I am making a character that is a dwarf adept that uses a pull bow. I am wondering what modifications can be put on one. Obviously anything involving ammo is a no. But what about a smartlink? I remember in SR3 it required a "Bow accessory mount," but it seems like SR4 follows the "If it makes sense, go for it" rule a lot.

Sure, probably. There's been "smartball" technology since Shadobeat or so, in the fluff. Smartlinks are already miniature ballistic computers that know how to track trajectories, range, windage, drop, etc, etc. So as far as I'm concerned, why not? A couple extra dice to the archers isn't the end of the world, I figure.

Just assume that "bow accessory mounts" come with all bows, as an optional attachment at least.

That is what i figured. Despite that however, i cant find much that could feasibly be added to a bow.

I gave it a smartgun system, melee hardening, and an infrared flashlight. Also looking at a bayonet mount, or maybe an "under-barreled weapon"?

He also has a collapsible bow with rating 1 ceramics, and chameleon coating. For smuggling into places.

any suggestions?

Edit: should probably point out that with the smartlink, he will be rolling 21 dice when firing his bow, and Ready Weapon is a free action for him.

Custom Look
Flashlight
Personalised Grip (though the benefits are ill-defined - I'd say give it +1 die, like melee weapons)
Powered Slide Mount (if you wanted to have exchangeable accessories)
Tracker
Weapon Commlink

1)Probably going with it, as he is a definite steampunk themed gentleman.
2)Already have it on the combat bow
3)Maybe, as he can fire two arrows in a turn. It depends on whether recoil applies in that way to a bow.
4)What accessories would i need to swap out? Would i really need that many?
5)Also a definite possibility. Not on the covert one though, as i don't like that being used against me.
6)Wondering what this will give me, that a normal comm wont.

In my opinion the 'melee hardening' part would make a bayonet-like attachment fairly silly. And trying to fit something designed as an underbarrel attachment for a gun can lead to inconvenient result as you lack the bracing given by shouldering a gun. Recoil-prone things like a grenade launchers are more likely to give you a facefull of bow than hit the target.

4) Different Scopes for different conditions, Improved Range Finder (reduce range penalties by 1)

6) Still looking for an answer to that one myself. Other than a spot to drop a weapon personality/virtual person so you can have a SR version of a sentient weapon I'm thinking they're just something else to get hacked. Can be useful if you need an additional link to run agents/other stuff on (like data translation if you were using an obselescent firearm or some such) I spose.

Reduced weight is a viable option I believe.
It occurs to me that your GM might be willing to repeal the forbidden rating on a MAD-proof bow below a certain strength rating... by getting one made of wood. Likewise, a non-metallic easy-breakdown bow is far from unreasonable and shouldn't be horrifically illegal.

I was thinking more along the lines of a sword of some kind. i picture a vibrosword or knife. but at the same time he has a sword cane.



5) Ah, but couldn't i upgrade the "gun camera" to do the same thing?

6)exactly

If you've got space for all the ones you might need, sure. A slide mount would make for simpler, field interchangable vision enhancements though. I could certainly see the utility of this being subject to debate (and how many vision enhancements your character "needs" on his weapon) though.

To clarify, I wasn't suggesting "you should get these"; rather, I was just listing the ones that seemed possible for bows, that hadn't been mentioned in the two or three prior posts.

Take the Increased Magazine size; fire two arrows at once, Robin Hood style.

Or better yet, take the two-slot "drum" version and fire eight, Men in Tights style.

Note that you still only have 1 free action per pass, effectively allowing you to fire 1.5 arrows per pass:
1st pass: (assuming arrow is already nocked) Fire(simple action) -> Ready(free action) -> Fire(simple action)
2nd pass: Ready(free action) -> Fire(simple) -> Ready(free action upgraded to simple)

Rinse and repeat.

As for upgrades:
Smartlink + MRSI
Low-light Flashlight (if you have low-light vision)
Melee Hardening

Those are IMO the standard ones. MRSI isn't strictly necessary, but it allows for a lot of punch if needed. Some DMs dislike it, but ditching it doesn't really gimp you either.

What Elfenlied said. Plus, it's stupid to use Krav Maga for a bow. Everyone knows that. And it makes for complicated turns, which is no good. Ditch it.
MRSI is just as stupid.

Better just ready the weapon, aim for [extra DV | armor negation] and shoot once a turn. It's that simple. And it's how bows are supposed to work. Think "Bows are SS weapons". Crossbows on the otherhand state they "allow for a faster rate of fire", so i guess they are SA.


Actually the Projectile weapon rules in general are a total mess. If your GM is a RAW-guy, there is just no way to use them at all because no action exists that lets you fire one. The usual attack action just lets you attack with "a firearm using SS, SA or BF mode". A bow is neither a firearm (it references precisely the paragraph about firearms and not projectile weapons) nor has it a shooting mode like SA. Hence, you cannot fire it.
I honestly don't know why they didnt just say "Bows are SS and require you to ready weapon prior to every shot. Crossbows are SA and don't need that action."

I disagree, the rules aren't a mess... something that doesn't exist can't be a mess. RAW, the only way to hurt someone with a bow is to get close and use it as an improvised weapon

Actually at our table this lack of ruling has made crossbows SS weapons rather than your proposed SA, which highlights another flaw with the lack of clear rules: a player migrating from your table to mine would find their crossbowman considerably less effective... simply due to the rules forcing a houserule on every table.

Actions exist to fire bows. Shadowrun has catch all actions so pick your poison. Use Simple Object. Use Complex Object. Anything that does not have a dedicated action type can be lumped under either of those.

Yeah, except that...nope.

Are you really trying to argue that this is supposed to be the right way? Is a bow simple or complex? That's definitely not how it should be.

I said that they exist, not that they're the best way and it would be GM determination on whether the bow qualifies as a simple or complex object.

The Action is : Use Skill...
The Skill is Archery

The krav maga isn't just for his bow, he also uses a sword cane in melee. Plus i like the 2/1/2/1 pattern.

I think my GM just figures it is the same action as firing a gun. After all, that is what makes sense. Something tells me that they wouldn't include a new action with different rules just for bows and the like.

Has this been changed?



Now, the second part seems to be for firearms since you only need to draw it once and not ready it again after firing. But it could also apply to bows, right? To allow you to fire twice per IP? Bows are Simple Actions to use. So an Adept with this could attack twice... though there's the oddness with the "drawing a missile weapon".

Yeah, it boils down to only allowing to draw a missile weapon, not ammunition for it and ready the missile weapon with it.

Small minded. What is the definition of "draw," for example?

Take Iaijutsu for either Bows or Arrows (whichever will make your GM happy) and enjoy two shots (at least) an IP..

So you think that's how it is intended? One little feat to gain permanent double damage? I guess so...

Considering the investment needed to get an archer to do the same amount of damage as a firearm?... yes. Hell, compare an unmodified Ares HVBR used by anyone with Automatics to an Adept Archer who probably has 'ware to increase their Strength to use a stronger bow.

No ware. As the largest str possible for a bow is 10 and the bow does STR+2...I am using a rating 9 bow, and only using one point of an adept power to gain the +1 i need.

And i do have Iajustsu for arrows. My GM agreed it is what is required to get two shots.

A sword and a bow behaves very differently when it comes to bending, it doesn't sound like somethingn very doable.. A far more doable addon would be a monowhip, though you'd probably need to uncord the bow to use it's shaft as an extra-long handle (which makes it safer in case of mishaps as you're farther from the monowire, at the expense of needing a lot of elbow room). But uncording a pulley bow takes in muy opinion too long ot make it anything close to practical.
A more realist option would be something like a spiked brass knuckle over the grip and some sort of spikes or short blades at the tips, gviving a bit more damage in melee - at the expense of wieghting down the bow and slowing your aim (I'd guesstimate tht as something like -1 to the shooting pool for each extra damage)

When it comes to bow, I personaly would consider the pulling a fresh arrow and readying it as roughly equivalent to drawing out and readying a melee weapon - drawing, aiming and realising the arrow being another simple action. There's' no physical way to be faster with that than what you'd get out of a bolt-action rifle.

It's even worse for the heavy-duty crosbows as most of thme need some sort of winch mechanism that requires the user to put them completely out of the line of fire to draw, probably requiring a complex action to perform - if not a complew action to draw and a simple one to get it back into firing position and put the quarrel in place.

No, it's 8. SR4A changed the limit.

He may have confused the bow strength with the damage when he mentioned Strength 10 there.

What about that Flick bayonet? From WAR I think it is. Have it wrap around the bow staff itself.

It's 8 max strength, correct. Which is kind of said, because there is no reason to be a bow wielding TROLL anymore. I don't know why the damage is calculated off of pure strength and not Str/2 as usual. Would have made for more streamlining. Same goes for grapple damage.

It's how the Quick Draw rules are written: ready a weapon and attack at the same time. It can only be done with pistols, but with the Adept Ability or Iaijutsu Maneuver its role is expanded to include other weapons, including bows. The only thing I'm unsure of is whether you need Iaijutsu for Arrows or Bows. Either way you spend the points and it works though.

SR4A? I am looking at the 20th anniversary edition and it says 12.

And the GM said to take it for arrows, said it made more logical sense.

SR4A is the 20th Anniversary edition. Maybe it was changed in errata and incorporated into later print/pdf runs of this book?

Yeah it's in the changes document.

Beg to differ:
<img src="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c313/GMPax/Shadowrun/SR_bow_limit.jpg">

But the action is Fire Weapon, which a bow is. In addition someone mentioned the Use Simple Object action defined as:

That is so weird, my copy says 12, i kid you not. That is good to know(even though i disagree with it on a fluff level), so i can put a point of adept power in something else.

It's a known issue with early print runs.

So as a somewhat related followup for a Sasquatch I'm building, is the general consensus that arrow ratings are no more at this point?

There are actually TWO EDITIONS of ANNIVERSARY EDITION.
Yes, its in caps because its DUMB.

The PDF release got a SECOND nerf in time for print, and its NOT entirely documented(or erratad) in 'that big incomplete 4a changelist that people like to point fingers at'.
I'm fairly certain that ultrasound camera addons got capacity nerfed in the same manner as well.

most current printing has it at max str 8.

Far as I remember, Arrow Ratings are still there. *shrug* Shows how often I use a Bow.

Hmm, ok. The hardback and .pdf I have of SR4A both have one passing mention of arrow rating in the projectile combat rule section but then no mention in the actual gear section in the description or in the stat block/pricing table. Chummer still has the ratings though.

If we still need to use arrow ratings, strong archery gets pretty damn expensive over time compared to say a sniper rifle (¥4700 for 100 barbed R8 arrows).

With the benefit that you can usually retrieve some of those arrows.

Nope. No arrow ratings anymore.

Not so sure about that one. *shrug*
At least you will not be retrieving many of them, anyways.

Not according to the most recent Anniversary Publication (Book, The Precious, and PDF).
Unless something else has come out recently that has rescinded that rule.

IMO it's simple: if it's not in the equipment lists, then any references to arrows having ratings are cut-and-paste "legacy text" errors.

If you have no way to BUY a Rating 6 arrow, then no such thing exists.

It is in the equipment lists, on the table itself. Rating x2 Availability, and Rating x5 Cost.
Seems like you can buy it to me...

Well, bugger. So it is. How on earth did I miss that ...??