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longbowrocks
Alright, so for my character this summer, I chose longarms with a specialization in sniper rifles, just because I like sniper rifles and they have nice damage.

I have three situations I want to be able to handle:
A. Fighting common thugs, runners, and such. Just a standard fight in standard conditions.
Priority here is to kill as many guys per IP as possible.
B. Being armed under high security. Getting by scanners and cavity checks and the like, while still having the potential to kill people from a distance.
C. The GM gets fed up with me or overestimates our group, and sends in a dragon or huge tanks.

Unfortunately, sniper rifles are not optimal for any of these cases, although they do pretty well in A and C. On the other hand, damage with the rifle will be within expected bounds, and there are things in the books that I can't kill (since I'm spreading my stats thin on infiltration, social, and guns). I just don't want to drop sniping.

For my secondary weapon skill, I'm looking at throwing or pistols.
Pistols will allow me to get holdouts, which are pretty good for concealability, and can be upgraded with all those nifty weapon mods that are so prolific in these books.
Throwing will open up very concealable weapons, the ability to use whatever may be lying around, and grenades, which will allow me to reign in enclosed areas (chunky salsa). On the other hand, that closes off all the weapon mods, which might conceivably make holdouts better.

What's bugging me even more is that automatics for A, and heavy weapons for absolute C would be perfectly optimal, but B blows that plan out of the water (even if I get a submachine gun and load it up with concealability modifiers).

Argh, No! In short, I'm definitely sticking with longarms for my primary(even though grenade launchers are a great way to get around a great dragon's "reroll hits" ability). What do you guys think my secondary weapon skill should be?
Dez384
It would be better and make for a more well rounded character to just take the firearms group. You can break the group and specialize with sniper rifles after your first run.

You may want to learn how to use clubs; hitting people with weapons uses the club skills.
Ryu
QUOTE
I have three situations I want to be able to handle:
A. Fighting common thugs, runners, and such. Just a standard fight in standard conditions.
Priority here is to kill as many guys per IP as possible.
B. Being armed under high security. Getting by scanners and cavity checks and the like, while still having the potential to kill people from a distance.
C. The GM gets fed up with me or overestimates our group, and sends in a dragon or huge tanks.


A => Under standard conditions, the weapon has to be available and effective.
B => The weapon has to be concealable.
C => The weapon needs to rank high against exceptionally strong targets.

I rate a sniper rifle to fulfill C under many circumstances, but neither A (raising eyebrows on a shopping spree) or B (size). A weapon planed for C can not at the same time be the main tool of the character, since the GM will not bring the usual suspects.

Consider:
A => Sports Rifle (with Spec.)
B => Taser or largest possible pistol
C => Sniper Rifle / Combat Shotgun

So Longarms/Pistols. Throwing weapons are hard to conceal in larger quantities.
Halflife
QUOTE (Ryu @ May 15 2011, 12:45 PM) *
Throwing weapons are hard to conceal in larger quantities.


Throwing Mastery Adept = DEADLY POCKET LINT


But yes, Pistols are awesome for concealability. Especially with weapon mods. If you are going for distance make sure you pick up the Magnification for your cybereyes/glasses. Ignoring range penalties will get you as far as your pistol can go.
longbowrocks
QUOTE (Ryu @ May 15 2011, 09:45 AM) *
A => Under standard conditions, the weapon has to be available and effective.
B => The weapon has to be concealable.
C => The weapon needs to rank high against exceptionally strong targets.

I rate a sniper rifle to fulfill C under many circumstances, but neither A (raising eyebrows on a shopping spree) or B (size). A weapon planed for C can not at the same time be the main tool of the character, since the GM will not bring the usual suspects.

Consider:
A => Sports Rifle (with Spec.)
B => Taser or largest possible pistol
C => Sniper Rifle / Combat Shotgun

So Longarms/Pistols. Throwing weapons are hard to conceal in larger quantities.

Thanks for the point on quantity of throwing weapons. I actually didn't think of that.

As for A, I was thinking more along the lines of "kill a lot of guys fast" not "won't draw attention" since that kind of fits under B. Sports rifles are SS mode (whereas snipers are SA), and I don't want to have to use mod slots to cover weaknesses unless all other aspects of the weapon really shine.

Last but not least, I wouldn't do a group. If I don't have at least 12 dice in a skill, I try not to use it. Combat is especially rigorous since you die if you waste too many shots.

Sounds like pistols are the secondary unless someone else has suggestions.
longbowrocks
QUOTE (Halflife @ May 15 2011, 09:49 AM) *
Throwing Mastery Adept = DEADLY POCKET LINT

Indeed, but I need to kill a large number of adepts before I can get over my inferiority complex enough to actually play one (also I have 0.36 essence on my build right now).
QUOTE (Halflife @ May 15 2011, 09:49 AM) *
But yes, Pistols are awesome for concealability. Especially with weapon mods. If you are going for distance make sure you pick up the Magnification for your cybereyes/glasses. Ignoring range penalties will get you as far as your pistol can go.

Maybe if I get krav maga with the "take aim is a free action" advantage, but I really just need the pistol for secured meetings and such. Everyone will be in the room with me, so no need to spend too much time aiming. smile.gif
Dez384
4 dice from skill group
6 dice from agility
2 dice smartlink
Total of 12 dice; easy to do.


Also, almost any gun plus sticknshock ammo. Sure you only do 6S, but they get the detriment of electric damage if you even just touch them and you negate half of their ammo. Good for pesky things like dragons who have hardened armor.
Ryu
QUOTE (longbowrocks @ May 15 2011, 07:57 PM) *
Thanks for the point on quantity of throwing weapons. I actually didn't think of that.

As for A, I was thinking more along the lines of "kill a lot of guys fast" not "won't draw attention" since that kind of fits under B. Sports rifles are SS mode (whereas snipers are SA), and I don't want to have to use mod slots to cover weaknesses unless all other aspects of the weapon really shine.

Last but not least, I wouldn't do a group. If I don't have at least 12 dice in a skill, I try not to use it. Combat is especially rigorous since you die if you waste too many shots.

Sounds like pistols are the secondary unless someone else has suggestions.

You need two shots from either weapon to take a standard target out. What is your optimal mod loadout for a Sniper Rifle?


As for your argument against groups, look at high agility chars. You might be happy with Muscle Aug/Toner 2+Suprathyroid Gland (Restricted gear) on top of Agility 5. You´ll love it to death using karmagen.
Summerstorm
QUOTE (longbowrocks @ May 15 2011, 07:57 PM) *
Last but not least, I wouldn't do a group. If I don't have at least 12 dice in a skill, I try not to use it. Combat is especially rigorous since you die if you waste too many shots.


Whoa, whoa... all that powergaming. That is a harsh rule. You won't use a skill unless you rank under "At least national master or heavily augmented level"? Whoa... really? I have played characters actively helping in combat with a skill of 2 (but a good augmented agility of 5). It works. Even IF you go against wildly fast or intensly armoured foes you still bring down their passive defenses (cost them dodge dice and/or action for full dodges).

longbowrocks
QUOTE (Summerstorm @ May 15 2011, 10:26 AM) *
Whoa, whoa... all that powergaming. That is a harsh rule. You won't use a skill unless you rank under "At least national master or heavily augmented level"? Whoa... really? I have played characters actively helping in combat with a skill of 2 (but a good augmented agility of 5). It works. Even IF you go against wildly fast or intensly armoured foes you still bring down their passive defenses (cost them dodge dice and/or action for full dodges).

I'm to used to watching our hacker flounder about with 12 dice in his dominant skill. wink.gif
longbowrocks
QUOTE (Ryu @ May 15 2011, 10:21 AM) *
You need two shots from either weapon to take a standard target out. What is your optimal mod loadout for a Sniper Rifle?

I generally have an attacking dice pool larger than my enemies reaction+body+armor, and the base damage of my sniper rifle is around the number of physical boxes they have. This game is so close to being OKO with every weapon anyway, why bother with two hits?
I want to go for the barett, but for now I'm using an HK PSG enforcer. Definitely need a smartgun system, chameleon coating to go with my armor, some RC stuff, then maybe some of the super power mods and accessories (firing selection). I'm still deciding, but I don't want to waste any mod slots.
QUOTE (Ryu @ May 15 2011, 10:21 AM) *
As for your argument against groups, look at high agility chars. You might be happy with Muscle Aug/Toner 2+Suprathyroid Gland (Restricted gear) on top of Agility 5. You´ll love it to death using karmagen.

Suprathyroid gland is going to need to wait a while due to my low essence, but it is a favorite of mine. I've considered a high AGI character who can default on every AGI skill and still beat the pros, but I want to be a bit more balanced for now.
If you're wondering, it's elf + enhanced attrib + metagenetic improvement + toner 4 + suprathyroid = 15 AGI.

I just... don't want skill groups. I'll review the math again, but that wasted point is going to bug mEEEee?! Whoa, I've been misunderstanding how skill groups worked this whole time! I might do just that.
I used to think that you had to start buying from zero for a single skill even if you had a skill group for it.
ravensoracle
I would recommend taking heavy weapons and use a MGL-6 and a Airburst Link. It gets a little pricey with ammo but can fit all the roles you want. It also gives you great versatility with the variety of grenade types that can be loaded into it.

A) A grenade is effective against groups of targets. Most of your lower level targets will be made effective by fighting in large numbers. The variety of ammo available from frag/HE to Chem/Gas make it a well rounded choice.

B)The MGL-6 is listed a pistol-version of the MGL-12 so I am making an assumption here but would say it is most likely the size of a heavy pistol. Not as concealable as a hold-out but much better than a Sniper Rifle.

C)This thing fires grenades... nuff said.

As an added bonus your heavy weapons skill for this can apply to larger Heavy weapons giving you a greater chance to play the tactical support role in addition to you job as a sniper.
Halflife
QUOTE (longbowrocks @ May 15 2011, 02:44 PM) *
I'm to used to watching our hacker flounder about with 12 dice in his dominant skill. wink.gif


That seems like someone is getting unfairly harshed on. I know with my hacker rolled around for most of the campaign with 10-14 dice and did just fine.
Ryu
QUOTE
I generally have an attacking dice pool larger than my enemies reaction+body+armor, and the base damage of my sniper rifle is around the number of physical boxes they have. This game is so close to being OKO with every weapon anyway, why bother with two hits?
I want to go for the barett, but for now I'm using an HK PSG enforcer. Definitely need a smartgun system, chameleon coating to go with my armor, some RC stuff, then maybe some of the super power mods and accessories (firing selection). I'm still deciding, but I don't want to waste any mod slots.


Single-shot takeouts require a net DV of 10. Body 4 + Armor 8 + Reaction 3 is already 15 dice. Two hits against that are an almost guranteed kill, a single one will likely maim.
longbowrocks
QUOTE (Dez384 @ May 15 2011, 10:14 AM) *
4 dice from skill group
6 dice from agility
2 dice smartlink
Total of 12 dice; easy to do.


Also, almost any gun plus sticknshock ammo. Sure you only do 6S, but they get the detriment of electric damage if you even just touch them and you negate half of their ammo. Good for pesky things like dragons who have hardened armor.

How can you possibly type ammo when you mean armor? cyber.gif
Anyway, sounds good for holdouts. I'm just hesitant to use the full rules for electricity damage since that means the GM will use them on me too, and I would need to pour points into BOD and WIL if I want to reliably beat a threshold of 3.
Halflife
Non-conductivity is your friend

Bod+Will+Impact/2+Non-conductive = 12 dice = 3 bought hits if they are all average
longbowrocks
QUOTE (ravensoracle @ May 15 2011, 11:10 AM) *
I would recommend taking heavy weapons and use a MGL-6 and a Airburst Link. It gets a little pricey with ammo but can fit all the roles you want. It also gives you great versatility with the variety of grenade types that can be loaded into it.

A) A grenade is effective against groups of targets. Most of your lower level targets will be made effective by fighting in large numbers. The variety of ammo available from frag/HE to Chem/Gas make it a well rounded choice.

B)The MGL-6 is listed a pistol-version of the MGL-12 so I am making an assumption here but would say it is most likely the size of a heavy pistol. Not as concealable as a hold-out but much better than a Sniper Rifle.

C)This thing fires grenades... nuff said.

As an added bonus your heavy weapons skill for this can apply to larger Heavy weapons giving you a greater chance to play the tactical support role in addition to you job as a sniper.

Dang! I didn't think of the grenade pistol.
Why aren't snipers tactical support?
longbowrocks
QUOTE (Halflife @ May 15 2011, 11:21 AM) *
Non-conductivity is your friend

Bod+Will+Impact/2+Non-conductive = 12 dice = 3 bought hits if they are all average

Ah, missed the part about it not just being BOD+WIL.
ravensoracle
Snipers are tactical support but are not optimal for every situation. Sometimes it is better to have a machine gun or other heavy weapon in that support role. To clarify heavy weapons expands your usefulness as tactical support.
longbowrocks
QUOTE (Halflife @ May 15 2011, 11:17 AM) *
That seems like someone is getting unfairly harshed on. I know with my hacker rolled around for most of the campaign with 10-14 dice and did just fine.

~eh~
Maybe I have a skewed view of "successful". I build characters to have a very high success rate in what they do. That is, when I'm not using my logic 1 troll's 6 edge on every other test to prove to my team that 1 edge is a waste.
longbowrocks
QUOTE (Ryu @ May 15 2011, 11:20 AM) *
Single-shot takeouts require a net DV of 10. Body 4 + Armor 8 + Reaction 3 is already 15 dice. Two hits against that are an almost guranteed kill, a single one will likely maim.

Yep. pretty much. any assault cannon, or any sniper + high caliber will do that, especially with DP 20.
Yerameyahu
Your demands are unreasonable. biggrin.gif But, the answer is simple: throwing is worthless for your needs. Pistols are *the* concealable sidearm.

As an unrelated comment, grenades (thrown or launched) are great, and you really don't need a huge DP. They're grenades; just get them close. I assume the MGL-6 is either too bulky to conceal, or at *least* Machine Pistol size, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't have one anyway. smile.gif
longbowrocks
I got some great advice here, and even learned something new. Thanks everyone!
ravensoracle
I could agree with machine pistol sized for the MGL-6. I would definitely say it is no smaller than a heavy pistol for those that want to argue that it is described as the "pistol-version." That is the problem when it doesn't outright say it. My guess would be it is somewhere around heavy to machine pistol in size by the pic in the book.
Glyph
Grenades are awesome (and I love the pistol one), but they have two main drawbacks:

1) Being able to affect an area, and potentially more than one target, is great, but it also means that they are kind of indiscriminate in their damage. Not the go-to tool for a jumble of combatants, a hostage situation, or when civilians are in the line of fire.

2) Grenades are like assault rifles - you use one, and you attract lots and lots of the wrong kind of attention. Like, a SWAT team, instead of a squad car.


One other note: while it is not the most optimal choice, purely concealability-wise, a short-barreled Defiance T-250 is, for all intents and purposes, basically a heavy pistol that uses the longarms skill.
longbowrocks
Well, 2 higher on concealability, but yeah, pretty close.

Has anyone else noticed that "concealability" gets redlined by the dumpshock spell-checker?
ravensoracle
Grenades may not be the best choice in a situation but it does cover what he was wanting to cover with some flexibility when it comes to ammunition choice.
Udoshi
An alternative to a pistol may be a Gyrojet Pistol. Its basically the exact same stats as a heavy pistol. The downside is that its an Exotic, which blows.

There are two upsides. One is that it not only works underwater, it works better underwater. The second is that Gyrojet ammo, being rockets, can also be missiles or take seeker warheads so you can fire them indirectly, or possibly a sensor rating. Their ammo is a little pricier, but if you make or tweak your own with Hardware/Armorer, then its actually affordable. The idea being, if you can fire around corners, then you don't need to spend as many shots because you have surprise.


Probably not worth it, but i thought I'd toss it out there.
longbowrocks
QUOTE (Udoshi @ May 15 2011, 01:41 PM) *
An alternative to a pistol may be a Gyrojet Pistol. Its basically the exact same stats as a heavy pistol. The downside is that its an Exotic, which blows.

There are two upsides. One is that it not only works underwater, it works better underwater. The second is that Gyrojet ammo, being rockets, can also be missiles or take seeker warheads so you can fire them indirectly, or possibly a sensor rating. Their ammo is a little pricier, but if you make or tweak your own with Hardware/Armorer, then its actually affordable. The idea being, if you can fire around corners, then you don't need to spend as many shots because you have surprise.


Probably not worth it, but i thought I'd toss it out there.

Lol. A pistol that eats structures for breakfast.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (longbowrocks @ May 15 2011, 11:57 AM) *
Last but not least, I wouldn't do a group. If I don't have at least 12 dice in a skill, I try not to use it. Combat is especially rigorous since you die if you waste too many shots.


That is just... Wow... Are you serious? wobble.gif
longbowrocks
You use skills with fewer dice? Maybe our hacker was just unlucky, but we almost had to scrape him off the pavement every meet (electronic pavement, in the matrix).
Yerameyahu
I dunno if 500¥+ per shot is 'a little pricier'. smile.gif I'm also not sure if Seeker heads let you shoot around corners, when not applied to a missile (which are insane expensive). On a rocket, I think they just let you add hits to your otherwise possible shot: you have to be within range, have 'blind LOS' (that is, a reasonable path, though possibly through a light wall), etc. Plus, you're taking a -6, bleh. I agree with your original assessment: not worth it.
longbowrocks
Use ultra-wide band radar!
Whipstitch
If this build is a mundo and doesn't have anything thing as sexy as Initiation grades to aspire to I'd recommend just cheaply spackling over the concealment problem with karma rather than blowing a whole mess of BP. After all, a bog standard 7 agility samurai only needs a single skill rank, a smartlink and a specialization to be pretty handy with a stick 'n' shock loaded Morrissey Élan and an improved range finder will let you fire up to 15 meters before you start hitting any penalties and you can afford all of that after a successful run or two easy. Is that impressive? Gods, no. But as a compliment to the chameleon coated T-250 you hide under your Lined Coat whip-it sling style it's a pretty damn nice luxury.
Faraday
Situation A: A pair of Viper Sliverguns in concealable/quick-draw holsters, as they have decent concealability (+0) and a non-terrible range combined with rather effective (better than a SMG) and SOUND SUPPRESSED firepower. They're also legal to carry with a permit. Recoil can be tricky to manage if you just use one at a time. The ammo is also kinda expensive. Also, modding one to full-auto is relatively simple, which opens up suppressive fire.

Situation B: Any taser. My favorite is Defiance EX Shocker with a laser sight on top. Legal to carry, no permit required. It's only SS mode for firing, but that gives you a little time to aim and then shoot to help conserve ammo. Generally a simple action to take aim, a free action to call a shot, and then second simple to fire. It's also effective in melee and packs a heavier punch than almost any other non-heavy weapon.

Situation C: Heavy weapons. If you need to do as much damage as you can as quickly as you can to a heavily-armored target, this is the go-to skill if you aren't in a vehicle.
Elfenlied
Do you have access to the German print of the Arsenal? If so, you'll have access to the Altmayr SP, a pistol-sized shotgun that uses the longarms skill. You can't silence it, but slap on SA firemode, and you have something that packs a punch.

Failing that, my suggestion would be pistols. A Morrissey Elan gets past MAD scanners, and it still deals 8P if you use a called shot. This is ideal for situation B. For situation A, get either a modded-out Ruger Super Warhawk or a Ruger Thunderbolt. The revolver can be modded to SA with 8(cy), and has a high base damage. Upgrade the Thunderbolt with an additional clip, and expand both of them, and slap on SA/FA mode (remember, they both only cost 1 slot each).
Mäx
For a conselable weapon, Fichetti Tiffani Needler hold-out has pretty damm nice damage code for such a small weapon (8P(f ) AP+5).
Udoshi
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 15 2011, 09:16 PM) *
I dunno if 500¥+ per shot is 'a little pricier'. smile.gif I'm also not sure if Seeker heads let you shoot around corners, when not applied to a missile (which are insane expensive). On a rocket, I think they just let you add hits to your otherwise possible shot: you have to be within range, have 'blind LOS' (that is, a reasonable path, though possibly through a light wall), etc. Plus, you're taking a -6, bleh. I agree with your original assessment: not worth it.


I believe its 500 per 10, actually, since gyrojet ammo doesn't come in stacks of 1. Which

.... if your gm rules otherwise, yeah, absolutely not worth it.

Using Information Guided attacks with a smartlink instead of Indirect Fire makes it a bit better, because you can take a second to lock-on to someone before firing. Thats only a -4, you can a +2 from your smartlink, you get net hits to the actual attack, and its a simple action, so you can lock-on and fire in one pass.
Better yet, you can make an info-guided lock-on using a smartlink, using your ranged combat dice pool instead of what you use for a sensor test. I think thats sensor+perception-signature.

Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (longbowrocks @ May 15 2011, 08:14 PM) *
You use skills with fewer dice? Maybe our hacker was just unlucky, but we almost had to scrape him off the pavement every meet (electronic pavement, in the matrix).


Indeed I do...

Lets see.

My Current 300+ Point character (Cyberlogician) has 82 Skills, and most of the rolls are from 7-11 Dice. Only in his Hacking and Pistol skills are they generally greater than 12 dice. Hacking/Electronics rolls are at 14-15 Dice, Pistols is at 14 Dice. Situational Modifiers apply of course, and are not included here. Has an Edge of 2 and Bad Luck.

My Current Magician Character is throwing 10-11 Dice for Specialty Spellcasting/Ritual Casting (Manipulation Spells), 9 Dice for Drain (11 for his Limited Spells), and 10 Dice for Influence Skills. Almost all Other skills are between 8-10 dice. Has an Edge of 3.

My Ganger origin character only has his Piloting Rolls above 10, everything else is 10 or less, generally less (in the 6-9 range). Also a Low Edge (2 or 3, I believe)

Most of the reasons the dice pools are low is that I like to follow the guidelines in the Skill Table. If my character cannot be classified as a Professional or better in a skill, he does not have a skill greater than 2. If he is Professional, then he gets a 3. Etcetera... This helps to self limit the craziness of the dice pools. Not everyone in the group does this, but I do. Of course, once play begins, skill progression happens as characters receive more exposure and training in the skill. As a result of this philosophy, my characters tend to be well rounded characters, with a fair amount of skills. I know that not everyone on Dumpshock agrees with this philosophy.

I have found that it is often better to offset penalties in some way than it is to just pile on the bonuses. We have also recently begun experimenting with capping bonuses as well, so there is less incentive to just pile on the bonuses. Will let you know how that one works out. I personally do not like it (not that I pile on bonuses willy nilly), but the GM wants to cut down on the craziness of dice pools (not that they are all tha crazy, mind you), and he likes this method. May work, may not. It is in testing.

As for the Topic... I like Pistols for their better concealability and their many options.
Mäx
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ May 16 2011, 04:46 PM) *
Most of the reasons the dice pools are low is that I like to follow the guidelines in the Skill Table.

I really don't understand why, as that table is totally idiotic, how can you make desriptions of how good someone is at a given think based on somethink that's usually less then half of the dicepool for any given task.
Makes no sense what so ever, they really should have tripled all the numbers before the desriptions and say those are total dicepools, no matter how you get to them.
Yerameyahu
Udoshi, if you're using info-guided, you don't need Seeker heads (or gyrojet) at all. biggrin.gif I don't see why the seeker electronics would cost less just because you buy the gyrojet rockets in packs of 10, though. If anything, they should cost more for miniaturization. That said, 50¥+ per shot is pretty bad already.

Good point about the Indirect modifier, I misread. It's -4 for Info-Guided, -2 for Target Designated.
Lantzer
QUOTE (Mäx @ May 16 2011, 03:12 PM) *
I really don't understand why, as that table is totally idiotic, how can you make desriptions of how good someone is at a given think based on somethink that's usually less then half of the dicepool for any given task.
Makes no sense what so ever, they really should have tripled all the numbers before the desriptions and say those are total dicepools, no matter how you get to them.


I just assumed that the skills were paired with attributes of 3-4. Those are after all the average stats for an unaugmented human using 200 pts for stats.
Fauxknight
The sniper rifle covers most of your basics, shot for shot its pretty much the best kill out there, the only thing you need besides that is a conceal weapon. Take a Defiance T250 from Arsenal in the short barrel version and add a sling, at that point it has the concealability, range, and damage of a heavy pistol in a concealable holster but uses the long arms skill. No it won't stand up to a body cavity search, but get the ceramic component mod and the easy breakdown mod if you really want to hide it.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Mäx @ May 16 2011, 07:12 AM) *
I really don't understand why, as that table is totally idiotic, how can you make desriptions of how good someone is at a given think based on somethink that's usually less then half of the dicepool for any given task.
Makes no sense what so ever, they really should have tripled all the numbers before the desriptions and say those are total dicepools, no matter how you get to them.


Because those are the rules (or Fluff, in this case)... And I have absolutely no issue with them like most others do. smile.gif
I guess it is a style thing.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Lantzer @ May 16 2011, 07:48 AM) *
I just assumed that the skills were paired with attributes of 3-4. Those are after all the average stats for an unaugmented human using 200 pts for stats.


Which is not a bad assumption. In fact, it is the valid one per the rules. smile.gif
Whipstitch
Callling an interpretation valid there hits me as kinda weird given that the stuff you're talking about boils down to a table of incredibly vague demographics rather than rules.
Yerameyahu
It also gives us DP 11 for 'best in world', which is crazy. The table should obviously be at least doubled (quick and dirty), or rejiggered/disregarded entirely (better solution). smile.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Everyone has their opinions... smile.gif
Besides, Best in the World would be a Dice Pool of 16... 7 for Skill, 7 for Attribute, plus 2 for Specialty. Seems pretty good to me.
Yerameyahu
Now you're bringing Attribute into it? I thought the 'valid assumption' was 3-4 in everything? wink.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 16 2011, 09:24 AM) *
Now you're bringing Attribute into it? I thought the 'valid assumption' was 3-4 in everything? wink.gif


Well, you said BEST IN THE WORLD... Best in the world assumes that your Attributes are also BEST, otherwise you are not Best in the World. Skill wise you are at the top of your game, but attribute wise you still have room to improve. See, you have an actual range of 0-16 dice to indicate relative competence across humanity. Skill 0 and Stat 1, to Skill 7, Stat 7 and a Specialty. With that assumption in mind, the Skill chart works just fine. With Average humanity falling into Skill 3-4 and Stat 3-4, you have 6-8 Dice + Specialty for their Professional Rankings. Which is the Valid Assumption. smile.gif

And within that Skill 3-4 range, you still have someone who is professional, but just barely so (Stat1, for 4-5 Dice + Specialty) to someone who is a Sheer Genius at something, yet does not put a lot of effort into it beyond professional competence (Stat 7, for 10-11 Dice + Specialty).

Whay is that such a problem? wobble.gif
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