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Sinistra
Is Wired Reflexes the only way to get more passes excluding Magic for non-matrix actions. I have been doing through my books but I am unable to find anything else so I turn to the people of the forums to aid me in my search. I would also prefer to avoid drugs.
Thanee
In the core rulebook there is also the bioware Synaptic Accelerator.

In Augmentation you get another cyberware option with the Move-by-Wire System.

Bye
Thanee
Fatum
Spells, adept abilities, implants and drugs, that's it.
Makki
QUOTE (Fatum @ Oct 12 2012, 07:44 PM) *
Spells, adept abilities, implants and drugs, that's it.

Edge wink.gif
being Infected
DWC
QUOTE (Makki @ Oct 12 2012, 03:50 PM) *
Edge wink.gif
being Infected


Being infected is a drug. It just has an infinite duration. smile.gif
Halinn
QUOTE (Fatum @ Oct 12 2012, 07:44 PM) *
Spells, adept abilities, implants and drugs, that's it.

Technomancers can get extra meat passes with the right echoes as well.
Dolanar
outside of magic, there are 3 tech methods, & a few drug methods.
KarmaInferno
Cyborgs can get 5 passes.
FuelDrop
With a big enough gun you don't need multiple initiative passes. A mini-thor is generally considered a big enough gun for most skirmishes.
Xenefungus
And now go rescue that hostage with a thor shot :->
FuelDrop
QUOTE (Xenefungus @ Oct 13 2012, 06:38 PM) *
And now go rescue that hostage with a thor shot :->

Sounds like how i play counter-strike smile.gif
Halinn
QUOTE (Xenefungus @ Oct 13 2012, 12:38 PM) *
And now go rescue that hostage with a thor shot :->

Sorry sir, there was an unfortunate amount of collateral damage, but you can be sure that hobo won't take any more hostages.
Neraph
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Oct 12 2012, 10:26 PM) *
Cyborgs can get 5 passes.

Anyone who uses cyber can, as can Technomancers.
KarmaInferno
Technically, that's "anyone that uses VR can", but for most folks it requires at least one implant and often only on the Matrix.

Cyborgs can get 5 passes in meatspace, which is notable.



-k
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Neraph @ Oct 14 2012, 12:19 AM) *
Anyone who uses cyber can, as can Technomancers.


Riggers can get 5 Passes.
It is questionable whether a Cyborg can benefit from the Cyber that allows that 5th Pass, unless it is being Rigged by a rigger (with the appropriate equipment), and not the CCU.
Neraph
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Oct 14 2012, 06:47 AM) *
Cyborgs can get 5 passes in meatspace, which is notable.

Technomancers and Riggers who jump into drones now have 5 IP in meatspace also, which is the point I was trying to make.

QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 14 2012, 08:27 AM) *
Riggers can get 5 Passes.
It is questionable whether a Cyborg can benefit from the Cyber that allows that 5th Pass, unless it is being Rigged by a rigger (with the appropriate equipment), and not the CCU.

Or it depends on the way you become a cyborg. The CCU leaves you at 0.1 Essence and only a brain, and while the rules specifically state that only cultured bioware should be allowed to stay, it is a small logical leap (albeit a logical leap and therefore a House-Rule) to allow any sort of brain-based 'ware to remain.
KarmaInferno
Er, 1 base, 2 from hot sim, one from the commlink IP booster, one from the implant that is explicitly allowed to cyborgs (I think they may actually get it for free?)

5 passes.



-k
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Oct 14 2012, 02:02 PM) *
Er, 1 base, 2 from hot sim, one from the commlink IP booster, one from the implant that is explicitly allowed to cyborgs (I think they may actually get it for free?)

5 passes.



-k


Except that the Implant is not explicitly allowable for Cyborgs, as ALL Cyberware has been romoved, to make room for the CCU implementation. AS Neraph indicated, it is a Houserule that allows the cyborg to keep the relevant Cyberware for that 5th Pass. And since that Relevant piece of 'Ware is .5 Essence, well, you die on implantation (Essence drops to -0.4). *shrug* smile.gif
KarmaInferno
Except it's not a house rule, for the specific implant in question. It's RAW, explicit and specific.

Augmentation, page 163, Cranial Containment Unit:

"The device incorporates an onboard Response 4, Signal 4 commlink (which may be upgraded as normal, see p. 240, SR4) modified for hot sim, as well as a simsense booster (p. 37) and control rig (p. 331, SR4)."


Part of the package of being a Cyborg.

I repeat my assertion. Base 1 pass, Hot Sim VR +2 passes, Simsense Accelerator commlink modification +1 pass, Simsense Booster implant +1 pass. 5 passes.



-k
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Oct 15 2012, 07:57 AM) *
Except it's not a house rule, for the specific implant in question. It's RAW, explicit and specific.

Augmentation, page 163, Cranial Containment Unit:

"The device incorporates an onboard Response 4, Signal 4 commlink (which may be upgraded as normal, see p. 240, SR4) modified for hot sim, as well as a simsense booster (p. 37) and control rig (p. 331, SR4)."


Part of the package of being a Cyborg.

I repeat my assertion. Base 1 pass, Hot Sim VR +2 passes, Simsense Accelerator commlink modification +1 pass, Simsense Booster implant +1 pass. 5 passes.



-k


Would you look at that one. smile.gif
Read that multiple times ands still completely missed it. Thanks KarmaInferno. smile.gif
Neraph
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Oct 15 2012, 07:57 AM) *
Except it's not a house rule, for the specific implant in question. It's RAW, explicit and specific.

Augmentation, page 163, Cranial Containment Unit:

"The device incorporates an onboard Response 4, Signal 4 commlink (which may be upgraded as normal, see p. 240, SR4) modified for hot sim, as well as a simsense booster (p. 37) and control rig (p. 331, SR4)."


Part of the package of being a Cyborg.

I repeat my assertion. Base 1 pass, Hot Sim VR +2 passes, Simsense Accelerator commlink modification +1 pass, Simsense Booster implant +1 pass. 5 passes.

Yup. With a little work you can get a cyborg to crazy amounts of Initiative also (6 Response + 6 Intuition + 2 Hotsim + 6 Response Enhancer + 1 Custom Interface = 21, and an average of 26 rolled).
KarmaInferno
At that point you could just take the 4/1 "buying hits" option instead of rolling, get a 24, and often STILL go first.




-k
Neraph
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Oct 15 2012, 08:51 AM) *
At that point you could just take the 4/1 "buying hits" option instead of rolling, get a 24, and often STILL go first.

21/4, rounded down = 5. 5 + 21 = 26, which is what I used as my average.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Neraph @ Oct 15 2012, 08:41 AM) *
Yup. With a little work you can get a cyborg to crazy amounts of Initiative also (6 Response + 6 Intuition + 2 Hotsim + 6 Response Enhancer + 1 Custom Interface = 21, and an average of 26 rolled).


My Cyberlogician's AI Girlfried has an Initiative of 25 IIRC. Would have to look.
Of course, she only has 4 IP's (IIRC)... frown.gif
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (Neraph @ Oct 15 2012, 10:54 AM) *
21/4, rounded down = 5. 5 + 21 = 26, which is what I used as my average.

Yeah, but "averaging" isn't actually in the rules as a play option, whereas the 4/1 buying hits rules are.

I ran across a Missions character doing that. He had a 25 Init, and used the Buying Hits whenever the GM allowed it instead of rolling all those dice.




-k
Neraph
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Oct 15 2012, 09:05 AM) *
Yeah, but "averaging" isn't actually in the rules as a play option, whereas the 4/1 buying hits rules are.

I ran across a Missions character doing that. He had a 25 Init, and used the Buying Hits whenever the GM allowed it instead of rolling all those dice.

I use the term "average" to give people an idea of what can be expected, not as an actual hard-rule that would be used in games.

I thought Missions characters were capped to a dicepool of 20.
KarmaInferno
Dice pool cap is 20 OR double attribute + skill, whichever is higher.

It is true that the SRM FAQ says to apply the cap to all dice pools, but this is an error since the Dice Cap rules are only written to cover skill tests, and Bull has as much admitted it is an error. Which in theory should be fixed eventually. When he gets a chance to update the FAQ. If he remembers.




-k
Neraph
Hrm. I kinda liked the concept of capping a dicepool to 20 for speed of gameplay.
StealthSigma
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Oct 15 2012, 11:13 AM) *
Dice pool cap is 20 OR double attribute + skill, whichever is higher.


Which would require an Intuition and Reaction that add together for 13 points (13*2 = 26). That's not particularly hard to achieve.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (StealthSigma @ Oct 15 2012, 02:31 PM) *
Which would require an Intuition and Reaction that add together for 13 points (13*2 = 26). That's not particularly hard to achieve.


If you are talkking about Initiative (and I think we still are)... you need to have each attribute at 13 to reach 26. THAT IS very hard to reach, since neither can reach that point normally. There is a sever lack of Augmentations that allow you to raise your Intuition, and Unless you are Genetweaked/Surged out the gills, reaching 13 Reaction is nigh impossible. smile.gif
Medicineman
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 15 2012, 05:55 PM) *
If you are talkking about Initiative (and I think we still are)... you need to have each attribute at 13 to reach 26. THAT IS very hard to reach, since neither can reach that point normally. There is a sever lack of Augmentations that allow you to raise your Intuition, and Unless you are Genetweaked/Surged out the gills, reaching 13 Reaction is nigh impossible. smile.gif

You could Reach REA 8(12) and INT 8 (12) with advantages,Magic,KiPowers etc., but thats the Limit (unless Your a -6 Essence Cyberzombie with exceptional Attributes and Genetic Optimisation etc ,pp.,than You can cross the "Ini 40-Border") for a "Normal" maximized Char.

with a Maximized Dance
Medicineman
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 15 2012, 06:55 PM) *
If you are talkking about Initiative (and I think we still are)... you need to have each attribute at 13 to reach 26. THAT IS very hard to reach, since neither can reach that point normally. There is a sever lack of Augmentations that allow you to raise your Intuition, and Unless you are Genetweaked/Surged out the gills, reaching 13 Reaction is nigh impossible. smile.gif

No.

Reaction + Intuition totaling 13, and then a bunch of other Init modifiers, resulting a maximum dice pool of 26.

Not easy to do, but not impossible either.

Assuming you are applying the core book Dice Pool Cap rule to Initiative, which it's not really supposed to be applied to.



-k
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Oct 15 2012, 10:38 PM) *
No.

Reaction + Intuition totaling 13, and then a bunch of other Init modifiers, resulting a maximum dice pool of 26.

Not easy to do, but not impossible either.

Assuming you are applying the core book Dice Pool Cap rule to Initiative, which it's not really supposed to be applied to.

-k


There are not 13 points of Init Modifiers. Care to share what you think they may be?
There are MORE for a Cyborg or Hacker/Rigger (in the Matrix) than other archetypes, though.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 15 2012, 09:50 AM) *
you die on implantation (Essence drops to -0.4). *shrug* smile.gif


Uh. No you don't. You go on borrowed time and become a cyberzombie (and thus an NPC in most cases).

You can go down to -6 essence before dying on the operating table outright.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Oct 16 2012, 06:25 AM) *
Uh. No you don't. You go on borrowed time and become a cyberzombie (and thus an NPC in most cases).

You can go down to -6 essence before dying on the operating table outright.


Only assuming you are in a clinic that can perform the Neccromantic Cyberzombie Ritual/Procedure, there is a ritual tream ready and waiting to perform said ritual, and only if they care to spend the money doing so. If you do not satisfy all those conditionds, then you die (there is no borowed time while you seek such things out).
For all common cases, you die. Cyberzombies are not something that just happen.
The Jopp
QUOTE (Neraph @ Oct 14 2012, 05:05 PM) *
Or it depends on the way you become a cyborg. The CCU leaves you at 0.1 Essence and only a brain, and while the rules specifically state that only cultured bioware should be allowed to stay, it is a small logical leap (albeit a logical leap and therefore a House-Rule) to allow any sort of brain-based 'ware to remain.


So...a cyborg rigger that you turn into a cyberzombie by taking his brain and cram it into negative essence by purely headware and brainware...

Here\s the ticker though.

The cyborg body would get 5ip by rigging but would most likely be far weaker than a regular 'flesh' zombie.

Still, a walking death tank drone with a magical inhibiting field that is super fast....* shudder *
Neraph
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 16 2012, 06:56 AM) *
There are not 13 points of Init Modifiers. Care to share what you think they may be?
There are MORE for a Cyborg or Hacker/Rigger (in the Matrix) than other archetypes, though.

The only meatspace one that comes to mind is the Improved Initiative spell. But of course I'm going from memory and not hunting my books right now.
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