Full Version: Stretching Improved Ability
Like i said, i thank you very much for demonstrating the absurdity. Operating a turret by wire == adept, driving a car == non-adept. But wait, what if i strap a polearm onto the front of my car and use my car as a weapon. Presto, Combat skill!
By canon: Using gunnery is allowable so I'm probably not going to say no. By canon: Biotech is not alowable (and dosen't fit with the PhysAd theme) so why on earth would I say yes?
| QUOTE (Lilt @ Apr 3 2004, 09:17 PM) |
| By canon: Using gunnery is allowable so I'm probably not going to say no. By canon: Biotech is not alowable (and dosen't fit with the PhysAd theme) so why on earth would I say yes? |
Exactly: "No, for the SOLE reason that it's not canon."
EDIT: BTW was the limiting to that pg. 169 list ever discussed in an Fanpro/Wizkids FAQ or such?
He mentions another reason in parentheses, so it's not the sole reason.
| QUOTE (blakkie) |
| EDIT: BTW was the limiting to that pg. 169 list ever discussed in an Fanpro/Wizkids FAQ or such? |
Yeah, here's the quote:
Can the adept power of Improved Ability (p. 169, SR3) be applied towards other skills, such as Computer, Sorcery, Conjuring or Vehicle skills?
No. This power only improves physical ability, not technical or magical abilities.
As an optional rule, a gamemaster may allow Improved Ability to be applied towards Vehicle skills (at a cost of 0.5/level), but this would not improve a character's Vehicle skill when rigged.
Link
| QUOTE (Zazen) |
| He mentions another reason in parentheses, so it's not the sole reason. |
Writing words doesn't mean they make sense. I frankly discount that assertion because he still hasn't addressed what he learned at this First Aid course, and exactly why perception isn't key to First Aid.
He certainly hasn't explained why driving a Vehicle doesn't fit with a Physical Adept theme, given the canon quotes made here. That list simply isn't much of a list at all, and the completeness of is most definately in question, even by him (adding Parachuting, hey that is using something damn near a vehicle).
| QUOTE (Zazen @ Apr 3 2004, 09:28 PM) | ||
Yeah, here's the quote: Can the adept power of Improved Ability (p. 169, SR3) be applied towards other skills, such as Computer, Sorcery, Conjuring or Vehicle skills? No. This power only improves physical ability, not technical or magical abilities. As an optional rule, a gamemaster may allow Improved Ability to be applied towards Vehicle skills (at a cost of 0.5/level), but this would not improve a character's Vehicle skill when rigged. Link |
See, now that is truely wack given:
"There are a few adept powers that can affect a rigger's actions: Combat Sense, Enhanced Perception and the attribute and skill-improvement powers."
pg. 28, R3, and no that is not countered by the R3 eratta i have
...NOW WE SEE THE INCONSISTANCY INHERET IN THE SYSTEM!!!.
By pure canon, that part of the line is almost completely limited to the use of Gunnery. Not that it excuses it, since Gunnery used by a rigging character is has nothing to do with their physical abilities, but it is what the line refers to since that's the only "official" skill in the Improved Ability power that a rigger regularly uses. The same is true of Improved Attribute or Attribute Boost; they don't affect Intelligence, but the Quickness boosts can apply to a rigger's Reaction and Quickness.
| QUOTE (blakkie) |
| Writing words doesn't mean they make sense. I frankly discount that assertion... |
Just because you disagree doesn't mean that he didn't use it as a reason and thus isn't using canon as his sole reason.
| QUOTE (A Clockwork Lime) |
| By pure cannon, that part of the line is almost completely limited to the use of Gunnery. Not that it excuses it, since Gunnery used by a rigging character is has nothing to do with their physical abilities, but it is what the line refers to since that's the only "official" skill in the Improved Ability power that a rigger regularly uses. |
No, that line cannot be used as direct proof that you can use Improved Skill - Car, otherwise i would have stated that disallowing Improved Skill - Car was not strict canon. I certainly didn't mean to imply that. But the second part, that you could use a Improved Skill via a rig was my point.
Frankly i think shows that within the Shadowrun designers themselves there is a tension on the nature of Adepts. That the self-disipline and training of the Adept yearns to spill over the rather narrow confines of the page 169 list. That they wish to be more than just higher jumpers, quicker cutters, and sharper shooters.
See my edit above.
Note also that I'm talking pure canon in those instances, not that I agree with it whatsoever.
Note also that I'm talking pure canon in those instances, not that I agree with it whatsoever.
| QUOTE (Zazen) | ||
Just because you disagree doesn't mean that he didn't use it as a reason and thus isn't using canon as his sole reason. |
My reason for allowing Improved Skill to be used with Tamagotchi B/R is that you are a lovely, plump turnip.
Personally, I don't see improved Biotech ability as being "out of theme" for an adept. The same sources that give us legendary martial artists also give us martial artists with super-cool healing abilities, as well as master craftsmen. That is why, despite it being non-canon, that I have no problem allowing adepts to use the Improved Ability power for Biotech and B/R skills.
I'll admit that Improved Ability in Biotech can be combined with complementary dice from knowledge skills and medkits, plus centering to reduce penalties, to create a truly superhuman healer. But for such a character to be the cyber-implant techie of choice for the team, that character would actually have to have a cyberware clinic, and even an alphaware clinic involves quite an investment in time and resources. For betaware or better, as likely or not the team will have to get someone else to do it, unless the GM is running a very high-powered campaign.
I'll admit that Improved Ability in Biotech can be combined with complementary dice from knowledge skills and medkits, plus centering to reduce penalties, to create a truly superhuman healer. But for such a character to be the cyber-implant techie of choice for the team, that character would actually have to have a cyberware clinic, and even an alphaware clinic involves quite an investment in time and resources. For betaware or better, as likely or not the team will have to get someone else to do it, unless the GM is running a very high-powered campaign.
| QUOTE (Glyph) |
| Personally, I don't see improved Biotech ability as being "out of theme" for an adept. The same sources that give us legendary martial artists also give us martial artists with super-cool healing abilities |
Yeah, but those super-cool martial artists weren't using biotech, they were using hokey mystical healing pressure-point stuff. That's why I said that it should be a seperate power, not "Improved Ability". That way it can take on the character of someone who lays on hands, manipulates chi through pressure points, excersizes chakra control, etc. to augment his first aid skills, rather than the boring image of someone whose adept powers made him less prone to goofing off in medical school.
Dr. Yeng and Wong Kei Ying in Iron Monkey (great movie!) were both definitely "adepts" by Shadowrun standards, and both were insanely capable medicine men. No, they weren't using any sort of pressure point power either; they were practicing "real" medicine for their time. They even managed to concoct a medical treatment for an unstoppable magical adept power used by an evil monk. And yes, it was implied that their abilities were well and above what other doctors in the movie were capable of.
there's a buttload of powers you can use instead, although the way i read it in SOTA64 on the improved ability (expanded) table, there's literally no reason why it'd be 'illegal'. you can use it on artistic/performance KO, B/R, social and vehicle skills too. otherwise there's other powers from sota64 that a doctor would be glad to have. empathic healing and pain relief all the while centering the skill up and pain away.
QUOTE (child of insanity @ Dec 29 2008, 04:04 PM) 
there's a buttload of powers you can use instead, although the way i read it in SOTA64 on the improved ability (expanded) table, there's literally no reason why it'd be 'illegal'. you can use it on artistic/performance KO, B/R, social and vehicle skills too. otherwise there's other powers from sota64 that a doctor would be glad to have. empathic healing and pain relief all the while centering the skill up and pain away.
Dude, this thread is over 4 years old. Why the Necro?
probably did a forum search and did not look at the date of the last post
was wondering why so many were quoting sr3.
QUOTE (Maelstrome @ Dec 29 2008, 08:58 PM)
was wondering why so many were quoting sr3.
I was wondering why the hell I was listed as posting in this thread until I checked the date...
-Siege
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Dec 30 2008, 06:40 AM)
probably did a forum search and did not look at the date of the last post
my search-fu is weak. :o
Go for it ,allow it,Its only +3 more Dice
HougH!
Medicineman
HougH!
Medicineman
I wandered in here expecting an adept ability to stretch limbs to ridiculous distances.
I was gravely disappointed.
-karma
I was gravely disappointed.
-karma
*shrugs*
"I'll Allow It!"
"I'll Allow It!"
I was somewhat confused by this thread, and also the appearance of a bunch of DSers I'd never heard of, despite lurking/posting infrequently for a couple of years now. That is one mighty feat of necromancy!
Quite interesting to see how things have changed, and how in some ways it's all the same.
Now I'm wondering how long until it sinks into obscurity again.
Quite interesting to see how things have changed, and how in some ways it's all the same.
Now I'm wondering how long until it sinks into obscurity again.
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