1) What's the area of the spell? How big is the darn thing?

2) What types of ammo does it work against? Sure, Stick and shock is now only moving at 1 meter per second but so is the poor guy standing in the field so, depending on the size of the field I'm not sure he's going to be able to do anything about it and it's not like S-n-S NEEDS any velocity. Which begs the question, does EX-EX still explode on contact at 1 meter per second?

The same as any other non-detection spell with an area: [Force] meters +/- 1m per die they withhold from the casting test.



That's up to the group. But it should be pretty easy to move out of the way of a slow-moving bullet. You're moving slow, but the area means you've got several seconds. All you have to do is not be in front of it when that time is up.

First of all, this spell was removed in the errata of war, which is included in the German Translation. I would guess you will never see this errata, like the Augmentation errata, but Jason Hardy still agreed to this change.

What both of you forget is, that the bullets also fall with 1m/s, so if the bullets were flying 1,5m above the ground as the enter the slow zone, they hit the ground after 1,5m. Any Spell greater than Force 2 will make it impossible for a bullet to hit you.

cya
Tycho

Guess you'll find out when Jack O'Neill throws the combat knife into the magician's hand.

Sooo... In order to play with the latest editions and revisions of a game owned by an american company I must learn German?!?!
I'm all for learning other languages and cultures, but this is ludicrous.

I said it once, I'll say it again: "Why are the Germans getting the best stuff?"

If I knew how to give you Karma, I would.

I said it once and i will say it again: "why are the americans getting everything earlier, even when it is developed in germany?"

please tell me that was a joke about the book being changed in germany with no announcment for the english speakers?

Id rather that comment be trolling to wind me up then fact as it shows a very poor sense of fair play if its true

Because CGL's current crew does not release errata. EVER. Even if it's handed to them on a silver plate.

You know, back during this whole clusterfuck AH once remarked that we would probably never see errata with Jason at the helm. At that time I believed it to be another parthian shot, but guess what - he was right. I have no idea why, but they just don't do it. Not just in print, were changing stuff without messing up paragraphs is a slow and tedious process, but they won't even confirm stuff reported in their very own errata forum.

So yeah, Fronteinsatz replaced Slow with a mass levitation spell...at least as far as I've been told

Nope, the German Translation of War! (Fronteinsatz) was corrected in agreement with Jason and the slow spell was cut.


There are some other changes, like you can launch a cruise missile from an airplane (take 2 reinforces external mounts to mount a cruise missile)

Recharge only works on handheld devices.

The Ballast Tanks was removed from most of the ships so that they cannot dive anymore and kill the whole crew in the process.

...

FYI there are several changes in the German Augmentation, too. Like that you can combine Rigger Nannites and Simsinbooster or that a Nanno Biomonitor improves all medical Nannite-System by 1.

Just remember, that all those changes were approved by the CGL Line Developer and so are official errata, they just never were released by CGL.

cya
Tycho

The fact is many things have found there way into the German version of the game that have never shown up in the English. The fact that errata has been done for the German version and not for the English is just another step in a long line. I have often thought about buying the German versions and getting togather with someone who reads German and doing a side by side comparison. Then posting what both versions are missing from each other.

well Im still shocked

Well, I guess it might be worth an inoffizial errata.

Yeah, would it possible for one of the German members to post a copy of these errata? Even in German, we could use Google translate or something to get a rough English translation and work from there. Or just post a link to where we could download them. Assuming this is allowed of course.

Why? This is simply par for course as predicted by AH and many others.

It's because of this sort of bullshit that I have REFUSED TO BUY any further CGL products. As long as CGL has the license to SR & BT, I will NOT support them in any way. I stated this back when the last brouhaha occurred. I even go one step further and let people know (if they weren't already aware) what sort of mischief CGL was reported as being up to.

I would love to hear from the horse's mouth (that would be Jason Hardy) as to why it's perfectly fine to sell an incomplete / inaccurate product to one set of customers but you sell the same product with all the corrections to another set and leave your first set of customers high and dry. The old saw about errata is hard doesn't work either as apparently it made it into an updated product that got published for another set of your customers.

Don't expect me to hold my breath though. It saddens and infuriates me that such a lackadaisical attitude exists around the Shadowrun line from the publisher.

Problem with this is, that, as far as i know, there is no actual errata released . . Our first printings in german simply got the errata worked into the books.
So we got changed books with more, new and different stuff and not books and then a change doc but only one book which has been changed . .
So technically, yes, one would have to read american and german version side by side to see the differences . .

Slow was errataed into mass levitate, charge was made for only hand held devices, killing auschwitz ghosts to get mighty necromantic nazi scalpells of bureaucrats has been cut, jobs for poisoning wells and killing roma and sinti have been cut too i think . .

Is it errata or "authorized market changes"? If it's the latter, I can see why CGL wouldn't want to release it to the US market. They're basically saying, "this version is ok, and that version is ok. We're supporting this version."

If its errata, that sucks.

"It was dumb, it was wrong, it was missing stuff, we changed it." < = sounds like errata to me.

No, the German Line Developer said multiple times, that they don't want to do a German Shadowrun Ruleset. All changes that were made are approved as errata for the US rules, which were translated to German.

cya
Tycho

So . . wait a minute . . These changes were cooked up by CGL?
Then translated to german and released with the german version of the books?
But not as errata in america?
I call shenanigans or somebody was eating paste and sniffing glue at the same time . .

For the Augmentation this is true.

For War! the German Developers suggested a couple of changes for things that seemed wrong, translated them to English, sent them to CGL, they were approved (in part) and than put in the German book.

So Jason should have a English Doc with all the changes, he only needs to release it...

cya
Tycho

So Mr.Bob was right . .

I can't think of another game company that takes this attitude. I mean White Wolf makes corrections to their stuff all the time by errata and in some cases change later printings of the books to enclude the errata.

This would not be much of a problem. But there are also different german versions out there.
So you might go through all the work and find in the end, that you used outdated books to construct your errata.


Thats happening to the german books of Shadowrun too, as far as I know.
There is a german version of Streetmagic with aspected mana static and a newer version without it.

So I guess if you want do make an errate for war! it would be good to wait a month or so to get maybe a new version.

The extra gear from Arsenal 2070 (i.e. German Arsenal) can be found in DK's chargen...maybe we really should do a list, the question comes up quite often.

The SM Version with AMS was the Fasa?WizKids? Version.

Deutsch shenanigans or brazilian shenanigans?

I have the german "fronteinsatz" and will look up all Questions you guys have.

Do they say what skill is used for battle rifles?

It does.

They Named them "Sturmgewehr" and "schweres Sturmgewehr"

In English it should be "Assault Rifle" and "heavy Assault Rifle"

AMS?

Aspected Mana Static. It's a spell. Or something. I've never actually seen it but infer it's meaning from the other posts.

Yep... Aspected Mana Static is indeed a Spell... And yes, it is in the Original Street Magic by FASA/Wizkids.
It is not as powerful as some seem to think it is. It is great to have at your hideout, or where you keep your lifestyle, or Lodge. But, Your Mileage May Vary.

Do:
Get lodge at maximum possible rating.
Use the Aspected Background fromt hat one to safely overcast Aspected Mana-Static to absurd levels.
Add to the already there background count.
Summon something that's not only bigger than YOUR head but also bigger than GHOSTWALKERS head.
PROFIT!
Hmm, can the mana-static spells be made permanent? O.o
Magical Terrorism. Create a Chaos Zone somewhere that has to be dispelled and then geomancied away . .

Irrelevant...
What is absurd?
Background Counts are not additive, the Highest takes precedence.
Good Luck on that one...
Not Likely...
Since it is a Permanent Spell to start, and only lasts a very short time, No...
Does not work that way...

It is not as broken as you are making it out to be...

*shrugs*
i forgot about BG's not stacking.
else, i have the excuse that i really do not do much with magic in any kind or way . .
95% of my characters are done with cyber/bio in 3rd edition.

At least you showed the right spirit and thought like a real powergamer. I am so proud of you.^^ I think overcasting this (no more existing) spell would be absolutely sufficient. We don´t want to wake up the sleeping GM of hell.^^

Heh... I am just happy to get a point or two out of it, in the end. Sometimes, that extra one or two dice in your favor, and the minuses to your opponent's (dp's and Drain Penalties), makes all the difference.

AMS is just about the most powerful spell on the planet, and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to reread the magic rules. One spell can be cast after the next with progressively higher effective magic ratings to exponentially increase the effective magic rating of the caster and the area of the back ground count. In a game where a simple BG of 6 can have a severe negative impact on the viability of a mage, the prospect of an area that boosts friendly mages quickly and easily to no maximum level while limiting other mages by a like amount with no draw back save the expenditure of the time required to cast...

I mean fuck. Do you need a better reason why it's not in current printings?

AMS is a good example of a reasonable seeming change that makes it though playtesting, gets out of hand and then needs to be errataed later. It's sad that CGL under it's current leadership is unable to hold themselves to a standard of quality that supports their own products.

It does not increase your Magic Rating, you really should read the rules.... An Aspected Background Count only adds additional Dice equal to the rating of the resultant Background Count, that is all, and you can only potentially add twice your Magic Rating in Dice (Spell Force equal to 2x Magic Attribute).... BIG DIFFERENCE... It is not all that powerful, in the end. After all, if you are capping out your Spells at Force Successes (a Force 8 Spell for example), an additional 12 Dice is not really going to do anything except insure you hit your cap... Big Deal. Most mages I have seen tend to hit their cap, or come extrememly close anyways.

Come on, Otakusensei, Where are you getting all of this erroneous information from?

Under SR3, background count directly added to magic attribute.
Same with Power-Focus.

Do we discuss SR3 rules here?

Yes, I know, but Not in 4th Edition. Which is why I do not understand why everyone is complaining about the spell; it is really not all that powerful. Can it turn that tide of a Battle? Maybe, but so can a Manaball, and more reliably, in my opinion.

Right. An overcast Force 12 Manabolt means instant death = Minus (all) dices. Who cares about +4 dices for an enemy mage or -4 magic for yourself if you are so stupid to step into it?

Pretty Much, since the Area of the Spell is pretty small; and there are better things than Magic to use against such a Mage anyways.