I'm currently toying around with seeing how many die pools I can stretch to 20 (Using the opttional SR4A rules for die caps) in a single starting character (400 BP). Below is a sample I'm toying with and I want to see if any of you have any insight on how to tweak him, and catch my math being wonky...

Meet Spider Pete - Urban Intrusion Freak

Pete was a big man but he had the skeletal, wiry build of a climber, bare dark arms and shins and big sticky-toed jumping shoes. He had a sleeveless leather bodysuit full of clips and snaps, and he carried a big fabric shoulderbag. There were six vivid tattoos on the dark skin of his left cheek, under the black stubble.

Bicycle Repairman is where a young Spider Pete is introduced as a supporting character.

Taklamakan has SP gone 'pro' working as a spook for the man. Farout bioware and much bad karma had.

400 BP

ELF [30bp]

Attributes [200 BP]
Body 5 [40 bp]
Agility 8 ( 10 ) [50 bp]
Reaction 3 [20bp]
Strength 3 [20bp]
Charisma 3
Intuition 3 [ 10 bp]
Logic 3 [20 bp]
Willpower 3 [20 bp]
Edge 1
Essence .2

Initiative 6
Initiative Passes 1 (3)

Positive Qualities [?bp]
Metagenetic Improvement (Agility) [20bp]
Exceptional Attribute (Agility) [20bp]

Negative Qualities [?bp]
Thrillseeker

Skills (?BP)
Pistols: 5 (Spec. Semi-Auto) 7 [22bp]
Stealth Group: 4 [40bp]
Climbing: 4 (Spec. Assisted) 6 [18bp]
Parachuting: 4 (6) (Spec. BASE Jumping) [18bp] - I'm been playing Just Cause 2 way too much ...
Hardware: 4 (6) (Spec. Mag Locks) [18bp]
Locksmith: AGI
Demonlitions: LOG
Dodge:
Perception:
Etiquette:

Knowledge Skills (?)

Language Skills
English N
Japanese 3
German 2

Cyberware:[/b] - 4 Total
Cybereyes Basic System R3 (.4)
- Flare Comp
- Low-Light
- Smartlink
- Thermographic
- Vision Enhancment R3 (+3 Perception)
- Vision Magnification
Cyberear R2 (.3)
- Balance Augmenter
- Damper
- Audio Enhancement R3
Magnetic Systems 4 Limbs + 4 (1)
Grip Feet (.3) +2
Balance Tail (.5) - +2 Climb
Retractable Climbing Claws x2 (.4) (+4 Climb)
Attention Co-proccessor R3 (.3) (+3 Peception)
Wired Reflexes 2 (3)
Ultrasound Sensor (.3)

[b]Bioware[/b] - 1.4 Total
Enhanced Articulation (.3)
Muscle Toner 2 (.4)
Reflex Recorder - Pistols (.1)
Synthacardium 3 (.4)
Cerebral Booster (2) (.2)
Gecko Hands (.1) +2

Gear:
Chameleon Suit (-4 Dice to Perecption Tests)
Keycard Copier Rating 6
Autopicker R6
Grapple Gun
Stealth Rope & Catalyst Stick
Microwire
Cutting Torch
Sequencer R2
Wire Clippers
Thermal Grenade / Smoke (Ultrasound I can see and you can't... )

[b]Dice Pools:[/b]

[b]Pistols Pew Pew
Pistols 5 (7) + Smartlink 2 + 10 Agility + Reflex Recorder + 1 = 20 Dice

Climbing Like a Spider Monkey ! Always considered to be assisted
Climbing 4 (6) + Strength 3 + Synthacardium 3 + Grip Feet 2 + Geck Hands 2 + Balance Augmentor 1 + Enhanced Articulation 1 + Retractable Climbing Claws 2 = 20 Dice

Stealth Group Sneaky Sneeeaaaky
Stealth 4 + Agility 10 + Enhanced Articulation 1 = 15 Dice

Hardware - Break open Maglocks
Hardware 4 (6) + Logic 3 + Cerebral Booster (2) 2 = 11

Perception
3 Intuition + 3 Attention Co-Proc + 3 Vision Ench = 9 Dice

Where's the ultimate mundane climber/Spider Troll with the 46 dice in climbing?

Your character is very squishy for a Street Sam, and enhanced articulation does not apply on combat skills.

Cap it at 20 dice =) (pg. 61 SR4A)

Ah, my mind was thinking SR3. Curses.

How much Body is standard for a Street Samurai ? To get the unsquish factor off.

4 is minimum, 5 or more is better, but only applicable to Orks and Trolls. Some degree of protective ware is also advisable, e.g. Bone Density Augmentation.

Basically, you'd want a soak pool of ~15-20 in street gear.

You have Essence 6, but you've got implants?

Also, Skill Groups are limited to 4 at CharGen (Stealth).

Here is the link to the ultimate mundane climber
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...&hl=climber

Added some edits.

Anyway to boost stealth other than turning into an Adept ?

I only have two @ 20. Anyone see a way to get more skills a rolling that high ?

Love the Bruce Sterling reference. I was thinking, "Wouldn't Pete have a way higher edge than 1?" And then I remembered that in Taklamakan, pretty much everything that could go wrong did go wrong.

You have too many points in Positive Qualities. Max is 35 and you have 40. If you don't want to loose that max agility then there is a Genetech Ware in Augmentation that will to the same thing.

Your perception is awfully low. Get a couple of points in it. As it stands, you've got 8 dice for visual, and 5 for everything else.

Is your goal to have a playable char? I hope not.

You want an extremely high attribute with many linked skills. Elf, Exceptional Attribute Agility , Restricted Gear (Muscle Toner 4, Suprathyroid gland), Agility 7(12). Smartlink + Specialisation + Skill 4 is 20 for firearms, Gymnastics 5 works with Synthacardium 3. Your secondary attributes and skill pools will suffer.

Genetic Heritage: Genetic Optimization: Agility is actually a better deal than Exceptional Attribute. Its only 1 bp point more, and doesn't take up any of your cash limit to do so. Surged Agility is an even better deal, because it saves you 10 points by raising your minimum by 1.

All of these methods stack, by the way, if you want to spike your agility as high as possible.


Another similar way to do this is with a Mind over Matter adept(1.5PP adept power in war), Analytical Mind(only applies some of the time), and cranking your Logic as high as it can go. The basic idea is you swap Logic for Agility, and don't need to bother wasting a ton of resources and essence with agility boosting ware when all you need is a Cerebral Booster.

Found a problem, you misspelled "Spyder".

The deadly Aracnicus Deathicus

Spiking Agility is very interesting. Elven Agility Max 7 + SURGE I for Exceptional Attribute + Genetic Heritage can end up at AGI 8(13).

For the sake of this experiment alone, simply paying for Genetic Optimisation permits you to have Restricted Gear*1 (Muscle Toner IV) plus SURGE II for Metagenetic Improvement plus Exceptional Attribute on top. Elven AGI limit 10(15), we can obtain 10(14). Then any AGI-linked skill 4 with an affordable +2 modifier (IE smartlink) is at DP 20.

Huh?
How do you arrive at 8(13)?
Isn't augmented maximum natural maximum x1.5?
So 8(12) maximum?

My mistake. 7+1+1= 9, derived augmented max 9+4=13

Shame that they changed it from natural x 1,5 round up to natural x 1,5 round down eh?

For the sake of this argument, a shame, yes. We could have arrived at AGI 14 cheaper.

It's Really Hard to have a playable character with ridiculous dice pools at character creation. You end up neglecting everything else. I would recommend trying to build you character with potential in mind. I disagree with post that says your character needs to have high soak pool, Body is good, but Reaction is better for survivability. In just about every Shadowrun Campaign, it's easier to earn Nuyen, then karma, so I recommend getting skills and attributes over ware. But if you need to have a godlike character with ridiculous starting dice pools, then Restricted Gear (15) is the way to go Muscle Augmentation-4, Muscle Toner-4, Move-by-Wire System-2.

Getting multiple dice pools of 20 is like focusing excessively on any aspect of a character - you pay disproportionately for the last few dice, and it costs in other areas. You are better off settling for one or two dice pools of 20, with other primary skills in the low to mid teens. You will be able to concentrate more on other areas (such as more initiative passes, contacts, etc.), and your character will feel more organic, and less gimmicky.

That said, here is one dice pool exercise, in a covert ops specialist vein:

Wow, Glyph... Not Bad. Not something that I would build, but not bad at all...

Wow Glyth. I was having trouble getting two skills that high.

Much food for thought.

What is a more organic Covert Ops Spook build look like ? I've heard horrible things about the Sample Builds in the SR4A book.

Hardware for breaking into Maglocks seems like something to take ? Or is it Electronics ?

Anyway to get that higher other than Logic out the roof ?

I think Electronics is used to by-pass Maglocks, but you need Hardware to be able to crack the case open to actually get to the electronics inside...

Hardware is the only skill you need to get by MagLocks, since you use that skill for all of the possible tests involved - removing the casing, bypassing the anti-tamper circuits, and rewiring the internal electronics.

The gear-related means of bypassing MagLocks (fake keycards, MagLock passkeys, and sequencers) all use their own rating instead of the user's skill, unlike an autopicker, which gives a dice pool bonus. So the only way to boost your hardware skill is by boosting Logic or Logic-linked skills. A cerebral booster: 2 and PuSHeD would give you 3 more dice (an encephalon: 1 would give you 1 more die, as well, but is a bit pricey).


The covert ops specialist in the book is poorly put together (note: I have SR4. SR4A may have fixed a few things). A lot of points are wasted on the close combat skill group at 3, for a character with a Body and Strength of 2 with only one initiative pass. The stealth group should have been taken - 36 points are spent on the individual skills, just 4 points away from being able to have the entire skill group at 4 (rather than one at 4, one at 3, one at 2, and palming completely missing). The electronics skill group, I can see (except that I don't really see a covert ops specialist using the software skill a lot). But the main skill a covert ops specialist needs is hardware, preferably with a specialization in MagLocks. Overall, this is an archetype rolling 5-9 dice for athletic, stealth, and hardware related skills. And she won't "talk or fight her way out of most situations" if those abilities fail her, either, unless she is up against fairly unchallenging opponents. The aforementioned low Body (decent Reaction, though), dice pools below 10, armor that encumbers her, and weapons that include an Ingram Smartgun X that she isn't even proficient in. She has 5 dice using etiquette to do the "talking her way out" part.

So this build at least resembles its function, but is middling at best at performing said function, and all but useless outside of this area. And a few things bug me about the build, like such low Body and Strength skills for an athletic cat burglar, and the excessive (and mostly wasted) focus on melee combat.


Generally, a covert ops specialist needs the athletics skill group, the stealth skill group, and the hardware skill (although computer specializing in edit is good for programming nanopaste disguises and similar tasks). The influence group is also useful if you want to be the type who can schmooze past security with a glib lie (and a bit of carefully crafted supporting evidence). For combat, I would recommend pistols and either unarmed combat (used with a shock glove) or monofilament whip - you want small and concealable weaponry, but you still want to be able to take out guards fast.

'Ware-wise, I would recommend at least one additional initiative pass, some decent senseware, and assorted dice pool boosters - synthcardium, muscle augmentation and toner, and cerebral boosters are the overall cheapest of these.