What happens if I use 2 ranged weapons (one in each hand) both with Recoil Compensation 3 and I make a Full Auto attack with each one?

Works as usual: Split dice pool, then apply modifiers to each of the two pools. For further reference see p. 150, SR4A.

Depend on what you mean by full auto, if you mean a long bursts then what modular man said is correct.
But if you mean a full burst, then that doesn't work as it's a complex action.

There's some debate about what to do with the uncompensated recoil. I'd make it count fully to both, because it penalizes the shooter more.

Does the OP mean 'right hand *then* left hand', or 'both together'?

Ah, American-style shooting. Shoot, shoot, shoot some more, and hope one of the bullets hits the target.

Or, as the old Western Gunslingers put it, "One good shot is better than six bad ones."

You don't need to be a good shot when you can put enough rounds down range.

Besides, SR completely dispenses with that. Your guns should have 5 RC minimum.

Right... Reminds me of a funny story I heard from some fellows that just got back from "The Sandbox"...

This idiot comes running at them with some bad AK-knock off spraying everywhere, screaming like a madman. Doesn't hit jack, not even the truck. They knock him down and strap him down. Checking out the AK, they find that the sights are set at maximum range, 300-metres or so.

Through a translator, they're told, "That is the setting so that we can kill that many infidels."

Apparently he's not the only idiot who thinks that, either...

Skill is still needed. And, well, I guess in this day and age, "1 good shot is better than 30 bad ones." On the flipside, I'm really glad he was such a lousy shot.

uh, This is so wrong it should just stand on it's own.

you end up on your back hoping the medic can relocate your shoulders without too much pain. Seriously Rambo momments aside since you can't properly brace the weapon withonly one hand you should get full recoil for both weapons on all shots-forexample the unbraced right hand gun is going to be shaking you so it is also going to be throwing off the left hand gun even IF that is just firing SS.

Again, in Shadowrun, one shot is *not* better. All you need is RC.

It also depends on if you want to hurt someone, or just get them to take cover. If you fill an area with suppressive fire while running across a hallway, it makes the enemy stay down and generally not shoot back at you while exposed. This can be done with a single weapon rather than two, but if you are in an action movie, sometimes two looks cooler.

Wrong's a relative term when it comes down to miniguns in confined space.

Someone else's problem field?

Quickie maths check...

Lets pretend I'm some kind of lunatic with sixteen dice in the pool, a Uzi in each hand, RC 3 on each gun, Ambidextrous, firing at a single target.

First Simple Action: fire a three round burst from each gun. Eight dice a time.

Second Simple Action: same again, but now I have uncompensated recoil modifiers. How do I stack them up?

Eight dice for right hand, drop two for the recoil leaves six (five rounds after the first, less the three points of RC).

Eight dice for the left hand, drop two for the recoil (for that hand only), and then another two for the recoil from the first hand, leaves four.

Am I right or otherwise?

Messy. If one hand transfers to the other, why not both directions at once? Your options include (but probably are not limited to):
1. Neither hand affects the other
2. Only one hand affects the other (huh?)
3. Both hands affect the others.

Honestly, I do not know the answer here, after all the threads on this same topic. It never comes up, luckily. It does seem like your example (#2) is the least tenable.

And that's why a pair of cyberarms with Gyro-stabilizers are a nice idea.

I guess. It's easy enough to get RC 5 anyway, and there's the ORAW STR->RC rule.

Fields of Fire, second edition. Loved that book.

Smeg it, I'll just have them track recoil per gun, should it come up.

Yeah, well, it comes up in my group, I'm pulling out my "Little Suzy Bullet Sponge" home rules.

That's exaclty my problem too.
I think I'll stick with "any uncompensated recoil is applyied to both weapons".

To elaborate on this, firing a weapon set to full auto can be done in one of several ways, you may fire short or long bursts with a simple action or you may fire a full burst or suppressive fire with a complex action. In order to fire two weapons with the same action the action must be a simple action, thus you may fire short or long bursts whilst duel wielding machine guns, but you may not fure full bursts or suppressive fire with more than one weapon with the same action.

Which is what the rules actually state if I am not mistaken...

SR4A, p. 150 -- Attacker Using a second firearm
"Additionally, any uncompensated recoil modifiers applicable to one weapon also apply to the other weapon."

FauxKnight is referencing Arsenal, p. 163.

It seems to be:
Split the dice pool--use the smaller one if firing weapons with different skills.
Apply modifiers--Note SmartLinks and Laser Sights do not provide bonuses when using two weapons simultaneously.

Modifiers that apply to both tests:
Wounds
Uncompensated Recoil
Movement
Melee Combat
Cover

Modifiers that apply to individual tests:
Range
Tracers
Additional targets

I cannot imagine firing two guns at once at separate targets in different *range* categories. Jeez.

Yerameyahu--Range I figure would probably come in when using different classifications of weapons. Pistol and an SMG at a target around 6-10 meters, would be short for the SMG and Medium for the Pistol.

I dig it. I just had this image of pistoling a guy across the room, while sniping someone across the field.

Ever see that scene from True Lies where Arnie is running with 2 MAC-10's across a field and just laying death to everyone? His arms are crossed and angled to handle the recoil and shock of doing burst fire and full auto. Totally unrealistic and made for movie entertainment... but isn't that what some of us play SR for? To be the movie hero with guns blazing?

Well the rule is the same, but I was actually referencing the main book, SR4A page 150:



It specifically states that it can only be done with simple actions, and while this implies that it thus can't be done with complex actions, Aresenal goes one step further to actually state exactly that:

True Lies is supposed to be a parody of all those '80s and '90s movies... They outright admit it.

Or shooting at 2 different targets with pistols, one of whom is 5m away,while the other one is 6m away.

Or, as I said, shooting someone 5m and someone 300m (potentially much more). Pretty crazy.

Max possible is 165m(extreme range of an SMG with an extended barrel), you cant akimbo fire anythink larger then an SMG by the rules(not that i think thats a good rule)

Ah, good point. I forgot that using a two-hander with one hand isn't the same as 'akimbo'. Still, that's a big difference.

Oh, I know it's terribly wrong, I was actually just being facetious and hoping to get a rise.

We really need a sarcasm font.

Again, though, it is literally true in SR4. If you have RC, and why wouldn't you?

This is why I have the "Little Suzy Bullet Sponge" House Rule that I imported from Deadlands.

This is why I like weapons with the accurate quality in Dark Heresy/Rogue Trader. Taking aim with them (either half or full) gives you an additional 10% chance to hit above the normal aim action and every 2 degrees of success indicate an additional d10 of damage has been done over the normal hit, making it a might be easier to punch through armor and toughness mods. It actually awards you for taking the careful shot.

Of course, it also awards you for going full auto and giving you +20% for FA and every 1 degree indicate an additional bullet hitting.... But where is the fun in that?

"I have a Bullet with your Name on it, and i am going to keep shooting untill i have found it!"

"It's not the bullet with your name on it that you have to worry about, it's the one marked, 'To whom it may concern.'."

Nah, wrong.
"A Bullet may have your Name on it, but Shrapnell is adressed 'To whom it concerns'"

How's that work?

The "Little Suzy Bullet Sponge" (My name, BTW) rules are a variant of the "Random Stray Bullet" rules from Deadlands. (Read "Variant" as "Outright Rip Off With A New Name".).

For every person the bullet has a chance to hit, roll a D6. If it's a 1, congratulations, you just hit a random bystander. Isn't your mother proud of you? Shotguns firing flechettes (Buckshot, actually) hit on a 1-3, due to the spread, but are less likely to do much damage (Only a few pellets hit.). Short Bursts hit on a 1-2 with a single round hitting (treat as only a SA shot), long bursts on a 1-3 (Treat as only a single round, unless you're feeling violent, then treat as a short burst. Alternatively, a 1 means a short burst worth of bullets hit, and a 2-3 means only a single round did.).

If you have "Bad Luck", that number increases by 1. So if you play with long bursts with bad luck, you're likely to be hitting a lot of innocent bystanders.

I call this the "Little Suzy" rule, as it was a way to convince my group that indiscriminately spraying an area full of lead is a Bad Thing, advising them that "Little Suzy" would be the first person to be hit. This encouraged them to use Semi-Automatic weapons at best in Deadlands (One fellow used a Sharps .50 Buffalo Rifle. Single shot. He rarely missed.), saving full-auto weapons for vehicular combat when I switched to the Post Apocalyptic setting.

So far, I've only had to tell my Shadowrun group that the rule exists. So far, no one has tried to call me on it by spraying an area full of lead. Especially after I explained that even regular bullets are steel jacketed, and go through exterior walls as if they barely existed in the bad parts of town. Interior walls might as well be cardboard for the amount of protection you get.

"They say there's a bullet with your name on it and I thought if I had that bullet then I wouldn't be shot with it."
"I wouldn't count on that."
Black Adder goes Forth (roughly)