Guys, (and Galls)

I made a way of the artisan adept driver

I got 6 pilot skill + 5 reaction + 3 from impr ability pilot ground craft = 14 dice

I was wondering how well this competes with other riggers out there and how i could improve (without losing essence to cyber or bioware)

does the 5 reaction include +3 from Increased Reflexes III?

The attribute boost power can up your Reaction.

Heightened concentration power could be pretty useful.

The attunement (item) metamagic might also be worth investigating, but that would preclude any advantages from AR or VR so possibly not.

right, nope so thats anothe three dice for a total of 17

Well i'm definately going for tha attunement power that's why i dont use cyber since it doesn't do much when not us vr

where can i find thid heightened concentration power ?

On the top of my head...
+2D6 for specialization
+X Improved Attribute: Reaction (Most driving tests are reaction based AFAIK) (Adept Improved Attribute)
+1 Reaction (Changeling Metagenetic Improvement)
+1 Handling - Gearhead Quality
+2 Reaction (Lightning Reflexes Quality, unaugmented characters gain +2 reaction) (Not compatible with magic or tech mod)

well since i have improved reflexes on 3 i assumed that the lightning reflexes and impr attribute power wouldnt do anything anymore

dice wise you're neck and neck with a good rigger.
The Rigger's advantage is the -1 threshold for VR, the possibility to get 5 IPs and the fact, that he doesn't have to be in the car physically.
The meat driver's advantage is, that he doesn't have to hack the car for an account, although he might have to get it started somehow. and he can drive anything equally, no matter what the processor is.

Gearhead is a must for a, well, gearhead.

Yeah i took the 10 point version of gearhead for cars

We have an Adept Driver (Driver as opposed to Rigger) in out group as well.

9 reaction+9skill+2spec=20dice

His powers are this: imp reflexes 3, imp ability pilot groundcraft 3

He can compete pretty well.

What othe powers/skills did he go for ?

Multitasking should be in there...

That’s not bad, my TM throws 14 Command – 1 for defaulting + 2 for Hot Sim = 15 dice regardless of what type of vehicle (ground and water), and -1 to all test thresholds for driving in VR.

Edit: Corrected for accuracy

Note that atunement is a metamagic power, so requires initiation as opposed to power points.

Also note that you don't need cyberware to jump in or drive in VR (though you would lose quite a few adept bonuses if you did).

Heightened concentration is in Digital Grimoire and can be worth up to 6 dice (but usually more like 2 or 3).

You can only default on groundcraft and watercraft pilotting skills.

Well... Can't default to all vehicles.

Damn... Ninja'd by Aerospider...

Yeah, I've still never understood the Command thing. It just doesn't make sense that it works on multiple vehicles and all weapons.

Hooray - I think that's my first ever!

I guess it's meant to be like the universal tv remotes of today, but with the unnecessary buttons (for whatever you're pilotting at the time) being handily edited out.

Sure, I get the 'generic video game interface'… I just feel like it should increase all thresholds by 1, or something. It should be clumsier. At least it's slightly slower, so people are 'forced' to just use Full Bursts.

Sustenance, so he doesnt need to stop driving to pee

...and thats his magic of 5 already.



But, with 4 passes he's quite ok in meat as well.

Also, consider taking combat sense 6 for 8 power points altogether with a geas (like talisman or so) to drop the cost to 6 pp. combat sense works while in vehicle, too

Well, if your magic is a 5, you can only get 5 Levels of Combat Sense. Unless, of course, you are talking about raising your Magic first.

Well right now I have
Improved reflexes 3
Improve Ability Pilot ground vehicle 3
Iproved Ability Automotive mechanic 2
Multitasking
Improved Sense memory

I have 1PP left to spend and cant seem to decide what to take.

SO...
IR 3 = 4 PP
IA: Pilot 3 = .75 PP
IA: Automatics 2 = 1 PP
Multitasking = .5 PP
Improved Sense Memory (3 Dimensional Memory?) = .5 PP

So, that comes to 6.75 PP
with 1 PP remaining, You seem to be over Magic of 5, by a LOT.

What is your Magic?
How many times have you initiated? And did you take the PP instead of the Metamagic?

Well remember that command actions are always always always a complex.

Well if he's an Artisan's Way adept with a Geas, and took the discount from The Way on IR3+IA: Pilot (I believe both of those are valid choices for that Way) then....

IR3=2 PP
IA: Pilot = .375 PP
IA: Automatics = .75 PP
Multitasking = .375 PP
Improved Sense Memory = .375 PP
--------
Total: 3.875, so 1.125 PP left to spend.

Makes Sense... Must have missed a Way Descriptor somewhere in there then...
Yep... Right there in the first post. Go Figure.
No worries.

IR 3 with reduction is 3PP
Improve pilot 3 is .75 PP
Improved Automotive MECHANIC 2 is .5 PP
multitasking and imprved sense memory voth with reduction come to .75 PP

I have 6 magic and 1 PP left to spend

Well I have a severe allergy to clamfish perhaps improved sense taste isn't bad for .25PP and not die from sushi

Yeah, I missed it at first too, but when he mentioned having a point left over, I went back and checked. I must say, it's REALLY nice to be able to get +3 init passes for only 2 PP.


As for other powers, if your group used the optional Logic instead of program rule, I'd recommend the boost logic power, but given you didn't mention that, that power is pretty much useless unless you want to be a badass mechanic. Maybe boost some more technical skills. I believe improved tech skill can be used for any tech skill, +3 to hacking to be that much better at spoofing others' drones, or +3 to electronic warfare to defend your own from being jammed and such better would be the first two things I'd consider as a dedicated rigger.


edit:


So you did bump magic up to 6? I could have sworn you said it was 5 before. And no geas, thought you mentioned you were picking that up? Also my bad for not catching you had automotive mechanic rather than automatics.


And I'd definitely apply the Way bonus to Improve Pilot 3 rather than multitasking or improved sense memory, since it has the higher point cost so you get a bigger discount on it.


So you go from what you listed to:

IR 3 with reduction is 3PP
Improve pilot 3 with reduction is .5625 PP
Improved Automotive MECHANIC 2 is .5 PP
Multitaskin is .5 PP
Improved Sense Memory with reduction is .375 PP

Giving you 4.9375. Apply a geas to each of those and you get:

IR 3 with reduction is 2PP
Improve pilot 3 with reduction is .375 PP
Improved Automotive MECHANIC 2 is .375 PP
Multitaskin is .375 PP
Improved Sense Memory with reduction is .25 PP

For a total of 3.375 PP. Leaving you almost half your PP still to play with boosting other things.

Well i don't think our gm allows us taking gease to make specific powers cheaper.

Yeah I just checked and it was Xenefungus who mentioned the geas, not you. Sorry bout the confusion. It's definitely worth asking the GM about though, because in general most adept powers are pretty radically overpriced, the geas gets them to about where they should be.


The previous advice of using the remaining PP to boost a computer related tech skill such as hacking or electronic warfare still stands.

It just so happens that Heightened Concentration is 1 Power Point. Being able to disregard one situational dice pool penalty of up to 6 (provided you've got the action required to activate the power) is not to be underestimated.

Shall I assume that your Commlink will have a Control Rig adaptation in it? Otherwise how are you controlling those drones without a Control Rig in yer' noggin'?

Wait you can put that on your commlink without needing to spend essence on it?

I was planning on just being a driver, drones meh, and can you put a control rig in a commlink ?

If that's the case i need to get me one of those fancy commlinks from WAR

No... not in essence (no pun intended based on thread subject). Drones can be accessed through the Matrix, just like any other device, page 244 of SR4A: "Drones are devices, and like all devices each has its own node in the Matrix. Some forms of control and rigging actions (p. 245) require you to be subscribed to this node in order to function, and some do not; this will be specified in the description of the control method or action." A control rig (page 338 SR4A) just gives you +2 to your dice pool on all Vehicle skill tests, which it does by making you fully "jumped into" via a full Virtual Reality (VR) connection. You can achieve the SAME THING by using a Hot Sim in your Commlink (+2 to **all** VR actions, which actually means it is superior to a Control Rig). You are still vulnerable to attacks and hits on your Biofeedback Filter, just like someone "jumped in" through a Control Rig.

So yes, you can achieve the same effect through your Commlink by using a Hot Sim, it is just technically not a Control Rig. No reason to lose Essence if your route is Physical Adept.

Reaction=7 (7 from Exceptional Attribute Quality)
Improved Reflexes +2 (From spending 2.5 magic on the Adept power - 9 Reaction is your Augmented Maximum)
Pilot Ground Vehicle=6
(Vehicle Specialization) +2
Commlink HotSim +2
Improved Ability +4 [From spending 1 pt of Magic - your max is +4 because your base rating for the spec vehicle is 8]

23 dice pool with that one type of vehicle/drone. Any general vehicle that is not your spec vehicle type would fall to 20 dice pool.

After all that you still have 2.5 magic points left over, assuming that you are not a fool and maxed your Magic rating to 6 at the start during Creation. Also max out your Edge to 6 (or 7) during Creation and use it to pull off crazy-ass maneuvers.


That right there, is pretty damned good. Hmmmmmm... Now that I work through all that math and work out the details... that is one HELLUVA good character. Me thinks me likey my own design.... LOL....

1) I was under the impression that the bonus from hot sim and the control rig stacked. I haven't seen anything that indicates that they don't.
2) When you are in VR and jumped into a drone piloting it, you use Response instead of Reaction. So you probably have a 5 (or 6 with restricted gear, cause rating 6 system is apparently above 12 availability)
3) Improved Ability doesn't take your specialization into account for that. You don't get to go above +3 just because you are specialized.

On a related note, the biggest benefit you're missing from no cyberware is the lack of a simsense booster, which gets you that 4th initiative pass. (Speaking of, anyone know offhand what it is that gets you 5 passes? I see it referenced often but can never remember what else boosts it)

Hot and Rig do stack. You might not really *need* both, of course.

It's the Simsense 'Accelerator', IIRC. More passes is always great, of course, but it's diminishing returns after 3. That's often plenty.

Yeah, but piloting a drone eats up one pass, so you generally want at least one or the other. After looking up the Accelerator, I understand why I couldn't find it, I was looking for cyber/bio, turns out it's a commlink upgrade. And outside starting availability besides.

You're right. I'm just saying that getting to 3 is easy and probably plenty for 'normals'. 4/5 are great, but cost a lot more; specialists.

Don't forget the Improved Ability: Gunnery adept power.

By the books, it's a non-combat skill, so the P cost is cheap. Some GMs consider it a combat skill and houserule it to cost PP as such,though.

It is trivially easy for a rigger to get obscene amounts of Gunnery dice even without it, though.

Also: Tacnet. Invest in it. With a couple of fly-spy drones following you around you can pretty much always guarantee at least a TacNet 3 running, if only for you and your yehicles.

Don't discount drones. With them riggers can be nearly a one-man shadowrun team. Even just a couple of them can mean heavy weapon backup on command. The microdrones make for great scouts and infiltration units.




-k

While "jumped in" the Control Rig and the Hot Sim do stack. However, you do not get the bonus from the Control Rig any time you are not "jumped in" to the drone in question. The Hot Sim is "always on". And if you are making a Physical Adept Rigger, there is really no need for the Control Rig - it is not worth the .5 Essence cost for this kind of character.

As for the Response limit of 5 during creation, where is that? I can't seem to find it. Thanks!

That was actually a mistake on my part. I was apparently looking at the availability on matrix attributes for a nexus, which apparently scale up much faster than for a commlink.

You just need Restricted Gear for it, as Response 6 upgrade is availability 16.

Is this Response upgrade information for drones in Unwired? Augmentation? SR4A?

Thanks!

SR4A, in the section of the Matrix chapter about Device attributes.

Well I don't need a simsense booster to get a 4th initiative pass because i heve improved reflexes on 3 wwivh gives me 4 initiative passes anyay.

Only in AR, and we've been talking about VR. The reason being that's a huge PP investment for a 'non-combat' character. Certainly AR-hackers exist, of course.

Yeazh well the whol reason I made him like this is because we allready have a hacker in the team and I didn't want to mess with het schtick. So im gonne be a driver who actually uses a steering wheel *gasp*

I just went through this same thought process on a character I am playing now. The Adept is the way to go if you are just a world class driver with some really good combat skills aka Jason Stratham in Transporter. However if you are talking about traditional rigger piloting and running multiple drones and vehicles you wouldn't stand a chance against a regular cyber rigger. Other than a 20+ dice pool for driving what other rolls are you trying to fill for your team? Because vehicle combat usually doesn't happen that often. Also just to set the record straight if you go the hot sim VR route your reaction is replaced by vehicle response in your dice pool. The response for regular vehicles is 3 can only upgraded to a max two more making it 5. There is a one slot mod called modular electronics in a supplement on dumpshock that allows you to upgrade all you want which is a must have. Also there are plug in Response enhancers in Unwired. Also if you are using vehicle weapons be sure to upgrade sensor to 6 as that is part of your gunnery dice pool.

Well I guess that would be the best comparison, Jason Statham in Transporter, world class driver, pistolier and unarmed
Allthough i dont have unarmed skill yet lol