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ShadowDragon8685
Okay, here's the situation. My group needed guns for reasons those who browse my threads out of boredom should know. Basically, they need to arm the Plastic Jungles' denizens. Rather than (as I had feared) coming up with some hare-brained scheme to home-build cheapass machine pistols, they decided to do the sane thing and contact their Friendly Local Ancients Captain. (One of the characters was an Ancient some forty years ago who parted ways with them amicably when they started to become more militant and he just wanted to smuggle goods and make money.)

They passed along word that they wanted to buy or, preferably, trade goods (produce from the Jungles; though they were ambiguous about the source, they gave enough clues to the Fixer who made the connection that the Ancients put two and two together,) for guns and ammunition.


Anyway, the Ancients captain offered them a good deal: 18,750 nuyen.gif for a pallet (50) AK-97s, 28,125 nuyen.gif for a pallet of 50 Colt M23 rifles, or 37,500 nuyen.gif for a pallet of 50 AK-98s. He also suggested that he'd be willing to trade 20 AK-97s for a pallet of produce, 15 Colt M23s, and 10 AK-98s.

Then he revealed the McGuffin in the fourth crate: An AK-147 that came to him 'by way of Bogota'. He explained that an AK-147 Nanofax was also coming to Seattle 'by way of Bogota', but was not coming to him: rather, it was being smuggled in by the Vory, along with some tagless feedstock. He explained that if they acquired the nanofax for him, he'd be willing to crank out a production run of guns and ammo - using regular, tagged feedstock - that he believed would be 'adequate for their application.' He also said he might see his way to knocking out a few for their own use - out of the untagged, clean, military feedstock - and would also owe them one.


I was expecting this to trip all of their 'too good to be true' senses, and that they'd just trade food for AK-97s. Silly me, of course they want to knock over a 600,000 nuyen.gif piece of hardware that's basically a printing press that prints guns and give it to the Ancients.

Arguably they'd be doing more good than harm in the world, too, since the Ancients will just sell them to random bangers, whereas the Vory were probably preparing for a gang war with the mob or something. Still, they're planning to rip off a Vory shipment in transit now. What kind of security would a syndicate have on something they're moving that would need roughly a tractor-trailer to move? Obviously the tractor-trailer and it's going to be customized, probably a security hacker and a mage with bound spirits.

Can you have a Possession spirit possess a mage and issue orders to that mage's spirits? Hrm...
Yerameyahu
Definitely not, for that last question. smile.gif
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 4 2012, 06:14 PM) *
Definitely not, for that last question. smile.gif


That's a shame. "Go directly to Denver and kill Ghostwalker" would be an awesome way to get rid of someone else's Spirits. It would also be a good way to kill him and his entire crew. Just remember to erase all astral traces of it and administer a large of Laés afterwards.
Yerameyahu
As if Possession weren't unhinged enough already. Anyway, AFAIK, mages have unique mystic connection to their bound/summoned spirits; possession wouldn't spoof that. Man: spirit hacking…
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 4 2012, 06:28 PM) *
As if Possession weren't unhinged enough already. Anyway, AFAIK, mages have unique mystic connection to their bound/summoned spirits; possession wouldn't spoof that. Man: spirit hacking…


And now I have a reason for the group's AI to be able to participate if the mages ever go a metaplanar quest or something. smile.gif
kzt
The obvious answer it to use a fully manually controlled truck, with no hackable control systems. A small security (mage plus shooters) team inside the cab, both the tractor and trailer warded. Have a large spirit inside each, plus a couple of minor ones outside to spot astral threats. Escort it with 4 warded armored SUVs full of guys with heavy weapons (again, vehicles modified to not be hackable) that proceed, trail and pace it, each with a large spirit. Overhead with a couple of flying drones that the 4 vehicles can use to overwatch everything.

Oh, and a totally decoy convoy that is all automated, with nobody on board and leaves first.
Yerameyahu
Can they do that? Smugglers usually are trying to be stealthy, not tanky.
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (kzt @ Mar 4 2012, 06:31 PM) *
The obvious answer it to use a fully manually controlled truck, with no hackable control systems. A small security (mage plus shooters) team inside the cab, both the tractor and trailer warded. Have a large spirit inside each, plus a couple of minor ones outside to spot astral threats. Escort it with 4 warded armored SUVs full of guys with heavy weapons (again, vehicles modified to not be hackable) that proceed, trail and pace it, each with a large spirit. Overhead with a couple of flying drones that the 4 vehicles can use to overwatch everything.

Oh, and a totally decoy convoy that is all automated, with nobody on board and leaves first.


I don't want it to be completely impossible. I figure the convoy has to go through Downtown, so the Vory need to balance their security versus being so obvious that Knight Errant pulls them over and has a look inside.

The AI should also probably have something to do, too, so I don't want to run completely manual everything. nyahnyah.gif Hrm...
Yerameyahu
Well, even if the vehicles aren't wireless, you'd expect some comms. Or, he can always hack *other* things: vehicles and things around the convoy. Matrix chars always have something to do.
Froggie
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Mar 4 2012, 06:39 PM) *
I don't want it to be completely impossible. I figure the convoy has to go through Downtown, so the Vory need to balance their security versus being so obvious that Knight Errant pulls them over and has a look inside.

The AI should also probably have something to do, too, so I don't want to run completely manual everything. nyahnyah.gif Hrm...


From the sounds of your previous threads your AI player has had little to do.

Well, do your runners know where the convoy is yet? Probably not, right? So run some surveillance on the Vory, let the AI go nuts with whatever he can hack into to find out the when/where and maybe the how.

If the vehicle has it's wireless disabled then just get the commlink of the driver who's plugged into it directly.
kzt
The Vory have guys who, just like the Mafia, make their living by hijacking trucks full of valuable stuff. They know all the obvious tricks, and most of the not so obvious ones, and will have them countered or bobby trapped. Unlike a street gang, these guys are professionals, they will have decoys, plans, backup plans and will react in a coordinated fashion with heavy firepower.

There are good reasons why smart runners don't casually choose to tangle with organized crime. They have both the ability and willingness to make examples out of people who choose to screw with them, and long memories.
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Froggie @ Mar 4 2012, 10:39 PM) *
From the sounds of your previous threads your AI player has had little to do.


Sadly true. Of course, it nicely worked out that my AI's player has had real-life troubles recently that distracted her, so that worked out well.

QUOTE
Well, do your runners know where the convoy is yet? Probably not, right? So run some surveillance on the Vory, let the AI go nuts with whatever he can hack into to find out the when/where and maybe the how.


The Ancients gave them a data chip* that they took off a dead Vor. Many Bothans Brothers died to bring them that chip, so they think it's the genuine deal, with details of the transfer, but they're also reasonably suspicious that it's booby-trapped to high heavens and none of their Matrix guys felt confident enough to try cracking it.

*It's actually a miniaturized device; basically a data vault with high System ratings and no signal so it can run some nasty IC, so if anyone who's not a Vor slots it, they get their ass flatlined and then it launches an Agent to sniff their system and squeal for recovery. Of course, whatever IC they loaded probably would have been anticipating a metahuman hacker, not an AI. Do Blackout/Black Hammer do anything to an AI?

QUOTE
If the vehicle has it's wireless disabled then just get the commlink of the driver who's plugged into it directly.


That's a thought. Cybercombat him into paste, then the AI (took the 10 point rigger thing) can jump through him into the truck. And since this is my trigger-happy AI, these are some guys you can unambigously flatline. This being a 'no witnesses' thing, I'm expecting it, followed by pawning the corpses off to Tanamous.


QUOTE (kzt @ Mar 4 2012, 11:05 PM) *
The Vory have guys who, just like the Mafia, make their living by hijacking trucks full of valuable stuff. They know all the obvious tricks, and most of the not so obvious ones, and will have them countered or bobby trapped. Unlike a street gang, these guys are professionals, they will have decoys, plans, backup plans and will react in a coordinated fashion with heavy firepower.


Yes, but I need to find a balance between 'these are the Vory, they're hard-ass motherfuckers' and 'this is literally impossible.' Hence why I'm thinking that taking it through Downtown should be a necessity at some point, and going through the heard of Knight Errant territory should necessitate that the security slacks off some. My players were already talking about bridges/tunnels/underpasses, so that's a thought...

QUOTE
There are good reasons why smart runners don't casually choose to tangle with organized crime. They have both the ability and willingness to make examples out of people who choose to screw with them, and long memories.


Which is why I expected them to say "Cross the Vory? Forget it. Let's talk trade - maybe you can do twenty-five AK97s for a pallet of fruit?"

They didn't. They didn't even try bringing out their little tiny neotenous Glamour with tailored pheremones. They just jumped straight on the "Let's fuck with the Vory and grab us a nanofax!" wagon.
kzt
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Mar 4 2012, 09:30 PM) *
Yes, but I need to find a balance between 'these are the Vory, they're hard-ass motherfuckers' and 'this is literally impossible.' Hence why I'm thinking that taking it through Downtown should be a necessity at some point, and going through the heard of Knight Errant territory should necessitate that the security slacks off some. My players were already talking about bridges/tunnels/underpasses, so that's a thought...

No you don't. If the players agree to do something really crazy dangerous and don't come up with an actual effective plan that would, in your opinion, really work, they don't deserve to win. They deserve to get beaten like a drum if they ignore the risks and expect the GM will bail them out.
QUOTE
They didn't. They didn't even try bringing out their little tiny neotenous Glamour with tailored pheremones. They just jumped straight on the "Let's fuck with the Vory and grab us a nanofax!" wagon.

Which is why I'd say it's time for them to learn why people don't casually screw with serious professional criminals and killers.
Malbur
QUOTE (kzt @ Mar 4 2012, 11:44 PM) *
No you don't. If the players agree to do something really crazy dangerous and don't come up with an actual effective plan that would, in your opinion, really work, they don't deserve to win. They deserve to get beaten like a drum if they ignore the risks and expect the GM will bail them out.

Which is why I'd say it's time for them to learn why people don't casually screw with serious professional criminals and killers.


That's the thing about Shadowrun, you have to play a lot smarter than other RPGs (*cough* D&D *cough*). The world that it exists in isn't one where the adventurers are the pinnacle of what people can be, its a world where the runners are those little people that bigger people use as pawns in chess. Sometimes, pawns get taken, sometimes runners die. If they don't know that yet, they need to learn that this isn't one of those "we will always win!" games.

Shadowrun is a game I love because there is that element of "if I screw up bad, I don't make it out" that D&D never had in my experience. They made a bad choice to pick that fight, so even if they initially win, they likely will lose (As in the Vory can track them down later). Either they get killed, or they get chased out of town with only the clothes on their backs and a couple certified credsticks and need to get somewhere where perhaps the Vory don't have as much of a reach... Hong Kong perhaps?
The Jake
I second the subtle idea. Vory are likely to use trucks with forged IDs, paintjobs to look like a Stuffer Shack food fan carrying goods, but filled up with bad guys and probably two other cars - one as a a forward scout and another to follow up the rear to tag anyone eying off the truck. Rolling Ares Citymasters for this one item doesn't make sense for numerous reasons.

Don't forget that Vory are highly distrustful of magic and thus loath to use it without a damn good reason or unless they've got a good tight grip on the mage in question. A single spirit under orders to obey the Vory lead (who is probably sitting in the vanguard vehicle) is probably the most magic they are likely to use in a hurry. They'd offset this with lots of goods in the trucks and cars, armed to the teeth and probably at least one aerial drone with chameleon coating/ECM & ECCM, following the truck at all times and outfitted for bear.

Finally, whether or not they use decoys would depend on its relative value to the Vory vs the Ancients. If the Vory can get these things easily they are far less likely to use a decoy because they don't care as much as the Ancients. The value of this item is not necessarily equal to all parties. This goes double if they are not anticipating trouble.

- J.
kzt
Good point. If it's trivial for them to steal another one then they won't protect it heavily. It they actually PAID 600K for it they are going to have a rather different approach to how they handle it. And will be rather annoyed at anyone who takes it. 600K is half of what a large jet costs in SR, so consider how a drug lord would likely react if you stole a $20 million load from him tomorrow.
Manunancy
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Mar 5 2012, 05:30 AM) *
Yes, but I need to find a balance between 'these are the Vory, they're hard-ass motherfuckers' and 'this is literally impossible.' Hence why I'm thinking that taking it through Downtown should be a necessity at some point, and going through the heard of Knight Errant territory should necessitate that the security slacks off some. My players were already talking about bridges/tunnels/underpasses, so that's a thought...


Ther's nothing that forces the whole bunch of Vorys to move through Downtown - the escort's size can be adjested to the area, with part of it moving through a less nosy area and meet up the truck once it's out of Downtown again. Depending on the area they may have a local gang acting as extra muscle.

But in keeping of the Vory's tone, whatver escort they have is likely to pack some heavy firepower.

a note about hacking the truck thought the driver's comlink : if the driver is using is 'link in AR mode and has a wire link to the vehicle (to be able to rig it if things gets dicey), there will be no way to frag him and take control - cybercombat doesn't work if the target isn't in VR. Which still give the hacker a very important role : neutralize the Vory's communications and drones, but will prevent 'let's frag and steal through the matrix withotu ever exposing our meat hides'
kzt
Would an experienced PLAYER rigger have wireless enabled on the comlink they used to rig a critical vehicle? None that I know, they would run it on cables. NPC riggers who steal trucks for a living probably have some ideas about "how not to get hacked" that will work pretty well and should be played that way.
Seriously Mike
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 5 2012, 12:38 AM) *
Can they do that? Smugglers usually are trying to be stealthy, not tanky.

They're Russian. I believe their methods are "roll heavily armed and have bribes handy."
If you want the AI to do something, have him hack... the traffic management system. It will be hard, of course, but if you bury the rig at the end of a traffic jam, quickly hijack the nanofax (how large is it again?) and wheel it out, there's a chance. There's an even bigger chance if you get the truck to stop right in front or right behind an overpass and hit it from above.
Blade
The best security is secrecy. If nobody knows when and where the transport will go, they don't need much more. If there's a risk of a leak, they might try to spreak false information and have different convoys, with only one having the gear.

If secrecy is not an option, I'm pretty sure they can get some help from Knight Errant. Corruption goes a long way and they'd rather have the Vory have the guns than the Ancients anyway. In that case, they can plan an itinerary that goes through secure areas, and might even be able to block off some streets for a few minutes (provided they don't do it during rush hour).

If they expect a move from the Ancients, they can get some rival gangs to hit the Ancients' territories at the same time.
Shortstraw
Instead of using a decoy use the second convoy to transmit the real feedstock and instead of feedstock with the nanofax have a high rating explosive in feedstock shaped rods that way even if they take it if they don't find the hook as well then both the vory and the ancients will be pissed biggrin.gif
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (kzt @ Mar 4 2012, 11:44 PM) *
No you don't. If the players agree to do something really crazy dangerous and don't come up with an actual effective plan that would, in your opinion, really work, they don't deserve to win. They deserve to get beaten like a drum if they ignore the risks and expect the GM will bail them out.


If you actually played the world of Shadowrun realistically, then Shadowrunners wouldn't be able to exist because of all the security and wi-fi connectivity in the setting.

Shadowrun is an RPG first and foremost. That means it exists to be fun. Throwing an impossible mission at my players isn't fun.


QUOTE (The Jake @ Mar 5 2012, 01:37 AM) *
I second the subtle idea. Vory are likely to use trucks with forged IDs, paintjobs to look like a Stuffer Shack food fan carrying goods, but filled up with bad guys and probably two other cars - one as a a forward scout and another to follow up the rear to tag anyone eying off the truck. Rolling Ares Citymasters for this one item doesn't make sense for numerous reasons.

Don't forget that Vory are highly distrustful of magic and thus loath to use it without a damn good reason or unless they've got a good tight grip on the mage in question. A single spirit under orders to obey the Vory lead (who is probably sitting in the vanguard vehicle) is probably the most magic they are likely to use in a hurry. They'd offset this with lots of goons in the trucks and cars, armed to the teeth and probably at least one aerial drone with chameleon coating/ECM & ECCM, following the truck at all times and outfitted for bear.

Finally, whether or not they use decoys would depend on its relative value to the Vory vs the Ancients. If the Vory can get these things easily they are far less likely to use a decoy because they don't care as much as the Ancients. The value of this item is not necessarily equal to all parties. This goes double if they are not anticipating trouble.


Oooh, this is good. The Vory don't like magic? My players really like magic. They can hit them at the intersection of "Our strengths" and "your weaknesses" with that. (They could probably even talk one of the Jungle's Shamans into providing some extra spiritual support for this one, because he really wants to arm his people.)

The Vory don't think the Ancients are likely to make a move because they still think their data is secure. The Ancients went to a lot of trouble to make the theft of the datavault look like a random attack by a random fly-by-night go-gang on some schmucks using their roads; they took the datavault from the man who was carrying it and put in a physical duplicate before they shot him straight through the datajack (from the other side of the head.) They didn't wear (their) colors, used disposable bikes (which are now somewhere in Hong Kong,) and took their dead, of course. They probably won't do anything crazy like changing the shipping schedule (this is not the kind of thing you want to leave sitting in a warehouse on the docks,) and there might be a surprise or two (like a 'Stuffer Shack' panel van full of goons with guns,) but for the most part they're going to have genuine, and mostly-complete data.
Chinane
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Mar 5 2012, 01:53 PM) *
If you actually played the world of Shadowrun realistically, then Shadowrunners wouldn't be able to exist because of all the security and wi-fi connectivity in the setting.

Shadowrun is an RPG first and foremost. That means it exists to be fun. Throwing an impossible mission at my players isn't fun.


But, but...you're NOT throwing that mission on your players, you gave them some options and they specifically picked the deadliest.
That's something else entirely than throwing the worst the system offers at them without giving them any chance to avoid it.
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Shortstraw @ Mar 5 2012, 06:45 AM) *
Instead of using a decoy use the second convoy to transmit the real feedstock and instead of feedstock with the nanofax have a high rating explosive in feedstock shaped rods that way even if they take it if they don't find the hook as well then both the vory and the ancients will be pissed biggrin.gif


While that's an idea, the Ancients have already said that if they can't get both, they care most about the nanofax, less about the feedstock. Getting more feedstock is easy, even getting clean feedstock isn't so difficult you normally have to do a run on the Vory. They'll still be pleased enough to throw the players at least some guns, and getting a pile of high-grade explosives as part of the deal wouldn't hurt. smile.gif
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Chinane @ Mar 5 2012, 07:56 AM) *
But, but...you're NOT throwing that mission on your players, you gave them some options and they specifically picked the deadliest.
That's something else entirely than throwing the worst the system offers at them without giving them any chance to avoid it.


Even so, I'm not going to throw a ridiculously deadly chestnut at them on the fifth session of our campaign. Sure, it's not gonna be easy, but it should be doable.
Kolinho
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Mar 5 2012, 12:58 PM) *
Even so, I'm not going to throw a ridiculously deadly chestnut at them on the fifth session of our campaign. Sure, it's not gonna be easy, but it should be doable.


As every run should be imo. None easy, all possible. That said I can see Chinane's point, somewhere along the line you need to punish the runners for wandering into deep water without due concern, or the game loses its edge. Not that it needs a wipe, but in this kind of heavy hitting scenario I wouldn't have thought the team losing one of their buddies would be ridiculously unfair.

BTW ShadowDragon, do your players not have the internet? rotate.gif

Jus' wondering...
ShadowDragon8685
They do, but though I've pointed them at Dumpshock as a resource in the past, they don't seem to come here. Which is just as well, even though I've told them that if they read my threads I'll become cross.
Kolinho
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Mar 5 2012, 01:10 PM) *
They do, but though I've pointed them at Dumpshock as a resource in the past, they don't seem to come here. Which is just as well, even though I've told them that if they read my threads I'll become cross.


I worry about it myself, that's all.

'Here's my super-dooper evil double cross, they'll never see THIS coming! Mwahahahaha!

..

'You what now?'
kzt
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Mar 5 2012, 05:58 AM) *
Even so, I'm not going to throw a ridiculously deadly chestnut at them on the fifth session of our campaign. Sure, it's not gonna be easy, but it should be doable.

They chose the path with both eyes open and after being warned.

It doesn't mean that it is impossible, but it should mean that any plan that seems obvious, would be expected by anyone who hijacks trucks professionally or relies on the bad guys being stupid or asleep won't work out well for the players.
Murrdox
This run sounds like a lot of fun. Please post how it goes no matter what you end up doing.

A few thoughts based on what everyone's said:

- Where is the shipment coming from? Bogota? Then I'd think it's likely that the shipment is arriving either by boat or by air, and then transported on the ground in Seattle to its destination. Plan the route that the shipment will take and its destination, and then let your players figure out where they want to boost it. Who knows, they may even decide to attack whatever cargo ship is carrying it before it arrives in Seattle. My players did this once, it was great. They sank a full blown cargo ship.

- I second the idea of stealth here. The Vory aren't going to have an armed to the teeth convoy going through downtown Seattle, ESPECIALLY one that it advertising itself with several high strength spirits watching over the vehicles. It would stand out to ANYONE watching in Astral. Way too high profile for the Vory.

- The Vory may not even bring this in THEMSELVES. I agree with the person who said BRIBES. That's what I think of when I think of the Vory. They may be paying bribes to make the shipment appear legitimate, with maybe no more security than usual except a few extra security goons to make sure the delivery happens. This means if the shipment gets hijacked, it could be whoever the Vory bribed that respond right away, not the Vory themselves. Knight Errant, or Lone Star, or another Megacorp they bribed to ship this in for them. Maybe Aztlan?

- I'd run it as Warded, and guarded by a few very well-equipped goons, but goons who don't outwardly LOOK like goons. The shipment itself should have all kinds of tracking on it so the Vory can keep track of it and find it in a hurry if one or more of the people they bribed double-cross them on the delivery. THAT is when the Vory will pull out the big guns.
TwoDee
QUOTE (Kolinho @ Mar 5 2012, 05:06 AM) *
As every run should be imo. None easy, all possible. That said I can see Chinane's point, somewhere along the line you need to punish the runners for wandering into deep water without due concern, or the game loses its edge. Not that it needs a wipe, but in this kind of heavy hitting scenario I wouldn't have thought the team losing one of their buddies would be ridiculously unfair.


My suggestion:

Canray and Crew wrote Safehouses for runs just like this one.
Shortstraw
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Mar 5 2012, 10:56 PM) *
While that's an idea, the Ancients have already said that if they can't get both, they care most about the nanofax, less about the feedstock. Getting more feedstock is easy, even getting clean feedstock isn't so difficult you normally have to do a run on the Vory. They'll still be pleased enough to throw the players at least some guns, and getting a pile of high-grade explosives as part of the deal wouldn't hurt. smile.gif


My point was the ancients try to use what they think is feedstock and it blows up in their faces - literally.
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Shortstraw @ Mar 6 2012, 08:02 AM) *
My point was the ancients try to use what they think is feedstock and it blows up in their faces - literally.


Ahhh, yes. That's got two problems with it.

1: That's on them, not the 'runners, for not checking the feedstock first.
2: They're not idiots, they'll check the feedstock first. smile.gif



[e]Hrm... What would be the Vory's fallback plan? IE, the plan they'll execute if things go south: I'm torn between 'drive the truck to a safehouse and wait for reinforcements' and 'drop the load where it is and remote-detonate it when it's surrounded by the people who made you drop it.'
Seriously Mike
With a $600k gun printer? Floor it and run somewhere safe. Then find and murderize all those jackasses who tried to jump you.
Blade
With the state of encryption and spoofing risks, attaching a remote-detonation device on something can be risky. I guess it could work if the vehicle interior is wireless-proof. In that case, you can imagine a system where the load will explode as soon as it's not removed properly from the vehicle. But you don't need a remote detonation system for this.
Such an explosive fallback plan fits the Vory quite well.

Either that or, if they can't spare the load, I'd go with bribes again: "to all patrol cars in the area, there's a big fat paycheck for the first to bring us back a little something...".
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Seriously Mike @ Mar 6 2012, 09:03 AM) *
With a $600k gun printer? Floor it and run somewhere safe. Then find and murderize all those jackasses who tried to jump you.


That's what I'm thinking. They're not planning to monetize the nanofax, they're arming for war. Their plan is to start impressing Tacoma street gangs and handing out AKA-147s and start taking more bites out of the Tacoma waterfront from the Mafia and the Yaks, or expand into Puyallup. (This is why arguably the players would potentially be doing more good than harm in the world if they give the Nanofax to the Ancients; they're just going to monetize the damn thing.)

Still, war materiel or not, I can't help but wonder if they'd rather blow it sky-high than risk it falling into the hands of someone else... Of course, that has to be weighed against the risks that another party which likewise would sooner see it destroyed than in the Vory's hands would be bold enough to spoof the detonation code and blow it to hell. That would be embarrassing, so I think I'm going to go with a big 'no' on the explosive countermeasures. Maybe fitting the trailer with some kind of poison gas trap wouldn't be amiss, though...


QUOTE (Blade @ Mar 6 2012, 09:38 AM) *
Such an explosive fallback plan fits the Vory quite well.


It does, the brutal, ruthless bastards. I'm half-convinced that the Vory exist to make the Mafia look like the good guys by way of comparison, and make Yaks look 'well, they're all right'.

QUOTE
Either that or, if they can't spare the load, I'd go with bribes again: "to all patrol cars in the area, there's a big fat paycheck for the first to bring us back a little something...".


They might be desperate enough to try it, but KE is new in Seattle and taking a very dim view of shenanigans like that. (After all, that's one of the reasons the Star got kicked out after all these years.)
Blade
If I were the GM, it'd end with a heavy assault helicopter (or more) arriving just above whoever has the nanofax and broadcast something like: "Please surrender immediately. You're in posession of property stolen from [corporation name]. Due to the hazardous nature of the equipement we are authorized to open fire if necessary."
Warlordtheft
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Mar 6 2012, 09:55 AM) *
That's what I'm thinking. They're not planning to monetize the nanofax, they're arming for war. Their plan is to start impressing Tacoma street gangs and handing out AKA-147s and start taking more bites out of the Tacoma waterfront from the Mafia and the Yaks, or expand into Puyallup. (This is why arguably the players would potentially be doing more good than harm in the world if they give the Nanofax to the Ancients; they're just going to monetize the damn thing.)

They might be desperate enough to try it, but KE is new in Seattle and taking a very dim view of shenanigans like that. (After all, that's one of the reasons the Star got kicked out after all these years.)


Other possibility, the Vory is planning to help arm the Ork underground in exchange for "safe and secure" facilities where no one is watching. Brackhaven is really making the Ork underground worried. THe vory arming them and the Skraa (IIRC that is the main Ork underground Gang), could lead to the ANcients losing money cause they would be the most likely alternative to the vory. ANd do the orks want to be at the mercy of some dandelion eaters? Probably not.

Whatever you do, have fun, and if the PC's don't do this job right make sure the PC's have a rough life ahead of them.
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Blade @ Mar 6 2012, 10:09 AM) *
If I were the GM, it'd end with a heavy assault helicopter (or more) arriving just above whoever has the nanofax and broadcast something like: "Please surrender immediately. You're in posession of property stolen from [corporation name]. Due to the hazardous nature of the equipement we are authorized to open fire if necessary."


Not only would that not work (the mage would call up a Possession spirit to possess the chopper's pilot and compel him to land the helicoptor wherever they wanted/make the now-uncontrolled helicoptor crash because the person rigging it can no longer control it,) but that would be mean-spirited.

QUOTE (Warlordtheft @ Mar 6 2012, 10:30 AM) *
Other possibility, the Vory is planning to help arm the Ork underground in exchange for "safe and secure" facilities where no one is watching. Brackhaven is really making the Ork underground worried. THe vory arming them and the Skraa (IIRC that is the main Ork underground Gang), could lead to the ANcients losing money cause they would be the most likely alternative to the vory. And do the orks want to be at the mercy of some dandelion eaters? Probably not.


If it were any other cartel, maybe, but the Orc Underground are decidedly not-Russian, and the Vory wouldn't want to deal with not-Russians with their own large and robust culture like that if they could avoid it. More likely they might think about moving into the Underground after Brackhaven sends in the goon squads to murder the women and children.


QUOTE
Whatever you do, have fun, and if the PC's don't do this job right make sure the PC's have a rough life ahead of them.


Yeah, if they flub this one, it's going to be time to (a) bring in the backup characters while the mains are all out of town, or (b) shift the campaign to another metroplex. smile.gif
ZeroPoint
Here's what i would do.

Blend stealth with firepower. If it has to go through town, you just do the tractor trailer full of dudes and a lead and trailing car with overhead stealth drone.

With mapsofts and traffic apps linking the vehicles, you can also co-ordinate some of the aforementioned Citymasters full of goons with heavy weapons that are on parallels streets or hanging back a ways. If trouble is encountered, they can make it on scene within 30 seconds to a minute.

If the forces in the truck and cars are ready for delaying/defense tactics rather than firepower, you can hold off any would be attackers until heavy hitters arrive.

Priority for truck and cars if attacked may be scattering gas/smoke grenades, flashbangs/flashpacks. Taking cover and delaying actions until players make their moves. maybe a drone rack on the truck and drop a few amped up dobermans that run out to keep the runners busy and attention off the convoy. In other words they let themselves be pinned in and waste time until the heavy hitters hit the would be attackers from the rear.

What this does is create a tiered challenge for the players. They can try to hit the main convoy and get out within that response window. they can try to do it without alerting the response team. If they do the first, they have to deal with pursuit from response team who probably has the convoy surrounded. If they do the second its gonna be ripping tough.

They can also just opt to hit it hard. If this is the case, you get the benefit of being able to have response team arrive at whatever you deem to be an appropriate time. If they are cleaning the convoy to quickly, they get there faster. If they are having a tough time of it, you can delay them.

And there's a lot your AI can do in this environment without hacking the convoy directly, as others have said. Imagine the convoy driving down the road then all the parked cars along the side of the street start up at the same time and drive into traffic. changing traffic lights to create denser or traffic areas. you can use this just to delay the convoy to move into position if you don't know exactly what their route will be.

NiL_FisK_Urd
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Mar 6 2012, 04:44 PM) *
Not only would that not work (the mage would call up a Possession spirit to possess the chopper's pilot and compel him to land the helicoptor wherever they wanted/make the now-uncontrolled helicoptor crash because the person rigging it can no longer control it,) but that would be mean-spirited.

Just quicken a Force 6+ Spirit Zapper spell on the rigger cocoon.
The Jake
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Mar 5 2012, 12:53 PM) *
Oooh, this is good. The Vory don't like magic? My players really like magic. They can hit them at the intersection of "Our strengths" and "your weaknesses" with that. (They could probably even talk one of the Jungle's Shamans into providing some extra spiritual support for this one, because he really wants to arm his people.)


This is what we just did in our campaign. We got money from the Koshari and Triads to basically remove the Vory from Denver.

We had a lot of intel on Vory movements in the city, so we knew a fair bit about their operations and who their key players was (one player a former employee with them as an Enemy, Wanted and a few other merits, flaws, related skills). He also rolled well and spent Edge to cough up the intel.

With a lot of cash from the Koshari and Triads, we hired a professional merc (tier 1) unit to stage a hit against their primary smuggling hub (basically human trafficking, with security from Tamanous). The purpose of this hit was to stage a serious business disruption but more importantly, get them to a war council meeting.Through our other contacts, we knew where they were going to hold the meet. So we just had scouts there and call us in when they started gathering.

They had snipers, drones and all sorts of stuff there. They weren't ready for an army of Force 6+ spirits to take out their snipers, 35+ gangers (all surviving members of the Three Kings with an axe to grind against the Vory) fully kitted with Ares Alphas and a lot of grenades, 12 of which were protected with Immunity to Normal Weapons via Endowment from an Invoked spirit. After the snipers were down, building shelled with explosives and munitions for a good ten minutes, we sent in the Endowed gangers to clear out the rest.... along with the Force 10 free spirit (see my other thread) which possessed my character to go in and do the cleanup of anything remaining. All members were wearing purple jumpsuits and clown masks during the hit and all equipment was taken and disposed off afterwards.

Our final coup de grace was to send a message to the media outlets very publicly announcing that our fictitious entity ("Mr Heisenberg" .. yeah yeah we were strapped for a name at the time) was taking credit for the kills and offering a 10,000 nuyen bounty on any Vory still surviving within Denver. So that way, anyone with an outstanding debt that can't pay it, anyone with a daughter hooking for the Vory, or anyone just generally doesn't like them, will rat out any street level thugs still collecting that weren't at the meet.

We know there will be blowback for this... but it was glorious.

- J.
kzt
Umm, and the multiple militaries and heavily armed police didn't notice that you were SHELLING THEM for 10 minutes? Whatever.....
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (The Jake @ Mar 6 2012, 11:08 PM) *
This is what we just did in our campaign. We got money from the Koshari and Triads to basically remove the Vory from Denver.

.....

We know there will be blowback for this... but it was glorious.


You basically wiped out the Vory in Denver... Wow.

You had Ghostwalker's sanction for this, I trust? He might've wanted the Russians gone from his territory, so he might keep them from coming back.
The Jake
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Mar 7 2012, 04:30 AM) *
You basically wiped out the Vory in Denver... Wow.

You had Ghostwalker's sanction for this, I trust? He might've wanted the Russians gone from his territory, so he might keep them from coming back.


He wasn't looking. nyahnyah.gif

Seriously though, GW has been very distracted lately.

QUOTE (kzt @ Mar 7 2012, 04:28 AM) *
Umm, and the multiple militaries and heavily armed police didn't notice that you were SHELLING THEM for 10 minutes? Whatever.....



OH Thanks, I forgot that part. Basically we knew that would be an issue, so we pulled a Die Hard 4 to tie them up. I called in a bomb threat to a hospital but didn't specify which one. Cops spent hours searching every single hospital in the city. We'd caused one major explosion in-game recently that the threat couldn't be immediately discarded as a hoax. Objective was only to delay the cops anyway.

Meet took place in the slums of Denver (equivalent of the Barrens, forget the exact name). I was expecting it would have been a higher quality neighborhood personally, that would have changed our MO and really thrown a spanner into the works...

- J.
Manunancy
Even if teh Vory don't like magic and it makes a weak link in their defense, if someone goes magicrun on them, it's a safe they bet they're going to have someone on their call list who can deal with that sort of crap - that's one advantage of being part of organizedcrime : you can afford various legit and semie-legit services.

Now as far as securing the cargo, the explosive option is a likely possibility. Couple motion sensors ('is the truck moving' and pressure sensors 'is the cargo moving'). If the pressure gets lifted whithout the truck moving, Boom. This prevents it from exploding if a bump on the road lifts it up enough to disrupt the pressure sensor.
Shortstraw
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Mar 7 2012, 01:44 AM) *
Not only would that not work (the mage would call up a Possession spirit to possess the chopper's pilot and compel him to land the helicoptor wherever they wanted/make the now-uncontrolled helicoptor crash because the person rigging it can no longer control it,) but that would be mean-spirited.


Well you could have the helicopter as a prepared vessel inhabited by a great form guardian spirit.......
The Jake
QUOTE (Manunancy @ Mar 7 2012, 06:49 AM) *
Even if teh Vory don't like magic and it makes a weak link in their defense, if someone goes magicrun on them, it's a safe they bet they're going to have someone on their call list who can deal with that sort of crap - that's one advantage of being part of organizedcrime : you can afford various legit and semie-legit services.

Now as far as securing the cargo, the explosive option is a likely possibility. Couple motion sensors ('is the truck moving' and pressure sensors 'is the cargo moving'). If the pressure gets lifted whithout the truck moving, Boom. This prevents it from exploding if a bump on the road lifts it up enough to disrupt the pressure sensor.


That's why I said 'bound spirit' in my original post. You can't say 'they have access to a mage' because you then run into the 'everyone has a mage' dilemma. Spirits can be summoned and command turned over to another so long as they always maintain LOS of that individual (bearing in mind that mundanes do not have a mindlink to the spirit). That is quite feasible.

Also I should add, we've gone full magic on them only once thus far. We left no telltale signs or overt use of powers that our forensic cleanup and my Flexible Signature didn't take care of. While a truly cunning person will assume the use of magic based on how thorough the job is, the evidence isn't there. That said, we fully accept this is probably the last time we will get away with such shenanigans, let alone survive. Our plan is to keep mixing up our MO, never once using the same tactic so we can be sure that it's impossible for our enemies to ever know for sure what tricks we have up our sleeves.

- J.
The Jake
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Mar 6 2012, 02:55 PM) *
Still, war materiel or not, I can't help but wonder if they'd rather blow it sky-high than risk it falling into the hands of someone else... Of course, that has to be weighed against the risks that another party which likewise would sooner see it destroyed than in the Vory's hands would be bold enough to spoof the detonation code and blow it to hell. That would be embarrassing, so I think I'm going to go with a big 'no' on the explosive countermeasures. Maybe fitting the trailer with some kind of poison gas trap wouldn't be amiss, though...


That is a fair point too. Who is to say that the Vory boobytrapped the case and didn't tell anyone precisely for this reason?

That way, even if the players go manage to retrieve it, they are dead unless they think to search the case for traps (or hand it over to the Ancients in its "as is" state).

- J.
AppliedCheese
The vory will not be rolling an up armored convoy through down town. That's the sort of thing corps, who are allowed to legally own the stuff, do. Likely it will be fairly normal looking, supplemented with bribes to make sure everything is smooth.

Security will be discrete, as someone said, some very professional killers with some drone and astral support. Maybe some guys in the truck, but more likely, guys watching the truck from OPs or a stalk vehicle or two. Hell, if its real real important, maybe another runner team escorting the shipment. The point being while there will be a brief exchange of fire during the hijacking, the real threat is the guys you don't see. Shortly after the players go all red direct on the truck and the driver and shotgun flop out full of hole, your players are being hit from other positions, their images and astral signatures being recorded.

A hack, favor, or front company to make sure a perfectly legal drone is flying in appropriate airspace with top down feed. Satellite link only of course, no sense letting a hacker get in to it.

A simple low grade mage in astral to let them know when the weirdness is up "OMG! someone just summoned a huge spirit of man in great form 500 meters away!", tied in back at the drone feed. Everyone's AR gets a mage highlight on the associated individual.

Point being - if your players try to bull rush this one, they should die handily. Bring out mega-magic, die handily as mages are ID'd and killed. Fly drones into restricted airspace? Lose the drones. Basically, for something like this, make them actually creatively plan it instead of relying on "we'll overpower them with runner awesome, dice pools, and access to more magic than most militaries!"
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