One of my players has decided to take over for a few sessions to do a Run, and I have to decide between 2 characters as Ive narrowed my play choices, but I am having trouble wrapping my head around the mechanics of the TacNet and how the TacSoft works crunch-wise.
[Availability 21, 12300Y] Tactical Software 4, Ergonomic
So I know I need 5 other people for it to work, but do they have to ALSO purchase the Tacsoft and install it? or is there another way?
I have 3 drones, do I need to buy the program multiple times for each drone?
Full Version: TacSoft Questions and TacNets, how do they work?
Two ways it can work. Distributed network (everyone has the software) or centralized network (one person has it and everyone else is slaved and subscribed to his commlink). Either can work. The only other requirements are that everyone else has a simrig so their sense channels can be picked up or else have cybernetic senses contributing, that each member contribute Tacsoft rating x2 channels (senses) and that there is Tacsoft rating +2 participants in the tacnet. This means for rating 4 you need 6 people or drones or some combo of there of.
For drones you need to make sure they have enough onboard sensors to contribute to the network. Some say this means you need to have a sensor rating equal to the network, making rating 4 useless with drones. Others say the drone can use things like camera vision enhancements to make up the channels just as a person can. The actually intention of the rules is a little ambiguous. Choose whichever you and GM prefer.
For drones you need to make sure they have enough onboard sensors to contribute to the network. Some say this means you need to have a sensor rating equal to the network, making rating 4 useless with drones. Others say the drone can use things like camera vision enhancements to make up the channels just as a person can. The actually intention of the rules is a little ambiguous. Choose whichever you and GM prefer.
For who has to have the tacsoft - I think there are two options (but I'm away from the books at the moment):
1. Everyone involved in the tacnet runs their own tacsoft, so their bonus is limited by the rating of their respective tacsoft.
2. You have one person running the tacnet from their own tacsoft, like a master hub for the tacnet. Everyone involved in the tacnet gets the bonus of the hub tacsoft (the book says the downside to this is that there's a single point of failure/hackability for the tacnet)
So for your drones, if you wanted you can only buy one copy of the tacsoft, but then if something happens to that one copy the whole tacnet goes down.
Oh, and I could be wrong, but to get the full benefit of Tacsoft 4, I think you need 6 participants. A tacnet needs (rating - 2) participants, IIRC.
*edit* damn your ninja skillz, Mantis! *shakes fist*
1. Everyone involved in the tacnet runs their own tacsoft, so their bonus is limited by the rating of their respective tacsoft.
2. You have one person running the tacnet from their own tacsoft, like a master hub for the tacnet. Everyone involved in the tacnet gets the bonus of the hub tacsoft (the book says the downside to this is that there's a single point of failure/hackability for the tacnet)
So for your drones, if you wanted you can only buy one copy of the tacsoft, but then if something happens to that one copy the whole tacnet goes down.
Oh, and I could be wrong, but to get the full benefit of Tacsoft 4, I think you need 6 participants. A tacnet needs (rating - 2) participants, IIRC.
*edit* damn your ninja skillz, Mantis! *shakes fist*
Have you never seen a mantis take it's prey? Ninjas are slow in comparison.
Of course I've never seen a mantis take it's prey! If they're faster than ninjas, that's too fast for the augmented eye to follow
Awesome, guys thank you for the quick responses. So If I am in a group with 7 other people (big group, but not everyone there is always present) total of 8 players, with Sim Rigs, and my three drones linked as well.
Assuming im using the centralized hub idea, as that seems easiest for now, what would the bonus be then? or whats the max? based off my TacSoft rating? Just want to make sure im crossing my T's and dotting my I's when I present this to the group.
Assuming im using the centralized hub idea, as that seems easiest for now, what would the bonus be then? or whats the max? based off my TacSoft rating? Just want to make sure im crossing my T's and dotting my I's when I present this to the group.
You'll also wanna run the benefits by the GM, many GM's will limit the benefits of the Tacnet based on situations because the Tacnet can be pretty powerful if left completely untouched.
Max bonus is always the lowest Tacsoft rating. In your case it would be +4 dice (rating of software). I'll second Dolanar on running the exact bonuses past the GM. Personally though, I let folks use most of the bonuses listed in the software description cuz whats a few dice between friends.
QUOTE (Mantis @ Jan 29 2013, 04:42 AM) 
Max bonus is always the lowest Tacsoft rating. In your case it would be +4 dice (rating of software). I'll second Dolanar on running the exact bonuses past the GM. Personally though, I let folks use most of the bonuses listed in the software description cuz whats a few dice between friends.
Of course, I just wanted to make sure I was using the rules right, I am one of the GM's as I started the game, but the group is having problems actually working together as a well-oiled team, so I wanted to give some incentives as a player/GM that might get them considering to be a group rather than Lonewolves.
By the rulebook... the highest rating tacnet a drone can participate in is a 3. A loss of 1 off the highest rating for the ability to easily flood your network with extra metal bodies... not a huge problem.
Also as others have said it's critically important you run the rulebook past the GM to find out what kinds of bonuses he'll let fly. The rules on their bonuses are rather nebulous and give a big list of things the tacnet *MIGHT* (not *WILL*) give bonuses to depending on the GM. Many GM's don't like how nebulous they are and balk at a 4 reaction character suddenly doubling his defense pool to rival the street sam just for running some cheap software (yes cheap.. a 10k software split cost between 6 chars or so...). Others take the view that smartlink already does this and is a +2... One group here for example... tacnets function more as a perception and initiative boost, or for spotting information guided attacks... and don't directly help gunnery or defense pools.
If running as a central server... the other nodes only need to subscribe to you. They don't need to be slaved as someone mentioned above. Though this isn't uncommon if the central server is also the groups primary decker. Slaving eats up a subscription, and subscribing the tacnet eats up a subscription... (plus whatever subscriptions you're using to get your own sensor feed contribution)... so this isn't as clean cut as it sounds unless you have a rediculously large number of subscriptions or are running on something like a nexus. A stock rating 6 commlink will only be able to handle 12 subscriptions.
Also as others have said it's critically important you run the rulebook past the GM to find out what kinds of bonuses he'll let fly. The rules on their bonuses are rather nebulous and give a big list of things the tacnet *MIGHT* (not *WILL*) give bonuses to depending on the GM. Many GM's don't like how nebulous they are and balk at a 4 reaction character suddenly doubling his defense pool to rival the street sam just for running some cheap software (yes cheap.. a 10k software split cost between 6 chars or so...). Others take the view that smartlink already does this and is a +2... One group here for example... tacnets function more as a perception and initiative boost, or for spotting information guided attacks... and don't directly help gunnery or defense pools.
If running as a central server... the other nodes only need to subscribe to you. They don't need to be slaved as someone mentioned above. Though this isn't uncommon if the central server is also the groups primary decker. Slaving eats up a subscription, and subscribing the tacnet eats up a subscription... (plus whatever subscriptions you're using to get your own sensor feed contribution)... so this isn't as clean cut as it sounds unless you have a rediculously large number of subscriptions or are running on something like a nexus. A stock rating 6 commlink will only be able to handle 12 subscriptions.
QUOTE (Falconer @ Jan 29 2013, 09:28 AM)
By the rulebook... the highest rating tacnet a drone can participate in is a 3. A loss of 1 off the highest rating for the ability to easily flood your network with extra metal bodies... not a huge problem.
Also as others have said it's critically important you run the rulebook past the GM to find out what kinds of bonuses he'll let fly. The rules on their bonuses are rather nebulous and give a big list of things the tacnet *MIGHT* (not *WILL*) give bonuses to depending on the GM. Many GM's don't like how nebulous they are and balk at a 4 reaction character suddenly doubling his defense pool to rival the street sam just for running some cheap software (yes cheap.. a 10k software split cost between 6 chars or so...). Others take the view that smartlink already does this and is a +2... One group here for example... tacnets function more as a perception and initiative boost, or for spotting information guided attacks... and don't directly help gunnery or defense pools.
If running as a central server... the other nodes only need to subscribe to you. They don't need to be slaved as someone mentioned above. Though this isn't uncommon if the central server is also the groups primary decker. Slaving eats up a subscription, and subscribing the tacnet eats up a subscription... (plus whatever subscriptions you're using to get your own sensor feed contribution)... so this isn't as clean cut as it sounds unless you have a rediculously large number of subscriptions or are running on something like a nexus. A stock rating 6 commlink will only be able to handle 12 subscriptions.
Also as others have said it's critically important you run the rulebook past the GM to find out what kinds of bonuses he'll let fly. The rules on their bonuses are rather nebulous and give a big list of things the tacnet *MIGHT* (not *WILL*) give bonuses to depending on the GM. Many GM's don't like how nebulous they are and balk at a 4 reaction character suddenly doubling his defense pool to rival the street sam just for running some cheap software (yes cheap.. a 10k software split cost between 6 chars or so...). Others take the view that smartlink already does this and is a +2... One group here for example... tacnets function more as a perception and initiative boost, or for spotting information guided attacks... and don't directly help gunnery or defense pools.
If running as a central server... the other nodes only need to subscribe to you. They don't need to be slaved as someone mentioned above. Though this isn't uncommon if the central server is also the groups primary decker. Slaving eats up a subscription, and subscribing the tacnet eats up a subscription... (plus whatever subscriptions you're using to get your own sensor feed contribution)... so this isn't as clean cut as it sounds unless you have a rediculously large number of subscriptions or are running on something like a nexus. A stock rating 6 commlink will only be able to handle 12 subscriptions.
On the first point, where exactly is that quote? Unwired does not state that a drone can only participate in a rating 3 tacnet, unless you are extrapolating off of...
QUOTE
Sensor Systems: Data acquired from worn, carried,
or mounted sensor systems of various types (cameras, microphones,
range finders, motion sensors, etc.) may also be
contributed to the network as a sensor channel. Drones sensor
systems also count; each drone can supply a number of sensor
channels equal to its Sensor rating
or mounted sensor systems of various types (cameras, microphones,
range finders, motion sensors, etc.) may also be
contributed to the network as a sensor channel. Drones sensor
systems also count; each drone can supply a number of sensor
channels equal to its Sensor rating
But the issue here is the listing of mounted sensors, which would imply that a drone gets sensors system rating + mounted sensors to add to the tacnet.
How do you figure said REA 4 hacker is suddenly doubling his dice pool for defense? That isn't listed as a bonus. Dodge and Melee defense tests are. Meaning the tacnet is adding to your dodge or close combat skill. As for initiative, given that both are optional rules only, you either get a +1 initiative for using DNI or receive your tacnet bonus but forgo the other tacnet bonuses for that round.
Also, run a separate commlink just for tacsoft, problem solved. At least for the hacker and a TM who threads it has an unlimited subscription size anyway. (Possibly misinformation, did not check prior to statement).
Mind you, I'm not trying to judge how you use the rules, but some of that is not what the book has as written.
Incorrect... the book very explicitly states.
"Each Drone can supply a number of sensor channels to the tacnet equal to it's sensor rating."
Since rating 6 is the maximum drone sensor rating... then rating 3 is the maximum rating of a tacnet with drone participants.
Even if the drone is wearing more sensors... or it's built-in sensor suite includes more than its sensor rating in channels. It CAN only contribute up to to that number of channels.
NB: it uses the word DRONE and can (as in... is capable of)... not full vehicle. Larger vehicles such as cars and and up are not subject to this limitation. So the riggers battle van could send all 12 sensors if it so desired. Drones are limited to their sensor rating in channels and no more even if they have more elgible sensor channels. And then only if it actually has that many sensor channels to feed. (if the drone has a single large sensor like a radar it might not have a full compliment of 6).
As for the rest... you're arguing semantics.
If the rigger is tossing 8 dice on personal defense just like the street sam was before (at a cost of 10's or 100's of nuyen and essence in augmentations). Then yes the benefit is out of line. The only thing that matters is the size of the pool.
This is listed as a possible benefit the GM might use. So if your GM allows this kind of blatant dice pool inflation for everyone... more power to him. But the book does not list this as a guaranteed benefit. It lists it as one possible thing the tacnet *MIGHT* do.
Exact quote:
"Here are some example tests in which tacnet bonuses *MIGHT* apply:"
laundry list of things... close combat, dodge, firearms... those are the 3 most questionable from a balance perspective... all the rest are pretty good examples of information is power.
The rules for tacnets unfortunately are a nebulous mess with a much larger element of GM discretion than most equipment/software. Which is why it's absolutely critical that players discuss them with their GM's and not come to a rules forum like this and expect gospel.
I'm not going to get into a drawn out argument... merely caution the original poster that his question and it's answers here are all subject to *HIS* GM's interpretation of the text. His GM my play it a multitude of different ways without house ruling anything merely by how he interprets the key bits of it all.
"Each Drone can supply a number of sensor channels to the tacnet equal to it's sensor rating."
Since rating 6 is the maximum drone sensor rating... then rating 3 is the maximum rating of a tacnet with drone participants.
Even if the drone is wearing more sensors... or it's built-in sensor suite includes more than its sensor rating in channels. It CAN only contribute up to to that number of channels.
NB: it uses the word DRONE and can (as in... is capable of)... not full vehicle. Larger vehicles such as cars and and up are not subject to this limitation. So the riggers battle van could send all 12 sensors if it so desired. Drones are limited to their sensor rating in channels and no more even if they have more elgible sensor channels. And then only if it actually has that many sensor channels to feed. (if the drone has a single large sensor like a radar it might not have a full compliment of 6).
As for the rest... you're arguing semantics.
If the rigger is tossing 8 dice on personal defense just like the street sam was before (at a cost of 10's or 100's of nuyen and essence in augmentations). Then yes the benefit is out of line. The only thing that matters is the size of the pool.
This is listed as a possible benefit the GM might use. So if your GM allows this kind of blatant dice pool inflation for everyone... more power to him. But the book does not list this as a guaranteed benefit. It lists it as one possible thing the tacnet *MIGHT* do.
Exact quote:
"Here are some example tests in which tacnet bonuses *MIGHT* apply:"
laundry list of things... close combat, dodge, firearms... those are the 3 most questionable from a balance perspective... all the rest are pretty good examples of information is power.
The rules for tacnets unfortunately are a nebulous mess with a much larger element of GM discretion than most equipment/software. Which is why it's absolutely critical that players discuss them with their GM's and not come to a rules forum like this and expect gospel.
I'm not going to get into a drawn out argument... merely caution the original poster that his question and it's answers here are all subject to *HIS* GM's interpretation of the text. His GM my play it a multitude of different ways without house ruling anything merely by how he interprets the key bits of it all.
I hear what you're saying, it's the first part of the book quote that gets me. "Drones sensor systems also count;". You're focused on the second part while I'm still looking at the first. Obviously not as clear as it was meant to be when written. To me, it implies that a drone's sensor systems act like natural senses to humans. For example, we can apply our five natural senses. I suppose more importantly with the wording, it doesn't state that it only applies its sensor rating.
I totally understand where you're coming from with the balance standpoint and it really lacks a lot of hard rules outside of needing X + 2 networked devices with X*2 channels to get X bonus. Where and when bonuses apply and to what they apply is left fairly vague. Although allowing it give a straight defense pool bonus feels a bit strange. It can't make you react to being shot at any faster. In the case of actively dodging, I understand it applying a bonus based on information being provided about the firing patterns, etc, of the people shooting at them.
I totally understand where you're coming from with the balance standpoint and it really lacks a lot of hard rules outside of needing X + 2 networked devices with X*2 channels to get X bonus. Where and when bonuses apply and to what they apply is left fairly vague. Although allowing it give a straight defense pool bonus feels a bit strange. It can't make you react to being shot at any faster. In the case of actively dodging, I understand it applying a bonus based on information being provided about the firing patterns, etc, of the people shooting at them.
Don't start this again guys. This isn't likely to be settled outside an official ruling from Catalyst and probably not even then. Like I said some rule one way and some the other on drones. However if you run a centralized tacnet you do need to slave your commlinks to the master node running the tacsoft. Says so right in the book on pg 125 of Unwired under centralized tacnets.
We weren't starting it... we raised the two sides... and let the OP know he needs to talk to his GM to figure out how he reads the unclear sections.
But you're right... my memory was wrong on the last part. I was thinking the commlinks only needed to be subscribed... but yes they do need slaved and the slaving makes them part of it.
But you're right... my memory was wrong on the last part. I was thinking the commlinks only needed to be subscribed... but yes they do need slaved and the slaving makes them part of it.
We agreed to disagree on the matter. I respect his opinion on the matter and it is just as strong as mine.
Does intrigue me to consider a TM who runs CF of tacsoft, however with a bunch of tiny drones with high sensor ratings just to be safe (and you can only mount so much on them) and using him for closer support, rather than the more traditional roles. Since TMs are unhackable per the rules, slaving to him makes your network pretty much undefeatable.
Does intrigue me to consider a TM who runs CF of tacsoft, however with a bunch of tiny drones with high sensor ratings just to be safe (and you can only mount so much on them) and using him for closer support, rather than the more traditional roles. Since TMs are unhackable per the rules, slaving to him makes your network pretty much undefeatable.
QUOTE (Mantis @ Jan 29 2013, 08:13 PM)
Don't start this again guys. This isn't likely to be settled outside an official ruling from Catalyst and probably not even then. Like I said some rule one way and some the other on drones. However if you run a centralized tacnet you do need to slave your commlinks to the master node running the tacsoft. Says so right in the book on pg 125 of Unwired under centralized tacnets.
Slaving your comm to the Rigger's may not be a bad idea anyway since he's probably even more likely than the Hacker to have a high Electronic Warfare for use with Encryption.
X-kal:
That's an old trick that's been brought up a few times. If you go with the bionodes are unhackable except by technos & their sprites... then the central node is pretty much impervious.
The slaved nodes aren't directly hackable... but they are spoofable... so you can spoof them into disconnecting or doing other things.
Another big problem is the subscription limit on techno's... especially if they don't raise their logic/system. A log 3 techno is only system rating 3... with only 6 subscriptions. Since system on technomancers is almost never used... it's not umcommon to skimp on logic as opposed to intuition, cha, and wil.
The final problem with the techno basis is they have weak signal (half resonance... so 3 is common). Making them fairly easy to jam.
That's an old trick that's been brought up a few times. If you go with the bionodes are unhackable except by technos & their sprites... then the central node is pretty much impervious.
The slaved nodes aren't directly hackable... but they are spoofable... so you can spoof them into disconnecting or doing other things.
Another big problem is the subscription limit on techno's... especially if they don't raise their logic/system. A log 3 techno is only system rating 3... with only 6 subscriptions. Since system on technomancers is almost never used... it's not umcommon to skimp on logic as opposed to intuition, cha, and wil.
The final problem with the techno basis is they have weak signal (half resonance... so 3 is common). Making them fairly easy to jam.
QUOTE (Falconer @ Jan 29 2013, 06:35 PM)
We weren't starting it... we raised the two sides... and let the OP know he needs to talk to his GM to figure out how he reads the unclear sections.
But you're right... my memory was wrong on the last part. I was thinking the commlinks only needed to be subscribed... but yes they do need slaved and the slaving makes them part of it.
But you're right... my memory was wrong on the last part. I was thinking the commlinks only needed to be subscribed... but yes they do need slaved and the slaving makes them part of it.
Fair enough. Just seemed that it might, and I stress, might get out of hand unless two reasonable and rational individuals like yourselves were presenting their opinions and arguments for and against.
I almost always double check my books on rules to make sure I've got it right. That's why I love the PDF versions so much. Searchable and available anywhere my computer is.
Of course whether my interpretation is always right is open to debate 
. Did I use enough emoticons ? Better add a few more just in case.
QUOTE (Falconer @ Jan 29 2013, 10:45 PM)
X-kal:
That's an old trick that's been brought up a few times. If you go with the bionodes are unhackable except by technos & their sprites... then the central node is pretty much impervious.
The slaved nodes aren't directly hackable... but they are spoofable... so you can spoof them into disconnecting or doing other things.
The final problem with the techno basis is they have weak signal (half resonance... so 3 is common). Making them fairly easy to jam.
That's an old trick that's been brought up a few times. If you go with the bionodes are unhackable except by technos & their sprites... then the central node is pretty much impervious.
The slaved nodes aren't directly hackable... but they are spoofable... so you can spoof them into disconnecting or doing other things.
The final problem with the techno basis is they have weak signal (half resonance... so 3 is common). Making them fairly easy to jam.
Problem is that you need the AID of the Master node to spoof them, and since the Master Node is a Bionode.....
As for signal, all they need is a repeater (Comlink or drone) and viola, Signal 6.
TJ.... the master node must be transmitting to the slaves... getting the access ID is trivial. Just because they're a TM doesn't make that step any harder... breaking into the node yes. Spoofing it's access ID no. It's still sniff, decrypt, track... same as always.
As for the second... as soon as you add a repeater or a real commlink... that can be hacked instead. Also you need a wired path for the comms since a jammer will wipe out the bionode's wireless path to the repeater.
Nothing you've listed is anything more than speed bumps... the rules aren't crafted such as the only way to do this is to bust into the TM bionode. Even moreso as the TM can't quickly alter his AID... because all the devices are slaved... and would need to be unslaved and reslaved to the new AID.
Furthermore in any kind of high rating tacsoft... I guarantee an audit of your subscriptions once you start doing this... as slaving the nodes + your repeater nodes... etc.
As for the second... as soon as you add a repeater or a real commlink... that can be hacked instead. Also you need a wired path for the comms since a jammer will wipe out the bionode's wireless path to the repeater.
Nothing you've listed is anything more than speed bumps... the rules aren't crafted such as the only way to do this is to bust into the TM bionode. Even moreso as the TM can't quickly alter his AID... because all the devices are slaved... and would need to be unslaved and reslaved to the new AID.
Furthermore in any kind of high rating tacsoft... I guarantee an audit of your subscriptions once you start doing this... as slaving the nodes + your repeater nodes... etc.
QUOTE (Falconer @ Jan 30 2013, 09:49 AM)
TJ.... the master node must be transmitting to the slaves... getting the access ID is trivial. Just because they're a TM doesn't make that step any harder... breaking into the node yes. Spoofing it's access ID no. It's still sniff, decrypt, track... same as always.
As for the second... as soon as you add a repeater or a real commlink... that can be hacked instead. Also you need a wired path for the comms since a jammer will wipe out the bionode's wireless path to the repeater.
Nothing you've listed is anything more than speed bumps... the rules aren't crafted such as the only way to do this is to bust into the TM bionode. Even moreso as the TM can't quickly alter his AID... because all the devices are slaved... and would need to be unslaved and reslaved to the new AID.
Furthermore in any kind of high rating tacsoft... I guarantee an audit of your subscriptions once you start doing this... as slaving the nodes + your repeater nodes... etc.
As for the second... as soon as you add a repeater or a real commlink... that can be hacked instead. Also you need a wired path for the comms since a jammer will wipe out the bionode's wireless path to the repeater.
Nothing you've listed is anything more than speed bumps... the rules aren't crafted such as the only way to do this is to bust into the TM bionode. Even moreso as the TM can't quickly alter his AID... because all the devices are slaved... and would need to be unslaved and reslaved to the new AID.
Furthermore in any kind of high rating tacsoft... I guarantee an audit of your subscriptions once you start doing this... as slaving the nodes + your repeater nodes... etc.
Sniff (yes), Decrypt (yes), Track (to the Master Node, which you cannot do unless your Resonant.....)
Yes, I know, but Speed Bumps are usually enough, though. *shrug*
Nowhere does it state this in unwired or SR4a TJ.
You're making that last bit up unless you can cite it... the rules even state the bionode can be located just as any other hidden node may be! And nowhere in the rules can I find anything stating the TM can't be traced. p135 modes and scanning and tracking and hacking sections.
p135 as well... hacking the bionode doesn't say anything about non-resonance bits... only that sprites and TM's use the normal rules with a few exceptions.
Once again under subscriptions and traffic... while i can't do much to the bionode... I can sense and monitor it's traffic and even spoof commands from it.
If you go into passive reciever mode... all slaved nodes lose their subscriptions and are disconnected. So you've done my job for me by shutting down the tacnet (or your drones protection) yourself. If you spoof yourself a new Access ID again... all your subscriptions are voided... and all the nodes need to be reslaved again. Once again you've taken down the tacnet for me.
Trace does NOT require accessing the bionode... simply tracking a signal back to it's general source area.
Alternatively the bionode can be found simply by guessing which runner is the techno... then scanning him for hidden nodes. Ewar + Scan (4) test... not that hard. As well as the inventory all nodes in an area extended test.
Once again per the rules your AccessID is on all your transmissions... capture wireless, intercept traffic actions as well can be used to find out your access id. Without an AccessID on your transmissions the matrix cannot route your signals. So even if the slaved node is forwarding back all traffic... it must include your AccessID in the transmissions to tell the matrix where to route the signals back to. Even if the data itself is encrypted... the addressing information needs to be readable by all nodes the signal passes through.
You're making that last bit up unless you can cite it... the rules even state the bionode can be located just as any other hidden node may be! And nowhere in the rules can I find anything stating the TM can't be traced. p135 modes and scanning and tracking and hacking sections.
p135 as well... hacking the bionode doesn't say anything about non-resonance bits... only that sprites and TM's use the normal rules with a few exceptions.
Once again under subscriptions and traffic... while i can't do much to the bionode... I can sense and monitor it's traffic and even spoof commands from it.
If you go into passive reciever mode... all slaved nodes lose their subscriptions and are disconnected. So you've done my job for me by shutting down the tacnet (or your drones protection) yourself. If you spoof yourself a new Access ID again... all your subscriptions are voided... and all the nodes need to be reslaved again. Once again you've taken down the tacnet for me.
Trace does NOT require accessing the bionode... simply tracking a signal back to it's general source area.
Alternatively the bionode can be found simply by guessing which runner is the techno... then scanning him for hidden nodes. Ewar + Scan (4) test... not that hard. As well as the inventory all nodes in an area extended test.
Once again per the rules your AccessID is on all your transmissions... capture wireless, intercept traffic actions as well can be used to find out your access id. Without an AccessID on your transmissions the matrix cannot route your signals. So even if the slaved node is forwarding back all traffic... it must include your AccessID in the transmissions to tell the matrix where to route the signals back to. Even if the data itself is encrypted... the addressing information needs to be readable by all nodes the signal passes through.
QUOTE (Mantis @ Jan 29 2013, 09:13 PM)
Don't start this again guys. This isn't likely to be settled outside an official ruling from Catalyst and probably not even then. Like I said some rule one way and some the other on drones. However if you run a centralized tacnet you do need to slave your commlinks to the master node running the tacsoft. Says so right in the book on pg 125 of Unwired under centralized tacnets.
Here's how I as a GM run it (I'm not sure it is raw, but it is close enough) you need a number of participant equal to the rating +2 (so for a rating 1 tacnet you need at least three participants). Participants include drones and any other sentient being. Now each participant must have a tacnet program running equal to or greater than the tacnet rating of everyone else to qualify as a participant and must provide a number of sensors equal to twice the rating of the tacnet.
so if in the party we had four PC's and eight drones running a tacsoft at rating 3, each of the participants needs to provide 6 sensors to count as a participant and get the full benefits. If all 12 participate is won't go down to a rating 2 until there are only 4 participants left (either due to being taken out or their sensors blinded).
I do not worry about if a sensor is always applicable as my theory is that the tacnet is also a situation awareness program that helps guide your actions. As to the OP, yes everyone has to have the tacsoft to contribute and gain benefit from the Tacnet. The advantage to slaving is more or less to prevent hacking.
Once again, no, everyone does not have to have the software. Read Centralized Tacnets in Unwired. There are two ways to run the thing. Everyone has the software in a Decentralized Tacnet and uses a subscription, or the Centralized Tacnet where one person (usually the hacker or rigger) has the software and everyone slaves their commlink to his. All this info can be found on pg 125 of Unwired.
The OP is looking to use a Centralized tacnet so his team mates don't need to shell out the 12,000¥ for the program as you would need to do in a decentralized tacnet.
The OP is looking to use a Centralized tacnet so his team mates don't need to shell out the 12,000¥ for the program as you would need to do in a decentralized tacnet.
QUOTE (Mantis @ Jan 30 2013, 04:31 PM)
Once again, no, everyone does not have to have the software. Read Centralized Tacnets in Unwired. There are two ways to run the thing. Everyone has the software in a Decentralized Tacnet and uses a subscription, or the Centralized Tacnet where one person (usually the hacker or rigger) has the software and everyone slaves their commlink to his. All this info can be found on pg 125 of Unwired.
The OP is looking to use a Centralized tacnet so his team mates don't need to shell out the 12,000¥ for the program as you would need to do in a decentralized tacnet.
The OP is looking to use a Centralized tacnet so his team mates don't need to shell out the 12,000¥ for the program as you would need to do in a decentralized tacnet.
Like I said before, I'd rather be part of Centralized with the Rigger hosting because he's likely to have the best skill in Encryption (enough to justify that one-day interval 'strong encryption').
QUOTE (Falconer @ Jan 30 2013, 12:27 PM)
Once again per the rules your AccessID is on all your transmissions... capture wireless, intercept traffic actions as well can be used to find out your access id. Without an AccessID on your transmissions the matrix cannot route your signals. So even if the slaved node is forwarding back all traffic... it must include your AccessID in the transmissions to tell the matrix where to route the signals back to. Even if the data itself is encrypted... the addressing information needs to be readable by all nodes the signal passes through.
So why do you need to Trace the signal then?
Your original position held that Trace was necessary. You trace to gain access to the Master Node, and that you cannot do to a Bionode if you are not Resonant. Just saying. Yes, I agree that you can spoof its commands, but to do that you need the AID. You do not need to TRACE it to get that.
And if you have MSR to the Device, no routing is needed. Not likely with a TM, but I just wanted to put that out there.
TJ:
But the rules *DO* allow you to trace a bionode... even if you're not resonant...
You can only localize it down to 50m though as stated.
Technomancers are *NOT* untraceable to mundanes as you've claimed. (double negative sorry but..)
But the rules *DO* allow you to trace a bionode... even if you're not resonant...
You can only localize it down to 50m though as stated.
Technomancers are *NOT* untraceable to mundanes as you've claimed. (double negative sorry but..)
But here is the scenario, Falconer...
You see a drone you want to hack; it is slaved to the Bionode of a Technomancer. You attempt to hack the node, but since it is slaved, you are shunted to the Master node, at which point you are dumped (not physically, of course... at least I would hope that is the case, because it is at our table), because you cannot hack the Bionode of a Technomancer (unless you are Resonant). Me? I am going to look for another drone at that point; or, if it a drone that needs to be dealt with, I will likely just deal with the drone physically. *shrug*
Never said they were untraceable, per se, just that tracing back to the node does not work, because you cannot actually access the node (unless you are Resonant), since trace moves from node to node as you track. You will eventually get where you want to go and then be stymied when you get there because you cannot pass through the bionode. *shrug*
You see a drone you want to hack; it is slaved to the Bionode of a Technomancer. You attempt to hack the node, but since it is slaved, you are shunted to the Master node, at which point you are dumped (not physically, of course... at least I would hope that is the case, because it is at our table), because you cannot hack the Bionode of a Technomancer (unless you are Resonant). Me? I am going to look for another drone at that point; or, if it a drone that needs to be dealt with, I will likely just deal with the drone physically. *shrug*
Never said they were untraceable, per se, just that tracing back to the node does not work, because you cannot actually access the node (unless you are Resonant), since trace moves from node to node as you track. You will eventually get where you want to go and then be stymied when you get there because you cannot pass through the bionode. *shrug*
Sorry TJ, but are you saying the Persona of a hacker follows the trace (like a bloodhound on a trail) rather than the program just giving you his location/ID/etc after it has run? I didn't think Track worked that way so just trying to be clear.
QUOTE (Mantis @ Jan 31 2013, 07:56 AM)
Sorry TJ, but are you saying the Persona of a hacker follows the trace (like a bloodhound on a trail) rather than the program just giving you his location/ID/etc after it has run? I didn't think Track worked that way so just trying to be clear.
Seen it work both ways, at different tables. Sorry, I probably should have stated that. Depends upon your view of the Matrix, I guess. Personally, I prefer the Bloodhound interpretation, and that is what I like to use (descriptively).
I've never seen nor heard of anyone ever running it that way TJ. That sounds like another of your matrix house rules and not one of your better ones.
The trace program... goes through the matrix and traces the path the TM's signal takes from his bionode to the drone he has slaved. If something happens (such as the hacker spoofing a new Access ID... closing all his connections and and subscriptions), then the trace goes til it finds the nearest node he routed through (if not a mutual signal range). If your answer to the TM's weak signal is to carry a repeater commlink... it will trace to that commlink and then continue to try and trace through to the bionode (whose location only is fuzzed). This is in unwired.
The living persona has absolutely nothing to do with it... for most intensive purposes it's an icon in the matrix is no different than any other. The living node and only the living node on which it is hosted is different.
The trace program... goes through the matrix and traces the path the TM's signal takes from his bionode to the drone he has slaved. If something happens (such as the hacker spoofing a new Access ID... closing all his connections and and subscriptions), then the trace goes til it finds the nearest node he routed through (if not a mutual signal range). If your answer to the TM's weak signal is to carry a repeater commlink... it will trace to that commlink and then continue to try and trace through to the bionode (whose location only is fuzzed). This is in unwired.
The living persona has absolutely nothing to do with it... for most intensive purposes it's an icon in the matrix is no different than any other. The living node and only the living node on which it is hosted is different.
QUOTE (Falconer @ Jan 31 2013, 09:39 AM)
I've never seen nor heard of anyone ever running it that way TJ. That sounds like another of your matrix house rules and not one of your better ones.
The trace program... goes through the matrix and traces the path the TM's signal takes from his bionode to the drone he has slaved. If something happens (such as the hacker spoofing a new Access ID... closing all his connections and and subscriptions), then the trace goes til it finds the nearest node he routed through (if not a mutual signal range). If your answer to the TM's weak signal is to carry a repeater commlink... it will trace to that commlink and then continue to try and trace through to the bionode (whose location only is fuzzed). This is in unwired.
The living persona has absolutely nothing to do with it... for most intensive purposes it's an icon in the matrix is no different than any other. The living node and only the living node on which it is hosted is different.
The trace program... goes through the matrix and traces the path the TM's signal takes from his bionode to the drone he has slaved. If something happens (such as the hacker spoofing a new Access ID... closing all his connections and and subscriptions), then the trace goes til it finds the nearest node he routed through (if not a mutual signal range). If your answer to the TM's weak signal is to carry a repeater commlink... it will trace to that commlink and then continue to try and trace through to the bionode (whose location only is fuzzed). This is in unwired.
The living persona has absolutely nothing to do with it... for most intensive purposes it's an icon in the matrix is no different than any other. The living node and only the living node on which it is hosted is different.
Mechanically, yes, you are correct. Narratively, there is leeway. I have been enjoying the narrative more and more of late is all.
Funny you mention Matrix Houserules, since we quit using the one we were experimenting with. Most of the differences in style are narrative not mechanical. The mechanical differences are covered by Optional Rules, not House Rules. But no worries. I do get what you are saying.
Just me... but I don't find this even flavorful for sake of your narrative. There's no support whatsoever in the rules and it doesn't serve any good purpose in game.
Oh look a technomancer... everybody else just pack your bags and go home. That's all it does. Railroading... that's not narrative.
Even from the matrix point of view... a TM's icon isn't supposed to be any different than anyone elses.
I find the whole bionode thing interesting... but whoever wrote it didn't give any thought whatsoever to the consequences of it... just as they didn't give any thought to meta's for free in karmagen. Then again the whole of unwired suffers from that problem of multiple people wrote it and nobody checked to make sure that all the rules play nice with each other outside their own little sections (slaving and bionodes are probably a good example.. I don't believe this was an intended outcome). It was probably a mistake to make them completely inaccessable instead of far harder than any normal node.
Oh look a technomancer... everybody else just pack your bags and go home. That's all it does. Railroading... that's not narrative.
Even from the matrix point of view... a TM's icon isn't supposed to be any different than anyone elses.
I find the whole bionode thing interesting... but whoever wrote it didn't give any thought whatsoever to the consequences of it... just as they didn't give any thought to meta's for free in karmagen. Then again the whole of unwired suffers from that problem of multiple people wrote it and nobody checked to make sure that all the rules play nice with each other outside their own little sections (slaving and bionodes are probably a good example.. I don't believe this was an intended outcome). It was probably a mistake to make them completely inaccessable instead of far harder than any normal node.
Let's see here...
We also have...
Spelled out in plain day, really. You can trace the signal and spoof it back to the drones. And in the case of using a repeater, you could hack that for rights and spoof even more easily.
QUOTE
Hackers have three options when faced with a slaved node.
First, they can hack in directly to the slave with an additional
threshold modifier of +2, though this requires a physical (wired)
connection to the device. Second, they can hack the master node
(thus gaining access to the slaved node—and any other slaves—
as well), though this node is usually more secure. Third, they can
spoof the access ID of the master node and then spoof commands
to the slave.
First, they can hack in directly to the slave with an additional
threshold modifier of +2, though this requires a physical (wired)
connection to the device. Second, they can hack the master node
(thus gaining access to the slaved node—and any other slaves—
as well), though this node is usually more secure. Third, they can
spoof the access ID of the master node and then spoof commands
to the slave.
We also have...
QUOTE
Although an opposing hacker cannot scan or enter the
technomancer’s biological node, he can sense and intercept the
wireless traffic between the technomancer and an electronic node
(like a drone or device) as mentioned on p. 225, SR4. Hackers can
even spoof a signal coming from the technomancer, as the traffic
originating from the bio-node has to be in an electronic format
that devices can understand, and is therefore vulnerable to forgery.
Hackers may not, however, spoof commands to sprites (though
technomancers may spoof such commands).
technomancer’s biological node, he can sense and intercept the
wireless traffic between the technomancer and an electronic node
(like a drone or device) as mentioned on p. 225, SR4. Hackers can
even spoof a signal coming from the technomancer, as the traffic
originating from the bio-node has to be in an electronic format
that devices can understand, and is therefore vulnerable to forgery.
Hackers may not, however, spoof commands to sprites (though
technomancers may spoof such commands).
Spelled out in plain day, really. You can trace the signal and spoof it back to the drones. And in the case of using a repeater, you could hack that for rights and spoof even more easily.
QUOTE (Falconer @ Jan 31 2013, 11:29 AM)
Just me... but I don't find this even flavorful for sake of your narrative. There's no support whatsoever in the rules and it doesn't serve any good purpose in game.
Oh look a technomancer... everybody else just pack your bags and go home. That's all it does. Railroading... that's not narrative.
Even from the matrix point of view... a TM's icon isn't supposed to be any different than anyone elses.
I find the whole bionode thing interesting... but whoever wrote it didn't give any thought whatsoever to the consequences of it... just as they didn't give any thought to meta's for free in karmagen. Then again the whole of unwired suffers from that problem of multiple people wrote it and nobody checked to make sure that all the rules play nice with each other outside their own little sections (slaving and bionodes are probably a good example.. I don't believe this was an intended outcome). It was probably a mistake to make them completely inaccessable instead of far harder than any normal node.
Oh look a technomancer... everybody else just pack your bags and go home. That's all it does. Railroading... that's not narrative.
Even from the matrix point of view... a TM's icon isn't supposed to be any different than anyone elses.
I find the whole bionode thing interesting... but whoever wrote it didn't give any thought whatsoever to the consequences of it... just as they didn't give any thought to meta's for free in karmagen. Then again the whole of unwired suffers from that problem of multiple people wrote it and nobody checked to make sure that all the rules play nice with each other outside their own little sections (slaving and bionodes are probably a good example.. I don't believe this was an intended outcome). It was probably a mistake to make them completely inaccessable instead of far harder than any normal node.
There is a difference between the Persona and the Icon, no doubt.
Lets approach this a different way, then.
How about this? What does YOUR bloodhound IC do when you activate it? Mine? It locks on to the scent (the data trail), and then it tracks the user 's icon back to his originating node, and then infiltrates the node, ideally leaving something in the node for later. Or you can just pound on each other by roilling dice, which is the norm.
I find the first option flavorful, and the second option rather boring.
A lot of people complain that there are no options int eh Matrix, and I just laugh, because there are UNLIMITED options in the Matrix. They are only constrained to the imagination of the person implementing them.
Bionodes are very interesting, but here is the thing. In my above scenario, your IC would pound on the ICON and have a net positive effect. My Bloodhound IC option would be a failure... Why? Because my Bloodhound cannot infiltrate the Bionode. Which do you think I find more flavorful? it is not about the fact that a Technomancer has the POTENTIAL to be more powerful, because he undoubedly does.It is the fact that, in my experience, it takes an inordinate amount of time. Case in point. Our Prime Runners include a Technomancer (335ish Karma) and a Cyberlogician (320ish Karma), and more often than not, the Cyberlogician is better at HACKING than the Technomancer is, because the Technomancer has difficulties FINDING thsoe nodes that are so elusive, while the Cyberlogician does not (was often a running joke, sicne the CL could even find those pesky non-standard nodes with no trouble... the Technomancer had to ask for assistance more often than not to locate them). We are both aspected to Spoof, but since he cannot actually locate Nodes as efficiently as thje Cyberlogician does, he is far less useful in many circumstances. However, once he actually DID find a Node, he had 26 Dice to Spoof to my 15. Who do you think wins that one? Not to mention the ability to hack ANYTHING with his Resonance Touch.
QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Jan 31 2013, 12:38 PM)
Spelled out in plain day, really. You can trace the signal and spoof it back to the drones. And in the case of using a repeater, you could hack that for rights and spoof even more easily.
Can't hack the repeater if it is slaved...
Unless you are direect wiring the Bionode or the Device. If that is the case, you have greater problems on your hands.
Well, slaving the repeater runs you into a subscription problem, doesn't it? But regardless of that point, you can trace and spoof a technomancer just like anything else. The difference being finding their node to spoof is much harder. A 50m radius is pretty large.
QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Jan 31 2013, 01:43 PM)
Well, slaving the repeater runs you into a subscription problem, doesn't it? But regardless of that point, you can trace and spoof a technomancer just like anything else. The difference being finding their node to spoof is much harder. A 50m radius is pretty large.
It might, dependent upon number of subscriptions you need.
50m Radius is pretty huge indeed...
One thing I did get wrong here.. I said it for ewar when it isn't necessary for it. In fact it's a glaring hole in the rules... the trace user action is for tracking an icon... not an existing connection. I'd say it could also be used to track the physical location of a node though if you have it's AccessID since no other action makes sense for it.
That said though, you're talking about a full fledged ICE here TJ with multiple moving parts. So no I don't find this a matter of narrative/flavor... I find it a matter of raw mission/power creep. The track program itself does not do all that.
The bloodhound in your case would need a full fledged agent, track, scanner/sniffer (forget which finds hidden nodes), exploit, plus some sort of viral/worm payload to leave behind. That's a completely different animal than the trace program primitive (yes I come from a unix background).
Also... the matrix rules in SR4 don't support proxies... you don't put another device in there... then use your root access there to connect to something else. You're an icon in the node.. you're not using it's persona... you're using your own persona still on your local device. So it's not a matter of tracking back through a series of nodes you've logged into. It's a matter of simply finding out where if I send a packet to this address where does it go? How is it routed so I can send my buddy street sam to have some fun with the punk. If you are in the node with root.. you merely have signal path to it... and you would use up a subscription on your device to connect to the target normally... not a subscription from the remote device in mutual signal range.
The trace program itself merely provides a physical location and also the AccessID if you don't already have it. Heres another tidbit I missed when I reread this... it only provides the location of *ANY* (not just TM's) down to 50m. Only wired connections are pinpointed. (that makes some of the fluff about the upcoming matrix changes a bit more important as it has the fuzz tracking slamm-o right down to his exact hotel room... too bad they didn't bust him...).
The accessID would already be in the log of the server when you crack/login to it... and again when you disconnect. So the AccessID isn't the important part of it...
Your AccessID is like your modern day IP address. (well more like IPv6 since that does better with mesh routing... and assigns numbers on a geographical basis).
That said though, you're talking about a full fledged ICE here TJ with multiple moving parts. So no I don't find this a matter of narrative/flavor... I find it a matter of raw mission/power creep. The track program itself does not do all that.
The bloodhound in your case would need a full fledged agent, track, scanner/sniffer (forget which finds hidden nodes), exploit, plus some sort of viral/worm payload to leave behind. That's a completely different animal than the trace program primitive (yes I come from a unix background).
Also... the matrix rules in SR4 don't support proxies... you don't put another device in there... then use your root access there to connect to something else. You're an icon in the node.. you're not using it's persona... you're using your own persona still on your local device. So it's not a matter of tracking back through a series of nodes you've logged into. It's a matter of simply finding out where if I send a packet to this address where does it go? How is it routed so I can send my buddy street sam to have some fun with the punk. If you are in the node with root.. you merely have signal path to it... and you would use up a subscription on your device to connect to the target normally... not a subscription from the remote device in mutual signal range.
The trace program itself merely provides a physical location and also the AccessID if you don't already have it. Heres another tidbit I missed when I reread this... it only provides the location of *ANY* (not just TM's) down to 50m. Only wired connections are pinpointed. (that makes some of the fluff about the upcoming matrix changes a bit more important as it has the fuzz tracking slamm-o right down to his exact hotel room... too bad they didn't bust him...).
The accessID would already be in the log of the server when you crack/login to it... and again when you disconnect. So the AccessID isn't the important part of it...
Your AccessID is like your modern day IP address. (well more like IPv6 since that does better with mesh routing... and assigns numbers on a geographical basis).
QUOTE (Falconer @ Jan 31 2013, 03:02 PM)
One thing I did get wrong here.. I said it for ewar when it isn't necessary for it. In fact it's a glaring hole in the rules... the trace user action is for tracking an icon... not an existing connection. I'd say it could also be used to track the physical location of a node though if you have it's AccessID since no other action makes sense for it.
You are tracking an existing connection, though, otherwise there would be no ICON present.
QUOTE
That said though, you're talking about a full fledged ICE here TJ with multiple moving parts. So no I don't find this a matter of narrative/flavor... I find it a matter of raw mission/power creep. The track program itself does not do all that.
The bloodhound in your case would need a full fledged agent, track, scanner/sniffer (forget which finds hidden nodes), exploit, plus some sort of viral/worm payload to leave behind. That's a completely different animal than the trace program primitive (yes I come from a unix background).
Also... the matrix rules in SR4 don't support proxies... you don't put another device in there... then use your root access there to connect to something else. You're an icon in the node.. you're not using it's persona... you're using your own persona still on your local device. So it's not a matter of tracking back through a series of nodes you've logged into. It's a matter of simply finding out where if I send a packet to this address where does it go? How is it routed so I can send my buddy street sam to have some fun with the punk. If you are in the node with root.. you merely have signal path to it... and you would use up a subscription on your device to connect to the target normally... not a subscription from the remote device in mutual signal range.
The trace program itself merely provides a physical location and also the AccessID if you don't already have it. Heres another tidbit I missed when I reread this... it only provides the location of *ANY* (not just TM's) down to 50m. Only wired connections are pinpointed. (that makes some of the fluff about the upcoming matrix changes a bit more important as it has the fuzz tracking slamm-o right down to his exact hotel room... too bad they didn't bust him...).
The accessID would already be in the log of the server when you crack/login to it... and again when you disconnect. So the AccessID isn't the important part of it...
Your AccessID is like your modern day IP address. (well more like IPv6 since that does better with mesh routing... and assigns numbers on a geographical basis).
The bloodhound in your case would need a full fledged agent, track, scanner/sniffer (forget which finds hidden nodes), exploit, plus some sort of viral/worm payload to leave behind. That's a completely different animal than the trace program primitive (yes I come from a unix background).
Also... the matrix rules in SR4 don't support proxies... you don't put another device in there... then use your root access there to connect to something else. You're an icon in the node.. you're not using it's persona... you're using your own persona still on your local device. So it's not a matter of tracking back through a series of nodes you've logged into. It's a matter of simply finding out where if I send a packet to this address where does it go? How is it routed so I can send my buddy street sam to have some fun with the punk. If you are in the node with root.. you merely have signal path to it... and you would use up a subscription on your device to connect to the target normally... not a subscription from the remote device in mutual signal range.
The trace program itself merely provides a physical location and also the AccessID if you don't already have it. Heres another tidbit I missed when I reread this... it only provides the location of *ANY* (not just TM's) down to 50m. Only wired connections are pinpointed. (that makes some of the fluff about the upcoming matrix changes a bit more important as it has the fuzz tracking slamm-o right down to his exact hotel room... too bad they didn't bust him...).
The accessID would already be in the log of the server when you crack/login to it... and again when you disconnect. So the AccessID isn't the important part of it...
Your AccessID is like your modern day IP address. (well more like IPv6 since that does better with mesh routing... and assigns numbers on a geographical basis).
Yes, I am talking about an IC/Worm package at that point, otherwise your persona is doing the trace itself, which can be better delegated to IC/Agent/Worms, as the Hacker's time is finite and there are much more important things for him to do.
And yes, Unwired does support proxies (not sure that is the correct terminology), as when you use them, you lose Response due to load. As for the actual tracking, yes, if the Persona Traces, you get a rough destination, and that is about it. Hell, you do not even get the AID unless you actually analyze for it (which is a no-brainer, to be sure, and some may actually hand-wave it).
Yes, the Trace analysis is only accurate to a 50m Radius if wireless. However, all it takes is a few second hack to eliminate the quess work, since all comlinks have GPS, which can provide coordinates to the meter. Or the work of a few correlated towers (triangulation) pinging data to also narrow it down to the meter. Yes, I know, no mechanics for that, other than the GPS in the comlink, of course.
And the AID is in the log, assuming you want to actually scan millions (if not tens of millions) of log lines to locate it, as the node transfers data and reroutes continuously, with unlimited capacity (yeah, I know, mechanically, it is not all that difficult to find... a simple Analyze roll... ). Not like modern computers where there is actually a bottleneck at this point.
QUOTE (Falconer @ Jan 30 2013, 12:45 AM)
The slaved nodes aren't directly hackable... but they are spoofable... so you can spoof them into disconnecting or doing other things.
If you have not locked out every single command from your drone's systems, that you are not planning on using, you deserve to get your drones stolen.
Many of the commands that would be used to spoof and hijack a drone are also commands that a rigger would not really be using remotely anyway, like "create new admin account" or the like.
Lock them out.
If you really need to use them, you can damn well command the drone to come to you and pop the access panel to input the instructions directly.
-k
TJ: Where is the bit you're talking about for proxy? Thanks
The closest I could find is node sculpting... and bottlenecking things so they have to go through one node to get to another.
KI: Sorry but while I agree wholeheartedly about locking out commands that don't make sense... and I disagree wholeheartedly with spoofing new accounts! (think this is an abuse of spoof... when exploit exists to crack accounts in thing). The problem is the whole thing is far too open ended... and there should be some kind of limit to these things. Also the rules don't really support locking things by access method only by privilege level (though I wholeheartedly agree they should... it makes things make more sense).
Anyhow here's the problem I just thought of... by strict RAW. Only peripheral nodes and drones can be spoofed. So if you slave a commlink it can't be spoofed... unless you read the slaving rules to create an exception when it says people can spoof commands from the master. (guess that makes the most sense)... otherwise it would be pretty much impossible to ever disconnect a link from another.
But a lot of this is problematic in another way... especially for a technomancer... a rating 10 data bomb with the pavlov and biofeedback options... pretty much shuts anyone and everyone out of breaking into anything unless they can get the password, again off your link which is probably similarly bombed or requires a TM since I don't believe you can databomb a TM node (might be wrong). The bomb rolls twice it's rating in dice... and the pool to break it is limited... as if slaving back to the TM node wasn't enough...
That leaves only the spoof method... if you make that impossible as well. There is pretty much nothing whatsoever you can do to break into the node. I don't know about you, but impossible is not a good situation for any game. Exceptionally difficult... but impossible should not be in the cards for a good game.
The closest I could find is node sculpting... and bottlenecking things so they have to go through one node to get to another.
KI: Sorry but while I agree wholeheartedly about locking out commands that don't make sense... and I disagree wholeheartedly with spoofing new accounts! (think this is an abuse of spoof... when exploit exists to crack accounts in thing). The problem is the whole thing is far too open ended... and there should be some kind of limit to these things. Also the rules don't really support locking things by access method only by privilege level (though I wholeheartedly agree they should... it makes things make more sense).
Anyhow here's the problem I just thought of... by strict RAW. Only peripheral nodes and drones can be spoofed. So if you slave a commlink it can't be spoofed... unless you read the slaving rules to create an exception when it says people can spoof commands from the master. (guess that makes the most sense)... otherwise it would be pretty much impossible to ever disconnect a link from another.
But a lot of this is problematic in another way... especially for a technomancer... a rating 10 data bomb with the pavlov and biofeedback options... pretty much shuts anyone and everyone out of breaking into anything unless they can get the password, again off your link which is probably similarly bombed or requires a TM since I don't believe you can databomb a TM node (might be wrong). The bomb rolls twice it's rating in dice... and the pool to break it is limited... as if slaving back to the TM node wasn't enough...
That leaves only the spoof method... if you make that impossible as well. There is pretty much nothing whatsoever you can do to break into the node. I don't know about you, but impossible is not a good situation for any game. Exceptionally difficult... but impossible should not be in the cards for a good game.
QUOTE (Falconer @ Jan 31 2013, 10:58 PM)
TJ: Where is the bit you're talking about for proxy? Thanks
The closest I could find is node sculpting... and bottlenecking things so they have to go through one node to get to another.
The closest I could find is node sculpting... and bottlenecking things so they have to go through one node to get to another.
Proxy Servers, Page 104 of Unwired.
My Pleasure, Falconer.
I see... I had missed/forgotten that last paragraph.
I thought that section was for... yeah I bust into random schmuck's commlink... I then set it up so I can bounce emails off it while still disguising my own origination source. Didn't realize you could also route all traffic through it to fuzz traces.
The next section at least clears up the track bit too... if you're not in the node you have no idea the track is going on and can't obfuscate it. As well as the rules for even noticing the trace attempt go way up if your tracker is also running stealth.
Oh well, we can only hope that jmhardy actually puts a good team of playtesters on all the new matrix stuff and it gets cleaned up a bit.
I thought that section was for... yeah I bust into random schmuck's commlink... I then set it up so I can bounce emails off it while still disguising my own origination source. Didn't realize you could also route all traffic through it to fuzz traces.
The next section at least clears up the track bit too... if you're not in the node you have no idea the track is going on and can't obfuscate it. As well as the rules for even noticing the trace attempt go way up if your tracker is also running stealth.
Oh well, we can only hope that jmhardy actually puts a good team of playtesters on all the new matrix stuff and it gets cleaned up a bit.
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