My PCs have been enjoying taking Spirit Bane in my current game; as they're all newbies to the system, they haven't quite realized how nasty it can be, so I've been fairly gentle (so far... ) Out of the eight PCs (4 primaries, 4 backups for when the inevitable happens...), at least a quarter of them have Spirit Bane of some sort. The voodoo-mon mage has Spirit Bane: Guidance. He doesn't like how bloody cryptic the damn things are, and wishes they'd just give a straight answer for once. Things in that department have been going downhill for a long time... hehe...

So, last session, he has to summon Guidance spirits to use their Divination power. First time around, the spirit rolls a critical glitch on the power activation, so I stand up and give about five solid minutes of pseudo-philosophical BS about how ultimately everything is meaningless, especially the concept of possession, so it is hard to say if this man will possess the stolen statue-masterpiece, because who can ultimately determine what possession really means? The look on the player's face was priceless. Later, he tries to summon a Guidance spirit again, and the damn thing gets 4 hits on its resistance test. Mage suddenly has a very nasty headache from Drain and I tell him, that he thinks that, just maybe, in the back of his head, but he might be imagining it... but just possibly... he thinks he hears... coming from the metaplanes... *raspberry* Was quite entertaining.

So, anyone else got any fun Spirit Bane stories?

Spirit Bane:Watchers....

Think it won't hurt to have that and get your freebie BP eh?

After Watchers stopping by and watching everything you are doing on a run while manifesting, Watchers showing up and finding you instead of what they should have found, Watchers showing up delivering messages intended for someone else, showing up asking you for messages intended for someone else, and Watchers being sent by really powerful mages who get really annoyed when you keep banishing or destroying them. Watchers falling in love with you and scaring your SO... Watchers chatting with the Johnson during your meet.

After that, they'll take a regular Spirit Bane:Beast Spirits every time....

Oh, what was really funny is that I had TWO PCs with that Watcher Spirit Bane ....

sadly nothing ever happened at our table in this area. Probably nobody takes this quality, because we really fear spirits.
But sometimes we use this house rule with a little mechanical effects on the spirits' character. Spirit Bane has an influence here.

One of my players took Spriti Bane: Water and Incompetent: Swimming with a fear of water from a past Trauma. Toxic shaman is polluting the river, SUMMON TOXIC WATER SPIRIT! Player: I'm going to run away. The rest of the team take down the shaman while the infiltraition expert gets chased around by a floating ball of greenish water. Best distraction ever.

Actually it doesn't really matter which type of spirits is taken for the Spirit Bane. If the GM feels the need to take the player to task for taking the Quality for his character, then it doesn't really matter which spirit is specified. Strictly speaking, I run Spirit Bane as only as explicitly spelt out in the book. So if it was Watchers, then they'd harass the character only if they are in his presence, but they won't go out of their way to find him.

In fact I think that it is not that it won't hurt to have Spirit Bane: Watchers but it should hurt the least. Nearly any other spirit type is capable of doing worse things. As it stands, it is more likely the Watcher spirits will screw up harassing the PC and not accomplishing their goal of harassing him.

I took "Spirit Bane: Watcher" for my Elven Wheelman, Nas, as I figured those would be the worst for him to have to deal with. Being able to track him and on the watch for him, aggressively so, while he can't even see them.

But, yeah, other spirits will frag your drek up five ways from Sunday!

I don't think I'd allow spirit bane: watcher.

It's a bit too much cheese. Yeah watchers can do X, Y and Z... but so can any REAL spirit sent out on the same missions! To be useful as a negative quality... it would almost have to distract any watchers from their original tasks. (hey boss, here's the guy you were looking for...).



Of the ones I've taken as a PC... only spirit bane: beasts so far...

We are playing "Ghost Cartels" at the moment and my mage tried to Initiate with suffering ordeal.
Well he survived the Initiation but my GM gave the the Spirit Bane "Plant Spirits" and I think that will cause a lot of pain since the description of the questbook on the back says the Run leads to the amazon jungle ... and it is name GHOST cartels ...
Think I shouldn't be too attached to my character now hehe

But don't spoiler any of the rest of the run please, haven't played it before

I will post again in case something happens to my character!

I have a PC magician of the Zoroastrian Tradition who is Amnesiac and believes (rightly or wrongly, as the GM chooses) that he is a fallen angel from the hosts of Ahura Mazda. He must, in his own estimation, redeem himself for whatever transgression got him banished to Earth by waging war against demons on this plane of existence.

He has Spirit Bane (Shedim). Should be fun.

I thought everyone got Spirit Bane: Shedim for free?

Well, instead of watchers following him around, maybe there are Shedim waiting for him to astrally project and leave his body behind.

"What's that noise? Oh... it's three Shedim fighting over which one gets to possess Yazata's body."

That's hardcore... taking a bane quality against any kind of free spirit like that. Brownie points to the mage for taking that one!

Unlike the guys running around with watcher banes...

I strongly want to take Spirit Affinity (Shedim) for my next character. Just out of curiosity, what the GM will do with it.

Spirit Bane: Insect.

Doesn't Sticks have that one?

Spirit Bane: Toxic Spirits?

I could see a crusading environmentalist that's had major successes against Toxics to get that by default.

Spirit Banes I have allowed other than Watcher:
1) Shedim
2) Blood Spirits
3) Toxic Spirits, by subtype, eg. Carnage
4) Insect Spirits, by "species" and/or subtype, eg. Roach Caretaker

I would allow some subtype of Shadow spirits as Spirit Bane but no one has taken me up on that.

Oh wait, I recall two more:
5) Imps
6) Ghosts, by subtype, eg. Apparitions

Thanks, but it just made sense for him.

Doesn't anyone think Watchers are too mindless to support a Bane? I had thought that this was their crucial difference.

I agree partially. I think that they are able to support the Bane but not able to do anything significant about it.

Most of the interesting powers could be runs unto themselves. The team could get halfway through a run before realizing they were currently experiencing a share hallucination courtesy of one of Bob's spirit buddies; then they have to figure out how much of their day has been real, and how much Confusion. Did they agree to the run? Are they on the run now? Is this still Confusion?

Movement can be crippling or just cruel, depending on how it's used. Speeding someone up unexpectedly while they're walking down stairs can kill them; slowing someone down when they're on the way to an important meeting can just be annoying.

Accident is the same way: pratfalls are just humiliating, but falling off a fourth-story gantry while breaking out of the research facility could well be the death [or perhaps just capture, mwah ha ha] of the character.

So they can be plot drivers, or just flavor. Players like the personal acknowledgement of little asides like, while they're walking down a crowded city street, a Spirit of Man just stopping them to berate the character, for whatever slight, real or imagined. Little scenes like that really make a game, and they're one of the best opportunities for Qualities like Spirit Bane.


They're mindful enough to insult a burger joint. I think of them as being about as smart as a dog gifted with the power of speech. An obedient but not particularly clever dog. Certainly I think they're mindful enough say, while the character's in bed, "It's funny, but he didn't make that noise when he was with your sister last week," or while the character's sneaking under the fenceline, "He's over here. You might also like to know he was in that shed over there a couple of minutes ago, and I hear he was at one of your offices last week. If you need some proof, I can take you to his house," or while he's meeting with the Johnson, "Pretty brave, considering what he did to the last guy who hired him, but it's your money and your knees, so be my guest!" Watchers could be every bit as terrible to make enemies of as any other spirit, if used strategically. And their very mindlessness makes them capable of any kind of personality: they can be empty drones, fragments from the depth of the astral plane, proof that the whole cosmos hates the character; or they can be lighthearted pranksters, a way for the GM to inject a little levity into the game.

Ah. I always thought of them as totally brain-dead robotic, with no capacity to 'dislike' anything, in the same way a chair can't. Tools, not entities. I also had the idea that they're not really persistent creatures, just astral things that exist for a few hours and then… don't.

Nah, they're described as "Dog Smart", and I often play them up as overactive children. Like a hyper puppy that's eager to please.

You get the Spirit Bane, however, they'll do everything in their power to piss you off.

One trick that I figured out for a Pseudo-TacNet Communications System is a Watcher that just runs to everyone REALLY FAST and repeats what everyone says to each other. No Emissions to catch that way if the security is high tech/low magic. Thing is, if you have Spirit Bane: Watchers, well... It'll get your messages wrong, "Forget" to tell you, instead of whispering in your ear it'll scream it really loud (In your ear, and audible to everyone else), and so on.

As asked of me at a Con Demo: "How loud do these things get, anyhow?" "Led Zeppelin, Live, cranked to 11. Over 140 dB. Barely trying." "Damn... That's loud."

Usually... but I've been a GM and a player took the equivalent of bane for watchers in the past, and in SR4

I let him.

And when ever he tried to use one, it would find ways to annoy him out of spite.

told to watch an item, it would.. but materialize and shout loudly "hey numbnutz wants me to watch this pos.. come take it somewhere with better scenery for me!"

Stuff like that..

It's where something about the mage just irked them instinctively driving them to be faster to report or act against him. Or corrupt his instructions like a bad dog told to sit hopping up in the recliner and getting comfortable.

One of the things I find most interesting about the Shadowrun magic system is that this can be absolutely true...for some watchers, summoned by some people. If that's what the caster thinks, that's the watchers they'll summon, so surely such watchers would exist.

Even then, they could be dreadful: some people are magnets for insects, for instance, and while a wasp can't hate, if every time one saw me, it stung me, that'd be a real pain in the ass. Hell, just having a watcher buzzing around your face while you're trying to fire the grapple into exactly the right place is frustration enough.

Get yer towel and think of the rain god from the guide ;3 Bane doesn't always mean hate, it can be bad love too..

That's hilarious: I was actually thinking of Rob McKenna yesterday when I was thinking about this! Of course, in Seattle, who'd notice?

"No, stop humping my leg and do what I told you! Bad Watcher!!!" "What's WizWyrm's problem?" "Got me, he's acting like the time he had that Demon Rat pheromones got juiced on his pants and they kept humping him." "Best fifty nuyen I ever spent."

Ah, well I had it wrong, then.

I wouldn't go for complicated insults, but they can probably sense when you're trying to concentrate, and then go make "yo mama's so fat..." jokes.

"Get the popcorn, the magicians are squaring off!" "Man, this is going to be EPIC! Two powerful magicians in Desert Wars!!! Just them, no armies! What's it going to be???" "..." "What the hell?" "That... Was a 'Yo Mama' joke in Afrikaner." "You have got to be kidding me." "..." "And the reply in Aztlaner Spanish." "How much did we pay for this?" "100¥ for the Pay-Per-View." "Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff..."

I've just always taken the view... spirit bane is a 10 point negative quality. It should have about as much impact as a criminal SIN.

And watchers can't quite do that... unless you get really nasty about it and have watchers 'glitch' and bring all kinds of unwanted attention on the mage. If it's not a mage who takes it it's even worse... as there's limited ways for a watcher to annoy a mundane short of 'intentional misidentification' issues bringing attention.

Well, Watchers are the most common form of spirit, so while the individual Watcher can't do quite so much damage as a Guardian can, it's going to happen a lot more often.

All those Watchers just being used in society, to keep an eye on stores, shout slogans, etc - they'll always be bothering you. Calling after you, drawing attention to you, reporting you as dangerous even if you've done nothing to indicate it.

Yeah, just imagine the ad ones...

"hey sweet lady come buy from my master's store, he has the best talismans in all of seattle."


bane walks by

"hey drekhead, buy something from the store. Maybe you'll be a real shadowrunner some day instead of a sewer rat in a trenchcoat!"

Somewhere on this board, there's a thread with pranks and practical jokes to play in character. What brought this to mind was one idea in that thread: having a watcher manifest inside the annoying troll and then say, in a little kid voice, "I'm so little, and this big nasty troll ate me all up!"

*Makes Notes* Continue, please?

Trying to find said thread... I do vaguely recall that it's a nasty thing to do to annoying trolls when they're in proximity to Humanis thugs...

Well, lots of things to do when you're inside the Troll's Panzer Cozy.

Bah, my Google-Fu is weak today. Can't find it.

Re: Spirit Bane (Watchers)
While they can't physically attack runners, they are the most common spirits in the 6th world. I would allow one of my players to take it if they were foolish enough, but they would be heckled whereever they went and they'd better not even think of trying to sneak anywhere ...

Re: Spirit Bane (Toxic Spirits, Insect Spirits)
I thought the RAW doesn't allow this, as toxic spirits are likely to be hostile to PCs in the first place. Can anyone confirm/refute this?
Saying that, I did make an exception for the mage I GM: in his background he had fought and foiled a hive when he was cutting his running teeth (ending up with their foiling the hive, but his master got smoked in a revenge attack and he had to get outta Chicago fast). I run it a little like the Enemy quality (which along with a whole lotta RC qualities I don't allow), in that should he come up against insect spirits, his past deeds will reflect in his aura and should he come accross any insect spirits in game he will become a Person of Interest to the hive ...

I don't see a reason why not to allow it--it's a quality that says that you seriously torque off a specific breed of spirit, which means that, in a fight, you're at the top of their target list; it's one thing for toxics and insects to be universally hostile, it's another when they have a grudge against you in particular, and are willing to single you out for priority destruction. A crusading environmentalist should certainly be able to pick up Toxic Bane and someone like Sticks, with the hunting down bugs thing, should certainly be able to pick up Insect Bane. Hmm... that could be an interesting plotline... a group of successful Ares Firewatch bughunters all picked up Insect Bane during their hunts, and now the Insects are deliberately picking them off, one by one, either killing them or investing them...

You're extra tasty to those spirits, and even if the other members of the group are bigger threats, well... "COOKIE!!!"

Corpsec hates Shadowrunners, but I still give points for the Enemy flaw; I'd allow Toxics and other normally hostile spirits to be the subject of a Spirit Bane.

Allow spirit bane and it's reverse to apply to sprites....



Been there and done that... oh the fun : Sprite Bane - Machine Sprites

I hurt my back and so am at home reading my Shadowrun books. (mwahaha! fear toturi when he has time to read his SR books!)

Ahem.

Can anyone give me an SR4 reference where watchers are, well, common? I know that any magician with Summoning can summon watchers but are they really explicitly common?

You can summon as many watchers as you have Charisma. You can only summon one unbound spirits of other types at a time.

Also, a low-powered magician (Most of them), can summon Watchers like a boss, whereas they'd have problems summoning even mid-powered spirits of other types.

I know that you can have as many watcher as charisma and low powered magicians can summon watchers without much trouble.

But is there an explicit line that says watchers are common? Or that they are among the most common spirits? I looked through my SR4 books (ok, some of them are older prints, so if there is an update, I won't have it), and I haven't found anything that states that watchers are commonplace.

The fact that they can be summoned so easily makes them commonplace.

Why bleed blood from your eyes for a magical advertisement for your store when you can snap your fingers every few hours and get another Watcher?