I got this in the mail today and am a litlte disappointed it seems to be guns, guns, honking huge planes and a few drones and trucks. I'm of two minds. For the entrys there are, they are very nice and well put together. but for the cost of this there do not really seem to be so many. think of the orignal Street Samurai catalogue with a hard cover and that's pretty much what I feel. I would also like to have seem other sorts of gear, comm kits, survival/wilderness tool etc.

among the guns i do like that thy's added the older guns like the Berretta 92 and 1911 Browning. I really miss Raygun's commentary now. He could have far more expert input. I'm a complete italian pistol slut though for accuracy i prefer the .380 Cheetah over the 9mm 92F. It only has a 10 round mag instead of 15 but it's easier to hide- I've written at length here of the difficulties of concealing a gun on women's clothes, and is more acucrate. In general the 9mm pulls a little to the side and for hitting power have been surplanted by the .40 inUS culture.

I will say that 95% of the stuff in the Runner Black Book was already available, since the RBB is really just a compilation of the recent PDF-only books that have come out in the past couple of years. They just added in a handful of new weapons/items and tweaked some of the commentary.



-k

Which is great for me because I haven't picked up a single one. I should be lazy more often.

Should be Colt 1911. James Browning worked for Colt when it was made. The only people that would call it a 1911 Browning work for Browning Colt and Springfield would be the two most iconic due to U.S. military contracts.

I don't have the book, but since a 1911 is .45 ACP by definition, and in the SR universe they've consolidated ammo types. Does that mean that .45 ACP won out that division as standard? Not important, but I'm wondering if that was considered.

I've downloaded all the PDFs that were collated to make RBB.

I'd like to see the "extra" stuff they put in.

You can, for a low low price!

I've of two minds of having to buy everything again. I mean, I already got the majority of everything. But it is in a smaller package than the binder I have the print-outs in, it'll be in colour, and my FLGS/Army Surplus store over-ordered, so I will be getting it.

Still got a bit of a bad taste from it, however. Like a slap in the face I always feel for being an early adopter. ... ... Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

Interesting. Well at least they are trying to establish some added value for buying print over PDF. Anybody care to list some of the print-only stuff?

I understand: I bet we both hate buying Blu Ray of our favorite movie we've bought in VHS and DVD in the past too God help me if they then release an extra footage version

That's a tricky line for a game company to walk these days-- you want to release a supplement in PDF first b/c the economy is bad if it's not a "must buy" for fans. But then if it sells, it looks like there could be a market for a printed copy, b/c a lot of fans prefer these. So Catalyst threw in a little extra content to soften the blow, but at the same time it also enforces the "you should have waited to buy this version" feeling.

It's a tough situation for both sides.

Since I didn't have any of the pdf's I didn't have that issue.

Shades of anita Blake I did have a Browning hi-power but i didn't like it. It's nothing I can put a finger on,it was relaible accurate etc but i never warmed to it the way i did my italian 9mm.

Neat to work up would be the Mataba-semi-automatic .357 magnum revolver-wonderfully accurate, straightest shooter of any gun I've owned but concealability is a non-issue, it's big, blocky and LOUD. I sold it a few years ago and at the range I'm stil lthe girl with "the itlaian monster.'

I'm mildly freaked out by predator drones. I mean now, 2011 they are commonplace in military news but in 1989 they were not and how well did FASA imagine this.

Consider how many gamers are in the military. Doesn't take much of a reach to think that at least some of the egg heads working on items were Shadowrun gamers.

And there's been Bomb Disposal "Drones" for quite some time now.

I read somewhere that most inventions begin with Engineers watching Star Trek and saying "We can do that"

I am totally pissed! I only bought some of the pdf-only supplements, because they were pdf ONLY. I don´t buy pdfs otherwise, because I like to support my LGS by getting my hardcopies there, which means there are no pdf discount bundles and otherwise the pdf is just too damn expensive as an extra. I stopped buying any pdf only products since they anounced the blackbook, and I will not buy any in the future!

Fair enough.

I'd imagine that a purse, thigh holster while wearing a skirt, or a holster in the small of your back under a loose fitting blouse would work. Won't pass a frisking, but then again most weapons concealed on a person wouldn't pass a thourough frisking. The downside is of course getting to it when needed.

I wish the sling (not the slingshot) were one of SR's listed weapons. A bubble-beaded necklace and a macrame belt becomes a ranged weapon firing capsules to heavy pistol ranges. (In the real world the range is longer but I think a lot of people would object.)

I know for a fact that modern hospital room layouts, with the various equipment around the bed, is a direct result of a doctor watching Star Trek in the 60s and realizing that sickbay's Bio-Beds were a good idea.

Flip Phones are a prime example of that. The ability to protect the screen and buttons was actually a secondary consideration. Everyone wanted to flip open just like Captain Kirk. What about the Little Black Dress? Not much you can conceal in that.

Or a string bikini. Of course, there's not much you can hide in a set of trunks for a guy even, forget a speedo.

True, but her purse would at least be able to hold a hold-out pistol-with the larger the purses able to conceal a larger gun. I'd limit it to a machine pistol though.

Speedo's don't even hide the gun, much less anything else!

As someone who had little to do with RBB itself, but who's working on some other e-book material, I'm sorry to hear you say that. To clarify -- if you don't mind -- it sounds like your primary complaint is that it wasn't announced in advance that the pdf-only products would eventually be assembled into a dead-tree product, right? You're not mad that they were made available both ways, only that that wasn't clear from the beginning?

I ask because I'm really not sure what plans exist to bundle up more e-book material into hardcopy form, but that however they may or may not choose to do it (I'm not in that sort of decision making, I just write), they'll want to work on being more clear about the eventual possibility.

At any rate, I'm sorry it's soured you on pdf material from us, really.

Actually... it depends on the design of the LBD and trunks. and while we're at it willingness to sacrifice comfort for being armed.

A hold out pistol, especially with a gecko grip, can be placed just above the scrotum (with the barrel pointed down to the left or right of the sac) and be pretty much invisible to most observation even when sitting.

So long as the dress isn't TOO short -- which for most women is the rule -- the gecko allows it to be placed very high on the inner thigh and be out of sight.

As to willingness, I used to work in a prison. One of the cases used as part of our training was the woman who'd smuggled a small pistol into the facility mostly tucked into her vagina. When you're done with the tasteless jokes and/or gagging and/or wincing you can consider the fellow who tried to do similarly with the barrel stuck up his anus.

So long as you don't go for skin-tight clothing it is amazing - even without the extremes just mentioned - how much can be hidden from casual and even focused concentration. It probably won't pass a pat-down but thanks to the gecko grip I can easily see a troll in swim trunks and beach tee packing two or even three handguns without particular notice.

No tasteless jokes from me. I am currently a Corrections Officer, and have seen and heard FAR to much for this to be anything but true. Hell, maybe even a bit toned down really.

Ah, then you'll get this one.

One of the most dangerous men in the prison was a paraplegic. Brilliant sociopath. We got in the habit of replacing his wheelchair every few weeks just because we could never be certain we'd found all the weapons.

OMG, my mind just went into CO mode for a sec. and went to over 30 different parts right away. Yeah, hiding a weapon is not really that hard (or worse, a cell phone even). Then you might understand why I am hoping my state passes the policy for mandatory hair cuts...I hate dealing with dreds. Nothing personal to tjose that have/like them, but professionally they are a nightmare.

heh. Braids, whether long, cornrow, beards...

I despised the guys who could stand the pain of subcutaneous. (Slip a lockpick under the skin, usually under an old tattoo or next to a prominent vein/tendon...)

Another bad one was the artist. He got moved about a month after I started. He developed the knack of drawing keys. Accurately.

Or the know it all. as in, "new officer trying different keys to let an inmate janitor into the office for cleaning and the inmate says which key it is....." O_o

He's one to watch.

I could go on and on and.....

Anyway, not to derail the thread completely...my only beef with the RBB is that it's physical copy ONLY. I have run from my laptop for a while now and this is at best a major inconvenience.

I was on the fence for the RBB for quite a bit. On one hand, I already bought the vast majority of this material, and really disliked not being appraised that a book was coming out at a later time (That said, I have bought both PDFs and DTF versions of books, so, that point there is not applicable.). The thing that really got to me was that extra material was only available in DTF. Seemed like a rip-off for the folks that use the PDFs for quick research (Like myself.).

But, I just had to haul the printed out versions of the E-Books around in their binders, and my FLGS/Army Surplus shop over-ordered the books, so, those two items put me over the edge into buying it. Not exactly happy, but hey, there we are.

I've gone through it a quick once-through, found one page that was cut-off a bit too much (Printers error, not CGL's fault), but other than that it's well bound and seems to have all the info. I like the new Shadowtalk from our old friend Nightfire, the Ares Rep. I'm wondering how he got onto the JackPoint, or if he somehow got a datafile of the comments made from the JackPoint and is giving comments for his Superiors to read about... Be nice to get a clarification on that one.

There is new art for the This Old Drone items, which are very nice. This brings it into the "Gear Porn" level that the other e-books are, and they're actually fairly well done. The new firearms (And Katana) are actually well drawn (Especially compared to the new firearms from Gun Haven Heaven), and look like actual firearms (*GASP*!).

The vehicles look better on glossy paper than on my screen (And a lot better than on the black and white laser printer copies I made), and the portability (Compared to the binders) is a selling point.

In the end, am I happy with my purchase? I can't say "Yes", but I also can't say "No", either. I still feel a little... Hit by the "PDF-Only" items suddenly coming out in DTF. Perhaps if there wasn't stuff in there that was DTF-only, I'd be less upset. I just bought a PDF & DTF copy like I do other books. I'd also enjoy an updated version of This Old Drone to what is shown in RBB as well, as that is some seriously sweet artwork!

Would I suggest this book to others? Well, for those that haven't gotten the PDF-Only items and want all the things in them, yes, I would. If you only want certain items (Such as boats or old drones), go for the PDF-Only versions and buy what you need. If you've already got the PDF-Only items... Well, you gotta decide on your own.

I was able to get the PDFs pre-Black Book, and when that book as announced, I ask on the SR FB page if the 'additional' stuff would be made available to those who grabbed the PDF files. I believe the reply was "We're working on something special for those who did get the PDFs."

And yes, (even though I don't currently have a flip-model phone), if I get a flip-phone, I want all the Star Trek sounds to go with it.

I like the book, picked it up yesterday. THey went old school with the pics and some commentary (which I prefer over arsenal brief description). Also, I'm glad they did, cause I prefer books over PDF's and I don't think I would have picked it up otherwise (though tempted). It was great to see some the old stuff back in the game too (Stonewall MBT FTW).

Exactly. I think the pdf products were decent - I´d always wish for more, but they were ok mostly. I´m not even so much anoyed that they where printed. If the stuff sells well enough for that, that´s good, and I wouldn´t complain (though some more clarity would be appreciated). But I really have a grudge for the pdf stuff getting mixed up with a small addition of print only stuff. I know that it makes some sense economically, but it feels like robbing the ppl who bought the pdfs and only wanted that OR a hardcopy...

One question.

In the PDFs, they were able to go back to the old school "one item per page" format since they did not have a page count cost factor to worry about.

Previously the developers indicated they stopped the practice for print products and started squeezing as many items into a page as possible since the printing costs for evey extra page were getting horrendous.

Did the content in this compiled edition retain one-page-per-item formatting?



-k

It did (mostly, I think there are some minor items, like missils or vehicle weapons with more then one per page, not sure if it was like thjat in pdf).

It did indeed (Save for some vehicle weapons, whoopy-doo, I know what a fraggin' 500-lbs. unguided bomb looks like), and did the one-item per page with new art on "This Old Drone", with some really decent artwork.

For the record and talking from RL experience you're not hiding a gun in an LBD. I've never tried a thigh holster but the term 'chaf city' was used in an Anita Black book. As for the more...intimate hiding, forget it. I have a .25 Berretta Bobcat that you can bore out and have turned into a .38sp Tomcat, but they tend to crack the barrell. That can be hidden easily in a pocket but how much kick does it have?

A 38special S&W airweight with an extended J-frame has a 2 inch barrell and is made of light weight alloys and can disappear into a coat pocket without making a bulge- heavy hit but accuracy is negligble. The guys at my range were shocked I can use mine well at a target 30 feet off. They said "It's for like 10 feet."

I don't believe in carrying in a purse. That's useless. You're not getting to it in time. you're not going to do it.

In a cocktail dress I'm not going to be carrying.

Motorcycle jacket can carry up to the 38 airweight in an internal pocket.

In a suit, taylored it's difficult but if you leave the jacket undone you can hide something 38 or .380 in the small of your back.

My casual wear usually has a jacket on over a skirt of jeans and the jacket nicely hides my .380 Cheetah on a hip holster (I don't like shoulder holsters). In cold fall and winter I wear a longer coat that allows the 9mm or .357 S&W.

Even in Summer a linnen 'boyfriend' jacket comes a 'multitude of sins'

Gym wear or tankini- get real.

Do you mean Anita Blake, Vampire Humper?

Also, 30 feet with a 2-inch .38 revolver? Impressive! And I'm not even a shooter to know that!

Depends on her grouping and if it was double or single action. Your shorter barrel equals lower velocity, so the accuracy drops off more dramatically the farther out you get, the smaller frame messes with a lot of peoples grip (I don't like them). At 10 yards, I'd expect a 75/100 points on 10 rounds to a standard target. I shoot about 90/100 with a full frame Colt Goldcup 1911 and bulk PMI or Federal ammo at 15 yards (respectable, my wife is the superstar).


Now this is impressive.
Bob Munden 200 yards with snub nose

I have small hands so that's not a problem. but I'm most comfortable with a .380 Berretta though I'd like to try a Walther for comparrison.

If I carry a weapon I require a level of accuracy just to be responsible. It was the guys at the range who said they were impressed with the marksmenship. They also appreciate when sdome idiot is trying to show off to a girl by blowing big holes in a target at 10 feet that I'll run a target down to 50-60 feet and have better groupings


The extended j frame means the hammer is covered inside the frame so you can draw it from inside clothes without it snagging, the nick namei s the bodyguard frame. You can't mannually cock it and you can't see it going back to know how to let it fly. also the S&W airweight is made of light weight alloys so it won't make a heavy bulge in your pocket but that also means there isn't much mass to absorb recoil. I've fired guns that are bigger but that's the one that hurts my hand the most with the biggest kick.

For things you never get warned about, the Berretta bobcat .25, very accurate but lousy hitting power, tends to eject straight back, not to the side. usually they go over my head. occassionally bounce off the top and every once in a while, one odwn the front of my shirt. You don't want to know what it's like to get hot brass in the cleavage. It's painful and damn silly all at once.

I would never want a gun that ejects backwards, I have this terrible fear of things in my eyes. Also, Hot brass going down the shirt hurts and is no less awkward when you're male.

It's a lot less fun to watch us jump around afterwards/during, though.

I remember watching some Western Re-Enactors on TV with my folks and a Winchester '73 was being demonstrated in slow motion, the brass bouncing off the hat of the shooter. My Mother, knowing I had just researched Western-Era for Deadlands, asked if that's why they wore cowboy hats. "One reason" was all I could answer without laughing.

One of the nice parts I like about the Calico-Series of weapons (aside from a "small" magazine size of 50-rounds!) is the bottom ejection port for the brass. They even have brass catchers for it. Now if only they made it in .45 ACP. *Checks Website* Oh, .40 S&W coming soon, 2010... They're website needs updating methinks.

'Course, as always, the comment that I'm not a shooter and don't know what the hell I'm talking about anyhow.

Release stuff electronic-only: some people bitch, some people buy it.

Compile electronic stuff into print later: some people bitch, some people buy it.

End result? More people buying it, more people have the material, and the people who are actually using it are happy. (Unless they're not happy with it, but quality of the material itself is irrelevant to the format discussion.)

100 people bitching and 100 happy people is better than 50 people bitching and 50 happy people.

*Sighs* Can't argue with that. How about the people that are happy and bitching at the same time? Do we count in both groups, or as a third one?

You can smuggle a budgie.

One of the players in my SR game recently bought a Raging Judge with an extended barrel. Monster of a gun... I could not hold it on target for long before my arms got tired.

But his Mom loved the gun. It shoots 410 shotgun shells and seems like it would have alot of kick, but because the gun is so freaking heavy the recoil is negligible. The long barrel helps too, and makes its get great range on .45 and .454

I dont think your are going to be hiding that one in any orifices though...

yeah but unless you're into an alternate lifestyle you're not wearing a bra underneath the shirt that can catch the brass against delecate skin. gotta love these little details that are never going to get into a rule book. Just thinknig of that as a glitch- the brass ejects into your blouse and catches in your bra!

Yet another positive point to caseless rounds.

To kinda drive things back on-topic here.

One of the things that I noticed is the lack of calibur variants on some models of firearms, not only in the rbb, but other books, too. While a partial firearm enthusiast, I do realize that there is only so much that can be done. To give a good example, the M1911A1 is chambered in many different caliburs (38 special, I am sure. Father has one), but if they were to take that into account, they would probably have to redo the health/damage system entirely.

My desire is to eventually go through the samurai catalogue and rework the other weapons, like the Predator 3 and etc, using the pred 2 and 1 as a sort of model for it.

They'd have to talk about calibers then. Which I would love...

I'm pretty sure that they DO talk about calibers, though, that's the thing! They at least mention that a weapon is/was produced with varying calibers, but I think that's mostly in the RBB that they do it, if at all, because they talk about the older and real-life weapons, whereas I doubt that the other sourcebooks, like the SR4a or Arsenal, even mention calibers beyond a minor talk about sharing ammo between guns.

Given what people have managed to shove up their lower orifices, I wouldn't be too sure about that...who knows, maybe street docs also have an ass box for all the stuff runners "fell on"

OK, the fixed angle between body and grip probably makes it difficult with normal firearms, but that's a problem for the engineers.