I just got finished reading the Street Legends Supplemental (love it, btw), and naturally I found myself reading Harlequin's section. Lot'sa neat stuff, but one thing in particular caught my eye. Gwynplaine, Harlequin's spirit lookalike. For the most part to me it was just a cool extra thrown in there until I read this line,

''It also tends to gravitate towards places of technology in decay''

And that got me thinking.

My interest in Shadowrun was sparked as a young boy, the Shadowrun SNES game was one of the first games I ever owned and I loved it. It also has one of my favorite antagonists of all time: The Jester Spirit. So thats where I'm wondering if there's a connection between the two (obviously not an in-universe connection)

Gwynplaine, though a spirit, has the appearance of Harlequin (with a few changes), clown make-up and all I suppose. The Jester Spirit.. well, is a spirit that looks like a jester (with mad juggling skillz), and it appears as though he has pointy elven ears. He also has the painted-diamond over at least one of his eyes. Both are tricksters and psychopaths. Gwynplaine hangs out in places of 'technology in decay', while the Jester Spirit is said to be a spirit 'of technology in decay'.

So I guess I'm wondering if this was all intentional or coincidental, or if I'm just reading into it too much. Admittedly I don't know much about Harlequin or Gwynplaine, at least not in terms of history and previous editions. Was the spirit around in earlier editions, in his tamed form? Is it possible the Gwynplaine inspired the Jester Spirit, or vice versa? Any thoughts, comments, or facts appreciated.

Well consider the following
Harl is a very capable magician.
He often use aliases, or mislead people on his true identity.
He likes to mess with peoples heads.

Who is to say that they're not all one and the same?

That's just my inane ramblings although, Im sure there's some old dragon here somwhere that can tell the odds from the ends and slap me for not checking...

I suppose anything is possible. I know Harlequin is stupid powerful, but could he really have the capability of becoming or looking like a spirit? I guess it's all good with a well-placed illusion spell and some awesome masking-type metamagic. It would seem a bit OOC to me though for the joker, such an aloof fellow running around in ''disguise'' and telling people to just go and off as many elves as they want.

Not familiar with these two fellows, so I can't speak for their agenda...
Harl however doesn't play nice with the other IE's and have a habit of making wickedly elaborate schemes that only he knows the purpose off...

I need to stop talking before AH pops out from somewhere and melts my face...

Well, Harlequin (as can Ehran, IIRC) can rip a hole into Astral Space and physically step thorugh it to transport himself like a spirit does. *shrug* To the Unaware, that probably appears as a Spirit to them.

Oh wow.
Now that's a useful ability.
If only the megas would hurry up with the immortality so I can get 24+ initiation.

Oh it's easier then that you just need to gain access to magic from the first or second world... Shouldn't be to hard...

And the Horror waiting on the other side when you do it

You'll have enough trouble from the GD or IE you stole it from

Oh, is that all I need to do?
Bloody Dragons and Immortals. Part of me likes the mystery surrounding all the crazy stuff they can do that ''shouldn't be possible''. My more curious side wants to know everything so I can rule the world. A love-hate relationship with the reptiles and the fairies.


I wonder if the person who wrote that section would know of any possible inspiration (Edit: Well, of course they know.. just wondering if they're willing to share. :3 Not sure who wrote it, don't keep up with that stuff. If its even public knowledge, which I'm wagering it isn't)

There used to be a page with all the juicy goodness about all of the known IE's and GD's, about all of the old world stuff that the average runner doesn't even know exist... Not sure if its still around

I would be very interested in that.

Does anyone know if Gwynplaine was in previous editions of Shadowrun? His ''profile'' in Street Legends Supplemental says that he was created/bound by Harlequin during the 18th century, but only very recently (old spoilers: as a result of the closing of the Rift and Harlequin's ''forgetting'' of the true name) became a free and malicious spirit. Before 4th edition, I did have some 3E books, but really only the core material and I don't recall there being a whole bunch of information of Harlequin in the documents I owned. If the spirit was in previous editions, or may -possibly- be in older editions, anyone have a guess (or straight up know) which books those would be in?

Of course, any quotes by current owners of the said potential material would be greatly appreciated as well

You're thinking of Ancient History's website. He took it down last year after leaving Catalyst.

Someone around here has a link in their sig to a mirror, if you want.

AH took down his website?!?!
NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Guess I've been out of the loop too long. I loved AH's site. In fact, though I don't remember exactly how, his website was what eventually brought me to find Dumpshock.

Ask, and ye shall receive
Someone made a mirror
http://danvolodar.ru/ancientfiles/index.html

Beautiful!
Thank ya, kind bannockburn!

I must bookmark this and hope it doesn't get taken down as well. <.<

I love you Bannock, AH was with Catalyst? That explains how he knows like everything

I don't remember Gwynplaine being in any early stuff, but I stopped playing back around when SR3 came out, maybe before.

Added the link to my sig, Tis a resource that deserves recognition.

Bobby knew most of that before his freelancr gig with CGL.

Where did Ehran pull off that stunt? I only remember Harley doing it in House of the Sun during the Ghost Dance-ish ritual...which probably allowed some stuff not normally possible at the current mana level...

I want to say the Harlequin Adventure (the First one), but I am not sure.

I remember Harlequin disappearing in some magical puff of smoke and light (sounding more like a harlequin's stage act than ancient magics)...have to re-read the book when I find it.

Harles did that stunt in House of the Sun, in the climatic battle with the spirits on Mauna Loa. Also, someone does that in Worlds without End, if I am not mistaken.

Not sure about Erhan. Might be H1.

Formula Pact. Leonization + Physical Vigor.

I had a question regarding Harlequin and Ehran for that matter for anyone who might know the answer, why are both of them magicians instead of mystic adepts? Based on their Earthdawn personas I would have assumed they would be mystic adepts. If anyone knows the reasoning behind making them magicians instead I would love to hear it.

Because multiple disciplines in ED do not translate into Mystic Adept in SR

While I realize they don't "have" to, it always seemed like a good way to model it to me.

No astral projection for mystic adepts, though.
The old path of the wheel fits much more closely, IMO

None of the Magic Disciplines seemed to have Astral Projection anyway. Are you talking about the Path of the Wheel in 2nd Edition SR or in all of the Earthdawn Editions. Yes the old Path of the Wheel in SR seemed to come close to covering it, but mechanically speaking in ED it was really simply a way to multi discipline. Be the tricked out Phys Adept and cast Spells. The only thing that really covers that in the game is the Mystic Adept.

And I politely disagree with your opinion
Yes, I mean the SR path of the wheel stuff, particularly the rumors of someone who completed the wheel. It's fluff, of course, but IEs aren't much else, after all. It was a mistake to assign numbers to plot device NPCs, in my opinion, but that's where we are now. Still, there's been precedence, so I guess to each his own. Generally, I've never needed any rolls when using NPCs of this kind (and I've run Harlekin about a dozen times, estimated *g*)

There _was_ astral projection in ED, though. It just wasn't as widely available as it is in SR, and it was much more dangerous, iirc. For me, it would feel wrong, to have these powerful magic beings and them not being able to use all tricks in the book

I think you are confusing Astral Sight with Projection in ED. The only Discipline with any "Astral" entry ability was the Nethermancer via Netherwalk, and for those rare few who became Lightbearers of asignificant enough rank who could essentially create an astral gateway. Regardless I agree they really should have left them undefined.

I don't remember Gwynplaine before Street Legends Supplemental, and I a) have a lot of books, and b) really love Harlequin as a character. I think he might be new.

Having gotten into Shadowrun through the SNES game in the early 90s, I also really like the idea of Gwynplaine being (OOC) inspired by the Jester Spirit, and actually think a Jester Spirit plotline using Gwynplaine instead could be a very cool addition to the game I GM.

Looked it up, Ehran does indeed pull the same vanishing act as Harley...

Actually, Astral Projection and Astral Sight does immediately attract horrors and hence lead to be mark. That's why there's no projection in the game. You could only "assense" the surrounding if you were windling for exemple.

You spellcasted through matrixes because raw spellcasting could also attract horrors.


So technically, Ehran and Harlequin could have been multiple disciplines. At least it's how I see it.

But of course, you can't exactely transpose one characters ability in another system. Each have their own paradygms.


E.G.: An ED character casts a spell in, roughly 10-15 secs (as far as I remember). A SR character could cast 1, maybe 2 in 3 secs!
Physical stunts of adepts in ED are way way more powerfull than in SR.

I guess you HAVE to adapt IE depending on the setting.

No actually what usually got you marked was using Raw Magic (which is what SR uses). Astral Sight woudl not get you marked, but travelling on the Astral (which had very few options) would almost always nail you.



Not just that the corrupted astral space would usually cause damage to you anyway, even without a horror noticing you.




Harlequin at least did have multiple disciplines, Swordmaster and Wizard.



No you can't. The problem being though that Swordmaster is one of the overtly combat oriented disciplines that is hard to model without Physical Adept powers.




Which is why in my in my SR I was forced to modify some characters, and twist some rules in one instance when I was running a game where there were regular interactions with individuals of that power level. The plot device you can't touch when your players are supposed to be playing characters capable of almost being plot devices themselves just rubs me wrong. It worked for the game.

I may be wrong, but I was rather sure that assessing wasn't the same as perception. You got a feeling for the aura but didn't look right into the astral space.

You have three methods Astral Sense (Spell) whihc is kind of like looking at Astral Space with a filter, Astral Sight which is full blown you see astral space much like Astral Perception in SR, and then you have Thread Sight which limits it to very specific items, or even named spells (basically you can see foci and quickened spells).

Then, where do you actually disagree with me? Only on the "Astral sight might mark you" part?

Just on that. There is no mechanic for it. Raw Magic actually has mechanics to support getting marked. If you are in a Corrupt area the guy in the back carrying the extra gear is just as likely a candidate for being marked as the hero in front using an astrally active talent.

What can adept powers actually do that magicians can't reasonably imitate? Not what adepts do better, but just what unique things from adepts are "missing" from our favorite IEs?

Well maybe tough spell sustain just limits you way more.


But if you compare adepts in ED vs SR, ED ones are way more powerfull. That's also because ED is a high fantasy setting, way more heroic.

Adept Powers in Shadowrun cannot be dispelled, or disrupted by Wards. Can you duplicate their abilities with a spell? Sure in most cases by RAW I guess you could. Of course sustaining all of them would be a real mess. How about Quickening? Expensive and unreliable.

Adept Powers in ED can be dispelled, but you dont have to worry about wards. Spells have predefined durations, so you could cast a bunch and leave them up, problem is they dont duplicate Adept Powers, adept powers are unique.

While realizing the two games are separate mechanically and licensed by different entities, I still look to make the fluff at least blend between them to a degree. When I balance everything out being an Adept in SR seems much cooler if many of the abilities are Unique. So in my SR the can I duplicate Adept Powers with Spells is a little more nebulous, and while I realize that is my choice, having a shit ton of Quickened Spells getting popped by a ward a dropping my IE self to being completely unboosted, just does not sound paranoid enough to me.

Wards only Pop a spell if the spell loses the roll against the Ward (Spells roll against Wards. If the Spell wins, it passes thorugh the Ward and alerts the Ward User, if the Ward Wins, the spell goes down; Extended Masking and Quickening can affect this roll). There is also the idea that extended Masking can bring a spell through a ward intact without alerting the Ward/Caster at all. Someone of Harlequin's ability probably does not worry too much about Wards. *shrug*

Considering some of the places he has been popping into lately, I think he needs to worry more about wards than the common runner. The thing that amuses me is that in a lot of respects Magician is considered the dominant Magical type because of background cost. Lets not forget in the last three editions the Mystic Adept/Physical Magician/Magician Adept were also Priority A picks. The BP drop is simply because it is recognized to be a much slower developing character type.

Why? He is of such a power level that it is mostly a moot point.

Agreed. I do prefer the Mystic Adept over a Full Magician, personally. Rarely do I ever actually make a Full Mage anymore. And the slower developmewnt does not bother me all that much, since it fits the way I develop characters anyways.

Dropping by to talk smack with Ghostwalker does not make it a moot point, unless you allow Extended Masking to make it a moot point. I'm just saying as written he leaves somehting to be desired.



I find the Mystic Adept covers more concepts than the Magician does without stretching the framework. There is a karma tax for getting what you want, which in my mind makes it ideal. I get to have my cake, and eat it.

Anyway back to the OP, I don't know if Gwynplaine is just a spirit. He might very well be Vestrial for the sixth world, wierder things have happened.

To answer another question: Until Street Legends Supplemental, he didn't exist. I'm fairly certain that Devon came up with him out of whole cloth to give Harlequi something else to worry about, and GM's yet another something to throw at their players if they want to play at that level.

Neat. I think it was a nice tie in with... what piece of fiction was it where Harlequin was drunk and talking to something that no one was quite sure what it was, though many speculated it was Vestrial. I just thought this took the idea and kind of ran with it.