Can anyone give me a book/page were this is detailed? the only thing i have been able to find is the negative quality Geas stuff that works in general, not a cost reducing one.

Street Magic, p. 31 ("Tweaking the Rules" sidebar).

Danke

The plural is Geasa.

Thanks much Umaro, that was bugging me

That's what I get for not learning Latin.

Gaelic, actually.

That's what I get for not learning any language except English.

At 0:49 seconds.

Actually, I can speak Bad English, or, as I've been informed it's named, "American".

Used to do tech support for a New York cable TV/Internet company. There's still a bounty on my head there, to my understanding.

I thought you spoke Canadian?

That's the 'English'...

Eh?

In 'English' (Canadian) and 'Bad English' (American)

I guess my Canadian English joke was missed, eh?

Forgive me - I've a headache, and Canadian English is near-default for me, so...

English is what the English speak, sir.
American is what the Americans speak, dude.
Canadian is what the Canadians speak, eh.
Australian is what the Aussies speak, mate.

It is simple good fortune that those four sound so similar that they can communicate with each other.

I think that's inferring a bit much...

It's like stargate - everyone speaks English.

"We shall speak the Intergalactic Language... English."

For the fact that it's all CALLED English, the bloody English are definitely hardest to understand...

I sometimes need subtitles for british movies. Seriously.

That's because you're not English

But yeah, take their rhyming slang for instance...

You shouldn't forget the scottish, irish, welsh, etc though!

Newfie.

Yeah, but those aren't english, and what they speak isn't english either.

And I actually AM (almost) English. All that's missing is the passport. (And the socialisation.)

(Inter) National Language?

XKCD National Language

So back to the Geas thing, Just to make sure im getting this right, it still counts as a Negative quality, except now it restricts less, and gives a positive benefit? that doesnt make much sense.

It is not a Quality for an Adept, Negative or Positive.
It is an optional rule. Adept Geasa work differently from Magician Geasa...
As an adept, you accept a limitation on your abilities to gain more power (Cheaper pp Cost).

Adept geasa are like magic geasa used to be: actually positive options. You get more for a stupid negligable disadvantage. In SR3 you could undo magic loss with geasa. They were NOT a negative quality.

Depends on the geas, I had a no armour geas and that certainly made things interesting.

Which just proves that you have to shoot yourself in the foot to make it count.

I tend to take stupid geasa, because why would anyone take a really limiting one?

Because otherwise great dragons possessed by force 50 blood spirits keep showing up for some reason?

Because it can be more interesting to roleplay a character with a weakness than trying to get the most bang-per-BP?

That too.

To what end?



If I want to roleplay a character like that, then I can do that without any mechanical aspects. A character's mechanical power says nothing at all about my ability to roleplay him, nor about my inclination to or fun at doing so.

But I see it like this: Geasa are NOT a metagame weakness. They are voluntary limitations imposed upon the character by himself. WHY would anyone take a crippling limitation? Why not just take something like a condition to always wear pink underpants?

The idea is that the player gets to pick the geas the character didn't necessarily get the choice.

Well, I disagree with that assessment. Whatever... each group can decide that for themselves.

Well, becasue it is thematic? Besides, If you are taking a Geas that has no limitations/restrictions, it is not a Geas. It's as Simple as that.
If your GM is letting you get away with that, he is doing you a disservice.

And your example of the above Geas (Pink Underpants) is not a limitation. Claiming it is is disengenuous. If you can't play the limitations of a Geas (and suffer the drawbacks if you fail), then don't take a Geas.

One of the ways I am thinking using this is with the Talisman Geas. But a twist is to have the adept required to make the talisman if it is destroyed. that puts a hefty timeframe on it and makes it worth the bonus IMO. Otherwise a 25% cost reduction that can stack with another 25% cost reduction (ways) just seems a little to...i dunno, much i guess. but again, thats just IMO

I'd allow the pink underpants Geas, on the condition that it is worn above all other layers of clothing, superman style. Any clothing that conceals it requires you to wear those pants on your head.

::Clap clap:: I LIKE it!

Yeah, I don't think it's like the character woke up one morning and went 'Hey, these pink breifs are neat - I think when I get my next adept power I'll make it so I have to wear them for the power to work!'

I've always seen geasa more as mental crutches - it only works because the character wholeheartedly believe that he has to wear pink underware in order to be as fat a street samurai. They're his lucky pink underware, and that's why it works...

(and in this case, I'd have those specific pink underpants be a talisman - and washing them will destroy their talisman properties...much like an athlete with a lucky jockstrap)

I tend to picture Geasa as Tradition Philosophy as well... Not so much as a mental Crutch, but as a Basic Requirement for performing Magic in a particular Tradition. Either POV works well, as long as the Geasa is actually limiting and has consequences for failing to follow the Geas. Unfortunately, I have noticed that many players tend to take Geasa that have absolutely no real limitation to them, and then expect to gain the benefits, with none of the drawbacks. It is a bit irritating, actually. *Shrug*

Well, the stupid thing is that his is perfectly defined within the rules, IIRC: A talisman must have three distinct properties, and can only be replaced by an item with those same properties.

So, for instance, a gun adept could have his gun as a talisman, by adding some custom silver finish, a certain engraving, and a even something entirely mundane like an extended clip. Or it could just be a silver locket with a single stone in the front with a picture of Aunt Mary inside it. The talisman could also end up as the adepts Weapon Focus, or whatever.

And in that way most geasa are limiting in theory, but this limitation very rarely comes into play.

I've used (in SR3, when geasa were the shits for mages), things like: Must wear black, can only cast spells at night, a talisman (some gothic style jewelry), and something else I can't remember, all on a mage with heavy cyberware. The first thing that was bought off was night casting, obviously, but the others stayed. His spells were also learned with geasa, for the drain benefit, IIRC. With all his geasa broken (after the night thing) the only spell left would end up an SR3 variant of Shatter at force 1 with a remaining magic attribute of 2. I figured that was just right to get rid of shackles or break out of a prison should he get stripped of everything. There WERE limitations. When we had to do a run in Hazmat suits he had to spray his suit black. Initially during the day he would be left shooting things (which he could do fairly well). But overall they didn't stop him from generally doing what he wanted, and much better than if he hadn't taken all the geasa.

Well, 4th Edition does not work that way, so no Replacing your Lost Magic with a Geas.

The cost in time and money comes into the having to make it himself, it requires both refined and rare reagents to make. and it takes a 28 day circulation to make a rare reagent. Sure you could buy it, but you still have to craft it with the Fetish Rules, and that takes again, time and money. And all that time they are without said ability. Not crippling, but not cozy either.

Actually, no, that would be a house rule. Talismans don't have to be fetishes, unless I'm really misremembering. Talismans also don't need rare ingredients.

@TJ: Sure enough, a sensible thing to change, rules-wise .

Indeed... One of the better changes in my opinion...

Street Magic, Page 81
under Fetishes and Talismans

"A talisman is simply a type of fetish and is crafted in the same way, though enchanting it requires a radical reagent."

The only house rule part would be requiring the adept to make his own talisman.

Don't forget, combining the two bonuses isn't strictly canon. By point of fact, using either of them isn't strictly canon -- both this variation of Adept Geasa and the rules for Ways and their discounts are optional rules. Using either of them is probably fine with some GM input and supervision. Using both of them? That's a little more likely to potentially lead to abuse and an inter-party imbalance.

Check with a grown-up first, kids!

Yep, thats kinda what i was getting at, I just like to come at things from as many angles as I can so that I can respond better when my players try it. And i would be fine with it if, say, they used it for Increased Reflexes, with the talisman geas, and the restrictions i have listed above. In my opinion it would be much simpler just to do one or the other, but it would make a much more interesting character if the DID develop it thusly.