I usually just avoid hacking because the rules are so poor. This time, I want to run a sandbox "knowledge is power" game and can't really get away with that. I've though of a few options
1) I've considered using Frank's matrix total conversion. I have some issues, but I've run some tests and 100% playable
2) I've also though about saying all systems need a specific exploit giving all networks a generic security rating representing how hard it is to find/research an exploit for that system. Once you get it just works and dice determine how long you have detection/reboot/IC/Trace etc. Depending on the people skill and discipline of the targets the the exploit might be closed in rounds or weeks.
Thoughts on either approach or new ones?
3) Social only: all security is perfect ... until meat bags get there oily hands on it. The basic idea is that hackers are either in or out of system. If they are in they auto-pwn in 1 round. As a GM, I would come up with tiered systems hierarchies, and free for probing.

Any thoughts, suggestions, other options?

Option 3 essentially obsoletes hackers in favor of faces.

Make them work for it. Old Skool: "The weakest element in any security system is the human one."

Every high profile attack I can think of over the last few years started with a spear phishing attack that was used to gain control of a machines. The takedown of RSA's Secure ID system started with 3 people in HR getting emailed a spreadsheet labeled 2011 recruitment plan with a zero-day by a Chinese intl agency iirc.

Too bad you can't do this in SR4. ...

What aspects of the rules do you want improved? What kind of players will you have in your campaign?

Option 3 is great, but social hacking should not be the only option.

If "streamlining for faster resolution" is your goal for option 2, try using generic device ratings for parts of the net. Define security checkup intervals to decide how long an exploit works. Look at UW pg. 63-65 for authentication methods, maybe you want something like that.

If you want to require more preparation for hacking, certain nodes might require users to have certain specific software - at work I will loose the choice of browsers in the next days, damn stupid proxy.

Quote off a tshirt I own: "Social Engineering: Because There's No Patch for Human Stupidity"

.. That still assumes your kind of stupidity is superior to that of everyone else

I hate the Matrix. I want to have it in my game, and one of my chars is a hacker, but I cannot deal with the rules, they are the most confusing crock of dreck there is, even worse than that of magic. Also, having three spheres of initiative (regular, matrix and astral) is a bit daunting for a novice GM.

I don't know what "Franks total conversion" is, but I'm tempted to try any streamlining of the wireless rules that have been made.

Frank's rules work, but they have a extremely deep impact on the setting and playstyle.

If you want to change the way the Matrix work, you have to consider these:

The hacker's role
1. Do you want hackers hacking things? If you don't, just go with your solution n°3 and have the face replace the hacker.
2. Do you want to play with the VR metaphor or do you want to ignore it? Do you want it to be common, or only used for very important hacks?
3. Do you want the Matrix plane to be as important as the Astral and Physical plane or do you want it to be dealt with quickly and easily?

The hacker's capabilities
1. Do you want the hacker to be able to tap phone calls or the opposite team's comms?
2. Do you want the hacker to be able to hack on the fly, or do you want him to have to prepare everything before? In the latter case, how do you handle cameras and drones?
3. Do you want the hacker to be able to hack high security systems? Or is he only there to hack minor devices?

Once you've got a clear vision on what you want hacking to be in your game, it'll be easier for you to figure a solution. You'll just have to check the impact your solution has on the game world to make sure there's no issue (like a single hacker being able to bring down the entire Matrix).

In some sleep deprived delusions I've toyed with the idea of running the Matrix like The Matrix (the movie), just change the metaphor. Instead of the height of human civilization, this system's them is the human body itself. Those white blood cells are the Agents (IC, for SR) come to whomp your ass. Or outer space. Those little rows of asteroids are data packets, each one a seperate file.

It falls apart when I try to figure out how to make it actually work, though. I mean, I could just do some sort of price tinker, and say all the gear has a program equivalent, and the price is "x". Of course, this all means nothing if running simply in AR, which I absolutely hate anyway. Also.

Yeah, not fond of the Matrix, and never really have been. Oddly enough, just when I was finally getting the 3rd ed. system for it, they go and change the friggin' editions. I've toyed with bringing in some of those aspects of the system, too. Like the color codes for various nodes (blue, green, orange, red, and even those legendary UV). So far my notion is to let the color be a threshold to do things there. Blue is 1, and go up from there.

Have you ever tried the 'net rules in Cyberpunk 2020? They make the SR4 rules seem refreshing and light

Which is probably why the Matrix Rules in SR4 do not bother me at all.

Our group created our own House Rule for what we call speed hacking. We use if for the less important hacks and when the GM feels like being lazy. It is an opposed test with reasonably large dice pools so be forewarned.

The system is open to abuse, so the GM and players using it need to cooperate on not abusing it.

Here is the link to the MS Excel file we use:
https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D024671_6664841_67257

There are two sheets in the file. We usually use “Option 2”. We use a spreadsheet-based character sheet that makes calculating average program rating very easy. Of course using all your programs at the same rating also makes this easy.

I hope this helps at least a little.

-D

There just needs to be an "anatomy of a shadowrun" for the matrix to help people grok the rules. They're not terribly complicated if you take a couple of hours to really digest them. They're just presented poorly and disjointedly.

Wasn't there something like that, called "Game,set,match" written by Jennifer Harding? That example was pretty confusing...

I agree, however the biggest issue we've had with the matrix "mini-game" is that it tends to detract from the overall pace of the game for anyone who is not the hacker. Earlier versions of SR had this same issue, only worse.

Currently when my GM has an important hack planned, he and I get together outside our normal game time to run the hack without much detail. When it comes time in game for the hack to happen the GM describes the whole encounter to the group and we move on already knowing what happened without it taking much one-on-one time away from the rest of the team. I used to do this in the earlier SR as well, but then it could easily take two or three hours to do, now it's usually only 15 or 20 minutes.

-D

Well to each his own. I think the Matrix rules work out fine, and I have integrated them into a game just fine without making everyone else sit around and wait on the hacker. I just had to read the rules and digest them awhile. I think they work pretty well for the concept I envision and at least my group syas I run it fine. I think Blade has it right. you just need to have a concept of what you expect from the hacker and go from there.

Trevor

Almost everyone not the TM/Hacker is in AR. This means that for most activities the solo mini game is gone. Cybercombat is the only time the complexity of the cybercombat rules moves matrix into minigame mode. And that's just because the TM/Hacker has the capabilities. Just like the Street Sam/Physads do physical combat really well. Because they have the IPs and skills to act when others do not.

Break out of misconceptions. Extend your game.

The non TM/Hacker can assist the main matrix action, either in the Matrix, or from outside. Teamwork and cross over from physical to Matrix views are entirely reasonable.

Hunting for the node to Hack? Why wouldn't a Street Sam want to be able to use the skills of EW and Scan to find that node so they can shoot it up and destroy it (Or point the Hacker at it)? Want to find cameras, sensors, and electronic device? Anyone should want these skills, not just Hackers.

Team work tests can make extended Tests go quicker.

There are a whole bunch of other ways to cross the digital divide.

I´m not sure if I understand. You take 15-20 minute spotlights out of the regular game time? Or are usual matrix runs that short, and your GM runs occasional specials just for you? (Would be the same for Astral Quests then.)

In the kind of integrated play DireRadiant is describing, it really helps if you *haven't* altered the matrix rules to gimp 'script kiddies'. The SR4 rules encourage (and, I continue to assume, on purpose) every character to be matrix active. It's a matrix-integrated world for everyone.

Works either way, actually (Standard Rules, or Logic+Skill Capped by program)... At least for us it did. *shrug*
I agree that everyone is encouraged to be active, to some degree, in the Matrix.

Usual matrix runs take 15-20 minutes.

We have no characters that can project into Astral Space (1 mystic adept, and 3 adepts) so no Astral Quests.

The main hacker is also an infiltrator so she shines more on the infiltration and planning where everyone is involved. Others have stated that all team members should be helping in the matrix, but I'm not sure I want the street sam with his rating 3 communit and no stealth (or minimal stealth) clomping around in the matrix when I'm trying to hack into the "big nasty". That sounds like suicide. Sure if they spend the money and karma on becoming a hacker themselves they could help... but then why would they need a dedicated hacker if everyone else is one too? Our group relies heavily on the concept that we are a team so that no one person does everything, from the sounds of others games the hacker is really unneeded because everyone is supposed to be the hacker and be able to do his job.

Edit:
We also have two players that don’t tend to crack open the books to learn about the game except on game day. Or if they do look in the books, they are only concerned with their character’s primary role and tend to neglect other possibilities. I understand this may be unique to our group, but that is just how it is for us.

We all do have fun and we all get to shine at some point, maybe not every game but often enough. I guess that’s what is important.

The reason we came up with the speed hacking (posted earlier) was just to make the Matrix move a little faster when we needed to keep the story moving, and also it gave us more time to digest the Matrix rules without completely ignoring the Matrix in the mean time.


-D

Why does anyone have a crappy comlink? They are hardly expensive, and you steal all the software anyhow, don't you?

For the first year (RL) of game play we could barely afford our lifestyles. That's gotten better since then.

We don't use the shareware/freeware optional rules. You have to pay for everything. We can't even spoof lifestyles, though I'm working on that one.

-D

We currently have two mages, one samurai, one rigger/hacker and one technomancer. (I´m pulling a CanRay currently - so only one of the mages is actually played.) There has been a dedicated matrix person on the team for several years now. Everybody dabbles in matrix stuff, but the hacking and most of matrix security is handled by the hacker. "Helping with matrix stuff" is doing your own web searches, participating in VPNs relevant to the speciality of your char, and generally knowing when not to stomp around with stealth 3. No team tests, no involvement in planing a matrix run. The area where everybody actually works together is suggesting creative ways to misuse a hacked system.

Why would you need to buy Software more than once?
IF You have an Elite Hacker, have him pass out copies of his software to everyone else. Voila... Now everyone has good programs.

Because now she spends all her spare time keeping that software patched up and working with little time for anything else. Besides why should she Give for free that which she had to pay dearly for? It's not like it's a normal consumable or something that needs to be paid for regularly. (Though I do miss the SOTA rules from earlier editions but that's another topic.) Besides you don’t see the samurai in groups handing everyone free assault rifles (which are cheaper than good software) do you? Sure the samurai might Lend someone a pistol if theirs got lost or out of ammo, but it’s a loan.

The hacker already shares the money she earns from pay data sales. They could use that to buy upgraded equipment and software.

I must admit that now that the game has been going for a long while we are not normally hurting for money. Most of the team has upgraded their comms gear to something more reasonable and following the hacker's advice gotten a good stealth program and good encryption. Most of the characters will do their own data searches and such, but I've never really seen that as helping in the Matrix.

To me helping in the matrix is riding shotgun while the main hacker is hacking "The Big Nasty" either providing cover fire (matrix combat) or assisting by editing logs and searching for less important things on the node in question. In that context the fighter (not really a samurai) and the medic really shouldn't be providing help in the matrix.

-D

If the sammy had a way to duplicate assault rifles, he probably would make sure the team had the best weapons they knew how to use before missions. Stuff like that improves the chances for the team to succeed in their missions, and thus directly makes is easier for the sammy to succeed. All the while providing extra targets for opposing forces.
The same goes for a hacker, really. It's free to copy her software, so she should do it to make sure that in an emergency, the team can still complete the mission even if she is busy, while also providing security spiders with decoys that might force them to spend time finding the dangerous enemy.

Even with a full load-out of really expensive software, I'm not sure that the sam and medic would be matrix targets at all to the spider. Also with no real skills in hacking having either of them tag along while hacking into a system is a guarantee of setting off an alarm. The whole point of being a good hacker is that you get in and out without getting caught. Having a non-matrix specialist "helping" in the matrix is like taking a hyper, nervous, schizophrenic Pomeranian (though I think the adjectives are redundant) with you while trying to sneak past an army. Though it could be fun to be the army, it would be bad to be the sneaker.

Sure all characters should have some modicum of matrix security savvy, they really shouldn’t be overly helpful in the matrix.

The sammy does have a way of duplicating the assault rifles… he just buys more during down-time. SR makes weapons (at least semi-normal ones) very easy to get.

-D

Your Hacker cannot complain about his team sucking in the Matrix if he/she is unwilling to help them do well in the Matrix. Yes, not everyone will be interested in such things, but for those that are, the hacker is shooting herself in the foot if she refuses to assist them.

She does assist the one other character that is interested in the Matrix. That character is also an Inflitrator/Hacker set more into infiltration, where mine is set more into hacking. We team up a lot. The help we provide to the rest of the team is basically enough to keep them out of trouble since they aren't interested in the matrix as more than a means of communication.

The other infiltrator/hacker is now on a leave of absence for a while though, so my hacker is the only one for the group, and also the only infiltration specialist as well. The other team members finally got the hint that they needed infiltration (thank goodness), even if it is low it's better than no skill.

Back to more on-topic though... I still don't like having to take time from the other players to one-on-one a matrix run in the middle of a mission. That's why we came up with speed hacking and why the GM and I will play out a hacking mission beforehand (just lacking detail) so that during game play we can describe what happens while the character is in the matrix to everyone and move on. Makes the whole thing much smoother.

We used to do the same thing under earlier versions of SR, it's just the one-on-one matrix runs took much longer. (dungeon crawl)

-D

We have been running parallel hacks (Hacks and Action simultaneously) since SR4 came out. It is not too difficult, once everyone is on the same page. Everyone who was playing a Hacker sat down and we went through the rules. Sadly, for the longest time, it was just the GM and Myself. Eventually, we gained a Technomancer as well. Over the years, we have played a bit with Optional Rules, and House Rules. They all seem to work pretty well. You just have to decide how you want to proceed, and then make sure everyone is on the same page.

The only real issue we've had with parallel hacks is that hacking from start to finish usually takes about 60 seconds (20 combat turns) or less. There's not a lot a team can do outside of combat that is that fast. We try like heck to not get into combat if we can avoid it.

-D

That is true...
A lot of the time, the infiltration does not move on combat turns, so it is not often an issue. A lot of the time, we are capturing the wireless signals of the security teams to provide us intel while onsite. Once you have them, it is easy to maintain. And takes only a few rolls to establish. AS for gaining access to the Camera's and such, it only takes a few rolls prior or during Infiltration to establish backdoors and such. We prefer prior, less than a minute or 2 for rolls on a slow hack and done.

Our GM uses a lot of wired security systems, so the slow hack is rarely an option. Three of us in the group (including the GM) work in the IT and IT security fields (IRL) and we use SR4's wireless, but we use it smartly. So most security systems are stand-alone hard-wired systems that are not connected to the matrix. Usually the wireless comms between security guards are on their own comms-only network so hacking that for information is good, but a back door will not do alot other than provide a jamming option.

When security or valuable networks are accessable from the Matrix they are usually hidden three or four networks deep so the slow hack becomes the very slow hack. We also use a lot of one-way trusts within the networks making hacking that much more difficult.

But as always we have fun.

-D

Sounds like you do a lot of things similar to the way we do them. Most of our hacks tend to be onsite. On the occasion where we can do slow hacks prior to the run, we are very happy campers. Probably a mix of 65 (wired)-35 (wireless). ANY major information tends to be on wired systems, several layers deep. About half the time, we hit wireless security (remote camera's, etc), as it tends to be cheaper in the long run for a company, at least in the 2070's, though in some places there are two layers, one wireless and one wired.