"Spider"
Troll Changeling Physical Adept

Attributes
Body 7
Agility 4
Reaction 4(7)
Strength 7
Charisma 1
Intuition 4
Logic 4
Willpower 3
Edge 1
Essence 6
Magic 6
Initiative 8(11)
Initiative Passes 1(4)

Positive Qualities
Ambidextrous-1
Adept
Changeling (Class III Surge)
Elongated Arms
Shiva Arms
Shiva Arms
Martial Arts (Sangre y Acero)
+1 DV Blades

Negative Qualities
Changeling (Class III Surge)
Impaired Charisma
Critter Spook
Extravagant Eyes
Day Job (Masseuse) 2
Combat Monster
Simsense Vertigo
Mild Curry Allergy

Adept Abilities
Multitasking
Improved Reflexes 3
Improved Blades 3

Skills (80)
Blades (Katanas +2) 6(9)
Two Weapon Style
Off-Hand Training
Unarmed Combat 2
Perception 2
Infiltration 2
Etiquette 2
Dodge 4
Pilot Ground Craft (Bike +2) 1


Knowledge Skills
Massage 4
Trid Shows 4
Biology 2
Blade Design 2
Local Area Knowledge 3

Melee Weapons Reach Damage AP
Katana (Force 2 Weapon Focus) 1(3) 8P -1
Katana (Force 2 Weapon Focus) 1(3) 8P -1
Katana (Force 2 Weapon Focus) 1(3) 8P -1
Katana (Force 2 Weapon Focus) 1(3) 8P -1
Katana 1(3) 8P -1
Katana 1(3) 8P -1


I'm wondering if I'm doing this right?

With 6 Weapon Foci, Using Two Weapon Style Fighting character would get 30 dice for melee defense (Full Parry)
(Katana 11 x 2) + (Reaction -2 (Offhand) +2 (Weapon Focus)
Character could attack up to 5 times a Combat Phase, splitting a 15 die pool. +/- modifiers
Each attack would get up to 5 bonus dice (3 Reach + 2 Weapon Foci)
Example assuming defender has 0 reach, and assuming defender does not have Watchful Guard ability.
Attack 1: 7 dice
Attack 2: 7 dice Defender rolls -1 dice
Attack 3: 7 dice Defender rolls -2 dice
Attack 4: 7 dice Defender rolls -3 dice
Attack 5: 9 dice Defender rolls -7 dice (4 + 3 Reach)

Character would get up to 20 attacks in a combat round

BTW I would never play this character or ever let any one of my players play this character.

Positive Qualities
Ambidextrous 5
Adept
Changeling (Class III Surge)
Elongated Arms
Shiva Arms
Shiva Arms
Martial Arts (Sangre y Acero)
+1 DV Blades

Negative Qualities
Changeling (Class III Surge)
Impaired Charisma
Critter Spook
Extravagant Eyes
Day Job (Masseuse) 10
Combat Monster
Simsense Vertigo
Mild Curry Allergy

only 35 Pts in Pos and 35 Pts in Neg Qualities
Its not quite settled (ruleswise) weather you need Ambidexterity 5 or 3 Times (for all your left arms)
I'm missing distinctive Style (at least 3+1 Level ImO)


with an unsettled Dance
Medicineman

At a quick glance, you can drop ambidextrous. You have Off-hand training, which makes it redundant. Could replace it with the martial arts quality (Arnis de Mano) and get another +1 DV to blades.

SURGE is a specific exception to the 35 BP limit on qualities.

not according to the German Runner Compendium (pg 77) which I consider as the more accurate Version
Surge III is a 15 Pts Advantage /pos Quality

with a positive Dance
Medicineman

Page 73 RC -
Metagenetic qualities chosen in this fashion do not count toward the 35 BP cap on qualities, as
long as they remain within the totals defined by the Changeling
quality. If the player chooses Metagenetic qualities with a total BP
value greater than the given thresholds, the excess cost or bonus
BP count toward the character’s normal limits for qualities.

Metagenetic Qualities do not count. But the SURGE I/II/III quality does!
Adept 5, Ambidextrous 5, SURGE III 15, MA 5 sounds OK.

biggest fault: you can bind only [Magic] foci and may only have [Logic] foci active at the same time.
Edit: Two Weapon Style, which is not called Six Weapon Style btw, works with range 0 and 1 only

The 30 Points you get for Surge III do not count towards the BP Limit (neither Do the Neg 15 Pts Surge qualities) shur,
BUT the Package Itself counts toward the Limit
Consider Surge a "bag " with 30 Pos and 15 negative Surge Points.The Bag costs 5/10/15 Points

He who dances in a Bag
Medicineman

Right, he still has to pay the 15 BP for SURGE. However, he's not over points on his qualitys which is what I was trying to point out.

EDIT: Running the math - SURGE III (15) + Ambidexterity (5) + Adept (5) + Martial Arts (5) + Enlongated limbs (overflow 5 from SURGE) = 35

I count 50 positive Points :
5 x Ambidexterity (= 25 Pts)
Adept
15 Pts for Surge III
and MA Lvl 1
--------
30 Pts in Neg Surge = 15 Pts neg
Plus
Day Job (Masseuse) 10
Combat Monster
Simsense Vertigo
Mild Curry Allergy

with a definitely positive Dance
Medicineman

Bah your right about the Logic and Foci, I totally forgot about that. I was wondering more about the combat aspect of he character, making sure I had my rules right.

Ambidexterity 5 means five points spent, that is for first set of arms
Off hand training is for second set of arms assuming that since you need to buy Ambidexterity multiple times for Shiva Arms, each time for a different set
Upper Right Arm and Upper Left Arm are Ambidextrous
Middle Right Arm and Middle Left Arm ...Off-Hand Training
Lower Right Arm and Lower Left Arm. normal so -2 dice to 2 weapon fighting style

WAITWAITWAIT...

Only one "Ambidexterity?". IF you want to fight with all arms without penalty you need to buy it once PER extra-ARM. (As pointed out in the description for Shiva Arms) That is 5x5= 25 points for that alone. Do you still got enough points for your Surge and martial qualities? NO.

Also you are burning so many points on being so incredible powerful in melee (but more prone to glitches than an usual melee-expert) that it borders on useless. So yeah... that one dude gets 50 boxes damage? AND... 12 is DEAD.

Oh. and i don't think anyone lets you defend with all but one of your Katanas by using the maneuvre TWO Weapon style. It looks ridiculous and stretches any believability that you are able to expertly block one attack with FIVE swords. someone attacking from just ONE direction. (Blocked is blocked).

Overall i have nothing against a bit shiva-arms madness. (I myself designed a Gunslinger with four arms for fun). But you CAN go too far *g*.

See ya.

His positive points pan out. He only has ambidextrous once (and the 5 behind it being the BP cost. Though I at least can see what your talking about now.)

As for his negitive qualities.

SURGE 3 = 15 BP for metagenic qualities. = Impaired Charisma (5) Critter Spook (5) Extravagant Eyes (5)
Which is legit.
Combat Monster - 10
Simsense Vertigo - 10
Day Job - 10 <---- again, he didn't take day job 10 times, its the BP cost.
Mild Curry Allergy - 5
Total = 35

Looks legit to me. Unless I'm missing something.

A character
with Shiva arms can take the Ambidexterity quality multiple times,
each time applying the quality to one of her off-hands.

Its worded weird but it means the same as per set of arms

OK, I misunderstood/miscalculated the Ambidexterity 5
and the impaired Charisma

with the wrong Dance
Medicineman

WOW. I don't generally like melee since everyone is a glass cannon in this game, but this guy looks kinda fun.

btw: why won't you let anyone play this character? Melee is at a disadvantage in closing to begin with, and your dice pool per attack is miniscule.

Aaah, i feel more and more at home again on dumpshock, now that these characters are popping up again ^^
By the way, has any of you heard the tale of Binky yet? *snickers*

Didn't he die whilist trying to run through a forest?

Binky CAN not die . . Even the Troll-Bow-Archer-Monster would have Trouble with that one i think ^^

He ran into a Pixie Houngan, I heard.

Even Binky can't be saved from the rediclous crash test rules.

*shrugs*
he's only in concept an equine hovertank, technically he is still a kind of character, not a vehicle, so the rules do not apply to him ^^
and if these were CBT rules, he'd never make it out of a forrest again and be stuck in there unable to move ^^

There's still a small problem : the character will have a hard time getting anywhere wlose to the law : I don't think there's even two troll-sized, six-katana-wielding runners (and even non-runners) in Seattle. Well, there might be one or two others in the whole UCAS. Which means tha teven the crappiest investigation will land him in the slammer (probably with a fast track for Death Row as a bonus) if he evers get caught by the cops for whatever reason.

That's going to bring in some serious problems with the law and should restrict this character to campaign where the cops aren't a concern. Note that even if playing only in the Barrens, the character will extremely distinctive and easy to locate for the buddies of whoever he happened to turn into kebab. Expect notoriety to pile up fast.

Baiscally it's a fun design, probably effective in it's niche, but not exactly what I'd call a playable character in most campaigns.

The combination does not work the way that you envision it. You would need ambidexterity or off-hand training for each of your five "off" hands, or would suffer penalties. The current setup would only give three hands without penalties. You certainly couldn't apply four weapon foci to one split attack - you can only add a single magical focus to a test. And the reach and weapon focus would be added before splitting the dice pool (as per the FAQ).

Also note that the rules only address attacking multiple opponents in melee, not making multiple attacks on a single opponent. I would allow it, personally (treating it similarly to using multiple firearms), but it would be a house rule to make it so.

That's silly. If you can swing weapons around haphazardly and hit a bunch of guys, the rules shouldn't be so picky about concentrating those attacks on one person. Maybe they should implement something like MRSI for melee. 48 base DV attack anyone?

Well, Each attack diminishes the dodge pool of the target.
so the third or 4th attack at least are very likely to actually connect.
and each single strike will do the full STR/2+x damage . .
so if each attack hits on a character with 10STR armed with 6 swords . .
that's 6x10/2+3(?)=48 Damage at the target. With just one net hit each attack. actually, no, each net hit increases damage, so it's actually 54 Damage . .
but the target can dodge each attack and only has to actually resist 8-10 damage each hit. and damage taken does, usually, not affect the resistance at all.
not like in battletech, where each hit is taken, not rally resisted, and you lose armor. so each hit does hurt you. and at one point, no matter how small the hits are, something will penetrate you.

Specialisation gets added after the split... Work your munchkin some harder!
And Glyph, the validity of the FAQ (and its ability to directly argue with RAW) has often been questioned, especially on a subject like this. But I'm sure I don't need to point that out to you.

The FAQ is in some disrepute, because it is contradictory to the RAW in some places, such as how a mystic adept's abilities work. However, in cases where I agree with the FAQ, that needs to be factored in, and in such cases, the FAQ should be treated as being far more authoritative.

Than What, specifically? Whether one agree's with the FAQ or not lends absolutely no Authority whatsoever, especially when there is so much disagreement on it to start with.

I think that's called a joke.

Hmmm... Not a very funny one then. Glyph is usually much funnier...

Dang, I wanted to poke some fun at Glyph for his last post, but someone took him seriously first.

Pg. 115 Runner's Companion
These so-called Shiva arms or Kali arms can be moved independently,
but they will still have one dominant hand unless the
character has the Ambidexterity quality,

So each set will have one dominant hand

Yeah... first i didn't believe it, when you wrote that yesterday.

But yeah... looks like had something wrong (WHAT?... what is going on here? I don't even know myself anymore *g*), but i looks like you need only 3 times ambidexterity for full-blown 6-handedness, not five. Sorry.


But still nobody blocks with five swords...

Watch Star Wars. General Grievous blocks with multiple Lightsabers. In some cases, with all 4 of them. it can indeed be done.

there is this 70's Sindbad Movie with a Stop Motion Kali Statue fighting with 6 Scimitars....
ahh, here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROssbvtE41U

He who dances with 6 Swords
Medicineman

In fairness, General Grievous is hardly a source for a logical argument.

Cyberzombie Mystical Adept.

Ah, that is a GREAT example of what i am speaking of. Of course it is a bit crude (but awesome).

This statue has 6 arms, but you can clearly see that is it just doing the same motions with two arms maximum. Your motions and power is not just limited by "number of arms" but also thyt you just have two legs and ONE torso. Not only do these limit your modes of attacks and parries, but also the limits of THREE DIMENSIONS. If you strike with one sword, you can't diagonally strike with another sword opposed to it.

If you strike with one side, you either add power by moving your body OR you add more attacks with other limbs. If you want to block an attack, you can only make a direct attack from enother angle or combine attack and defense, which in turn denies you actions with other limbs.

You can even see that principle in us poor 2+2 limbed individuals.

I am not saying that you can't carry or even USE six swords with six arms. But there is just a natural limit to what you can do, all additional effort is wasted. (and no fighter likes to waste effort)

There you go, bashing my examples again. Unfortunately, we have no REAL LIFE examples to provide (I have yet to see a real 6 armed person). As it is a Science-Fantasy Game, providing a Science-Fantasy Example should suffice.

Parrying with multiple weapons, wielded by multiple arms, is mechanically sound.

I think that 4 Arms are more than enough.
You only have to Split the Pool by 4 (not by 6!) so you have at least 3-6 Dice per Attack and not only 2-3 .
I'm playing a Nartaki Elf Ki-Adept and he's very good with Swords
I don't think he would be that successfull in Combat with 6 Arms

with an Indian Dance
Medicineman

I like bashing your examples, is that so wrong? Also, General Grievous is just so incredibly lame. Hehe.

Eh.. in the movies: Yeah.... but not in CLONE WARS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXQx_QLY8XM

Well, back to this:
6 Arms: good, but not insanely good.

There is that I guess...

The other good part about playing a character with only(!) four arms is that you can name him "Forewarned".

Booooooooo.... Hisssss Even.... That was horrible Glyph.

Allow me to go off on a geek tangent for a moment here -

This is where Tartakovsky got Grievious right, and Lucas got Grievious wrong.

Grevious is not a front line fighter. Maybe when he was "alive" (and the funny thing is, he essentially is a cyberzombie, according to SW canon), but not now.

No, what Grievious is is smart. If you watch the fight that Summer has linked to there, Grievious keyed off of the one thing that Jedi have no defense against - fear. It's why Yoda always went on and on about not giving in to it. Watch anything else involving Grievious in the Tartakovsky Clone Wars; every time Grievious is on the screen, he is actively fucking with his enemies.. He constantly has them running scared, which gives him the advantage. The one time he goes up against someone without establishing a scary boogieman presence? Mace Windu crushes his chest.

That irritated me to no end in Revenge of the Sith.

Now, to what I was coming here to post - Really guys? Really? Two threads on six armed trolls?

Keep this up and you're going to give my wife ideas

I mean, I wouldn't say fear is the one thing (or even a thing) against which the Jedi have no defense. It's a good option, though.