Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Finding an RFID Tag.
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Bushw4cker
What is the best way a team can go about trying to find a Security RFID Tag? The Radio Signal Scanner seems to be the best bet, but how does a team approach it? Drive around Rolling Electronic Warfare + Radio Signal Scanner Rating? Hack Public/Private nodes to find if the RFID tag was logged in their system? (Would it be unrealistic for say a shop, to keep track of all RFID tags that passed though their business?) Any ideas, comments or suggestions are appreciated.

Example: Finding a Paracritter with a Security RFID Tag Implant


This is what the book says about Radio Signal Scanner and Detecting Wireless traffic.


Radio Signal Scanner: The radio signal scanner locates and locks
in on radio traffic from RFID tags, wireless networks, and other transmitters,
and is especially useful at capturing signals originating from
nearby. The scanner can also measure a signal’s strength and pinpoint
its location. Treat the scanner as if it were a Sniffer program (p. 234)
equal to its rating; see p. 229 for rules on detecting and intercepting
wireless signals.

Sniffer (Electronic Warfare/Hacking)
Sniffer programs gather data traffic and wireless signals and capture the
information. Sniffer programs are the ultimate Matrix spying utility,
used for the Intercept Traffic (p. 230) and Intercept Wireless Signals
(p. 229) actions.

Capture Wireless Signal (Sniffer)
You eavesdrop on wireless traffic going to and from a device. You must
be within the device’s Signal range to capture the traffic. You must succeed
in an Electronic Warfare + Sniffer (3) test to start the capture,
and then you may copy, record, or forward the traffic without another
test as long as you remain within the target device’s Signal range and
keep the Sniffer program running.
There is no way for other parties to detect your capture (without
access to your commlink, of course). If the traffic is encrypted, you
must break the encryption before it can be captured.
Yerameyahu
First off, yep, the RSS crunch/fluff doesn't match or make sense. Ugh.

The easiest way to 'find' tags is to just destroy them. Assume they're everywhere and zap it all. frown.gif

I'm honestly not sure what the intended method is. Hmm.
Draco18s
Crucial piece of information:

QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ Jun 21 2011, 03:46 PM) *
You must be within the device’s Signal range to capture the traffic.


An RFID tag has signal 0 and therefor you'd have to be within 3 feet (1 meter) of it in order to pick it up.
KCKitsune
You can always use a commlink with a high signal rating and an Agent with a sniffer program in its payload.

Have the Agent continuously active and looking for the RFID. If it finds the RFID, then it alerts you to the status of the RFID.
Headshot_Joe
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jun 21 2011, 12:54 PM) *
An RFID tag has signal 0 and therefor you'd have to be within 3 feet (1 meter) of it in order to pick it up.

Meaning anybody would have to be within 3 feet. So, just keep the goods more than three feet away from everything, and it can't be tracked by RFID. It's a safe bet that once it's in your van, it's more than three feet from any scanner at all times (assuming the tag is in the center of the van, and the van is more than six feet wide, more than six feet tall, and more than six feet long) and you can proceed to drive about with no fear of that pesky RFID tag causing you trouble. Might help to have a jammer in your van as well. Or a HERF gun.
Draco18s
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jun 21 2011, 04:01 PM) *
You can always use a commlink with a high signal rating


Ahem. It's mutual signal range. It always is.
Bigity
Yup they are only good for chokepoint types of situations really, or a building where you can put scanners in all over the place.

Which is silly because RFID tags today easily go over 20 feet. Oh well, it keeps things nice and simple which is the point of Signal ratings smile.gif
Bushw4cker
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jun 21 2011, 08:54 PM) *
Crucial piece of information:



An RFID tag has signal 0 and therefor you'd have to be within 3 feet (1 meter) of it in order to pick it up.


They have a signal rating of 1 (40m)
1 40m RFID tags, handheld electronics (pg 222 SR4A)
Bigity
That makes alot more sense smile.gif
Bushw4cker
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jun 21 2011, 09:06 PM) *
Ahem. It's mutual signal range. It always is.


I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to detect a RFID tag with a high signal, for 2 way communication (That RFID tag being able to send you any information) you would need to be in mutual signal range.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ Jun 21 2011, 04:22 PM) *
I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to detect a RFID tag with a high signal, for 2 way communication (That RFID tag being able to send you any information) you would need to be in mutual signal range.


Ah ha. But you're looking to RECEIVE info from the RFID, not SEND data to it, therefore the important signal number is the RFID tag's signal rating.1 So having a high signal comlink doesn't help at all.

1Which is 1 (I stand corrected, I thought they were 0s).
Headshot_Joe
QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ Jun 21 2011, 01:09 PM) *
They have a signal rating of 1 (40m)
1 40m RFID tags, handheld electronics (pg 222 SR4A)

My argument still stands with the adjustment that the van must now be 40 meters long, wide, and tall.
suoq
QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ Jun 21 2011, 03:09 PM) *
They have a signal rating of 1 (40m)
1 40m RFID tags, handheld electronics (pg 222 SR4A)

Minor correction from the same page. They actually have a signal rating of 1 (40m), 2 (100m), or 3(300 m).
QUOTE
A device’s hardware ratings may only be upgraded by +2 with regards to their original ratings
Pumping a single RFID tage to signal 3 is only 150 nuyen.gif , not worth doing in bulk but for a special use RFID, more than worth it.

Edit: If you want to drive a 600m diameter blimp as your getaway vehicle with the tag secured in the very center, go for it.
A Telematics Infrastructure is NOT your friend in this case.
Christian Lafay
Which brings us back to the dead-zone cargo van.
Bushw4cker
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jun 21 2011, 08:27 PM) *
Ah ha. But you're looking to RECEIVE info from the RFID, not SEND data to it, therefore the important signal number is the RFID tag's signal rating.1 So having a high signal comlink doesn't help at all.

1Which is 1 (I stand corrected, I thought they were 0s).


I'm assuming routing goes on for RFID tags

Never saw this before. Security, Sensor, and Stealth Tags have Device Rating of 3, so Signal 3 (400m)
sabs
hackers doing jam on the fly are much better at jamming than your average jammer.

EW Skill + Commlink Signal vs ew*+signal + eccm


* EW skill of a RFID = 0 smile.gif


HunterHerne
Don`t forget that the 2070`s matrix is built so each commlink acts like a retrans unit. Unless you are sniffing, which explicitly requires you to be able to pick up the device's direct activities in and out, almost everyone should be able to at least notice the RFID's. Even if they can't tell the exact location.
Bushw4cker
back to my original question.....

What is the best way a team can go about trying to find a Security RFID Tag? The Radio Signal Scanner seems to be the best bet, but how does a team approach it? Drive around Rolling Electronic Warfare + Radio Signal Scanner Rating? Hack Public/Private nodes to find if the RFID tag was logged in their system? (Would it be unrealistic for say a shop, to keep track of all RFID tags that passed though their business?) Any ideas, comments or suggestions are appreciated.

Example: Trying to track a Paracritter with a Security RFID tag implant.
sabs
Security RFID tags are encrypted. You have to find the signal, decrypt it, then hack it.

The best bet would be to have the AccessID of a machine that's supposed to be able to track said RFID in the first place. Then the RFID tag will contact YOU, and tell you where it is.
HunterHerne
Use the RSS. It is likely the cheapest way to be able to find them.
Yerameyahu
The Device Rating shorthand rules are not a stupidity pact, though. If it doesn't make sense for a tag to have Signal 3, it doesn't. Unwired lists 'RFID tag' as having straight 1's. While I can see the utility of certain tags having more range, it also doesn't make sense if they're very small—these are microscopic. Sensor tags, etc. could well be much bigger.
Bushw4cker
QUOTE (sabs @ Jun 21 2011, 08:58 PM) *
Security RFID tags are encrypted. You have to find the signal, decrypt it, then hack it.

The best bet would be to have the AccessID of a machine that's supposed to be able to track said RFID in the first place. Then the RFID tag will contact YOU, and tell you where it is.


Your thinking Stealth Tags
Christian Lafay
QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ Jun 21 2011, 08:56 PM) *
back to my original question.....

What is the best way a team can go about trying to find a Security RFID Tag? The Radio Signal Scanner seems to be the best bet, but how does a team approach it? Drive around Rolling Electronic Warfare + Radio Signal Scanner Rating? Hack Public/Private nodes to find if the RFID tag was logged in their system? (Would it be unrealistic for say a shop, to keep track of all RFID tags that passed though their business?) Any ideas, comments or suggestions are appreciated.

Example: Trying to track a Paracritter with a Security RFID tag implant.

Tons, and I mean TONS, of small cheap agent coms sleeping around the city. Our hacker calls it Total Enveloping Detection. "Haaaave ya' met TED? Alright minions, wake up. Look for this freak. Found it? No? Alright, go back to sleep. He ain't in Seattle anymore."
Bushw4cker
QUOTE (Christian Lafay @ Jun 21 2011, 10:04 PM) *
Tons, and I mean TONS, of small cheap agent coms sleeping around the city. Our hacker calls it Total Enveloping Detection. "Haaaave ya' met TED? Alright minions, wake up. Look for this freak. Found it? No? Alright, go back to sleep. He ain't in Seattle anymore."


Agent Coms?
Christian Lafay
QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ Jun 21 2011, 09:09 PM) *
Agent Coms?

Commlinks with agent programs on them. It's not cheap and it took a long time to set up.
suoq
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jun 21 2011, 03:01 PM) *
it also doesn't make sense if they're very small—these are microscopic.

The really good RFID tags don't use wireless at all. They're enchanted foci and can be seen astrally. They may be microscopic, but they're brimming with power...

Wow. I love the device rating 3 RFID tags on page 328. Potential Response 5, Signal 5 RFID tags. A hacker using those as routers.... wow. Stuff that like could make a hacker network's reputation.

suoq
QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ Jun 21 2011, 03:56 PM) *
Example: Trying to track a Paracritter with a Security RFID tag implant.

Honestly, if I'm trying to track a security RFID tag, I'd be more tempted to go for the computer it reports to than for the tag.
1) I'm assuming you're going AGAINST the people that implanted the tag. If you were working with them, they'd just use the computer in the first place to tell them where it is.
2) I'm assuming you really don't want to attempt surgery on a live paracritter and either killing the critter, moving the critter, or deactivating the tag would pop up a red flag on the computer it reports to.
3) But if you own the computer it reports to, it can tell you where the critter is AND you can keep any flags from popping up. Heck, you can make it do whatever you want.

If you can't get that level of access, I'd be really tempted to try spoofing as the RFID tag. Make them think the RFID tag is broken, flaky, whatever. Send them out to fix the tag, follow them to the target, wait for them to leave and then do the job.
Yerameyahu
I'm not convinced you can upgrade a tag's Matrix stats at all, but it'd definitely be Peripheral. So you'd have to cluster them.
suoq
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jun 21 2011, 05:57 PM) *
I'm not convinced you can upgrade a tag's Matrix stats at all, but it'd definitely be Peripheral.
By house rule or is there some RAW I'm missing. (I don't object to the house rule, but I sometimes like to know what the RAW is so I can ignore it.)
Yerameyahu
The upgradeable part, yes; AFAIK, there are no rules about that stuff besides 'literally everything is an electronic device'. For Peripheral, that's RAW. Tags are basically the definition of Peripheral nodes: something with Matrix connectivity, but no need to run programs/be a general purpose computer.
Bushw4cker
QUOTE (suoq @ Jun 21 2011, 10:49 PM) *
Honestly, if I'm trying to track a security RFID tag, I'd be more tempted to go for the computer it reports to than for the tag.
1) I'm assuming you're going AGAINST the people that implanted the tag. If you were working with them, they'd just use the computer in the first place to tell them where it is.
2) I'm assuming you really don't want to attempt surgery on a live paracritter and either killing the critter, moving the critter, or deactivating the tag would pop up a red flag on the computer it reports to.
3) But if you own the computer it reports to, it can tell you where the critter is AND you can keep any flags from popping up. Heck, you can make it do whatever you want.

If you can't get that level of access, I'd be really tempted to try spoofing as the RFID tag. Make them think the RFID tag is broken, flaky, whatever. Send them out to fix the tag, follow them to the target, wait for them to leave and then do the job.


What I meant was..Say a Johnson needs to track a Paracritter that escaped, and the critter is tagged with a security RFID tag. The runners know that the critter probably hasn't gotten out of the city, what would be the best way to track that RFID tag? sorry if I didn't explain example better.
HunterHerne
Still getting the computer it's linked to/ spoofing the ID code. It'll send a specific message at regular intervals to that commcode.
Christian Lafay
QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ Jun 21 2011, 11:26 PM) *
What I meant was..Say a Johnson needs to track a Paracritter that escaped, and the critter is tagged with a security RFID tag. The runners know that the critter probably hasn't gotten out of the city, what would be the best way to track that RFID tag? sorry if I didn't explain example better.

Shit, then you should have the hard part done. The Johnson should have been able to give you the specifics of the RFID. After that your Hacker needs to get really creative with looking for it. But before that I would suggest using some logic, lowercase "l". Depending on the creature see if it has been bagged and hit the market recently. Put a call out to your fixer(s) saying you are in the market for an exotic animal. Just got a big score and always wondered what BLAH tasted like, or some other lie. Then, again with logic, try to find out where in the city that type of critter would go to. Would people scream out loud if they saw it? Does it like dark damp places? That kinda of stuff. Will narrow the hunting grounds for your hacker. IMHO.
Bushw4cker
QUOTE (Christian Lafay @ Jun 22 2011, 12:32 AM) *
Shit, then you should have the hard part done. The Johnson should have been able to give you the specifics of the RFID. After that your Hacker needs to get really creative with looking for it. But before that I would suggest using some logic, lowercase "l". Depending on the creature see if it has been bagged and hit the market recently. Put a call out to your fixer(s) saying you are in the market for an exotic animal. Just got a big score and always wondered what BLAH tasted like, or some other lie. Then, again with logic, try to find out where in the city that type of critter would go to. Would people scream out loud if they saw it? Does it like dark damp places? That kinda of stuff. Will narrow the hunting grounds for your hacker. IMHO.


Lets say it's a Hell Hound, they are pretty sneaky (Infiltration 4) so if one wanted to evade detection it probably could. So whats the best strategy for a Hacker to find the Critter. I think trying to ask most contacts would be pretty useless. Maybe intercept Lone Star traffic to find out if anyone has spotted a Hell Hound? Trying to hack public/private nodes to see if RFID tag has been logged (Is that realistic, to think that RFID tag Traffic is logged in larger nodes? like Shopping Malls. Traffic Sensors.) Then using a Radio Signal Scanner to track the Critter once the general RFID tag location has been found. What would be best approach if all the above fail?
Bushw4cker
Couldn't a commlink duplicate a Radio Signal Scanner's functions?
Christian Lafay
QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ Jun 22 2011, 12:03 AM) *
Lets say it's a Hell Hound, they are pretty sneaky (Infiltration 4) so if one wanted to evade detection it probably could. So whats the best strategy for a Hacker to find the Critter. I think trying to ask most contacts would be pretty useless. Maybe intercept Lone Star traffic to find out if anyone has spotted a Hell Hound? Trying to hack public/private nodes to see if RFID tag has been logged (Is that realistic, to think that RFID tag Traffic is logged in larger nodes? like Shopping Malls. Traffic Sensors.) Then using a Radio Signal Scanner to track the Critter once the general RFID tag location has been found. What would be best approach if all the above fail?

Well with a security tag I doubt that it would register with just local nodes. Otherwise it would be easier for other companies to acquire new property. But your hacker could rig them to start looking and report back to him, focus on the areas that might be best. If the critter escaped recently start a spiral pattern out from the site, if you know it. Also the LS info is a pretty good idea. But it's always good to listen to their chatter anyway. To bad there is no fur or such for a magician to track down, though being dual natured might help track it down. Could attempt to summon a lot of weak spirits and send them out to search an area for a Hell Hound. Carpet bomb surveillance. But that is just a quick thought.
HunterHerne
QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ Jun 21 2011, 08:07 PM) *
Couldn't a commlink duplicate a Radio Signal Scanner's functions?


Yes. With the sniffer program. But, a radio signal scanner is 25 nuyen per rating, with maximum 6. A sniffer program, which is a hacking program, costs 500 nuyen per rating, up to 3, or 1000 nuyen per rating if you want higher. And is capped by your commlink's system/response.
Bushw4cker
QUOTE (HunterHerne @ Jun 22 2011, 12:22 AM) *
Yes. With the sniffer program. But, a radio signal scanner is 25 nuyen per rating, with maximum 6. A sniffer program, which is a hacking program, costs 500 nuyen per rating, up to 3, or 1000 nuyen per rating if you want higher. And is capped by your commlink's system/response.


It seems Scan would make more sense then Sniffer for finding an RFID tag
suoq
QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ Jun 21 2011, 05:26 PM) *
What I meant was..Say a Johnson needs to track a Paracritter that escaped, and the critter is tagged with a security RFID tag. The runners know that the critter probably hasn't gotten out of the city, what would be the best way to track that RFID tag? sorry if I didn't explain example better.

It's a Security RFID tag (pg 329 SR4A). If it's in the city it should be within 400 meters of an access point since it's signal is as good as a standard commlink. Since it provides a mean of tracking the critter (SR4A 329), it's reporting back to home through the matrix (unless you can think of a better way to perform that function). If it's escaped, then no one should have disabled or removed the RFID tag. If, through some stretch of the imagination, the paracritter is not within range of a matrix access point, the computer it reports to should know when and where it was last time it reported in. Simply drive to that point and convert a commlink to an access point (there's got to be rules for that somewhere), map out nearby dead zones, and drive around until you can bridge the gap between the critter and an access point. If it got on a blimp or airplane, find out what might have left at that time and pray.

Note that if the tag is encrypted, unless your GM sells Radio Signal Scanners WITH decryption, running around with Radio Signal Scanners is not going to be fun since you'll have to physically verify all the encrypted tags. Personally, even if the tag wasn't encrypted, running around with scanners hoping to get lucky does not sound like fun.

Edit: Given that it's a paracritter, if you are going to drive around, get someone to astrally look for the darn thing. There's got to be less paracritters in the astral than there are RFID tags in the physical. I know that's not what you're asking, but I'm not good at staying on the rails or in the box.
HunterHerne
QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ Jun 21 2011, 08:35 PM) *
It seems Scan would make more sense then Sniffer for finding an RFID tag


You're right. Sorry, I just used Sniffer because that is what the RSS says to treat it as. Scan still costs 50 nuyen per rating, or 100 per rating if you want it above rating 3. Nothing back breaking, but still double or 4 times the cost for the program alone, and limited by your commlink's ratings.
Yerameyahu
Yeah, that's an error in the RSS rules.
Christian Lafay
QUOTE (suoq @ Jun 22 2011, 12:37 AM) *
Simply drive to that point and convert a commlink to an access point (there's got to be rules for that somewhere), map out nearby dead zones, and drive around until you can bridge the gap between the critter and an access point.

Satellite link.
Sir_Psycho
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jun 21 2011, 05:57 PM) *
I'm not convinced you can upgrade a tag's Matrix stats at all, but it'd definitely be Peripheral. So you'd have to cluster them.

Let me show you my tiny bag of tricks.
Chance359
Based on what the OP has said so far, I'd suggest building (unwired p.88) or renting (Unwired p.93) a botnet with scan loaded.
Bushw4cker
When I think of Security RFID tags, I think about the movie Idiocracy. (I tried to find the clip...) Where Joe has a bar code tattoo, and he goes past the scanner that alerts the police to his location.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012