However:

If they are two distinct objects, then one needs to determine line of effect, which as generally stated, cannot pass through barriers without first breaking the barrier. Therefore the tag is not effected (unless you decide that magic can go around corners in contradiction to the line of sight rules).

If they are instead one object, in which case the whole object is effected by the Wreck spell, and takes damage directly, and in order to ruin the RFID tag you need to ruin the whole object (this is the case with cyber implants on a person: manabolt (and other spells) is (are) indiscriminate to the person regardless of meat or metal).

So it doesn't matter if we speculate on the one-object/two-object question, as it is irrelevant. You can't kill the RFID tag and still have the loot (can't have your cake and eat it too).

Why not use a "detect RFIDs" spell before attempting to destroy them? Also, there are HERF pistols, taking on even stealth or security RFIDs, especially if combined with nonlinear junction detectors. If in doubt, completely disassemble the item in question and then pick off the RFIDs. Erasing the datatrail ist not always a simple or quick task...

My comment regarding parking the van in front of the building was rather sarcastic. I absolutely agree that this is neither stealthy nor subtle, as I said before. My initial thought about "over the top" was more fueled by mentioning of biometrical anti-theft measures. I don't really know about the new gear in "Attitude", but anti-theft measures from "Arsenal" start at 100 (and way more than that, if you want the good stuff). So, outfitting every security guard with several of these "just in case" seems a little too expensive. Thus, it seemed extreme to me.


I second this (and comments likewise). Nobody even likes Tamanous. Anyway, see my check list for looting (minor things). Leaving a stripped-to-the-raw-walls facility will (most likely) affect the mission or at least raise a lot of attention.

One of my characters also attempted to steal used cyberware. He was in really bad need of money, an assassin who had tried to kill him with a fingertig monowhip had just gotten killed and he was in charge of disposing of the body. So he cut of said fingertip before, later salvaging the piece of tech worth 3000 bucks. Desperate times...

I don't really like the idea of players stealing everything they can get. On the other hand, I'm not against it if done in small amounts and done properly. I just want to keep a world of shadowrunners consistent and strongly dislike the idea of throwing in unrealistic stuff just to keep the players of doing something. I apologize if I unreasonably accused somebody of that.

Well, if you use Draco18's logic, though, you could not use the "Detect RFID" spell as it would not allow you to scan the objkect for RFID's becuase you do not have a line of Effect/Sight.

Crazy that, but that is the crux of his previous argument.
If you can scan for them with magic, then you can destroy them with Indirect Spells.

The target of a Detect spell isn't the thing being detected, it's a person. The only mystic link you need is to the target of the spell, at which point the effect works within the spell's effective radius (though I presume that the effects are blocked by normal astral barriers).

Indirect combat spells require both line of sight and line of effect to the target. You could easily cast a Detect spell and detect something through a wall, yet be completely unable to target what you detect with any sort of spell.

This.

Detect spells are not effected by line of sight (specific rule) while direct and indirect spells are (though in different degrees).

The specific rule on indirect spells and corners uses the example of "around the bend in the hallway." It makes no mention of finding pin-hole sized holes and taking full effect on the other side of them (such as the quarter inch gap under a door and a fireball being cast in the hallway effecting the room as if the door was not there).

I would have to check, but I believe that RFID tags are immune to EMP 'nades. I'm AFB, could someone check on that?
(More specifically, EMP 'nades and security RFID tags)

It is an interesting Thought Experiment, nothing more.

Or you know.. instead of building a character for the soul purpose of getting around the security measures in place to prevent you from looting everything that's not bolted down, and bringing a wrench for those... and making the char pretty much useless for everything else.... You could just quit being a common mugger, and play a shadowrunner?

I know you are not talking to me. My characters do not loot. Not enough percentage in it.

I know you are not talking to me. My characters do not loot. Not enough percentage in it.

It was more a sterotypical 'you' sort of reply. lol.

As in, your face!

Sorry, but it's a frickin' dystopia!

the corporation will start taking it personally

I disagree that using non-lethal means will make security all shiny-happy-nice towards the runners, though.

Where does it say that RFIDs are immune to EMP grenades? tHe EMP grenade itself says that they are very vulnerable and the Security RFID entry in SR4A doesn't say anything about being immune to pulses.

Security guards don't give a damn whether you are using APDS or stick-n-shock. If you are trying to break in to the place they are guarding, then they will hit you with whatever weapons they happen to have been given. And if they do use non-lethal weapons against you, it won't be because they are cutting you a break. It will be because they want to get you in the back room and start breaking fingers until you tell them who sent you.

"STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM AZTLAN" Has pretty much been rule one since Shadowrun came out hasn't it?

QUickly followed by "Never deal with a Dragon"

Which often circles around to the other rule?

That or never meddle in the affairs of wizards or conserve ammo.

Never trust an Elf, I think.

That or never meddle in the affairs of wizards or conserve ammo.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - JRR Tolkien