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Full Version: Unarmed adept. elemental fist. Which element to get?
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Krishach
It seems a day late and a dollar short, but I did want to point out something about metal element, and other things that add to armor. Since DV is flat to resist as a threshold, and armor is something rolled, +2DV for +2AP is quite worth it. Yes, if they have 6 armor, chances are they would roll 2 hits to negate the bonus, but without it there would be 6 armor still.

Using average 1 in 3 dice hits, +1 DV is worth +3 AP. Just something to think about.

As for the elements, it looks like you have sound working for you. Like has been suggested by others, I have never taken it, as our group always tries the quiet approach first, and that includes the opening notes of combat. You may therefore want to pack those shock-gloves anyway, or something else fitting your character and quiet, if you haven't already, as well as something for the drone menace. Good luck!
pbangarth
QUOTE (StealthSigma @ Aug 17 2012, 02:08 PM) *
Obviously, this power needs an Orgasm element.
That's just sick.
pbangarth
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Aug 18 2012, 07:20 PM) *
I think i mentioned it in another thread, but i've wanted to do this idea as a Free Spirit for some time now. A mix of spells and spirit powers to be the Free Spirit of Rock. Why use the rage of a music god when you can BE one?
Terry Pratchett, anyone?
Udoshi
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Aug 18 2012, 04:42 PM) *
It'd be broken if you could have more than one effect going at the same time i guess.


You need to look up the Firewater line of spells. Digital grimoire has an Aura version of it. Double elemental spells already exist.
Yerameyahu
It seems like the GM might want to check them first to see if they're problematically destroying each others' penalties. 'The AP doesn't matter' is just silly. I guess in theory the drain is controlling it.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Aug 18 2012, 06:59 PM) *
You need to look up the Firewater line of spells. Digital grimoire has an Aura version of it. Double elemental spells already exist.


But Double Elemental Elemental Strikes do not.
_Pax._
... all I have to say is, "Elemental Strike: Radiation". Heh.

Even if they don't die TODAY ... they're likely to die EVENTUALLY.
Umidori
*Whap! Biff! Sock!*

"Ha, I've just punched you full of radiation! You're a dead man walking!"
"...I'm going to shoot you now."
"Oh. Right."

*Dakka-dakka-dakka-splort!*

~Umi
UmaroVI
QUOTE (Krishach @ Aug 18 2012, 07:03 PM) *
It seems a day late and a dollar short, but I did want to point out something about metal element, and other things that add to armor. Since DV is flat to resist as a threshold, and armor is something rolled, +2DV for +2AP is quite worth it. Yes, if they have 6 armor, chances are they would roll 2 hits to negate the bonus, but without it there would be 6 armor still.

Using average 1 in 3 dice hits, +1 DV is worth +3 AP. Just something to think about.

This reasoning is bad, because you are ignoring opportunity cost. You're not trading 2 AP for 2 DV. You're trading half+2 AP for 2 DV, because the alternative to metal isn't no element, it's a half-AP element (or Sound, but that's harder to compare directly).
KnightAries
QUOTE (_Pax._ @ Aug 18 2012, 10:19 PM) *
... all I have to say is, "Elemental Strike: Radiation". Heh.

Even if they don't die TODAY ... they're likely to die EVENTUALLY.


So you can take credit for their death 40 years later when they are old and dying of cancer? Humm... I wonder if the pollution of the 6th would may have had anything to do with it. smile.gif


Personally I like Ice as many runners have protection from fire and electricity but not many run w/ protection from cold.
Umidori
QUOTE (UmaroVI @ Aug 19 2012, 07:36 AM) *
This reasoning is bad, because you are ignoring opportunity cost. You're not trading 2 AP for 2 DV. You're trading half+2 AP for 2 DV, because the alternative to metal isn't no element, it's a half-AP element (or Sound, but that's harder to compare directly).


EDIT - So I felt I was missing something, turns out I was. Metal doesn't halve armor before the +2 AP. Which is absurd. Hence my confusion, I assumed it did. My original comment is retained below, for posterity.

What?

How is adding 2 AP to a halved armor pool any different than adding 2 AP to a full armor pool? Or more clearly, why is +2AP worse to suffer when targets only get half their armor than it is when they get all their armor?

Think of Metal Element as a flechette round. Normal flechettes deal +2DV and impose +5AP. But since Metal is a magical element, it halves armor both the armor of the enemy and the armor bonus that flechettes normally grant. So the +5 AP is halved to +2 AP (rounded down).

~Umi
Yerameyahu
His point is that you can either take Metal, or like Ice. Ice is Half Impact, Metal is (Full) Impact + 2. So the *difference* in your choice is not 2, it's Half Impact + 2.
Raiden
I have now made a troll adept unarmed chaos machine. AND he is an amazing face. (20 dice on rolls) he wears a a pure white exeutive suit with a long jacket, slicked back black hair, and his horns seems to flow smoothly with his hair curling up at the end just above the back of his neck. he always wears sunglasses. Oh he also uses the Blast element + smashing blow. right now he does around 26 DV to structures if I read everything correctly. he makes his own doorways lol. and if he punches you, you will know it. His street name. Tiny Turner. perhaps it would be more hilarious for a human child to do that blowing walls apart bit. but eh. lol. Oh can you stack carbon-boron with Kevlar threading, or Delt-amlyoid?
Dakka Dakka
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 19 2012, 11:37 PM) *
His point is that you can either take Metal, or like Ice. Ice is Half Impact, Metal is (Full) Impact + 2. So the *difference* in your choice is not 2, it's Half Impact + 2.
Is there a rule how two elemental effects stack? I have never seen one. Firewater/Napalm is easy as both give -half impact. AFAIK there is no example of combining two effects with different AP values. It could be anything from 0.5*(Impact+2) to Impact+2

BTW I think it should be Impact+5 for metal alone as any other flying shrapnel gets that AP.
UmaroVI
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Aug 19 2012, 06:12 PM) *
Is there a rule how two elemental effects stack? I have never seen one. Firewater/Napalm is easy as both give -half impact. AFAIK there is no example of combining two effects with different AP values. It could be anything from 0.5*(Impact+2) to Impact+2

BTW I think it should be Impact+5 for metal alone as any other flying shrapnel gets that AP.


No, there's no rules, guidelines, or examples for this.
Yerameyahu
No clue, Dakka Dakka. That was what I was saying earlier, the GM should decide how to deal with that kind of obvious, intentional minmaxing. smile.gif Of course, any spell that's not in the book (… and maybe even then!) is subject to full GM approval by default.

For the decision of just Metal vs. just (Ice, etc.), though, it doesn't matter. I can see how people got confused.
_Pax._
QUOTE (UmaroVI @ Aug 19 2012, 10:36 AM) *
This reasoning is bad, because you are ignoring opportunity cost. You're not trading 2 AP for 2 DV. You're trading half+2 AP for 2 DV, because the alternative to metal isn't no element, it's a half-AP element (or Sound, but that's harder to compare directly).

Radiation is also an "ignores armor" element. smile.gif
Umidori
But you do at least get the dice from radiation shielding mods to your armor. Or standing behind lead walls or something. nyahnyah.gif

~Umi
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Umidori @ Aug 19 2012, 05:28 PM) *
But you do at least get the dice from radiation shielding mods to your armor. Or standing behind lead walls or something. nyahnyah.gif

~Umi


Cause yeah, I always use Radiation Shielding in my Armor... smile.gif
ZeroPoint
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Aug 20 2012, 10:17 AM) *
Cause yeah, I always use Radiation Shielding in my Armor... smile.gif


Well, if your playing in Pripyat...
StealthSigma
QUOTE (ZeroPoint @ Aug 20 2012, 10:29 AM) *
Well, if your playing in Pripyat...


*with a Russian accent* Get out of here stalker.
Dakka Dakka
In Soviet Russia radiation shields you (Radiation Aura)
KnightAries
QUOTE (Street Magic)
The specific elemental effect must be chosen at the time the power is bought, though an adept may take this power
more than once to achieve different elemental effects (only one elemental effect may be applied per strike). While active,
the power wreathes the adeptís hands with a visible effect appropriate to the chosen element. Activating Elemental Strike
is a Simple Action, aft er which the eff ect lasts for (Magic attribute) Combat Turns.
UmaroVI
You get multiple elements with a multi-element Element Aura spell. Or any other elemental spell.
StealthSigma
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Aug 18 2012, 08:18 PM) *
That's just sick.


What? You punch them. They orgasm. You start creating a trail of masochists after you.
KnightAries
QUOTE (StealthSigma @ Aug 20 2012, 10:10 AM) *
What? You punch them. They orgasm. You start creating a trail of masochists after you.


The only thing you can do to you Mr(s) J and they not want to kill you afterwards.
LOL!!!
pbangarth
QUOTE (ZeroPoint @ Aug 20 2012, 09:29 AM) *
Well, if your playing in Pripyat...

Or Los Angeles. Our current home campaign is there, and my guy certainly has radiation shielding in his armour.
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