What the topic says: is it possible to specialize on skills you don´t own by your own?

Do you mean the character paying some Karma to have a meat-based specialization for a given skillsoft? That doesn't seem possible, as skillwires override the normal nerve-controls.

That said, I don't quite see why you couldn't make some prices up for skillsofts with particular specializations.

In my opinion you can't do it by yourself, but it probably can be included in the software.

The short answer is no, but there are program options in Unwired that do other useful things for skillsofts. You certainly can't do it yourself, because you can't program activesofts.

You *could* rig some kind house rule, certainly. Just price it accordingly. Personally I'd use the existing Simsense Program Options rules [Cost+(Rating*1000)]. Unrated options are treated at Rating 3, so that's +3000¥ for a specialization option (Avail +2). Fair? Skillsofts are 10000 per Rating, so that's something.

A question is, 'can you specialize above the Activesoft limit of Rating 4?'; I'd personally no, given that you can already Personalize your skillsofts for a 'virtual' Rating 5. It starts to get ridiculous, and skillwires are already pretty great. The lack of specialization is a nod to balance, perhaps, while the fluff does mention how difficult activesofts are.

No. However. If you have the skill, and a specialization, AND a skillwire/active soft combo for the same skill....

then it actually does work.



Only the rating is replaced, not the presence or lack of a specialization.

This actually opens up an interesting avenue of advancement for a classic chipware cybersammy.

Thats pretty clever truthfully. But it does cut into the "discount" of using skillwires a bit.

Why Not? SOMEONE has to program them after all, as they ARE programmed. That whole Programs = Programmed thingy...
The only thing I would say is that You would gain no benefit from programming them yourself, as you would need the skillset being programmed to actually program them (or have one hell of a facility set up for just that purpose)...

Why not? Rules say no. Duh.

And, in fact, simsense programs really aren't 'programmed'. Apparently, they're more like captured/recorded, and modified, along with other complex voodoo. So there, Mr. Clever.

You can't do it because they don't have a relevant entry on the Software Coding tables.

Though, Tactical Software thresholds/entries, i think, may fit the bill. Your mileage may vary.

It's not like you can't do it just because it's not explicitly covered in the rules. You'll just have to think of a ruleset for that, like using someone with the skills necessary and a simrig, and rolling some harsh Software tests.

That said, back to the original question. I can see houseruled skillsofts with specializations, if you're willing to be kind to your players; but certainly your own specializations, ones you pay for with Karma, do not apply to the skills you get with skillwires.

Why not?

Because it's the most obvious counter-fluff munchkinry.

You can only specialise in a skill that you know yourself (for that you paid for in Karma/BP)
however you can have the Skill at rating 1 ,specialise in it and use it (the specialisation) with a chipped Skill of 4
Thats the Raw

with a spezialisation in Matrix Dances
Medicineman

From the description, the skillwire overrides the muscle control - which makes it in my opinion obvious that either you're using your natural skill with it's eventual specialisation, or the programmed skill as it is. You can't mix and match them but must chose which one is in use.

It's a possibility that wanton abuse of the rules is RAW. Obviously, it doesn't matter, because it's also wholly wrong.

Would a possessed character also get a specialization bonus? If you allow it for skillwires, it seems it should also be allowed for possession.

Makes me wonder why the devs chose to word specializations as a dice-pool bonus, rather than just saying "Your skill with katanas is 6, otherwise your skill with blades is 4".

I don´t think so, if skillwires has to be activated then the spirit has no access to it. If they are already working....GM decision.

From the context, I'd rather think phlapjack77 means 'should the specialisation from the character apply to a skill granted by the possessing spirit'.

In both case you have a skill given by an external (to the character) source.

In case of possession, you don't have a skill granted by an external source, the spirit has attributes given by an external source.

right
the possessed one still uses his own Skills only the Attributes are different (and the control of the Action itself), but the Skill is the same.
So a possessed one can use a specialisation

He who Dances like possessed
Medicineman

Heheheh... That just means that it is generally out of the purview of the Player Character. As a Program, they must, by definition, have been Programmed at some point. BTL's are still PROGRAMS (Simsense). Autosofts are STILL programs (Simsense and Hardwired Coding)... so are Active Softs (Simsense and Hardwired Coding). The fact that you use Program Oprions, to modify the base programming in specific ways, should prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that an Active soft is a PROGRAM...

I agree with every word.

As a matter of fact, I think it could be fun to allow the hackers some more freedom with coding. Give the players the creative power, and see what they can come up with.

No arguments here, there are just no real guidelines for such currently. I remember a 2nd Edition character that did this very thing. She was a lot of fun.

I do believe Activesofts (like Knowsoft and Linguasofts, really) are fluffed as requiring years of work, recording the simsense output of as many people as possible, who actually have the skill in question, at the level of the rating. Just recording the output of one would just make it work for him. You want the average of hundreds of people to have the greatest compatibility among the general populace, since every person's brain and nervous system will be mapped slightly different. Post processing comes into play after that, of course.

If players have the means to go that length, then sure, I'd allow them to create their own Skillsofts. If not, however, which is by far the more likely case, then they can forget about it.
Of course this also ties into the entire question of why you'd be running any shadows if you have a completely functional, high end simsense/programming studio, theoretically capable of making millions, and need to funnel the time into this to make it actually work.

In general, freedom is a good thing, but it shouldn't stretch suspension of disbelief too much IMHO.

Of course, specialised Skillsofts might actually exist already. Ares might well produce Skillsofts specialised in their showpieces or best sellers.

There are also activesoft quirks, like spinning your gun on a finger each time before you drop it into the holster (I believe they were mentioned in Unwired). How can these crop up, if hundreds of skilled professionals are recorded?

How could there be bugs in [name any OS] if there are so many professionals working on them?

That's a feature.

Nah, my point is - such a quirk is obviously an imprint of a single gunfighter who always spun the gun before holstering it. If the activesoft was a recording of a hundred professionals, surely one's peculiarities wouldn't get recorded.

It is implemented because we all have a little cowboy in ourselves....^^

If one person take the trouble to blow the smoke off the barrel, twirl the gun around a finger and holster it after each sample "final shot", and no one else does something similar, his action is apparently important enough for the skillsoft recording to include it, while no one provides a counter balance.

*shrug*

Anyway, when one instance of fluff adds to another instanceof fluff without being specifically mutually exclusive, they should IMHO be considered additive. If canon says it's so, it's so. Logical arguments aside

Tymeaus, no one said they're not programs. It's only an mistake of English that leads you to conclude that means they're 'programmed'.

How does Coded work for you then. The fact of the matter is that they have program options, which are programmed into the CODE of the Active Soft. They had to have been "Coded" by someone. They are, after all, acting just like an Operating System for the Body that replicates a Specific Skill.

As you know, that's still not the same as how an Analyze program is coded. Simsense programs are categorically distinct in origin, even though they do indeed use Options, etc. Again, no one is saying they're not programs. They are not, however, created through the application of a SR4 'programming' action. Not for PCs and not for NPCs. You'll note this, from Unwired, which addresses both aspects of the question:

No arguments on those accounts. I do get that they are categorically "different" in a lot of ways. But the existence of that "Mother Program" measn that, at least in theory, you could have a character who is capable of editing the wet records in the fashion that they desire. Admittedly, that is WAY outside the normal parameters of Shadowrun, but it could happen, if the players wanted to go in that direction. There is enough of a framework out there to make it viable.

I could see a hacker "tweaking" opposing sammy's activesofts... Or, actually, adding something cool to the ones his own sam is carrying.

If by "tweaking" you mean deleting the ones he has, and replacing them with others, while hoping the switch goes unnoticed, then yes.
Otherwise, Unwired is pretty clear on editing them being a no no. Besides, editing software would be a use of Software skill, and actual coding, which goes far beyond the time limit of what would be useful in an encounter with any sammy.

I don't see where you'd get that conclusion, Tymeaus. Here's what we know: simsense programs are 'recorded', use a special 'format', and use 'specialized post production techniques', and that it's a completely distinct method from standard software, which is utterly unavailable to any character under any circumstances. Anything else is fluff and house rules.

It would be nice for hacker too have a messed up Pistol-Skillsoft ready that makes the user shoot into his own head instead of shooting at the enemy. Just for the case that he hacks into the skill-wire-system of an enemy street-sam. Simply switch the running programs and watch the fun.

As for the original question:
RAW says yes
Common sense say no ("skillwire overrides the muscle control. You're either using your natural skill with it's specialisation, or the programmed skill")
Ballancing say no (Skillwire is very strong already. If it gets even better, it's broken)

I think: Common sense + Ballancing > RAW
=> I say no.

RAW lawyers will say: Common sense + Ballancing < RAW
=> They say yes.

Now you have to decide for yourself where you stand.

Yes, I know that per RAW, you can't edit them. I'm just musing on the interesting ways to do that if you houserule that it's possible.

Frankly, I don't feel that skillwires are that good. The costs are rather prohibitive since the AE, and the Essence cost ruins the deal altogether. Rating x 10000 , seriously? If you could funnel more than 50BP into gear, it could be feasible; as it is, the whole system is absolutely pointless.

That's what Move-by-Wire 2 and Restricted Gear do for you. You get Wired Reflexes and Skillwire cheaper and for less Essence

The soft itself is still ridiculously expensive, expensive enough for the activesofts not to be useful for the only thing I think they can really be used for: covering the gaps in your skill build-up.

It's Nuyen versus Karma. If you have more Nuyen, skillwires are better. No one said you have to do it all at Chargen.

Somehow I always happen to have a lot of holes to try and cram with my nuyen. Karma, too.
The problem is other options are just more effective.
Hell, a Reflex Recorder gives me plus one skill level for 10k - that's immensely better than one skill level for 10k for activesofts.

The highest grade are very expensive, but a mid-level one can still be extremely handy for all those skills you're suing once in a blue moon but will sorely regret the absence when you need them. Things like sucba diving, driving some sort of exotic vehicle or the like. Or even more usual skills (things like demolition, armorer and the other build repair skills) when the party's specialist isn't available.

An average wired skill is better than defaulting in those cases.

Reflex Recorders also cost Essence, and activesofts can have various enhancements. Multiple competing solutions are allowed to exist in the game, and their 'optimal' status depends on specific circumstances.

Except for Muscle Replacement, because it just sucks.

Blah blah depends blah blah. AE nerfed skillsofts for no real reason. They were a good option, now they aren't.

See, I adore Muscle Replacement. It's an incredible chargen option, but there are obviously better things to swap in later in the game.

Don't forget that pirated software costs only 10%. Suddenly the price is much more affordable. And even this 10% are still hard to explain as a GM. Who pays 4000 Nuyen for something thats transferred with copy/paste from person to person. And even if he did, why doesn't he sell it to the next 10 guys he know for 2000 Nuyen. The price would drop fast if this stuff was real.
But even if you have to pay the 10% of the price. Share it with a teammember or an appropriate connection that has a skillwire too, and the price is divided by the number of skillwire-dudes you know +1.
Rating 4 Skillwire in Alpha-ware is only 16,000 nuyen. You get a lot for those 0.64 essence. Even my mage has that stuff!
Ok you can't get pirated software at character creation, but as soon as the game starts, and you get money, you can buy that stuff. Your fixer will have all normal skillsofts. Its free 4000 nuyen for only copy/paste for him. He would be an idiot if he let that business slip away.

The only advantage normal real skills have is the specialisation, that almost equals 2 more ratings for some skills.
The option for rating 5 skillsofts is a problem too, but at least this stuff is personalized, so you can't use pirated software.