)
and jst get rating 4 activesofts for any 'backup' skills you intend to have. helps with traveling to countries you dont speak the langauge.. rating5 SW allows 2x5 lingasofts...ans you can carry a comlink full of softs and just load/unload as needed with simple action...

Well, he could have a backup weapon set stashed somewhere, just in case...

when u are shooting 2 heavy pistols: Agil 7 + 7 = 14 dies then it is halved = 7 die

No it isn't .Specialisation is a Modifier
Its (if you split even )8 Die per simple Action &Gun
But this has been discussed (here) so often....I wonder why some people still think....wrong (is that the right Word ?)

with a modified Dance
Medicineman

....hmmmm....
so..
Gunslinger Adept w/agil 6 and Pistols skill 6 & Ambidextrous
Goggles W/smartgun link
Ares Predator IV in each hand (w/personalized grip & underbarrel weight)
4 targets
I simple Action: right hand gun 1 shot to target nro. 1
12 die + 2 (from smartlink) (no recoil modifiers) = 14 die to shoot target 1

right hand gun 1 shot to target 2
12 die -2 die (other target -1, second shot -1) + 2 (from smartlink) ( no recoil modifiers) = 12 die to shoot target 2

II simple action left hand gun 1 shot to target 3
12 die - 2 die (other target -2,) + 2 (from smartlink) (no recoil modifiers) = 12 die to shoot target 3
left hand gun 1 shot to target 4
12 die - 4 (other target -3, second shot -1) + 2 (from smartlink) (no recoil modifiers) = 10 die to shoot target 4

am i counting it right?..

Either you Split the Pool an can shoot twice per simple Action
thats 12 Dice / 2 = 6 per Pool but with all Modifiers added to each Pool so shooting at 2 different Targets at the same simple Action means -2 per Pool (= 4 Dice) and no Smartlink bonus!
Or you Shot one after the other (first right,than left) with the complete Pool + Smartlink bonus (it takes a free action to switch Smartlink sight/Bonus) thats 14 Dice
for the first shot and 12 Dice if the second shot is at another target.But you shoot only once per simple Action

Akimbo shooting is for "High Noon Situations"(no negative modifiers)

Ares Predator IV in each hand (w/personalized grip & underbarrel weight)
You only need one Mod not both because the first Shot is allways Recoilfree. I would advice the personal Grip cause it's cheaper(and I'm not quite shure if underbarrel weight works for Pistols) or even better electronic firing (get yourself two Colt Gouvernment 2066 )

HokaHey
Medicineman

thank u for info!
(underbarrel weight can not be addedd to hold-outs, and thats it..)