I've been thinking a bit. Big D is somewhat responsible for the first Crash with all that Roxborough story. His will, as pointed out in Street Legends, made possible for Villier to crash Fuchi. At the same time he gave Dankwalther money, which contributed to the eventual Novatech IPO and led to second Crash. Also, if I'm not mistaken, Dunkezahn's instructions to Draco Foundation go up till 2064. Is it just a coincidence, or all that was part of the dragons plan? And if yes, why did Dunkelzahn need Matrix 2.0 (obviously it was the main consequence of the Crash)?

We'll find out when we see what in the final instructions he gave The Draco Foundation: "Now open envelope #2, you can find it in my sock drawer at my house in..."

I hope it's not 'write three letters'

I'd say the absence of godmodding AI is the main consequence of Crash 2.0. YMMV though.

Dunkie set up the dominoes and they fell either like he expected, or exactly like he didn't. Might have explained a certain Vice President's disappearance either way.

I believe the whole point of Art Dankwalther is he was an unexpected consequence, barely worthy of mention by Dunkelzahn but having far reaching effects.

The game world would loose a lot of it's fun value if the Dragon's could see the future perfectly.

I'm getting this Foundation vibe here...

Even if we were sure he needed a crash 2.0, we can't be sure of why, because maybe it's for something that will (or won't) happen in a thousand years.

But if you want to keep thinking about it, you might like to take a look at the circumstances of the first crash too...

OR! .... He didn't have fucking clue since he's an old dragon, not a Matrix designer!

I do seem to remember some shadow talk from the big D saying something along the lines of "technology might be something to give humanity the edge this time round against the horrors if they have the time to prepare"

I'm really really putting words in his virtual mouth here but that was the gist I was given,

Given how big D was all about the long game and wanting to spank the horrors when ever he could it does seem to fall into line that he might if he could push the tech side of things further through other people just like he pushed magical side of things himself in small ways.

The thing is that there was no need for the Crash 2.0 to get the Matrix 2.0. Work on a wireless matrix was already in place before and it would have arrived anyway.

But perhaps it would take longer to implement it everywhere. Scale comparisons aside, it is the same thing with changing IPv4 to IPv6. It's been taking years to gradually change it in every computer of the planet and it is just a simple change. IF the internet somehow collapsed and we had to build it from the ground, then IPv6 would already be the default implementation.

Of course, he was no Matrix designer, but he was an avid fan of technology, mass media and stuff. And Celedyr is quite fond of matrix too. And you don't need to be a technical engineer to predict the Crash and see that something new would rise from the ashes.

The idea about Deus is intriguing, haven't thought about that.

Except no one saw the crash coming, otherwise the crash wouldn't have happened. There's just too many moving pieces to the what happened at the crash for anyone to predict it. The other alternative that it's just one more level of Magicrun in the setting is even less palatable.

That's not to say you couldn't predict A crash happening, just to presume the Novatech IPO, the Jorgumand Worm, and all the emp strikes that precipitated the crash would be the cause and the intimate that D set them in motion is falling afoul of Iluminati/Batman hand waving story telling. I think the actual material backs me up that what happened with the crash was damn near unprecedented.

Lowfyr did see it happen - he switched whole S-K off the Matrix. And Horizon was tooquick to seize to moment, which was mentioned in Corporate book.

Lowfyr did have a plan in place for a cascading matrix failure. For all we know that plan might have involved a case of shotguns and the major fiber trunks with a redline to essen, that's not nearly the same thing as him knowing when he woke up that morning that he'd need to shut off the euro grids.

In fact some of the only reason that plan even worked is a few of the egg nests in europe had already been dealt with.

How quick is too quick?

Horizon's servers were conveniently offline for "upgrades" at the time it all happened; after the Crash happened, they were one of the first ones up, which gave them a great competitive advantage.

It *could* be a coincidence of course, but it smells funny.

Consider for a moment that Big D didn't want Matrix 2.0 or even that he really wanted Crash 2.0 but that he wanted sentient AIs, but not ones like Deus or Mirage. That is, little baby AIs and not giant digital gods. As came up in another thread, an AI is largely immune to the primary powers of the horrors.

So the best way to have gone about killing dues but at the same time giving rise to AIs, is to--essentially--cause a network war between the Big Boys (Mirage, Deus, and Megaera) that results in mutually assured destruction (and as a side effect, Crash 2.0) and the scattered remnants of sentience giving rise to smaller, less powerful, more benign AI programs.

(In my own defense, "That's even dumber than the first one!").

Or he remembered reading something about Crash 1.0, and thought, "You know, it might be a good idea to have a plan in case this happens again."Lowfyr probably has more Zombie Plans than the UCAS/CAS Government combined.

In his head.

Before breakfast.

Maybe D didn't want Matrix 2.0 or AIs, but non-fading Technomancers.

Possible. Although I never did understand how otaku + crash 2.0 = technos. Even in a pseudoscience "it's magic!" way. There's no detail, just kinda "it was A, then B happened, now it's C." E.g. no cause and effect relationship, just coincidental timing.

Maybe it was going to some blended technology/magic thingy

I kid, I kid

Technos have to be partly magical, afterall, they can be assensed....

The potato battery that has an AI in it that Kane would love as a pet can be assensed. It just means their aura is all fragged up. Drug addicts show up the same way. PersonaFixed People, same deal.

Well, I have to disagree with that sentiment... Normals can be assensed as well, does not make them Magical in any way, shape OR form.

Not what I meant, plus I was playing the opposite side of the table.

Personally I don't feel that the rules/fluff intend for technos to be magic, despite all appearances to the contrary.

Gotcha...

And I would agree with you. Technomancers are NOT magical in any way, shape, or form.
They use a similar mechanic, because having 57 seperate and distinct sets of sub-rules sucks (I am looking at you SR3).

Why recreate the wheel when you can do something similar yet still have it work completely different, and just explain it away as, "Fragged if we know how this really works. We just do it."

*Shrugs* I mean, hell, how many people who drive even know the basics of an internal combustion engine?

Or all the Skript Kiddie Hackers out there that can't figure out what to do when their programs don't work when they try to hack the big ass ork with the salt-and-pepper hair and the old cyberdeck strapped to his arm?

I Cannot argue any of that.
I am a big fan for ease of use. In the end, I like the fact that Technomancers and Magicians are very similar in their rules set. *shrug*

Then again, come to think of it, Magic also works off the "Fragged if we know how this really works. We just do it."

Despite all the high-level math that Hermetic Mages throw around like Professor Stephen Hawking on a Red Bull binge.

My personal belief is, there was life, with thoughts and emotions flying in the ether are all over the Earth, it created and shaped the Manasphere, and some people became able to manipulate mana. And then there are PAN, P2 status and private data flying in the electromagnetic spectrum all over the Earth, creating and shaping the Wireless Matrix, and some people becomes able to manipulate data.

Technomancers is no magic. But without realizing it, humanity replicated magic, creating a synthetic Datasphere that works the same way.

Mental Note: Making a magician or technomancer that trips on hallucinogenics is a bad, bad, BAD idea.

The Crash Brought the End of NERPS as a pervasive Meme. That was the intent.

Sorry, but it still shows up.

Even Crash 2.0 couldn't kill NERPS.

And yet not as Pervasive a Meme as it once NERPS!

No, not as bad, I will confess.

...

Have to fix that problem.

Some folks beleive that evolution happens in leaps not tiny degrees of change. Maybe it was not the crash that caused the leap but the sudden existence of an all pervasive digital electromagnetic field.


Then there is the possibility of guided evolution / selective breeding... Just because they aren't magical, doesn't mean they weren't created by magic. anything is posible when 6000 years old dragons start playing god.

They've been around long enough to do things right.

Hmm...

JackBNimble = Digital Ascension = A Humanity Largely Immune To Horrors

Kaer 2.0?



-k

the explain the Deep Dissonance Realms. Given that the Matrix is a Realm of the Mind and sorta a meta plane.....what if it's easier for them to get in because ti's crashed so many times

Personal note: Apparently the only totally unlikely scenario is that a great dragon could actually not have a clue about something. Suddenly I remember why I switched to CP2020 all those years back...

I'm not against that idea either.
There's just too much coincidental evidence to suggest otherwise.
In either case it effects my game not at all.

But how can we invent conspiracy theories about that?

Where is this coincidental evidence? Please lay out the chain.

4chan brought to life?

I think 4chan would make even Horrors think twice.

If you travel deep enough into the Deep Dissonance, you'll find Pedobear. He's waiting for you...

See: This thread

What thread?

I assume that he means the one that we are currently in... *shrug*