The Mages outpacing mundanes thread got me thinking about security systems in the game. We use several systems that are not directly from books, but seem to fit into the world, especially for countering mages and spirits. We use the existing security too. I've included a list of our homebrew security below. Does anyone have any other cool things they use? Not tweaks to the rules, but additional material that fits in the setting?

Magic Sensor and Locator- an array of glomoss patches is used with quick response light sensors to create a magic sensor. A miniature compact model can be used by drones to allow sensing of spirits and other astral figures as well as to detect sustained spells. A grid of these attached to a central computer system allows instant tracking and triangulation of a magic source or spell. (Note this assumes that glomoss responds with an intensity equal to the force and distance of the magic source, which may or may not be the case.)

Conducting Fog barrier- A small mister creates a fog of highly conducting microdroplets. Visual and ultra-sonic analyzers are used to assess anything moving through the fog and an individual must be broadcasting a security code or have previously entered one at a terminal that disarms the fog for a brief period. Sensor ratings for these systems vary from 4-6 and they include a Spatial Recognizer and audio enchancers. Depending upon the lighting conditions, ambient noise, and quality of the system, these sensors have a bonus of +2-6 to detect invisible individuals or concealed creatures because of the fog interacting with the individuals in unusual ways. If a threat is identified in the fog, a current is passed through the fog delivering 12S electrical damage to anyone inside.

One way Bulletproof, one way mirrors- Long rooms parallel to a hallways that has gates controlled from inside the room. Guards in the room can perform visual inspection and utilize scanners along the hallway. The guards are behind special polymer mirrors that allow them to see or fire into the hallway if necessary, but do not allow people in the hallway to see them (preventing spell casting and incurring a -6 blind fire penalty). The mirror acts as an Armor 8, Structure 9 barrier between themselves and the opposition. Additionally, the barrier is one way, providing only 1 armor in the opposite direction. Thus, guards can fire back easily if they need to. Guards communicate with people in the hallway using a speaker system and the doors are locked from the inside.

Dual Natured Pepper Spray-
Vector- Contact, Inhalation
Speed- 1 combat turn
Penetration- 0
Power: 5
Effect: Nausea, Disorientation
Made from dual natured chili peppers this spray can be used as normal pepper spray from a spray can or else dispersed in a cloud acting as an irritant causing watery eyes, a burning sensation wherever it touches and difficulty breathing. It also creates a corresponding effect on the astral plane that can affect spirits and astral mages. Spirits avoid exposure whenever possible. The spray settles on surfaces after being sprayed and contact with those surfaces can cause symptoms many hours after the initial dosing.
DNPS was designed as an anti-spirit counter measure, but has found many other uses. It is now tightly controlled because the difficulties it can raise for astral pursuit and astral forensics.

Bullet Analysis and Violence Suppression Systems- Originally designed as a security feature for subways to prevent terrorist attacks. These systems look like firesprinklers or standard camera set-ups, but actually contain sound and visual analysis programs. They track for the sounds of gun shots or explosions and quickly pinpoint the source of the violence and if the threat is considered real it disperses Narcojet or other "violence suppressants" in the area. Usually a physical command is necessary by a system overseer to authorize use of these systems suppressant systems, but some are automatic. They claim a high success rate and famously stopped a shooting at a New York airport the day before new year's, but have fallen out of favor due to their high false positive rate and the danger to children that their chemical response can pose.

Sage Security K-9 Team- A guard and dog team both of whom are using sage so that they can detect magic and are more alert in general. They may also be using other substances to increase alertness. Often they'll also be rocking out on Novacoke and/or Cram and have an injection of Nitro ready to go should they need it. Only particularly strong willed and driven individuals are trained in this task. They are trained how to bend their Will into a weapon against spirits, should they materialize, and their dogs have been trained to coordinate an attack with their masters. Typically individuals have a Will of 5 and training in a melee combat of 4 or 5 as well should they have to engage a physical opponent, and are fairly Charismatic. They utilize the Attack of Will spirit combat rule. These are only used at particularly large or high security locations, because of the cost of maintaining them.
Because of the side effects of the substances they rely on these teams work in rotations of one day on, one day off in most facilities. (Note, this ignores the supposed rarity of magical compounds and assumes that someone has developed a way to mass produce them)

Holo Hallway- This is a hallway filled with Holo Projectors. They can be used to create a hall of mirrors type effect that conceals an exit or traps, create illusionary guards to confuse intruders, etc. Even if hologram objects are identified, they can still conceal important features of a hallway, such as a pit or doorway. Often part of orientation for new employees involves learning how to avoid possible dangers of Holo Hallways.

Dual Natured Fire- This produced when awakened ivy is burned. The magical essence of the ivy is released in the astral plane in the same way as heat is in the physical plane. This can be use to burn astral figures if they are trapped near it or try to pass through dual natured fire. Generally creatures on the astral plane will move away from it and so it poses little risk except as a deterrent. No particularly useful benefit has yet been found.

Chemical Sensors- These are standards, but I don't think they are utilized enough. Essentially, give each employee a chemical coding in their I.D. so that fakes can be detected or someone not carrying any chemical code at all.

Awakened Detection Test- This utilizes a special set of flash cards along with a Deepweed smoke machine. A mundane will only be able to one set of words displayed on the cards, while an awakened character exposed to the Deepweed smoke will astrally perceive only be able to read the other set of words.

Deepweed Air Filters- Both a security measure and an employee loyalty program. These filters constantly run the buildings incoming air supply through a bed of awakened kelp, such that there is a constant low background dose of Deepweed in the air supply. A period of exposure of 10 minutes is required before the effects set-in. For most mundanes this just gives the building a feeling of a relaxing vibe and makes it seem more welcoming. For awakened characters, they begin to astrally perceive. A waiting period is required before being allowed into the highest security branches of buildings with these systems and guards are trained to look for unannounced magical users suddenly acting strangely. It is also not uncommon to couple this with additional countermeasures once a mage is identified. The mage suffers the normal -2 modifier after being in these facilities for 10 minutes.
Employees in such a facility may suffer withdraw if away from work for long periods of time and are often not informed about their exposure.

Interesting Indeed, Well Done... I Like them.

These are pretty neat ideas, and I *may* have to pilfer a few for my London game.

I've been thinking more recently about how police and corpsec forces would go about apprehending your average gang of sixth-world hooligans, especially when the hooligans sometimes include trolls and the cyber-augmented. Especially in 2072, with the recent improvements in nanoware, could it be possible to use some kind of fast-curing foam projector to bind up dangerous suspects quickly and (relatively) harmlessly? Or would I need to invent my own rules for that?

It is not a "nice" world out there. They shoot first (with gel rounds) or knock the frag out of them with stun batons and aks questions later.

Thanks for sharing your ideas. Not sure any of them will make an appearance in my game anytime soon, although I do use glomoss to detect magic use at high-security checkpoints for airports and the like.

The SR3 book Man & Machine had freeze foam, although it seemed to be used more for riot control than general policing of an area.

Duuuuuude... Can I have that one installed in my pad? I mean, it's awesome! Well, aside from the munchies problem.
I think it's in one of SR4 books too. Corebook or Arsenal, either way I saw it somewhere there.

I wonder how one-way bulletproof barrier work...

Mental Manipulation Prevention Pack
Features enough glowmoss to detect spells cast on the wearer. As soon as the glowmoss detects magic activity, a message is sent to the user's commlink: "MAGIC ACTIVITY DETECTED, POSSIBLE MENTAL MANIPULATION". This allows the wearer to roll a new spell resistance test (as specified in the rules when someone or points out that the victim isn't acting normally, he can roll a new spell resistance test).
The problem is that it'll activate as soon as magical activity is detected on the wearer, which means that false positives are possible. Behavior analysis software might be used to help limit those false positives.

I saw bulletproof glass for cars IRL that stops anything coming from the outside, but still lets bullets fired from the inside through.

While we're at security, where can I find turret setups? Something like motorized tripods that can turn MGs mounted on them into stationary, autonomously firing drones. It's in one of SR4 books, but I can't recall which one.
Nothing like a friendly yellow trashcan that suddenly opens a hidden hatch, unfolds a MG and starts blasting away at the intruders.

Some IRL example exist - they rely on the mechanic of the impact : it flexes the glass, which mean the impact compresses the glass on the impact side and stretches it on the other.

With a careful layering of material with different stretching/compressing resistance, the resulting glass is far more reistant from one side than the other.

here's an extract from wikipedia :

Advances in bullet-resistant glass have led to the invention of one-way bulletproof glass, such as used in some armored trucks. This glass resists incoming small arms fire striking the outside, but will allow those on the other side, such as guards inside the vehicle, to fire out through the glass at the exterior threat.

One-way bulletproof glass is usually made up of two layers, a brittle layer on the outside and a flexible one on the inside. A bullet fired from the outside hits the brittle layer first, shattering an area of it. This absorbs some of the bullet's kinetic energy, and spreads it on a larger area. When the slowed bullet hits the flexible layer, it is stopped. However, when a bullet is fired from the inside, it hits the flexible layer first. The bullet penetrates the flexible layer because its energy is focused on a smaller area; the brittle layer then shatters outward due to the flexing of the inner layer and does not significantly hinder the bullet's progress. One-way bullet-resistant glass is far from being perfected; there is evidence that suggests it can be achieved, but in most cases when shooting from the "safe" side, the intended target would have to be very close for the bullet to cause lethal wounds.

RW, Nuclear weapon storage sites use what is called "sticky foam" it to fill security doors. Under high pressure. Damaging the door releases the foam. Including having a guard shooting the door. Oh, and if it gets on you face you can smother, which is why the use is limited to areas where the risk of death for property damage is acceptable.

Echo Location Motion Sensors work wonders on a budget too for detecting invisible characters, adding an ultra or infra sonic active sonar ping will counter the magician who remembers to also cast a silence spell.

Also a lot of runners can be thwarted by deliberate use of low tech security like a Deadbolt lock requiring a physical key, a dual lock system requiring two keys is just obnoxious "What? We need to break in the two separate residences of the research leads to steal their keys to the door?"

Another thing that is cheap and very effective against invisibility is extra thick carpet, walk on it leave a footprint.
If you want to go a little more over the top in your decorating style get fiber optic carpet linked to pressure sensors so the carpet changes color when walked on, it's a cool effect during business hours and a telltale sign on a security camera.

Drones are a real problem for mages, the high threshold for affecting a complex technological device just makes them hard to deal with.

Keys don't work in SR without house rules because the developers have no idea of the differences between a high security lock and a $15 kwickset lock. So the pick gun can trivially defeat everything. Including the combination lock on a vault. ...

I like this alot and would like to assume that the force and distance can be calculated for triangulation. Pair this with FAB (does it work the same in SR4?) and you've finally got a decent defense against magic without needing spirits hanging around
I'm not sure the shock feature would work. Maybe if it grounded through the floor somehow. What is the path of the electricity?
would this work vs. mana illusions?
LOVE IT. but, what kind of irritation does it cause to astral beings? Possible asenseing modifiers? Can you sneeze on the astral?
the idea of a large tiled room full of showerheads makes me extremely uncomfortable no mater the purpose and I'm not even Jewish.

Only if you allow the Lockpick gun to work on a combination lock. I wouldn't. But that is just common sense.

Or locks that require multiple keys

Sure you have a lockpick gun, but there are 3 keyholes that must be turned at the same time

Indeed...

Only one reply works.

I love it, CanRay... Well Done.

My usual response to RAW Vs. Common Sense.

Amen. I had to suggest that quality for TM player, due to his tendency to react without thinking (although he's getting better; last year, during our Dresden Files game, he gave his True Name to a recently uncorked--and hungry--demon...)

On the security topic, I tend to go with the attitude that "Do what makes sense with the world" as opposed to "Creating challenges for the players", with the caveat that if the PCs keep blowing easy challenges out of the water, their rep will spread to the point where more appropriate challenges will start coming their way... like, say, a run on a high security MCT facility. But I'm not gonna put a rating 6 maglock with antitamper and biometrics on a street level target's apartment unless there's a damn good reason said street target is gonna be that paranoid.

As for autopickers, I'll let them work on key locks, but mechanical combination locks need a different specialized tool, which I'll probably homebrew at one point (something with touch sensors and increased sensitivity sensors, a mechanical arm or similar, and a specialized autosoft--it'll practically be a hyper-specialized mini-drone)

Stethoscope, found in any higher-end Medkit.

I think there's increased touch sensors that could feel the tumblers (By way of it's bonus) as well. I'm pretty sure there's Qualities and Adept Powers that do the same, but I'm too tired and cranky to look them up to see if they're figments of my imagination or actually in the book.

Well, yeah, if you wanted to do it yourself, you'd use a stethoscope and those nice 'wares that give bonuses to hearing and touch; but if you're a lazy runner that doesn't have the time to learn combination lock cracking, I was thinking of a tool that'd do it for you, just like auto-pickers for key locks.

They don't actually work on good combination locks. (UL group 1, 1R or FF-L-2740A) The dials and the gate don't interlock until you have completed dialing the combination or otherwise do not provide any usable clues to the person trying to manipulate them. A FF-L-2740A lock is designed to burn up and lock closed if you try an autodialer. They way a safe tech opens these without the combination is via a drill-point template and a drill. In SR there are other approaches that can be used.

You can use manipulation on the group 2 mechanical locks that you get on most "safes". It still takes quite a lot of skill and time to open them, but you can non-destructively do it if you are good.

But even some key type locks are impossible to pick with a pick gun. For example, the most obvious is the EVVA MCS, which uses magnetic fields in a sealed keyway, but a lot of the more common UL 437 locks are simply never going to be opened by a tool that isn't designed for that lock by an expert. And oddly enough it is hard to find those kind of tools.

I've never used them in Shadowrun, but in a D&D campaign I had locks that could only be opened by a key or pick of the right material. I can see the same thing being used in mechanical locks without magic. So magnetic slides that are drawn to the steel usually used to make lock pick tools, but not to the key made of non-magnetic materials. A key with an embedded magnet that in the correct orientation cause some of the tumblers to disengage. Or a key that has to be made of a non-conducting material for the lock to disengage with an added security feature of delivering a mild shock to anyone sticking something conducting in the key hole.
Edit: Nevermind, they apparently already do some of that with the EVVA MCS locks. Surprised I hadn't heard of them before.

I got a tool that'll work. *Pulls out Monofilament Chainsaw* Hold muh beer and watch this!

Heh... Yeah, nothing is safe when there's a Redneck (or a Marine, or hell, a Redneck Marine) around...

Heh. Or, worse, Redneck Marine Demolitions Specialists.

We've been over this. There is no such thing as a "Demolitions Expert" or "Demolitions Specialist", there are only Demolitions Enthusiasts

Yup. And they can be so very enthusiastic--and an inspiration to the rest of us... to run faster.

When did we meet?

Actually, TJ, you wouldn't happen to be acquainted with an Edward Becerra of Haxtun, Colorado? Retired Army gunsmith, geek, fun guy to bounce gaming ideas off of...?

Unfortunately not, I have Never heard of him, or of Haxtun, Colorado...

They are expensive and not sold in the US, Canada or Mexico last I knew.

Doesn't Glo Moss only detect things within a few centimeter radius though? I seem to remember (AFB) that a spirit has to pass very close by to activate the Glo Moss Wand in SM.

AFAIK, astral things have to actually pass *through* GloMoss. I'd have to check the book.

It works like the magic sense adept power (p 127 street magic). Magic sense can detect magic within force x 10 meters on the same plane (p. 178 street magic). Including active foci, spells, mana barriers (which means your own wards trigger it), dual-natured beings, and mana anomalies.

So it only detects spirits that pass through it because they're on another plane (until they materialize), but other magic it can see fine at a pretty good distance.

Just have a Watcher go through it so often that the security guards get annoyed with it constantly giving "False Signals".

"That's right, fella, play the Glowy/No Glowy game!" "WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!" "I hate those things." "So do I, but they have their uses."

Hmm. Well, that makes sense, but it means the fluff description of GloMoss is quite poorly written. Oh well. It also means I was mis-remembering: it should work fine on astral forms within range, no touch requirement. (It's dual-natured.) I was probably thinking of something else, perhaps a FAB variant.

Bit of a problem with this - I was under the impression that astral perception vs words only conveyed the intent/emotional response, and even then it was iffy and prone to multiple meanings?

ie: Flash card comes up
Mage: "I see....bacon?"
Guard: <Shoots Mage in face, then calls it in on his radio> "Ha! Got another one Jim! Bacon, my ass, it's just some wavy lines!"


-Tir.
The damn Glowy/not glowy game....sheesh...

The Flash Cards have plain text printed on them, which mundanes can read but the astrally perceiving can't. They'll probably get an emotional reading of fear and confusion. Or peace and tranquility considering deepweed is being applied. However there are different words written in astral paint that appear as colorful words. Of course this isn't really necessary. If you just want to determine if someones awakened, you could leave it blank and watch them try to guess what portion of the tax code you have printed out or have on your computer display. A Mundane will easily read, "The Annual Summary Report describes the closed meeting activity of the Commissioner's Art Advisory Panel for the most recent year. The report discusses the procedures of the Art Panel, provides a list of Panelists and summarizes the art items reviewed during this year by the Panel broken down by estate and charitable contribution. If you would like older Annual Summary Reports, please contact the IRS Freedom of Information Reading Room at 1111 . . .". The Awakened characters probably going to have trouble with that if they can't make out the text. Of course, it also means that you'll get a false positive from illiterate individuals. But better to shoot one hundred morons in the head then let a single mage go free.

As for the glowy/not glowy game, you can do that with pretty much any security system. Repeatedly set off the motion sensors around a facility in a single night by setting a squirrel free or get a node to send a thousand false alarms about being hacked and the spider will eventually stop logging in to check or run and tell everyone that there is a wolf coming to steal your sheep until no one will listen to you. It does work, but it's nothing new and it's hardly unique to any security system.

… Astral paint? I guess big enough cards could have simple shapes made of somehow-sustained FAB 'paint'. :/

Low-level security: false alert cluster might be missed since alarm might already be ignored.
Mid-level security: false alert cluster results in alarms turned off or ignored.
High-level security: false alert cluster seen as indication of impending attack; security status upgraded and intruder-bait operations undertaken.

Your mileage might vary

This makes trolling high-security facilities remarkably easy. Keep this shit up indefinitely and they'll be running around on paranoia fuel and spending tons of cash on security measures.

Just make sure you're launching your trolling attack from the extraterritorial property of someone they won't dare cross, or you're likely to get shot right in the god-damn face.

Time will feed upon your weaknesses
And soon you'll lose the will to care...

The reason they won't dare to cross them is why you don't want to do this. The owner the extraterritorial property will be annoyed at people doing things on his territory. And the Pyramid always needs more freshly beating hearts.

Sorry, I thought the "... With the tacit approval of the owner of that territory" was implied.

If you allow people to attack other people from your territory that is exactly the same as you attacking the same people from your territory. If you cannot control your territory other people are allowed to do it for you to protect themselves.

I'm pretty sure this is precisely exactly how things don't work in Shadowrun, which is exactly precisely why jumping across Megacorporate territory is such an effective tactic. It's a lot of bother to police the infinite, relatively not-harming-you little guys who aren't doing anything to you in your territory, so you put in the bare minimum effort to say you're doing everything you possibly can. It's quite another to tolerate the next Mega over deciding "well, if they're not going to police their own territory, we will!" and sending in a hit team. And by that I mean they absolutely will not tolerate that under any circumstances whatsoever. Corp Wars get started that way.

And nobody wants that. So you just make your own territory tougher and try to zap those pesky Shadowrunners when the cross into territory you do control, because God help you if you get any stray bullets on another megacorp's property, let alone intentional bullets.

This is where you get things that have real world analogies like hackers in China and terrorists in Afghanistan. One is in the "we're watching you..." stage, the other passed into the "you're lack of action amounts to endorsement". Both require chronic and/or dramatic pain to the target to hit that stage. As long as your characters spread around which other corp they hide behind it should work out. As long as the other corp doesn't decide to capture them and apply a penalty for disturbing relations (you've caused us headaches but we like that you caused them more so we'll let you off if you do this little job for us...).