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Machiavelli
If i read it correctly, group contacts can have higher ratings than standard contacts that are limited to (6/6), but how do you separate loyality and professionality ratings? Does it e.g. look like (12/4) if you have a good contact to ARGUS or has a group only one single "amount" of points, so that it would be a "16"?

Also, is there a limitation in these ratings for a new character? I ask because i was about to create a runner with a decent (16/4) contact to Dunkelzahns Magical Research Department. Possible?
Fatum
Yes, 12/4. I do not believe there's a limitation.
Flip through Runner Companion chapter on group contacts, I believe you'll find your answers there.
Machiavelli
That is the problem, i dont have the book on hand. One of my chummers has it to create a new char. too.^^
Jhaiisiin
No known limitation at chargen. Your 16/4 rating for DIMR seems spot on. So yeah, 20BP for that one contact. And the fact that it's the DIMR, it could weigh heavily in a campaign, or even serve as a consistent source of work.
Machiavelli
So this means i will spend approx. 50 BP in group contacts and i never will have problems with my equipment/armor/weapons/cyberware/bioware supply anymore.^^ Great.
Fatum
QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Mar 8 2011, 09:01 PM) *
So this means i will spend approx. 50 BP in group contacts and i never will have problems with my equipment/armor/weapons/cyberware/bioware supply anymore.^^ Great.
Sure, you'll just never live to require any new toys with that kind of spending :ь
Dakka Dakka
QUOTE (Jhaiisiin @ Mar 7 2011, 07:36 PM) *
No known limitation at chargen. Your 16/4 rating for DIMR seems spot on. So yeah, 20BP for that one contact. And the fact that it's the DIMR, it could weigh heavily in a campaign, or even serve as a consistent source of work.
Isn't there a rule that no rating can go over 6 at CharGen? I think this removes the DIMR as a valid contact group at CharGen.
Ascalaphus
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Mar 9 2011, 02:37 PM) *
Isn't there a rule that no rating can go over 6 at CharGen? I think this removes the DIMR as a valid contact group at CharGen.


I don't think that applies to group contacts, because those modifiers to the Connection cost stack quite quickly. Suppose for example a dissident group (Connection 3 or so) with 25 members (+2), with a strong presence in the local district (+1), a handful of low-level mages (+1) and a few computer science students who host a popular website for it (+1) is already over the 6-mark.
Dakka Dakka
Well the rules don't say that the maximum does not apply. It is a general rule for CharGen.
Ascalaphus
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Mar 9 2011, 02:47 PM) *
Well the rules don't say that the maximum does not apply. It is a general rule for CharGen.


Page quote? I can't find any rule that says that.

Individual contacts just happen to be defined on a 1-6 range. Group contacts aren't defined in SR4A at all.
Dakka Dakka
QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Mar 9 2011, 04:00 PM) *
Page quote? I can't find any rule that says that.
My bad, the rule actually only applies to gear not all resources.
QUOTE ('SR4A p. 86'')
Finally, no piece of gear purchased at character creation can have a rating higher than 6 or an Availability higher than 12 (for more information, see Availability & Buying Gear, p. 312).
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Mar 9 2011, 08:13 AM) *
My bad, the rule actually only applies to gear not all resources.


Indeed...
Mr Clock
On the one hand that seems kinda bent, on the other it's fifty precious BP and a pretty permanent tie to a known organisation. Might as well have taken a corp job, chummer. Still, at least they have dental.

They do have dental, right?
CanRay
I don't know if I've asked this before, but what would DumpShock be as a Group Contact?
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (CanRay @ Mar 9 2011, 09:54 AM) *
I don't know if I've asked this before, but what would DumpShock be as a Group Contact?


Crazy?
CanRay
I don't know, the sheer amount of knowledge and experience we all have is staggering at times.

'Course, that's true of all gamers. I was hanging out at my FLGS recently, and another customer noticed a "Snag" in a set of chainmail armor they had up for sale, and promptly fixed it with what he had in his bag.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (CanRay @ Mar 9 2011, 10:06 AM) *
I don't know, the sheer amount of knowledge and experience we all have is staggering at times.

'Course, that's true of all gamers. I was hanging out at my FLGS recently, and another customer noticed a "Snag" in a set of chainmail armor they had up for sale, and promptly fixed it with what he had in his bag.

Indeed... We tend to be rather Educated, in a lot of esoteric disciplines nonetheless...
Fatum
QUOTE (Mr Clock @ Mar 9 2011, 07:21 PM) *
On the one hand that seems kinda bent, on the other it's fifty precious BP and a pretty permanent tie to a known organisation. Might as well have taken a corp job, chummer. Still, at least they have dental.

They do have dental, right?
Minding that they provide hideouts for drakes, they should have the best dentists ever on staff.
Machiavelli
50 BP is not that much i have to say. Put in skillwires or buy a MBW rating 2 and you can save so much BP that you will never have to think about karma or BPs again. The group contact is worth much more than the BPs it costs. Just imagine a corp or big organization with a loyalty rating of 6....no problems anymore....delta grade cyber without legwork, good clinics on demand, only the money....great stuff. Defintely underestimated in the Games we play at the moment.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Mar 11 2011, 05:23 AM) *
50 BP is not that much i have to say. Put in skillwires or buy a MBW rating 2 and you can save so much BP that you will never have to think about karma or BPs again. The group contact is worth much more than the BPs it costs. Just imagine a corp or big organization with a loyalty rating of 6....no problems anymore....delta grade cyber without legwork, good clinics on demand, only the money....great stuff. Defintely underestimated in the Games we play at the moment.


Indeed... High Powered Contacts, especially organizations, are extremely valuable...
Warlordtheft
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Mar 11 2011, 08:28 AM) *
Indeed... High Powered Contacts, especially organizations, are extremely valuable...


Of course that means they may diecide to interven for your own safety. With group contacts, a GM should carefully review this to see how it will impact the campaign (in a one shot or missions I don't see it as a big deal). It could potentially overshadow other PC's and ruin the fun.


On running contacts:
You need to maintain those contacts with higher loyalties (Above a 2)-the higher the rating the more effort that is needed. This means doing jobs/errands for them on a pro bono basis. Failure to do this might mean that loyalty rating goes down. Also asking a contact to shoot himself in the foot for you will decrease loyalty as well.

BTW-Where is this professional rating for contacts from? Connection rating to me would describe that aspect.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Warlordtheft @ Mar 11 2011, 08:49 AM) *
Of course that means they may diecide to interven for your own safety. With group contacts, a GM should carefully review this to see how it will impact the campaign (in a one shot or missions I don't see it as a big deal). It could potentially overshadow other PC's and ruin the fun.

On running contacts:
You need to maintain those contacts with higher loyalties (Above a 2)-the higher the rating the more effort that is needed. This means doing jobs/errands for them on a pro bono basis. Failure to do this might mean that loyalty rating goes down. Also asking a contact to shoot himself in the foot for you will decrease loyalty as well.


Agreed... But the value of the Organization (or Running Contact) is directly proportional to how easy they are to get hold of. If they have super high connection ratings, they are likely being pulled in a hundred different directions at once, so you probably do not have immediate access to them when you need it. After all, they are not just sitting by the phone waiting for you to call them up. wobble.gif
CanRay
Yeah, if you have Richard Villers as a contact, I'm sure you'll have to get past his army of harpy secretaries first. And those are just the Metahuman ones!
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (CanRay @ Mar 12 2011, 08:55 AM) *
Yeah, if you have Richard Villers as a contact, I'm sure you'll have to get past his army of harpy secretaries first. And those are just the Metahuman ones!


Heh... Indeed... wobble.gif
KarmaInferno
If they're so tightly connected to YOU, it means you're tightly connected to THEM.

So their problems can become your problems.

As a GM, you'd see me rubbing my hands in glee saying, "Oh reeeeally, you want that?"

A player might see "nice game mechanic". I see "plot hook".

smile.gif



-k
Machiavelli
This is definitely the danger, but if you deal with big guys, the benefit is also big.^^
Jewish Children
Don't forget that when using a contact to get gear, the cost increases by 5% for every point in connection rating they have.

They can get the gear easily, but it will cost you, in this case an arm and a leg nuyen.gif
CanRay
Or an actual arm and a leg if they're ghouls. Luckily, they don't have to be yours!
Machiavelli
I just imagine the meeting with your contacts when you pay the goods..."ok, i get the MBW-system, you get 90.000 Nuyen, 2 trolls, 4 elves and a handfull of dwarves...oh damn, i cannot change, does somebody have some human fingers in his purse?"....wink.gif
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