They're quite used to low lvl campaigns so I don't reckon it will be much of an issue.
On the flip side if they start with alot of toys the path to progressing their characters is less clear, SR progression is already less straight forward then level based progression as is.
Having a clear goals to aim for might ease that transition.
Full Version: How to ease players into a runner's mindset?
QUOTE (Medicineman @ Oct 17 2012, 06:28 AM) 
Sniff,Sniff
Can it be ?
I seem to smell...some....Irony in this Board....Grumpy and Old but ....Yes ,the Stench is there....
Can it be ?
I seem to smell...some....Irony in this Board....Grumpy and Old but ....Yes ,the Stench is there....
*grin*
I recently began a new group (mostly family) who have VERY little experience with roleplaying, and none at all with the SR universe. I faced some of the same challenges you do (teach the rules, achieve immersion, foster the mindset, etc) and came up with the following:
We had our first session creating the characters AS the players. In other words we took each player (like my brother for instance), discussed what his attributes and skills would be if he were in the SR universe (he's a banker, a motorcycle enthusiast, a gambler, a budding musician, a woodworker, a martial arts practitioner, etc), and then shoehorned that all into a character using 80 build points +flaws-edges. I picked 80BP for two reasons: first, without choosing a metahuman race, magic, or resources it's simply not necessary to have more points for most people, and second it gave a 40+ point buffer to allow later training in SR specific skills, resources, or focused attribute training after exposing them to all the options. I chose to have them make themselves AS characters because it would give them a familiarity with how the mechanics translated to real world equivalents, and also intimate understanding of their characters so that they wouldn't have any difficulty behaving 'in-character'.
Next I wrote a short story describing how they (and others) were all at a party this coming December when suddenly a group of uniformed men stormed the house and began injecting everyone with sedatives, taking them prisoner. I provided numerous plot points and clues towards the overarching campaign as well. Then I had these men take everyone through a time portal into the SR universe (with the timeline modified a bit by readjusting everything 24 years...so for them 2074 is equivalent to 2050 in the books) where they were kept sedated and in special isolation to allow medical experimentation on humans not affected by the return of magic or the various diseases and organisms of the day. The story then told of their 'rescue' by two competing teams of runners, and how they were gradually taught about what had happened. The breaks in the story allowed me to slowly run them through training sessions, each aimed at showing them how a particular part of the game mechanics worked. So for instance, the physical adept in the runner group began a fitness program to overcome their degenerative atrophy from long stasis, which included hand to hand and melee combat. We would then play out simple training exercises using only those rules, allowing them to digest in small doses how the game was played. They were exposed to all forms of combat, magic, rigging, decking, investigation, socialization, entertainment, etc, all one at a time. Finally the story climaxed with an event that left the characters mostly on their own, with just the people they'd met as contacts, and the remainder of a mystery to be solved.
Doing this allowed me to show them all the options before they had to choose how to spend all their BPs. At this point they're given the remaining 40BP and allowed to place them any way that makes sense based on the training and resources provided to them in the story. Since they suddenly found themselves out of stasis in a magic rich, VITAS and UGE plagued world they could also logically choose to awaken or change to metahuman, or undergo other reasonable changes based on the events which had transpired. It also left them in a peculiar position: they had no identities which could be known...should the government or a corporation investigate them deeply enough it would become apparent that they were somehow from another time, and that would be the end of them. This gave them incentive to run the shadows, even moreso than solving the mystery of their arrival had. It also left them precious few resources (no cyber beyond datajacks, only a few simple bits of armor and a few weapons, etc), and so they had desperate need of creds. Since they had no official identities, couldn't fall under corporate scrutiny, and only knew shadowrunners, their only option was to become shadowrunners themselves. Because they had to spend so many of their starting points on things not normally used in the game (mundane skills and knowledge) and have no tech they're weaker than normal starting characters, but that works out great because I've always felt starting characters were FAR too powerful in SR.
While we did all this I assembled a fairly diverse movie and television list that they should watch to get themselves into the mood. Things like Johnny Mnemonic, Leverage, Ronin, Dresden Files, etc. I tried to cover all the aspects of the game I could (though I'm still looking for something good to show native americans and shamanic magic), and hoped the shows like Leverage would get them into the proper mindset and not fall under the hack and slash medieval rpg mindset.
It's been pretty labor intensive, but it was a labor of love and we've had a GREAT time. They're just about to begin their first actual 'runs', and seem to have a great attitude about it all. I wouldn't expect anyone else to do all that, but I think it shows one way you can handle the problems you mention. As for the Seattle metroplex, you can always find pictures online to see it now. Then watch something like Blade Runner or other dystopian show set in a metro area to get some ideas there. Remember also that the entire world is in SR, not just Seattle. Nothing says you can't run from your hometown. In fact, my group is based in Longview WA because that's where most of us grew up. It's a blast to watch them discover it transformed to the new world.
We had our first session creating the characters AS the players. In other words we took each player (like my brother for instance), discussed what his attributes and skills would be if he were in the SR universe (he's a banker, a motorcycle enthusiast, a gambler, a budding musician, a woodworker, a martial arts practitioner, etc), and then shoehorned that all into a character using 80 build points +flaws-edges. I picked 80BP for two reasons: first, without choosing a metahuman race, magic, or resources it's simply not necessary to have more points for most people, and second it gave a 40+ point buffer to allow later training in SR specific skills, resources, or focused attribute training after exposing them to all the options. I chose to have them make themselves AS characters because it would give them a familiarity with how the mechanics translated to real world equivalents, and also intimate understanding of their characters so that they wouldn't have any difficulty behaving 'in-character'.
Next I wrote a short story describing how they (and others) were all at a party this coming December when suddenly a group of uniformed men stormed the house and began injecting everyone with sedatives, taking them prisoner. I provided numerous plot points and clues towards the overarching campaign as well. Then I had these men take everyone through a time portal into the SR universe (with the timeline modified a bit by readjusting everything 24 years...so for them 2074 is equivalent to 2050 in the books) where they were kept sedated and in special isolation to allow medical experimentation on humans not affected by the return of magic or the various diseases and organisms of the day. The story then told of their 'rescue' by two competing teams of runners, and how they were gradually taught about what had happened. The breaks in the story allowed me to slowly run them through training sessions, each aimed at showing them how a particular part of the game mechanics worked. So for instance, the physical adept in the runner group began a fitness program to overcome their degenerative atrophy from long stasis, which included hand to hand and melee combat. We would then play out simple training exercises using only those rules, allowing them to digest in small doses how the game was played. They were exposed to all forms of combat, magic, rigging, decking, investigation, socialization, entertainment, etc, all one at a time. Finally the story climaxed with an event that left the characters mostly on their own, with just the people they'd met as contacts, and the remainder of a mystery to be solved.
Doing this allowed me to show them all the options before they had to choose how to spend all their BPs. At this point they're given the remaining 40BP and allowed to place them any way that makes sense based on the training and resources provided to them in the story. Since they suddenly found themselves out of stasis in a magic rich, VITAS and UGE plagued world they could also logically choose to awaken or change to metahuman, or undergo other reasonable changes based on the events which had transpired. It also left them in a peculiar position: they had no identities which could be known...should the government or a corporation investigate them deeply enough it would become apparent that they were somehow from another time, and that would be the end of them. This gave them incentive to run the shadows, even moreso than solving the mystery of their arrival had. It also left them precious few resources (no cyber beyond datajacks, only a few simple bits of armor and a few weapons, etc), and so they had desperate need of creds. Since they had no official identities, couldn't fall under corporate scrutiny, and only knew shadowrunners, their only option was to become shadowrunners themselves. Because they had to spend so many of their starting points on things not normally used in the game (mundane skills and knowledge) and have no tech they're weaker than normal starting characters, but that works out great because I've always felt starting characters were FAR too powerful in SR.
While we did all this I assembled a fairly diverse movie and television list that they should watch to get themselves into the mood. Things like Johnny Mnemonic, Leverage, Ronin, Dresden Files, etc. I tried to cover all the aspects of the game I could (though I'm still looking for something good to show native americans and shamanic magic), and hoped the shows like Leverage would get them into the proper mindset and not fall under the hack and slash medieval rpg mindset.
It's been pretty labor intensive, but it was a labor of love and we've had a GREAT time. They're just about to begin their first actual 'runs', and seem to have a great attitude about it all. I wouldn't expect anyone else to do all that, but I think it shows one way you can handle the problems you mention. As for the Seattle metroplex, you can always find pictures online to see it now. Then watch something like Blade Runner or other dystopian show set in a metro area to get some ideas there. Remember also that the entire world is in SR, not just Seattle. Nothing says you can't run from your hometown. In fact, my group is based in Longview WA because that's where most of us grew up. It's a blast to watch them discover it transformed to the new world.
QUOTE (All4BigGuns @ Oct 17 2012, 10:05 AM)
Come on, enough people have to deal with being average or below and scraping by financially in their own life. Why game when your character has to deal with the same exact bulldrek you do? Might as well just stick with your own life entirely instead. So no, it isn't that fun to play the "in the gutter" style games; it's just a reminder of how much one's own life sucks because they have to deal with it in-game as well.
A 320BP DitG character is not going to have to put up with the same bulldrek you do. Unless you want to make the game OfficeWorkerRun, the character is still going to be a 'wared (or mojoed) up gun toting badass, it's just that he's probably gonna be more "gang lieutennant" level than "ex-Special Forces". Means the PC has less dakka and has to plan a lot more tactically than his 400BP equivalent.
Anyway, the OP has decided not to opt for a DitG game, so this is a bit of a moot point.
QUOTE (All4BigGuns @ Oct 17 2012, 08:26 PM)
Don't forget, the more limits you put on your players in character generation, the less fun they'll have once the game starts. The limits you're speaking of, tell me that they'll probably be bored and want to drop the game in a week--probably to get into a game where their characters can actually do something enjoyable.
I completely disagree with this assertion. You might get bored and drop the game in a week if you can't play an untouchable world beating superman who regularly saves the world/takes down an AAA three times before breakfast, but the OP's players might dig playing professionally competent company men who can't take down a squad of Red Samuair one handed. 'Player enjoyment' is a subjective thing, and the OP seems to be taking pains to ask us for advice to help him create a campaign that his players will enjoy.
Saying that, I agree that limiting cyber might not be the answer. In many ways 'ware is the major difference between SR and the Other Game, so letting the players have fun cybering their characters up might not be a bad thing. The OP wants the characters to have room to grow, so doing something like limiting them to 4 points worth of 'ware from their Essence of 6 at CharGen might be a better way to achieve this.
@Phoenix182
That kind of labour is one of the marks of a great GM, commendable effort
As for running out of our hometurf, unfortunately there is this prevailing opinion when it comes to modern/sci fi settings that Sweden is a rather dull place, I would tend to agree... It just tends to make people feel akward, not sure how much Asatrú cults or giants can alleviate that.
Would be nice to incorporate some of the other nordic mythology although... the one bot involving vikings
That kind of labour is one of the marks of a great GM, commendable effort
As for running out of our hometurf, unfortunately there is this prevailing opinion when it comes to modern/sci fi settings that Sweden is a rather dull place, I would tend to agree... It just tends to make people feel akward, not sure how much Asatrú cults or giants can alleviate that.
Would be nice to incorporate some of the other nordic mythology although... the one bot involving vikings
@Midas I actually like the limit BP in nuyen option for a couple of reasons.
1) more BP for skills and stuff
2) Since sugar dad corp supply them with tech, transport and guns they don't need as much
3) make people consider their belongings more 50BP worth of Nuyen is hard to wrap your head around, I know it was for me.
You sum alot of how I feel about it rather well, I would liken the 400BP no GM restrictions runner to about a 10-12th level D&D character, at this power level you're supposed to go toe to toe with small kingdoms.
With a scale like that it's hard to learn the subtler aspects and the challenges might seem daunting as hell for new players, Restrict the scale and you tighten the focus.
1) more BP for skills and stuff
2) Since sugar dad corp supply them with tech, transport and guns they don't need as much
3) make people consider their belongings more 50BP worth of Nuyen is hard to wrap your head around, I know it was for me.
You sum alot of how I feel about it rather well, I would liken the 400BP no GM restrictions runner to about a 10-12th level D&D character, at this power level you're supposed to go toe to toe with small kingdoms.
With a scale like that it's hard to learn the subtler aspects and the challenges might seem daunting as hell for new players, Restrict the scale and you tighten the focus.
Yes, if parent corp is going to provide them with a lot of the "toys" they will use, limiting starting BP allocation for resources to a degree is not unreasonable and will give them more BP for the other things you mentioned.
You might want to give them some idea of the sort of toys that the corp will be providing for them - I am sure that resources for any given operation may vary due to operation scope and budget, but for instance, should they allocate gear BP to buy things for themseles like armour, weapons, commlinks, fake SINs, vehicles and drones?
In some ways, buying gear is probably the hardest aspect of CharGen because there is so much small stuff that you can forget to buy, and allowing the players to avoid having to sweat the small stuff could also help streamline the process. Do try and make sure that they can buy a few pieces of choice 'ware though, they will thank you for it ...
You might want to give them some idea of the sort of toys that the corp will be providing for them - I am sure that resources for any given operation may vary due to operation scope and budget, but for instance, should they allocate gear BP to buy things for themseles like armour, weapons, commlinks, fake SINs, vehicles and drones?
In some ways, buying gear is probably the hardest aspect of CharGen because there is so much small stuff that you can forget to buy, and allowing the players to avoid having to sweat the small stuff could also help streamline the process. Do try and make sure that they can buy a few pieces of choice 'ware though, they will thank you for it ...
Double post
400 BP is a real mixed bag. If you are skilled at creating characters, you can make someone who is the best in the world - in a relatively small niche. Or someone who is very good at something, and passable at some other things. Or someone who can do a few things reasonably well (for a shadowrunner, meaning still better than most people). If you are less skilled at characters, you will make hyperspecialists with glaring omissions in their abilities and areas that they are crippled in, or a generalist whose skills are too spread out to actually be useful at anything, or a concept that doesn't (usually) work out in the context of the Shadowrun universe (a mundane, uncybered martial artist, for instance).
Open build systems don't neatly fall into a certain level of power. The most concrete thing that you can say about 400 BP is that it lets you create a very wide variety of concepts, but is still limited enough that you have to prioritize things, and make sacrifices, to make the character that you want (unless your concept is fairly limited).
400 BP is actually a good level for a low-powered campaign, if used in conjunction with other limits. If you limit magic, technomancy, and 'ware, you have really lopped off most of the out-of-the-starting-gate power right there. All 400 BP will do is let the characters get more skills and contacts to flesh out their characters - and that's a good thing, right?
Open build systems don't neatly fall into a certain level of power. The most concrete thing that you can say about 400 BP is that it lets you create a very wide variety of concepts, but is still limited enough that you have to prioritize things, and make sacrifices, to make the character that you want (unless your concept is fairly limited).
400 BP is actually a good level for a low-powered campaign, if used in conjunction with other limits. If you limit magic, technomancy, and 'ware, you have really lopped off most of the out-of-the-starting-gate power right there. All 400 BP will do is let the characters get more skills and contacts to flesh out their characters - and that's a good thing, right?
I prefer 750 karmagen as it gives a "little" more room for char concepts to take the front without losing to much "power" that being said the 1k karmagen with no free knowledge points or contacts if pretty fun, and when you play with players that are not all, (all here is used loosely) about powergaming and making broken chars. (thank god most of my friends enjoy only semi min/maxed char concepts) it leaves alot open. that being said. its probably better for newer players to with 400-450 BP considering what you want to do. its hard for me to use 400 BP now after using the 750 karmagen so much :/. here is my suggestion. give them 400 BP give or take 20 up to you. limit 30BP base for money. and 5 magic tops.
It sounds like he is having them start out with 25K maximum resources, and nothing but either latent qualities or the option to buy Magic/Resonance later. Which he says his players are used to - which they would be if they have played games where you start out as a first-level nobody. Personally, I think that is playing against one of the main strengths of the game - that you don't start out as a first level nobody.
QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Oct 19 2012, 09:47 AM)
@Midas I actually like the limit BP in nuyen option for a couple of reasons.
1) more BP for skills and stuff
2) Since sugar dad corp supply them with tech, transport and guns they don't need as much
3) make people consider their belongings more 50BP worth of Nuyen is hard to wrap your head around, I know it was for me.
You sum alot of how I feel about it rather well, I would liken the 400BP no GM restrictions runner to about a 10-12th level D&D character, at this power level you're supposed to go toe to toe with small kingdoms.
With a scale like that it's hard to learn the subtler aspects and the challenges might seem daunting as hell for new players, Restrict the scale and you tighten the focus.
1) more BP for skills and stuff
2) Since sugar dad corp supply them with tech, transport and guns they don't need as much
3) make people consider their belongings more 50BP worth of Nuyen is hard to wrap your head around, I know it was for me.
You sum alot of how I feel about it rather well, I would liken the 400BP no GM restrictions runner to about a 10-12th level D&D character, at this power level you're supposed to go toe to toe with small kingdoms.
With a scale like that it's hard to learn the subtler aspects and the challenges might seem daunting as hell for new players, Restrict the scale and you tighten the focus.
Tenth to twelfth level? Please. Maybe 5th or 6th, but you can't really DO that with a system like SR (or most systems nowadays since "class" based systems have been getting phased out--for good reason) because the "balance" is SUPPOSED to just be in giving the same number of points, rather than some arbitrary bulldrek.
QUOTE (Glyph @ Oct 21 2012, 05:55 AM)
It sounds like he is having them start out with 25K maximum resources, and nothing but either latent qualities or the option to buy Magic/Resonance later. Which he says his players are used to - which they would be if they have played games where you start out as a first-level nobody. Personally, I think that is playing against one of the main strengths of the game - that you don't start out as a first level nobody.
More like 75k-90k, close eye on Forbidden gear.
Probably only restrict magi in the way of "So how did you learn fireball anyway?", TMs are kinda BP starved at chargen as it is.
and the goal is to start them off as working proffessionals like the hacker archetype originally being a mid level sofware dev, or the sammy being security crew entrusted enough to BG a mid level manager.
So very much middle of the road rather then bottom of the barrel,
Expendable but competent.
Just as a sidenote.
I'm planning on supplying them with
Vehicles: A humvee, a sedan and two bikes
Weapons: Everything common place, Assault rifles yes, RPGs no
Armor: Nothing special like armor vests at most
Commlinks w. basic programs: around R3-4 in all, help hacker build his
Fake SINs: They're all be SINners, R4ish fake sin w. appriopriate licenses
1 month free medium lifestyle
Docwagon contract bound to fake SIN: either gold or plat.
Misc Shady gear: like an white noise generator perhaps...
A couple drones: only if they got a rigger
In short, they got the basics covered.
speaking of DnD andpathifinder... that makes me want to try putting the SR4 BP build overlay onto the class lvl system... hmm yes that would be cool... but such a daunting experiment..
hmmm, how would that work? I can see the skill system, but the classes have very specific abilities that would seem to bypass the concept of BP...unless you have each class have a static BP cost like the races in SR4.
QUOTE (Dolanar @ Oct 21 2012, 08:44 AM)
hmmm, how would that work? I can see the skill system, but the classes have very specific abilities that would seem to bypass the concept of BP...unless you have each class have a static BP cost like the races in SR4.
well just off the top of my head, races would be simple, classes tbh not sure how I will work it. either one free and the rest you have to pay BP/karma to gain access to. skills would be the equvilant of knowledge skills. and the class abilities would be like active skills. just a straight up, pay blank to get blank. feats would be... hmm. confusing lol. I think spells would have to be freebies. but it COULD work possibly.. just kind of a daunting task lol.
QUOTE (Raiden @ Oct 21 2012, 08:55 AM)
well just off the top of my head, races would be simple, classes tbh not sure how I will work it. either one free and the rest you have to pay BP/karma to gain access to. skills would be the equvilant of knowledge skills. and the class abilities would be like active skills. just a straight up, pay blank to get blank. feats would be... hmm. confusing lol. I think spells would have to be freebies. but it COULD work possibly.. just kind of a daunting task lol.
as for attributes, I would probably leave the about the same as is, when paying for them with the X number of points instead of rolls.
What about classes being akin to Mages, quality to unlock class features then BP spent to get them kinda like spells. Actually here's an idea what about physical class abilities worked like adept abilities keyed off that class primary stat. A simple example.
Rogue key ability agility or logic.
Sneak attack 1pp
As sneak attack 1d6 per point
Evasion 0,5 PP (can be taken twice)
and so on and so forth, obviously for a fighter you would treat bonus feats in the same way.
Rogue key ability agility or logic.
Sneak attack 1pp
As sneak attack 1d6 per point
Evasion 0,5 PP (can be taken twice)
and so on and so forth, obviously for a fighter you would treat bonus feats in the same way.
QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Oct 21 2012, 09:33 AM)
What about classes being akin to Mages, quality to unlock class features then BP spent to get them kinda like spells. Actually here's an idea what about physical class abilities worked like adept abilities keyed off that class primary stat. A simple example.
Rogue key ability agility or logic.
Sneak attack 1pp
As sneak attack 1d6 per point
Evasion 0,5 PP (can be taken twice)
and so on and so forth, obviously for a fighter you would treat bonus feats in the same way.
Rogue key ability agility or logic.
Sneak attack 1pp
As sneak attack 1d6 per point
Evasion 0,5 PP (can be taken twice)
and so on and so forth, obviously for a fighter you would treat bonus feats in the same way.
hm yeah that could work. though how would they go about obtaining the PP? mabye it would be simpler to just say, they are Blank BP/karma. wont be able t
to really work on this till after the quarter is over though :/
After chargen it would probably make sense to make it pure karma based. At chargen you could simply tie it to an attribute like dex or int for a rogue. Some casters would make sense as mystic adepts, like clerics
QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Oct 21 2012, 09:58 AM)
After chargen it would probably make sense to make it pure karma based. At chargen you could simply tie it to an attribute like dex or int for a rogue. Some casters would make sense as mystic adepts, like clerics
so based on the ATT they get so many PP for free right?
QUOTE (Raiden @ Oct 21 2012, 04:17 PM)
so based on the ATT they get so many PP for free right?
That's the idea, which might get crazy unless you do a stat conversion aswell.
18 free PP!
QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Oct 21 2012, 10:26 AM)
That's the idea, which might get crazy unless you do a stat conversion aswell.
18 free PP!
18 free PP!
would have to base it off the modifiers, IE 18= +4=4 PP
ok lemme run this real quick...
At character creation: you pick a Race, a Class, skills & a feat...now the problem I foresee is mix & matching classes in a custom manner, I pay for Fighter Feats, Rogue Sneak Attack & Inquisitor Bane....I'm looking like a freaking badass powerhouse... I'm getting sneak attack every 2 levels, Feats every 2 levels, & an extra 2d6 damage stacked onto every attack & can change it at will.
At character creation: you pick a Race, a Class, skills & a feat...now the problem I foresee is mix & matching classes in a custom manner, I pay for Fighter Feats, Rogue Sneak Attack & Inquisitor Bane....I'm looking like a freaking badass powerhouse... I'm getting sneak attack every 2 levels, Feats every 2 levels, & an extra 2d6 damage stacked onto every attack & can change it at will.
QUOTE (Dolanar @ Oct 22 2012, 01:13 AM)
ok lemme run this real quick...
At character creation: you pick a Race, a Class, skills & a feat...now the problem I foresee is mix & matching classes in a custom manner, I pay for Fighter Feats, Rogue Sneak Attack & Inquisitor Bane....I'm looking like a freaking badass powerhouse... I'm getting sneak attack every 2 levels, Feats every 2 levels, & an extra 2d6 damage stacked onto every attack & can change it at will.
At character creation: you pick a Race, a Class, skills & a feat...now the problem I foresee is mix & matching classes in a custom manner, I pay for Fighter Feats, Rogue Sneak Attack & Inquisitor Bane....I'm looking like a freaking badass powerhouse... I'm getting sneak attack every 2 levels, Feats every 2 levels, & an extra 2d6 damage stacked onto every attack & can change it at will.
no, you see the concept would be you dont level up, you would have to BUY those skills. otherwise, it would get ridiculous. you buy your race, you buy your stats, then you pick a class for free, (2 or more would cost) then any of your class abilities you can purchase, I may say you MUST buy ranks in things such as sneak attack, or I might just say each level costs Blank BP. thats the general concept. multi classing would be, pay for the extra class, then buy that classes skills that you wish. (this COULD cause some problems) but like I said, this is just the idea i HAVE atm, I havent sat down to do anything with it yet
well if you are changing the entire level building dynamic, why not change the stat system while you're at it.?
QUOTE (Dolanar @ Oct 22 2012, 01:46 AM)
well if you are changing the entire level building dynamic, why not change the stat system while you're at it.?
the idea was to bring the SR the system over to it. and use it to negate the level up system. not to just overhaul all of it
yes, but d20 style attributes will not translate easily in SR4
QUOTE (Dolanar @ Oct 22 2012, 07:16 AM)
yes, but d20 style attributes will not translate easily in SR4
the modifiers will transfer easily enough, as they would be basiclly 1-5
lol, higher level games with Twinkers would hit more into the +10 range but even thats not too unreasonable by SR standards, so I'd suggest just relegating everything down to those & ignore the actual stats.
QUOTE (Dolanar @ Oct 22 2012, 10:33 AM)
lol, higher level games with Twinkers would hit more into the +10 range but even thats not too unreasonable by SR standards, so I'd suggest just relegating everything down to those & ignore the actual stats.
actually be SR standards and the way it may work it makes those huge stats less broken. Ill post the whole thing after I have done a rough outline, course this will probably be like a christmas treat for peoples. since I dont have time to do that much in depth stuff during college
Not that I mind the hijacking, But we should probably should start a new topic for the whole D20 conversion discussion. To get more people involved and having the label on the tin reflect the content
possibly, I had not intended for it to take up so many posts in here lol.
Tis an interesting idea
This thread kinda served it's purpose already anyway
This thread kinda served it's purpose already anyway
the thread is up, hope it stays active lol
How to ease players into a runners mindset... you need a black van with tinted windows and a satellite dish on the roof. Park it across the street from their house for a few days. go and rummage through their garbage while they're out.
That should get them paranoid enough to begin touching on Runner levels.
That should get them paranoid enough to begin touching on Runner levels.
Strip their hair brushes while their gone, and leave a curious ritual circle in your kitchen for them to find...
QUOTE (Byrel @ Oct 23 2012, 06:11 PM)
Strip their hair brushes while their gone, and leave a curious ritual circle in your kitchen for them to find...
Hey that's me as a teenager :o
Oh yes, it's finally happening!!!
After several years I get to dive into the shadows once more!
Here's the plan currently.
They're "Off the record" assets for a company who's an subsidiary of Evo, I'm thinking of calling them ABACAB if I can figure out a clever meaning for the abbreviation (Cookie for getting the reference).
They mostly deal with Ware and have an extensive R&D department, including a magical section dedicated to cracking the whole nut of "holistic integrity".
The players work dayshift on different branches of the company (this consequently mean they have lives, family and friends to worry about) and irregularly receives objectives of a delicate nature to a physical dropbox.
Once briefed they have an assigned safehouse hidden in a warehouse district, containing the various essentials they will need and a weathered old black man they only know as 'Otto'.
Otto serve as their guiding hand with his years of experience in god knows what and also serve as the mechanic/stand-in fixer for the group.
I'm gonna work under the assumption that they had one or two briefs beforehand and still isn't quite wet behind their ears.
The first mission is simple.
The company is buying information from a scientist of a rival company.
Being a first time sell out the scientist wants insurance that he's safe. The players need to
• Find out if someone is on his trail
• Find out if he's playing fair, no bad data or double dipping
• Report back their finds
What they actually find is up to how the players handle their legwork, the basic assumption is that he's tapped but not actively 'investigated' and he's playing fair but is scared shitless, thus prone to stupid decisions.
The second set of objectives involves killing of the trail and making sure the trade go through. Depending on how this goes it might be simple courier to extraction to wetwork
The data is intended to start up a bigger plot including Ares and bugs!
Thoughts? suggestions? concerns?
After several years I get to dive into the shadows once more!
Here's the plan currently.
They're "Off the record" assets for a company who's an subsidiary of Evo, I'm thinking of calling them ABACAB if I can figure out a clever meaning for the abbreviation (Cookie for getting the reference).
They mostly deal with Ware and have an extensive R&D department, including a magical section dedicated to cracking the whole nut of "holistic integrity".
The players work dayshift on different branches of the company (this consequently mean they have lives, family and friends to worry about) and irregularly receives objectives of a delicate nature to a physical dropbox.
Once briefed they have an assigned safehouse hidden in a warehouse district, containing the various essentials they will need and a weathered old black man they only know as 'Otto'.
Otto serve as their guiding hand with his years of experience in god knows what and also serve as the mechanic/stand-in fixer for the group.
I'm gonna work under the assumption that they had one or two briefs beforehand and still isn't quite wet behind their ears.
The first mission is simple.
The company is buying information from a scientist of a rival company.
Being a first time sell out the scientist wants insurance that he's safe. The players need to
• Find out if someone is on his trail
• Find out if he's playing fair, no bad data or double dipping
• Report back their finds
What they actually find is up to how the players handle their legwork, the basic assumption is that he's tapped but not actively 'investigated' and he's playing fair but is scared shitless, thus prone to stupid decisions.
The second set of objectives involves killing of the trail and making sure the trade go through. Depending on how this goes it might be simple courier to extraction to wetwork
The data is intended to start up a bigger plot including Ares and bugs!
Thoughts? suggestions? concerns?
My thoughts on this topic are a little different. I'm not going to limit my players choices in how they want to build, but I have a built in control, of sorts. We're continuing in the same world another friend started with. One of the characters in that game basically ran a commune in a Z zone. The player moved away, but I'm keeping the character as an npc.
Most of the characters will start as residents of the commune, or have close ties to it. This will allow me to smack them down if they start heading in a direction I don't want to go. Of course, this being Shadowrun, I've got to give them a certain leeway with regard to crime, but I know there will be a point that if they blatantly cross it, Gehenna will boot them and blackball them, making them fodder for any and every badass out there to have their way with them.
I think of her as my security blanket. Just a thought.
Most of the characters will start as residents of the commune, or have close ties to it. This will allow me to smack them down if they start heading in a direction I don't want to go. Of course, this being Shadowrun, I've got to give them a certain leeway with regard to crime, but I know there will be a point that if they blatantly cross it, Gehenna will boot them and blackball them, making them fodder for any and every badass out there to have their way with them.
I think of her as my security blanket. Just a thought.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.