That's a great idea. After new years I have more time to write, and I'm still up for helping you. I just got hold of Shadows of Asia and the 6th World Almanac, should be able to find some pointers, there.

Did a write up of a few Russian cities.

Okay... read up on *EVERYTHING* you have worked on here. I must say, I like it, and I appreciate what I know we will be taking into our games here. If I may, allow me to drop some stuff in here as well as a beginning explanation as to why I am so interested here in your project.

History

In the HHH Games, from the very outset, I had convinced the GM at the time (more of a PG/Munchkin than ever I was) to let me have a Hermetic Magician/Shapeshifter Tiger back in First Ed about a month after the SR games release. He agreed. The history of Shivowtnoeh then kickstarted.

His father was one of the founding critters involved in the war. A Siberian Shaper himself who had escaped from captors earlier on in Eastern Russia/CIS. Shiv's mother had remained a mystery for a very long time, and wasn't fully unveiled until two years ago in real time. Yes, a great secret kept for 18+ years of gaming. Anyway, Shiv was raised by his mother for the first six months. After that, he was with his father on the various raiding parties, originally as a go-getter (think waterboy on steroids), then later as an active part of the AS/Yakut forces. His temper shaped into his first few spells, almost all of which were combat-related of course.

fast-forward many years. As things changed speeds, "Russia" was forced to focus on more and more events happening along the TS-Railroad, Vladivostok (in order to keep it economically with the ever-present threat of economic take-over from the megas), and the changes wrought all across Eastern Europe/West-Central Eurasia. Shiv was told to leave his homeland and go establish a new life and to act as a foothold, a "Landmark", in the PacNorWest, keeping an eye out for other shapers of any species and help them connect with more of their spiritual kin. In our games, we did not concentrate nearly as heavily as your recent works Fatima with regards to the military sides. We simply let things slide for a while letting rumors and FASA/FP/CGL just continue to sorta ignore it all.

Now recently, Shiv has decided to move back home. A few companions he has had in Seattle for his many runner years (51-74) have relocated with him and they have returned to Vlad-City. They are now working on establishing themselves anew. Taking time, finding and redoing contacts throughout the City and the region(s) beyond. It's been a literally "restart" of the games to a medium extent.

Anyway, Fast and Brutally Short History lesson over....

Background from Our View

First of all, we borrowed an idea created by the NAN-2 Book regarding the TPA formation and the bear shaman who established the communications grid across the polar regions using watchers and related spirits. We then, instead of approaching things from a military hardware and ground-war POV, we approached things by pulling out content from the Paracritter sections of various books. The Russians, ESPECIALLY the Yakutians/Siberians have an immense mystical heritage to pull from.

Whomever it was in FASA who made up Vernya (probably Down and Findley having an over-a-beer conspiracy) accidentally created everything else. I say that because Vernya remained the one Free Spirit/Being to never be seen by anyone of the outside of world. During our initial years of gaming (back in the dorms of Purdue), we had several friends whom were exchange students from Vladivostok and Sapphoro (Northern Japan). They helped fill in some gaps from their personal experiences of social and inter-social goings on. That is when I hit on the idea of exactly who was Shiv's mother. Shiv it turns out has a LOT of brothers and sisters.

Vernya, but not in a direct sense. Vernya has what we in 3rd and 4th ed would call lots of spirit pacts with (meta)humans throughout her lands, especially women. These pacts enable Vernya to all but guarantee any children the women have are shapers. The requirement is the women must mate with already existing shapers. Get about 6-10 of these women, and on average 2-4 children per three years (twins/triplets not being unheard of in the animal world or the human one), and you get some very specific reinforcements. Add to that any aspected background areas where shapers such as wolves, boars, elk, bears, eagles den/nest, and you can start to really influence some power base.

In our games, these "special children" became known as "the Landmarks". They served as watchers and facilitators for moving paranatural resources. They also were all linkable to Vernya herself, which would often have a two-way effect. Thus a "dream pact" situation is established between Vernya and her "special children".

Now insofar as power is considered, Vernya has to be massive. On a scale like Zebulon, Maelstrom or Oblivion as we know them now after the Storm Front release. We know that Shapers make up the behind-the scenes power players in Yakut now, which I find interesting in that the UN Recognition of Yakut can only happen if a sapient-recognized species is the formation of the primary government. Also consider Vernya cannot be alone. She/It would have massive connections to spirits throughout Yakut/Siberia, more than enough to exercise directed spiritual powers during any and/or all of the (ongoing) conflicts between the Yakutians and the Soviets. Conflicts and wars may be won in battle, but they are resourced by connections and networking.

What Goes Bump in the Night

I saw and chuckled some at Tias remarks. Not in a demeaning way, but in a "yeah, our group has had those talks before too" kinda way.

If you look through the various paracritter/paraspecies sections of books the idea of "sentient weather" isn't all that unthinkable. Not a puritanian methodology of course, but from the POV that many spirits and spirit-like beings exist up there that do not meet the norms for elementals/spirits of the more commonly understood natures. With the introduction of Plant Spirits we begin to see how it could be possible to quite literally regenerate whole forests in very short periods of time (days vs. years).

We also began to realize that Yakut/Siberia has territories that could stand up to anyone, even the Yakutians themselves from time to time. I'm still not unconvinced that Vernya her/itself is not somehow linked to Tunguska and remarks that can be found regarding India, Mongolia and shadow-talks out of Harlequin. I also believe that the TPA keeps a very strong relationship going with Yakut/AS so that it can retain the now decades old communication lines open with their land-bound peoples around the Northern Polar region.

As for fighting a guerilla war in Yakut/AS... you folks are messed up. The jokes about "ewww... big scary forest." Well folks, forests are made up of large trees, rivers, rocks and encompass mountains quite often. Combine that with powers and spells related to Fear and Foreboding, and yeah ... it really is a "big scary forest" in a quite literal sense. And we're not talking normal AoE for spells here. We're talking roving powers originating from spirits who used to work by "domain" and paracritters like the Gloaming Owl. And if the Paralyzing Howl powers of barghests were there, in the form of Awakened Siberian Wolf packs ... well, things get hard to do in a moral based situation. Leadership and Training would be sorely taxed.

Now... something else that has occurred to me here is that the massive Taiga areas and the forests of Siberia are described in places as having backgrounds counts and aspected regions within them. I kept wondering how on earth you would manage to keep any area of that magnitude aspected AND monitored. The only way to do that is with a large network of awakened beings (spiritual and tangible) and a lot of spiritual backup. And then you just neutrally blanket the aspect ... in this case "to the benefit of the land" instead of "to the benefit of Vernya". You learn to work with the land instead of against it. Don't harm it, it won't retaliate kind of thing.

more later...

I like the bit on shaper reproduction, mind if I steal it for the shadowtalk?

As for the forest being scary - well, sure, even mundane forests can be plenty scary; the thing is, going by the previously established fluff, Russian politicians are thinking in the XIX century terms of land and resource grabs, unlike the Yakut (so it's a conflict of worldviews as much as a conflict of armed force), so magic areas aside, it looks like it's all but impossible for the Yakut to win with conventional warfare. What Russia wants in the war is grabbing the mineral-rich regions (just like in RL towns other than at the southern end of Siberia are almost universally built around a particular mine), and I see very little in the Yakut arsenal that could prevent that, minding that they number four times less, are anti-technological, and have a civil war ongoing. Sure, the hostile spirits and the guerrilla fighters coming from the wild might cost the mining operations a few hundred soldiers a year, but since when does that matter for an authoritarian state or for the megacorps?

When the entire Russian Army can fall prey to Russian Winters. Weather Magic is not GGD level magic at all. Also recall there is a lightning-spewing dracoform running around the mountains in the eastern steppes harrassing jets as well (Target:SH?).

I'm not questioning the (meta)human to Paranormal numbers. What I'm saying is technological means are crap and have proven to be crap (until Blue 229 perhaps) when confronted with Weather Magics. I'm also pointing out that with the possible exception of Magadan, the Yakut seemed to have no real interest in the coastal regions for at least 100 or more kilometers (which is near standard ranges for the heavier embardments from naval cannon of a non-missile nature). Missiles (cruise and otherwise) also travel a lot less speeds which gives the Yakut forces more time to respond.

I also would point out that not all of the Yakutian forces are paranorms of that magnitude, and many are (meta)human varieties as well. A lot of the older tribal claims are still in effect in the late 20th/earlyl 21st century now stretching from V-City Northwards through Siberia and Westwards to the Great Eurasian Plains. The earlier SR manifestations have spoken of smugglers using the Mammoth's as pull animals. Okay... I used to laugh, until I realized something the size of an Indian Elephant had movement power and could work in teams and wouldn't sink into the muck the way Russian Tanks and Half-Tracks would (forget wheeled vehicles). Hovercraft (where possible), VT Craft and VSTOL aircraft were certainly the only way to rapidly deploy forces at any distance.

And that is the one thing that part of the world is in no short supply of. Distances. And when rail lines are so readily "reclaimed by nature" (don't get me started with plant growth and/or freeze water/shape ice spellcraft). Several years ago, the other primary GM and myself ran a series of tests using anything we could find out of the Janes guides combined with numerics of what was then 3rd ed mechanics and numbers. We specifically ignore the "Quake" power because it is without question the most broken spiritual power in the games in our opinions. Small Yakutian Forces could regularly wreak terrible havoc on military units 2-5 times their size. If one decent Yakutian magician (spirit of not) with a "Destroy Firearms" or "Destroy Heavy Weapons" or "Destroy Ammunition" spell and the game goes completely the other way. Unless surprise was somehow obtained, the Yakutians would win every time due to stupid shit like high frequency engine noises, engine exhaust, petro-chem fuels ... or just (meta)human stench. And since spiritual concealment power(s) and guard do not work against the vehicles with the same flexibility that they do living (para)critters, the russian mages were simply stretched to cover things too far.

The one kink in the road was getting anything truly solid on (meta)human numbers. "Pink Flight" (as described in the NAN books) occurred in Yakut/AS as well, but not with the same intensities as north america. I also could find little information on the (in)famous Russian "Cities not on a Map". I could track down maybe 6 of them (out of a rumored 22 or so), but none of them were larger than 50K inhabitants at the height of the cold war. And as of 2010, there were perhaps 3 remaining and they were all deeply inside what is solid Soviet/Russian territory along the Arctic Coast. I also noticed that the city of Yakutsk was so friggin far away from literally everything, that the highways and railways (none of which would qualify for an american interstate btw) were so readily cut off that it brought back historical flashbacks to the WWII invasion by Germany and how the Russians just closed the doors, gated the city, and waited them out getting only the occasional air drop of supplies from allied forces.

Guerilla Warfare is what the Yakutians/AS would likely go for, sure. But I'm sure that every so often things would get very "Wild". Having literally a super-pack of 100+ wolves (shapers and otherwise) accompanied by eagles, hawks, thunderbirds and lesser rocs being backed up by the bears and tigers ... mixed thoroughly with perhaps 100+ (meta)humans allies ... yeah, even a large soviet regiment is screwed.

But, lots of hypotheticals in here I realize as well.

You know, this bit I've never gotten. Modern-day jets are all-weather machines. They might not be able to fly through a full-blown tornado, but a storm matters little to them. Minding that Feuerschwinge was downed by a couple of jet wings, how are dracoforms a threat to outnumbering jets?
As for the entire army falling prey to weather - seriously, with 2070s transport aviation?

I believe most SR cruise missiles are hypersonic, but yeah, sure. Still, what do they have against those missiles raining down upon each of their town and villages? I've devised a spell covering from satellite surveillance, but any cruise missile with decent Pilot should be able to find the target metahuman buildings even in a rather large area protected from overhead observation.

Yeah, mammoth stats are in Running Wild for 4E; I believe I've included write-ups for those. Still, a mammoth is not exactly a tank or even a heavy IFV in what comes to armouring and weaponry.

Not all of Siberia is swamps, and the dry parts are traversable by wheeled vehicles. Still, judging by the fact that tracked vehicles are used in RL Siberia, including the swampy areas of the forests and the tundra, I kinda doubt the tanks are all that doomed. (Actually, there's even a Russian saying "Tanks are not afraid of dirt", meaning that the problems encountered are insignificant next to the effort put).

Yes, but even now a VDV division can be deployed anywhere in Siberia in half a dozen hours, with armour, artillery and all the good jazz. Distances don't matter all that much with planes, hydrofoil ships and LAVs.

How is counterspelling not an option against the usual area-effect spells (also, I presume you were using Demolish [Object] and Sludge [Object] spells from Street Magic?) Besides, getting to an established military based equipped with sensor suites and spirit guardians can be a rather dangerous endeavour, so I wouldn't could on the Yakut cutting it without losses.

Those were all opened under the DRA government in SR timeline. Also, their population numbers were always included in the census data (at least judging by the Soviet precedent).

I'd say that Russia doesn't have too many roads that'd qualify as interstate highways even between the major cities, if only thanks to the climate.
As for the cutting of the roads - well, that's absolutely not how the Eastern Front battles went. An exemplary operation with a solid concentrated force locked in a city, encircled and supplied by aviation was the Catastrophe of the Sixth Army in Stalingrad, and it cost both Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe very dearly.

The thing is, what do they have against tanks, heavy artillery and aircraft support? A single heavy howitzer salvo wipes any known position clear; so they still have to count on stealth, surprise strikes and going into hiding again. All the while, with drones, sats, spirits and astral space mages all providing recon info getting into fighting range covertly does not appear to be banal.

And herein lie the crux of the point. I have already conceded numbers. But I'm not talking "mundane weather". I'm also talking not standard mud. I'm talking mud augmented by spiritual power. I'm talking "Guard" power does not cover vehicles with the same propensity that it does (para)critters and (meta)humans.

You are talking about tons of first-rate, cutting-edge, tactical jets and related LAV fighters ... and I'm only going to say one thing (extreme example or not)... Ghostwalker. Everyone I know said all the same counters to the arguments that you have given to the entire thing. You are consistently falling back on the technological advantage(s) that the Russo-Soviets will have over the Yakutians. I'm trying to consistently point out that the game history of Shadowrun has multiple times specifically shot down the technological advantage(s) when confront with "equal cutting edge" magic.

Of course I know the Russo-Soviets have their mages and spirits. But in these numbers is where the Yakutians/AS forces beat the ever living tar out of them. Their have them beat on numbers and back-up. Background Counts of many areas are also in their favor. If I've got a count of +1 then my spell force 4's are now 5's. My magicians all went from Attrib 6 to Attrib 7. Oh, and all yours just went into reverse. My magical examples just re-shifted the balance against your stunningly advanced technology.

I also never once said I was raiding Russo-Soviet facilities or bases. On the contrary. Stay inside them. The Yakutians really don't give a second rate crap on that,. save where perhaps any toxins might leak out. Everything else has to come and go from those bases.

Now as for Motivating Factors ...

The Russians want the money-making resources. Even Vladimir Putin only does something today based on net gain, be it image, resource or final win. This hasn't changed, and is probably a really damn good example of Corporate-Governmental mindset to use for the SR universe. They want the Uranium and Plutonium mining access. And in all but a few examples, I've actually been seeing where the megas are already in Yakut making deals for that access. Now behold, I give you a new issue. A Mega with an exclusive right to one particular mine (for example) and an entire nation outside that facility that keeps watch. The Mega has more money than the Russian government in the time of Shadowrun. They'll sell the Russians what they want, the Russians don't have to invade, the Yakuktians get some kickbacks here and there and no conflict with the Russians (as a general rule, not an exceptional one).

The sole exception to this argumentative debate seems to be centered around the Saban Zaga forces, of which they have never been given any sizable details. I would have written those guys up a LONG time ago if I had been given any say, if for no other reason to figure out just what the hell they do/don't have to some extent. As it stands, the Vory are bigger than they are, and the Vory are said to be less than a quarter million in number world-wide. And I seem to recall early edition notes on the SZ forces being a lot of ex-russo military types and a mixture of disgruntled/displaced dissidents from within the Yakut/AS territories.

We could also then discuss the Wizard of Olkon Island. There's an anomaly that is against the Yakut/AS forces and aligned with the SZ forces. What's he got that can balance things out the way s/he/it seems to be able to?

I mentioned it before, we went spec for spec now for over 10, not quite 15 years on this subject. And we constantly find outselves at a very interesting crux to the discussion.

Too many unknowns.

It's obvious the Russian Military does *NOT* have the power to take the lands back or they'd have done it by now. Waiting their time isn't good for them. Large hardware ages badly. And the Yakutian/AS forces still retain their ties to the TPA and NAN as well as the likelihood to other awakened nations (some of which are doing badly as of the Storm Front timeline). The Russian Navy is now primarily in the hands/resources of yamatetsu-NT, a subsidiary of Evo Corporation. I think Buttercup likely has communication channels with the awakened forces in order to allow for things to remain at a benefit to her and her corporation ... or at the very least give her and hers a faster channel of response should major changes to the balance of power occur.

Which brings me to Kamchatka

The Peninsula, or "A Broken Tip of the Mainland Spear"

When we read about the earthquake the carved a channel between the majority of the peninsula and the mainland, we all said "MAGICAL BIGSHIT". Demolition capacity of that magnitude exceeds that which was needed to create the first Panama Canal, and has a LOT FARTHER to trench (90 kilometers for Kamchatka vs. 65 for Panama, when done as the crow flies).

We started to really question what that was all about. We started asking things such as what was on the Peninsula especially in lue of a pink-flight scenario and/or potential naval installations for anyone, russians or otherwise. The number of active volcanoes basically shot down most of the ideas. So we were left thinking of what was useful and valuable there. The answer was simple.

The same volcanoes.

The amount and access to such potential raw material from the earth was simply too vast. It had to be made accessible to everyone, or at least limited access for a few. *IF* the land bridge existed, then it was very likely the original etheric environment allowed for Vernya and her related terrestrial forces to reach the peninsula too easily and gain/gather/project too much power. Someone, or something, interceded. Hence, we looked at who or what could do that. The answers were few and far between.

GGD Magic ... lots of astral scarring, lots of sacrifice, too many people gone to be involved. Remember that a GGD is *VOLUNTEERS* to the Dance. Non Willing Dancers don't count and their sacrifice taints the magic.

Next up... and the far more likely choice. Great Dragons. We know that Kamchatka sits on the Ring of Fire, and now with the parageology book out (the ley line map was needed 10+ years ago IMO), we see that forces aligned to Ryumyo and/or Lung would likely interfere in order to ensure their ability to have at least equal access to the Kamchatka region.

Other options ... something that cause an earthquake of that magnitude with that kind of an otherwise obvious outcome? The only spirit power we outlawed during our combat theory games. Quake. 6, Force 12 spirits of great form with Quake could readily create a rift of that magnitude, especially if they were called upon from the Kamchatka territory nearer the volcanoes to the south. Thsi at least meant we had options like megacorporations, major magical organizations (IOND, Atlantean Foundation, Black Lodge, etc...).

The most likely entrants to this in our opinion were actions taken by one of the Great Dragons. It made the most sense, and given Geomancy of a Great Dragon level, it made very serious sense. It was also perhaps one of the few powers that Veryna could not readily counter magically speaking.

If we were to utilize items from the DoA games, then a great ritual could also probably pull that off. Wow, what a thought. But now we are without question starting to enter the level of magical warfare/firepower that Aztlan and Amazonia amassed and utilized against one another for all those years. No offense, that just sounds lame, annoying and not fitting of the situation in the Russ0-Asian territories. That stories been done before... I'd rather see and play out something with a different flavor entirely, ya know?

And I'm the guy who likes magic.

This is the one particular post I wanted to point out to you. Have you ever considered rewriting "Fling"? Serioius here. We have a mage that used the 4th ed version (unaltered) the other day for the first time EVER and the group nearly passed out. He was doing damage in excess of an assault cannot, more accurate than anyone with heavy weapons/gunnery could match, and instead of Flinging Rocks started Flinging Grenades.

He pulled a clip of his ammo out of his gun, AV stuff, and proceeded to use that as the "missiles" he'd Fling. Combat Helicopters were toast.

Someone started to hand him a "Grenade Spell" ... mercifully the other side stopped fighting before we got into that game mechanic headache. It was also before my character (who has a better spellcasting pool to draw upon) starting casting two Flings at a single target simultaneously.

And why exactly wouldn't it?

Well, Fueurschwinge? Besides, even Boorezmey is not a Great dragon.

Not that it has ever done so believably. Great Ghost Dance terror tactics? That, I can believe to be an effective tool. Direct fight? Nah, cut me some slack - just see the rules to see that a mage is a powerful asset, but not on par with a jet.

Uh, you notice that Russia (dunno why you keep referring to it as Soviet when it was last Soviet some 80 years ago) has almost ten times the population, going with SoA?
Again, mages and spirits are powerful, but they're not be-all end-all tool in a war. For a simple example: even if you only have a single mage, you are still perfectly capable of detecting an ambush from the Astral and clearing it with artillery.

That is a valid point, just like the area around Baikal gives the Sagan Zaba rebels noticeable leverage. I guess that could be fixed with mana lines manipulation, but that's a large task (that makes for a few plot hooks).

And? Attacking military convoys is far from the safest businesses on the Earth still. Better than military bases, but still.

Also, the oil, the timber, and so on, and so for.

"In 2044 Mitsuhama sent a team into Awakened Siberia to negotiate with the Siberian government for permission for its magical researchers to conduct studies there. The Siberians were in no mood to negotiate and sent the Mitsuhama delegation straight back to Japan. The talk on the streets here is that the Siberians sent all but four of MCT's delegation back in little bits, torn apart by shapeshifters, as an adamant sign of their refusal. And the only reason they spared four of them was because somebody had to carry the pieces back to Japan" © Target:Smuggler Havens, p.38.
Doesn't strike me as particularly megacorp-friendly.

The only issue for Russia in that setup is that the mega and the Yakut government are getting the profits. Which kinda goes against the stated goals.

Yeah, we know pretty much nothing about them at this point. Except maybe certain propensity for ice magic and them "getting magical artifacts" from the Olkhon Island.

For all I know the wizard was brought in by the 6WA, in shadowtalk no less, so he can fuck right off. We know that the rebellion originates on the island, we know that it's a very bad idea to go there, and we know that there's certain building activity going on there. No details.
As for the insurgents, it seems pretty obvious (from SoA, for example): a lot of people in the Yakut are tired of the shapeshifters' authocratic and technophobic rule, and support the rebellion discretely if not taking active armed participation.

A lot of things that should've happened haven't in SR; and vice versa. Take the Euro Wars I, for example. Or the whole CAS politics in what comes to Atzlan interaction in the recent War! arc.

Uh, any more on those? The NAN are progressive states (btw, isn't the TPA a NAN state?); they're green to a degree (with certain exceptions), but they're not Yakut metahuman-hating deep-green. If anyone, Amazonia seems like a natural ally for the Yakut as long as the alliance serves their goals.

Uh, what? The YNT is supplying most of the ships, that's obvious; since when does that imply influence or much less direct command?

I am not sure Buttercup has any more channels of communication than any other Awakened capable of astral projection, and I see no reason to presume she and Vernya see eye to eye on any issue, minding that bit on megacorp treatment in the AY.

Which currently exists in quantum juxtaposition of the 6WA Russia writeup and the 6WA Awakened Yakut writeup

Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky is in canon (Target:Smuggler Havens, 45).

The rest of that post seems like a mighty conspiracy theory, minding that
(a) the peninsula became an island when the entirety of the Ring of Fire erupted
(b) it's established that the Russian forces at the Shelekhov Gulf prevent the Yakut from assaulting it (same source).

Oh, and the mana lines map in parageology is better than nothing, but still shit if only because it doesn't show Russia on ANY of the region maps.

>Strength equal to one half the spellcaster’s Magic (Core AE 210)
So, let's say STR is about 3 to 4 for the vast majority of games and mages.
Now let's look at Arsenal Improvised Weapons table (p.17). The best we're getting is at about +2.
So? He's getting some 5 to 6P, AP 0. I kinda fail to see the big deal?

AV rounds AP -6. We have no reason to presume flinging them is doing more damage than shooting them from an assault rifle, so 6P AP -7. Typical combat copter (Eurocopter Tiger or Aztechnology Aguilar-GX or Nissan Hound) has around Body 15 and Armour 15. Average soak value after AP, rolling, is 7.6 (truncating to 8). Soaked.
Okay, he's bound to have more than one net hit, but still it's not like he's downing that copter in less than a few IPs that way.

Except that We are not talking the majority of games and mages anymore. We're talking mages whom could regularly have a magic attribute of 12-18 counting foci. Background Count, +1-+4 depending on where in Yakut you might be. Hits (by way of increased dice pool), Force and Magic have all increased. The AV round is only for the purposes of armor penetration ratings of course. Called Shots are possible, and anyone with a Centering Skill (mods) can get rid of those at the same level of the mage I'm discussing here. Also remember that aircraft come down BEFORE they reach total boxes of damage, or did that rule completely go by the wayside?

And if the mage is actually a spirit Flinging the spell, then things can readily MUCH bigger and much nastier.

I never said it was cannon in that part, I merely started to point out issues that would have to be looked at. I admitted conjecture with regards to why things happened the way they did, but any channel that cleanly "collapsed" smacks of manipulation.

And I won't disagree with you at all regarding the maps and Russia. Again, its like the writers core simply ignored it. It's also part of the reason I was very excited to see someone else on the forums who had a similar level of interest. Even if viewpoints may be different, it gives me new material considerations for our games.

I have another area I want to bring up separate in a few.....

I've read some of your opinions on WAR!. I admit the only thing we really did with it was extract any new gear, spells, and MAJOR points of interest. The rest of it a brother from Columbia and I discussed directly and he really started to laugh.

We agreed about Amazonia. We also considered the potential for Snowdonia given that the elves (at least some of them) and the dragons are rarely friends and the Duchess has been around the SR Block more than enough times to consider options. Admit to being conjecture however. Aztlan was one we really, really, debated. The AZ sourcebook and several other books all point out the inclusion of shapers and their related ilk in the AZ forces. Problem is as we saw it, the Blood Magic.

If you are supplier, and repairer, and builder ... then your influence is beyond question. You also get to wield all the ritual links to all those same items (the blueprints themselves).

I thought the treatment of megas by Yakut/AS was not universal. Certain ones were highlighted but not all.


Ha Ha Ha...

Because Guard power is not Force restricted, nor is Movement for that matter, on (para)critters and (meta)humans, but it is on vehicular attributes (body).

True... but if he had a single channelled elemental along for the ride????

Hrm ... depends I suppose. A mage sitting in the top of a tree under concealment with a pair of HP binocs can be hellish to locate by the jet, or the satellites, or even other magicians (needles in vast pine haystacks). I always figured it was why jet sorties would have spirit or astral protection duties assigned to them.

I'll have to look that back up. And I use the terms in freeform because depending upon whom you are discussing within the Greater Russian territory now is how THEY REFER TO IT. Generations, Tribes, Pop-Culture (Putin's current dislike) and more. It all works towards trashing a unifying national force that has to be constantly reinforced by the leadership. Something that is readily messed with.

I agree, *IF* You can communicate, I completely agree. And I am not saying it's impossible. But it can readily advanced to damn near improbably when dealing with distances again. Even Extended Area Detection spells run into problems when dealing with conflicting and/or dense biomass.

For us, it's the fact that we can't determine the strength of the plot hooks. the SZ forces would fight almost exactly like the Yakutians/AS forces... guerilla warfare and probably just as or even more so lethally (the Vory in them slipping through).

Again True, but better than going after an firmly entrenched base unless a real ace in the hole can be found.

Now this is the part that gets me. I recently read somewhere that petro-chem resources tried out a LONG TIME ago in the SR Universe and only being used as a term because of lab-developed biofuels and related breakthroughs since then. That might have been in the SR4 Anniversary book or in Arsenal, can't recall right now.
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Okay... stop right there. Mitsuhama is amongst the WORST examples of an awakened nation getting along with a megacorp. I am really certain that shadow-intel was more than enough to tell the Yakutians/AS that Mitsuhama is nearly A#1 on abusive BS.... even if this was years before the final fate of Tsimshian ... but long after the strip mining techniques in Tsimshian had started. Again, there were others.

The russian government goals... not those of the Yakut or Corps.

We started digging into russian/siberian folklore that we could find. One of the niftiest twists wound up being Baba Yaga. The old AD&D gamer in me (it doesn't play, but it recalls) started having fits about that old witch and wondered what kind of an encounter she would make. We also started to think of the former Soviet-era Siberian Prison/Camps in a way similar to Auschwitz, but perhaps not as lethal (the numbers of actual dead there are not known and most of those records are lost). But it made for evil ideas of things would not necessarily be on anyone's side either.

Okay... next thing that occurred to us here in the 2070's years.

Technocritters. We realize that magic and controlling/communicating with them is harder ... but it is not impossible. We had serious thoughts about the technocritter emergence(s) and the impact that could readily have on things. Sure, old hardliner shapers and mages would be distrustful, but Vernya would readily recognize them for the incredibly breakthrough they would be with regards to the conflicts and technology. And as we've read, technocritter emergence didn't have anything to do with matrix dense areas and occurred even in the oceanic expanses and the depths of the Amazonia Wilds. This would not be anything different.

Discuss that twist....

A 20+ Magic mage does not need Fling to down aircraft.

It's a valid theory (valid enough to be included in Kamchatka shadowtalk which I'm about to be writing just yet), but still, there are simpler options.

Frankly, I don't know too much about Snowdonia.
Atzlan could be an option (and there's no reason why the Yakut couldn't be doing blood magic to restore the taiga just like the Amazonians did blood magic to restore the jungle). However, the whole anti-megacorp stance prevents it, in my opinion, minding that Atzlan is basically a pawn of Aztechnology.

So, in your opinion, in RL the CEO of Severodvinsk military dockyards (which produce and service the current generation of Russian nuclear subs) has nuclear capability of his own?
No, I mean, surely Evo has solid political clout with the Russian government, after all, it's the only mega to call Russia its home base. Their influence is by far not limited by servicing the Navy.

I'm yet to find any mentions of their dealings with megas other than some of them being allowed mining rights under the watchful gaze of the shifters (which rarely makes for the best bottom line for the megas).

Can't see that in the power's description?

And? Spirits are Immune to Normal Weapons, but that just means they take a bit more Normal Weapons to disrupt, is all.

Concealment is troublesome, but a SOTA jet sensor suite has a chance to see through it. But it'll glow like a motherfuck on Astral.
I agree that most operations need magical support, though.

Russia: 144m (SoA, 125). Yakut: 19m (SoA, 140).

Haha, no. Not at all. Some demschizoid type with paranoid tendencies might call Putin's Russia the new USSR, but that's as marginal an opinion as it gets.
SR Russia has the NSS, National Supreme Soviet, as its governing body, but the "Soviet" in question means "Council". The leading party, National Soviet Reconstructionists, take their name from the name of the governing body as well.

You don't even need those, just see the auras from the astral. Getting back to your body to report is taking you what, a dozen seconds at most, with the movement speeds on Astral.

Against the Russians maybe (although it seems rather inconsistent to me that the rebels are fighting the Russians instead of getting their support at least until they oust the shifters and grab the power themselves).
Can't find anything on the Vory playing any significant role in the rebellion - they are generally not really frontline fighters.

That just means turning the country into something like Iraq or Afghanistan under the American rule: the resources are mined, and while it's not safe for the garrisons or the convoys by far, the insurgents aren't stopping the extraction.

There were tidbits on conventional resources running out, I believe, yeah, and the text proceeding on how gene-engineered bacteria are used to extract oil and related products from sands and other such inconvenient sources previously thought commercially unfeasible.

There are others, but most of them are not any better than MCT.

Yeah, that's why it's Russian government that's waging the war, not the megacorps. Although minding how restricting the Yakut are on technology, the megacorps would have their stake in the war.

Baba Yaga is a statted spirit in Running Wild.
And yeah, the GULAG camps are not exactly the German extermination camps, but nasty places nonetheless.
I find myself much more interested in the shamanic tradition of the region, but with the American tradition already in the crunch, I don't think there's too much in-game stuff I can pull.


Technophobic, remember? I don't think Vernya's about to embrace the critters that are adapted to Matrix any more than she's likely to embrace toxic mutants.

No, Baba Yaga is not, Baba Yaga spirits are. I'm speaking in the singular, unique, not the classification/grouping.
What do you mean? The Yakutian/Siberian tribals were very near iconists with a spattering of demons and animus thrown in for good measure.

What is it with you and technophobic? Background Hardliners might be, but we're up to 30-40 years of conflicts rising and raging. A lot of the earliest members of the battles are gone, replaced by new frontliners and those who see what weapons are being used on them and work and are SAPIENT enough to realize when something neat as hell can work because the shapers have opposable thumbs as well.

Infiltration has long been one the greatest weapons of the shapers. And that means mingling amongst the bad guys and using tech-stuff to accomplish goals. eCritters are IMNSHO Yakut's wet-dream. Biological beings with many of the advantages of the technomancers (SOTA upgrades), but not needing the actual hardware. And in nearly every sense of random encounter with the things, they resist being controlled by (meta)humanity and do what they want. Sometimes in a rather aggressive or hostile manner.

Sure, some things are not compatible. The eDolphins and Storm Dophins are listed as not being friendly with one another. But some of that could be an inherent problem with the forces that created the Storm Dolphins in the first place. But a wolf pack with a eCritter (or two/three) in it would have all the normal pack behaviours in the wild, and if not all the pack was Resonant, it leaves some middle ground for compatible goals.

I also had one area that RECENTLY was rediscovered, and caused me as a long-term gamer to have a kind of mental double-take/fit. Delta Grade Cyberware could be implanted into Shapers. Ok, I realize this is not likely to be common or voluntary process, but wow. Depending on the situation and the implants, that would be one hell of an extraction target by the Yakutian Awakened Forces.

Shadowrun has a long-running tradition of turning folklore beliefs into spirit types; and that's been done for Baba Yaga (and the rest of the creatures of the same archetype). While I agree it's powerful image with great storytelling potential, I try not to contradict pre-established fluff where possible.

First, they were rather different among themselves, just piling them all together as if they have a common tradition wouldn't be doing them justice.
Second, the Native American shamanic traditions were also quite a diverse bunch, but they all got bundled into a single Shamanic tradition in the crunch.

Vernya's not gone anywhere, and each write-up of the Yakut points out that they're extremely technophobic, to the point of making most of the country metahuman-free to clear it from the taint.

Technocritters don't have any qualitative differences from paracritters when it comes to training, so that's a non-issue.

I am frankly not sure where in the Northern Asia can one find a delta clinic.

Who said anything about going against pre-established fluff? I'm saying to look deeper into the consideration of a singular individual who is *ALSO* out there and not just the class of spirits that have been generically given the same name. At some point, we've even made out-of-game jokes that Vernya might be a fragment of a Gaianic-being that Baba-Yaga is a form for.

First, neither of us ... even combined ... have the time necessary to write-up the tradition of every shamanic "tradition", as that's completely the wrong way to approach shamanism anyway. Tradition is tribal. Shamanism is mindset, and even within individual tribes as part of great tribes the shamans' had their individualistic paths. North American or otherwise.

And I'm still not going against that grain.

Save that a collection of them, small in number, are Sapient as well. I'm also reminding you in saying that not all the Yakutian/AS forces are paracritter-ish, but are regular metahuman. And every post on Yakut states that as well. They may not be drawn as the "top dogs", but they are integral. I'm also looking at the consideration that an eCritter might be exactly what the Yakutians/AS forces need to listen in without hardware or metahuman "taint".

Ah, allow me some elaboration to my earlier comment. I'm saying that the Yakutian/AS or even individuals such as Ulric could hear (and even imagine) the horror stories of megacorporate experimentation. And the Delta-Grade implanted shapeshifters (probably some of which were attempts at controlware I'm imagining) would be something that would get their attention. Would make for interesting extraction story material. And if one or two of these stories turned out real, it would impact a lot of things.

New Additional Subject. The Bugs

Newest material indicates that the Bugs have not gone away. And in many ways, might actually be more powerful now due to their better disbursement and understanding of "modern" metahumanity and it's ways. Ares, and the others who have experimented, with the Bugs made their strides but are paying a spiritual price now for their actions.

Bugs in Yakut and Russia's Far-East. To the Russian's, I'd see them as the same problem everyone else has. To the Yakutians/AS, I see them as a serious territorial threat. A spiritual contender, one that neither Vernya nor the shapers would want around. The flipside is at least the shapers have a better chance of fighting off the Bugs. But attrition would become the problem there.

I'm also curious about the Bugs because they do need to adapt to survive and may not be as difficult to negotiate with if you were Russian Military than say, the Shedim that the UCAS has made pacts with. Also, due to Russia's expansive military history, many of the more militant/structured invae beings would have found infiltration a tad bit easier.

I can't find it now. There was a restriction on Spirit Powers and vehicles in that spirit force had to equate to vehicle body to fully influence it. That may be a mental throw-back to 3rd ed.


With regards to Channelling, I'm not discussing the benefits of the Immunity Power (though maybe helpful), I'm more interested in the increase in powers and physical attributes. We've noted even with the changes in 4th ed from earlier editions of the power, a magician (or magical adept is worse) who has channelled even a force -6 spirit is an immensely altered opponent.

And I'm going to sit here and stare at you always when you start in on the idea of things "glow like a motherfuck on the Astral." I'm going to stare because Masking and/or Concealment have influences here. So does being a singular being amongst a large biomass, especially a biomass admist a region with background count ... all of which influence perception modifiers.

Most of which is NOT in the eastern half of the nation. In fact, at most that population distribution is 20-30 million of Russians are in the eastern half if you extrapolate modern distribution onto the adjusted populace of the SR Universe.

I'm curious how to take this paragraph to be honest.


Again, to start with you're making astral perception so much easier than it is. Getting back to your body is easy to do if unimpaired. Impairment however in these regions is another thing. Oh, dumb thought just struck me ... seriously. Time out of body for Astral Projection is Magic Based right??? Remember that joke about Background Count influencing Magic Attribute too???? This can all stack up nastily in no time. I guess it's the flipside to having had a magic-heavy game for so long ... you become really f'ing familiar with how the goods and bads.

And the rebels are whose rebels? Russian Rebels whom are anti-Yakut, or Awakened Rebels whom are pro-Yakut (sympathizers?). I feel both (all?) sides have to deal with that issue.

When there's an official book going "Baba Yaga is a form of wild spirit", going "but also so much more!" is as much a retcon as it gets.

Still, just making every Siberian shaman a simple follower of shamanic path seems kinda bland to me.

So? Sapient paracritters, both hive and individualistic, are nothing unheard of, either.
In my understanding, if you fight against technology and the metahumans who developed it as much as you fight against the polution metahumans produce, you should be treating the animal products of one just like the animals products of another, technocritters like toxic mutants.
I guess rumours on Yakut technocritters can go into shadowtalk and spark a discussion similar to what we have here, even among the Yakut themselves, though.

Uh, who?

You'd think that between the American shifters who have to integrate into a wider corp-run society and the Yakut shifters who're building their own the megacorps would choose the American ones for experimentation.

I must say I don't like the whole experimentation plot at all. Of all people, Ares should know that bugs are not to be joked with, so them experimenting with bug possession doesn't make much sense to me.
The invae work best as a sort of a hidden threat, after the Universal Brotherhood has been wiped out (supposedly, cleansing also happened in Russia and Yakut). That is, a hive infiltrating a regiment is a-ok, a hive possessing a regiment after a regiment on their direct superior's orders is just out of place.

I joined SR at 4th, and I can't remember anything like that. There may be some obscure rule that I don't know about (like the vehicle armour not protecting against explosions or full auto shots), but yeah, nothing comes to mind.

"Even"? I think you may be misestimating the average power of the Awakened. About one in a hundred metahumans is Awakened, and most of them aren't nearly Magic 6. So when discussing the abilities of the Awakened in mass formations, I think it should be kept in mind that the vast majority of them are in the Magic 1 to 3 gap.
Also, even with spirit 3 possession, a metahuman is no match for a heavy vehicle in stats, and heavy vehicles are destroyed by other heavy vehicles.

Spirit Concealment is not working on Astral: it's hiding you from mundane watchers by giving a negative dice pool modifier to Perception; astral observers use Assensing, not Perception, to spot you. Masking also only allows you to hide the fact that you're Awakened, not the fact that you're there. Now, a dual-natured entity like a shifter might hide itself and a few others from astral surveillance, but those are even rarer than metahuman mages.
Also, a Perception test to notice a spell cast has a threshold of 6-Force, remember?

The conscription is not limited to the eastern half, and neither is headhunting for the Awakened.

Neither RL Russians nor any SR materials call Russia Soviet Union, nor Russians Soviets.

What is stopping you from flying back to your body at the speed of thought, when outdoors? Even if you have Astral combat initiated against you, you can still simply run, and shifting from Astral to RL you're more or less safe from anyone giving chase (even if they're able to find where you went to begin with).

Yeah, Magic hours out of body. Still, that's enough to fly around the Earth a few times even with Magic 1.

As far as I understand, the rebellion is not a nationalist cause, it's not pro-Russian or anti-Russian (hell, Yakut has some 40% Russian population to begin with). The rebellion is anti-government, and so it makes sense for them to accept Russian help as long as it isn't compromising their sovereignty - same as Lenin accepted help from the Germans, for example.

I will respond to more later, been a long day... Bt the channelling reference and magic attribute/spirit force thing was related to the part of the conversation regarding the one dragon and vehicles originally.

A dragon has Body in the 20ies, low 30ies with possession. A tank has body and armour in the 40ies.

Does a Jet???



And as for tanks....



If you use the "4 dice per 1 Hit" conversion for quick mechanics of NPC's ... the Stonewall in this example gets the 15 hits, and of course the power has to be above. We often have pointed out that "dragons with claws do damage as per book, dragons walking up (flying up, jumping up, etc.) and punching do Str/2, +2 reach".

And I won't even make the bad jokes about the Storm Front GD's in this example since we don't know of/have any GD's in the Eastern Russian/Yakut conflicts.

See clarification on the dragon discussion and jets.

Sorry... not true.


+ Modifiers.....

Actually, it is. Metroplex/Metropolitan and Semi-Urbanization are the conscription limitations. Also, I'm looking and population distribution from the early 20th to base projected estimates on. We used to use stuff from the 1980's when we started looking at stuff 20 years ago.

Not safe from Spirits, who have those speeds and the advantage in native environment(s). As for what is stopping you? Did you forget to see the Trees for the Forest? Ever actually played out a full-on astral-only engagement between two or more adversaries in a magically rich (background modified) locale and living objects (jutting rocks and trees)? Try it once, I mean seriously play it out. Get another player, have some fun, and try it. More lethal than you allow for. And btw, Trees and Rocks work against gunfire, missiles and such as well.

Actually, No. Puritanically speaking, Magic Starts in Vladivostok and dies somewhere around Moscow. 2.5 Hours per round trip at normal (non-initiatory) astral speeds. By that I mean the person with Magic 1 starts in V-town and dies in Moscow a cold and lonely astral demise.

Mostly I'd have originally called it Pro-Russian for those not wanting Yakutian Rule as that was the original. Anti-Yakutian for most metahumans then. And Lenin's situation was a bit more climactic at the time for the situation, just as this would be. This time however, "Lenin" would be asking the Megas for help since the government had failed already. For some reason I draw an in-game analogy to when California called for help, got the Japanese ... and more than they bargained for too boot.

A jet doesn't need to; the point is, jets are capable of blowing up tanks, they should be capable of blowing up a dragon.
Also, in your tank stats you forget the smart armour upgrade coming default, which brings it to about the aforementioned 40/40.

Which part isn't true?
Concealment subtracts a number of dice equal to the critter’s Magic from any Perception Tests to locate the concealed subject.
So spirits granting Concealment are not hiding you from Assensing.

Soviet army was staffed on extraterritorial basis: the conscripts never served in the region they were drafted from. I fail to see how a nation in SR would be unable to move its army personnel from one part of its territory to another, if it was possible a century earlier.

Safe from spirits if you take a moment to put up the wards.
I've played astral combats, but those involved combatants actually interested in perpetuating the fight, none of them willing to run.

Okay, my bad, I misremembered the movement speeds. Still, it's entirely possible to perform astral scouting in Yakut while chilling on a military base in South Siberia.

The way it's worded in SoA, for example, the Evenks forming the bulk of the rebels hate the Russians as much the Yakut do, and the rebellion is against the current rulers of the country (the spirits and the shifters) and the limitations imposed upon the metahumans by them.
It is pro-Russian only in the sense that my enemy's enemy is a friend - and that's exactly the logic I apply when I think the Sagan Zaba would deal with Russia unofficially.

Actually, when Lenin acquired German help, his supporters weren't even fighting a civil war, so acquiring external help is an overripe decision for the rebels.

Megas would be a viable option to call for support, but I still think Russia's bound to be involved for three reasons: first, even megas would be careful in their actions on Evo's doorstep (and in the zone of interests of SK and the Russians); second, supporting the rebels would still necessarily require going through the Russian airspace; third, Russian weapons are already sold to them (SoA again, Irkutsk description). From the rebel point of few, it'd only make sense to play Russia into giving them weapons for their struggle in exchange for promises.

All tanks have Smart Armor??? Where did this happen? What book did I miss for this?

Did you see that "spoiler" I put up earler? Anything like that I put that contains game book quotations, such as in this case the power of Concealment as a power detailed from the SR4 Anniversary edition specifically mention astral perception. The Spirit power of Concealment specifically gives that example. Assensing *IS* a Perception test, just using a different "perception" skill along with the same attribute (Intuition).

I didn't say it couldn't. I was talking about populations as a whole in that part of the paragraph and the distributions of such. Russia has that idiotic strip that is mostly for protecting the Trans-Siberian Railway Corridor to V-Town.

Astral Evasion, including pulling out from a fight, can risk the whole "running while not defending, last action out by the opponent left undefended" rule in the Combat area. As for the Wards thing, sure... a Ward is supposed to do it's appropriate job. BUT, you have to get to its protected area, it does not come with you obviously.

Of course it is, and I'm sure that it would be done. But I'm saying the risks would be higher than normal and the mindset of the russian military mages doing so would be a bit higher strung because of it.

I need to go back and re-read SoA, it was a good read as I recall but it still felt like it was written from an outsiders point of view who didn't even have friends from that part of the world.

Supporting the rebels would NOT mean going through Russian Air-Space. It can also mean direct-drops from on-high as well as trans-polar effects at altitude. It can also mean the Rebels *come to the Megas* for the supplies instead of dealing with Russia. As it is, the Russian Rebels wouldn't be rebels per say in V-Town, unless they were just jerks to begin with so they'd be a lot freer to move about as long as the normal channels were being dealt with respectfully (Vory, Seoulpa, etc).

I know if it were mine to amend, there'd be some serious changes to the Irkutsk material and the history of their paper and lumber mills on the environment. I'd also go into some serious reconsideration for Baikal as a whole, as the Lake is as massive as the combined Great Lakes of North America and sits on one of the oldest rift valleys left on Earth. Waaaaay too much there to be ignored.

The tank that we have stats for, the Stonewall, does.

It specifically says that "concealment also allows dual natured critters to conceal themselves and others from astral detection".
Spirits are not dual-natured, and creatures other than dual-natured do not hide themselves and others from astral perception (otherwise there wouldn't have been that stipulation in the rules).
Assensing tests are not Perception tests. Perception tests use Perception, Assensing tests use Assensing. Not all Intuition-linked tests are Perception tests, only the ones using the skill Perception.

Uh, you notice that all the major Russian cities east of the Urals sit along that line? Including Novosibirsk, Irkutsk, Krasnoyarsk, Tomsk and Vladivostok?
Still, even if Russia lost the Transsib, I fail to see how it'd be a catastrophe for Vladivostok - after all, Seattle is a UCAS enclave, and it's feeling fine.
Also, for determining the number of Awakened a country might find, the population numbers matter, the population density not so much.

What rule? I don't remember that one in 4e?
Running is a Simple Action, regardless.

You know, combat areas tend to be a bit more risky for the combatants.

T:SH was written by a Russian, obviously, while SoA apparently wasn't. But compared to 6WA, it's still Tolsoevsky.

Sending cargo first up and then down the well is extremely costy.
And going to Sagan Zaba territory from the pole would mean crossing the entirety of Yakut airspace, which is even worse than Russian for supplying the rebels.

They'd be citizens of a hostile state on the territory of an autocratic country. That's rarely good for your health; and even if acquiring weapons itself is hardly a problem, getting them across a border where border skirmishes happen can be problematic. Even if successful, the amount of matériel brought in a run is incomparable to what an open undisrupted logistics chain is capable of bringing in the same time.

How do you feel about my Irkutsk writeup, then?

Finished the first draft of Russian cities description.

Also, added some pictures to the draft. I'm not sure too many of them fit all that well, but oh well, beggars, choosers.

The attributes on the page are the final attributes, not ones yet to be adjusted.

Okay... first of all, a Spirit can be dual-natured if it wishes to be so, some part of it always remains on the Astral, regardless of Manifestation or Materialization status. And Assensing is the fancy word for "Astral Perception". Different medium or not, it remains a perception test.
1, And the combined populations of those cities is what in SR? Hell, what is it in 2010 and the last major census data out of Russia? 2, Seattle and the UCAS, as an analogy, is a city always on the verge of seceding from the Union and going Independent and/or Salish-Shidhe (depending on the political mood). V-City is more than twice the distance and far more remote from "Mother Russia" than Seattle is from "Uncle Samada". 3, But the densities is what allows for social organization to reach higher and higher levels. Also, density equates to social and political threshold, which is a major issue when determining infrastructure.

You would make me dig... I never remember the name.... "Superior Position" covers some of it now. Interception covers the rest of it. It used to be blatantly "Attack of Opportunity" because someone was attempting to break from combat without defending ones self.

I don't recall TSH being written by one, but that's fine. The material in 6WA I am constantly forgetting for some reason.


Not necessarily on the first account. Rebels may have citizenship in "the country they escaped too". Any for that matter, anyone not declared dead/deceased during the original uprising were still natives of the Russian state. Moving in/out of Yakut ... okay, yeah, that might be true.

I am still absorbing it to be honest. Whenever I am not 100% (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) certain of material, I approach critiquing it slower. Something I used to use as a cautionary measure during our old days of game testing for FASA.

Okay, I'm back. Re-read your Irkutsk and Vladivostok amendments (I'll call 'em that until CGL greenlights production). Irkutsk needs more beef to it because it is the proverbial apex of the Transsib Railway. Think of it as Wednesday to each directions Monday. I do appreciate the artwork however, because even though it is not end-product ready, it helps to break-up the text and shadowtalk. It also lends a bit of an idea to what you might be thinking or envisioning with regards to the write-ups. Kudos on that from me. I will see if I can find the stuff we had regarding the paper mills and fishing industry that were once rich in Irkutsk.

My initial overall summary/opinion is good. It is obvious your background and focus is military and not necessarily political-science (where I'm likely headed for new life). I am going to drop a link to your content to my game group here so that they can peruse it and maybe we can help you "playtest" some of the ideas along the way where possible. Keeping in mind, our games are more power-scaled than most and magic-heavy to boot ... so I'll try to skim the bias where I can on feedback.

That being said, the one thing I would REALLY like is an updated map of V-Town and Amursky Bay as well as Golden Horn Harbor. I very much liked the indications of an expanding underground cityscape, as I've often wondered why we as people in general haven't done that more if just to get the insulation benefits and get us out of the way of Tornadoes here in the Midwest US. In V-City, it means away from the obnoxious winters.

I think I would also like to tackle perhaps some of the chaos that surrounds Lake Baikal. At the same time, perhaps expand what would make the Lake region more interesting to Individuals and Megas both (hence, heightening Shadowrun potentials).

I can also help you *some* with regards to larger, non-corporate, organizations throughout the area. I liked the touch regarding the Russian Orthodoxy, and think that could still be expanded upon to help enrich things a bit. Maybe not tons, but some here and there perhaps ... including the Church trying to reach more directly to the East.

I will also edit out some of what's happening in our games, because a few of the PC's have decided that the "Hardliner Yakuza" and "Triads" within V-City have overstayed their welcome (as a partial response to what happened to Hestaby in Storm Front). A turn of actions that "Native Yak Clan" (formed during the Yomi years) and the Vory I'm sure will both appreciate, as may the Seoulpa.

And yet smart armour has always counted separate (because of the separate rules involved), and I believe there are published stats for vehicles with default smart armour high enough to reasonably presume it is added to the rest of it, not makes up everything but 2 or something

Beg your pardon, is that in the rules? Magic is not my strongest suit, but I'm pretty sure Dual-Natured is a narrowly defined critter power, one the spirits do not possess in their stat blocks.

I can't find anything in the rules on the Assensing Tests being Perception Tests. If anything, the chapterette called Using Perception uses the narrow definition: tests related to the Perception skill; as do the examples before it.

You can easily find the census data on the internet (even on wiki), but let's just say the population there is rather low, about 10 million in the million-men cities. The Yakutian population appears rather overblown, unless everyone up and left for the North at some moment of time.

I'm just going by precedent: if Seattle can be an enclave for forty years, I see no reason for Vladivostok to somehow fall apart the moment the Transsib is lost/

Found it, p.161, Interception. You get to make a free attack, and if you deal damage, the opponent's move is broken.

It's rather obvious to me that the writer at least knew Russian and either lived or stayed in Russia. Maybe not the author but someone who helped him.

Citizenship is an interesting matter. Supposedly, if Russia did not recognize the Yakut, it'd still think the Yakutians its citizens (although, of course, a SIN would contain the details on living area). We can presume that was the case during the initial uprising, since the Internal Troops were used to quell it.
Minding that this time the Army is used, and it is normally only used against foreign states, we can presume their citizenship is at least suspended.

Fine then, feel free to blast the thing apart :3

Uh, I'm afraid you're misundestanding the canon level of this draft. CGL is not involved in any way, and it started as an attempt to write an alternative to the horrendous War!
Granted, if CGL suddenly offers me to publish it, I likely won't argue too much, but it's written without future publishing in mind - so I'm not saving up space, not thinking how it'll all look on paper, stealing art, etc.

I agree it lacks a certain something, but I'm running low on ideas, and the existing sources don't help either.

Those are partly placeholders, to be fair. I haven't found any landscapes that'd fit the cities described, so maybe I'll rip something from the old books that works for the mood.
Or maybe I'll just add maps for the major cities (Moscow, Peter, Vladivostok at least) and call it a day.

I am en engineer, and it's showing. When describing a city turns into "there's this industry here and that industry there", it kinda sucks that I can't come up with novel ideas. This was intended to be a cowritten fan project, so the defects of one-man writing are starting to show.

I've talked about it with fexes, and I have his preliminary agreement to make those.
However, I feel capable of making those myself should the need arise.

I am planning to discuss it in more detail in the Yakut chapter, but yeah, sure, it makes sense to touch upon at least the chief motivators in the Russian one.

Any help is appreciated.

Gods, I've been doing research for writing the part on Awakened Yakut - it's strange, really. Nowadays, there is no single city larger than a million inhabitants in what is to be Awakened Yakut - but somehow 19 million people are supposed to live in it. And it's with everyone in the Metahuman Zone.
Okay, we can suppose that some neoprimitivist tribes are allowed out of the Metahuman Zone, and write a couple of millions of people of on that (although the real indigenous peoples do not live in communities all that large). Where is the rest supposed to go? Are Magadan and Yakutsk (built on permafrost) cities larger than today's Berlin?
What do all these people eat?

I would argue/debate with the original contributors that the population number has to do with some divided areas. It may also have to do with some population displacement.

Magadan is what? 45K? Yakutsh I seem to recall not being over 55K or so at the turn of the millinea??? (butchered that spelling). Raw numbers of 19M... okay,

Start with knowns, even if it means backpedalling....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia.... the Wikipedia article itself directly states that most of the population lives along the southern zone paralleling the Transsib Railroad. Allow for population displacement, and who knows how big some of that is. I do envision Irkutsk for instance being substantially larger given the position it holds and the megas involved, SK and Evo starting with Shiawase and Aztechnology not far behind given their own portfolio concentrations.

While skimming it ... and avoiding the Federal Encyclopedia ... we run into this as a base... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakha_Republic ... this is likely to be the "Foundation of Yakut" as the Shadowrun world knows it now. Check out that population number and then really start to gasp. Doesn't even break 1 million.

Okay, now I'm going to try to point out some things that may defy your understandings of social logic, but I am hoping you will bear with me. That population of 19M for Shadowrun's era is because of the expansion beyond the Sakha Republic westwards from the original map. Don't go south obviously. Manchuria, Mongolia and North Korea were their own issues. And we know now that Turkestan was formed out of all the other "stans" in the southern and western territories. What we do have left is a super-massive territory, 8th largest in the World by modern standards and filled-to-the-brim with (para)natural resources. We also know that the NAN is the northeastern neighbor with the TPA touching all along the northern-most coast (for some reason).

In the era of Shadowrun, especially the first three decades, you were dealing with something truly frightening. Goblinization. Most Orks and Trolls (and all sub-variants thereof) when occurred, would have been ostracized, banished and even just flat killed. Those that could would have run for anything resembling safety. Sakha (Yakut) province was arising as a territory that historically one could "get lost in" as people do today. How many people goblinized? What were those original numbers? 1 in 6? 10% if you believe the texts, but the texts indicate that this was a global percentage, an average. So some regions, especially those with higher levels of mana (hello???) would likely have somewhat heavier percentage expressions.

You also had a LOT of people who began to really fear for their lives against a government that was beyond the breaking point. Imagine the social order of that time for a moment. Put yourself there. Make it industrial aged, but not overwhelmingly religious. Watch the police and military move in to secure a variety of resources (including the Ob River Basin and the Reservoir, as well as the Pulp Mills along the south-eastern shores of Baikal opposite Irkutsk... mills that could readily be converted to other uses if needs be because they were, for the most part, vacant properties now.

*IF* you start with a population of 80 million throughout all of russia, and transform let's say 12& (up from global average of 10), that gives you a conversion population of 9.6 million, all of whom are spread out across the territories, but many of which are along the Transsib Railway or have immediate access to it. Russian government starts to offer to these "changed" the opportunity to get away from "civil unrest and prejudice" by allowing them to relocate willingly. How many would take it? Seriously... how many?

And then, just as the population is reaching an end to the transitioning period after Globalization, the (Para)Natural forces deeper within the interior lash back out at their now dramatically altered environmental socialscape (and the ensuing drain on local resources to feed everyone) you create the Wars and Conflicts that are indicated within the SR texts so far (although, no real justice was done to what likely is the real stories here).

Amidst all of this, you throw in VITAS, the Rise of the Megas (and the fact the Russians do not have any of them home-turf in the beginning for all their industrial might) and a few decades, and you get a lot of change. You also get a population who relocated... a HUGE POPULATION change. Now insofar as to where this population went, well... do you know what one of the strangest responses to stress is?

We call it Sex.

And Metahumanity is equally part of it's Humanist parent. The difference is that Orks and Trolls have differing gestation periods, but the former being somewhat faster in the earlier generations of Shadowrun than their Human parents. Goes with the shorter life expectancy.

I expect there are significant population changes. I would imagine Yakutsk is significantly larger, but not demonstratively so. I say this because to make it much larger would require massive resources transported into the interior ... something that the "militant" paraforces of Yakut don't want. That means locations near the Transsib on the Yakut/Sakha side of the border get expanded and/or built whole-cloth. It also means likely major expansion of cities like Magadan and inner cities like Severobaikalsk (northern shore of the Lake).

It is time to face facts with regards to certain elements... and the reason I blinked earlier when you mentioned that TSH had a russian contributor. I Yakutsk and Siberia both need massive work. And much of what we debated earlier in the realm of "war powers" and "militaries" needs to be seriously thought of.

First, it's established that metahuman hate did not rock Russia as hard as many nations (which made Vladivostok a safe haven for the Japanese metas, prompting a massive exile, for example).
Second, have you ever wondered why the Siberia is so sparsely populated, except for the southern edge? The answer is really simple: those lands are extremely inhospitable. Half of them are tundra, with all the vibrancy of reindeer moss over permafrost. Half of the rest are swamps. The climate is extreme continental, with winters easily as cold as -50, and summers as hot as +45 easily. Soils are poor, and vegetation period extremely short (why do you think taiga is made up of conifers, not leaf-bearing trees?) And let's of course not forget the swarms of midge that ignore any known repellents.
Which is why the locals mostly survive on fishing, hunting and nomadic deer herding- none of those capable of supporting a dense population.
Both Yakutsk and Magadan are cities built on permafrost, which means taking pains to anchor the foundations of the building to the deep permafrost which won't shift during the summer, all the while ensuring that same foundation does not melt the permafrost itself. Constructing infrastructure runs into similar problems. Which is why housing and feeding millions will be at the very least extremely problematic, especially with metahumans or metahuman tech limited to the metahuman zone. You say they'd settle along the southern border - but there are border skirmishes there, which in my opinion prevents any kind of large-scale building projects...

On a side note: why the hell is English the second most popular language in Russia? Western Russia I can see using German (with SK and Zeta ImpChem all over the place), Eastern Russia Japanese, thanks to Evo influence and the migrants...

Because the Sixth World Almanac reported as "Primary languages" those who were listed as "Major languages spoken" in Shadows of Asia, without the related percentage. According to SoA, 98% of the population spoke Russian, and 10% spoke English. Those would mostly be the people who studied English as secondary language at school. Wikipedia mentions a 2002 census reporting 4.9% of Russian population spoke English. With the spread of Internet/Matrix and more foreign corporations as employers for the younger generations, the 10% figure may not be that far-fetched.

We learn English in schools because the US is the leading economy of the world, and English is the modern lingua franca. In SR, Japan, if anyone, has that place, and Japanese holds the title.
And, as I said, SK and Zeta ImpChem are the corps with the largest footprint in Western Russia, Evo and other japanacorps in the East, and their corp languages are German and Japanese again, respectively.

And English will remain the lingua franca. Japanese is much more complicated to learn, and from a cultural point of view, the Japanese don't like when foreigners try to speak their language and mangle it. Whenever a corporation working languages are listed in Corporate Guide, English is either primary or secondary language. While Japanese is not used at Saeder-Krupp, Zeta-Impchem, Ares Macrotechnology, Aztechnology...

English is the primary language of TRADE. That detail has not changed. All foreign exchange students come to the USA are required to learn English not just for the classes because it remains the language of International Trade. Now, that being said, and since we are dealing with Awakening considerations and all the Shadowrun Social Impact(s), I wouldn't argue English being diminished in demand, but at the same time, English is a melting pot language now, especially American English, which all but rapes and absorbs components of every additional/secondary language it comes into prolonged contact with. And, just for the fun to consider, European Countries as well as Middle-Eastern Nations utilize English as the Language of Trade, thus the overarcing demand for it.

BTW: I'm Keith... "K" from the old days of the ShadowRN List. I figure I want my legitimate name here as we progress forward.