You are extrapolating from the rules for Spellcasting, which Possession isn't. The two options listed in the Possesion power are attempting to possess a living vessel (an Opposed Test, resisted by Intuition + Willpower) or an inanimate vessel (A Success Test, with a Threshold equal to the Object Resistance). Either way, the spirit is rolling Force x 2, with a possible +6 for it being a prepared vessel. There aren't any special rules for possessing a focus or the like, and making it a prepared vessel is a different process from enchanting a focus.

Oh well. I knew half of that already, but simply not bonding the focus... hadn't figured that. Thank you!

So would you say a good bandadge for this situation (in the interest of not piling up more contradicting rules and rulings) would be to count any already-magicked inanimate object as a "prepared vessel" with Object resistance, or as a living vessel? To call it an unprepared inanimate object is to ignore its magical nature and the already-present rules for how OTHER magic works regarding it (easily abused as it may be). There is also no specifically listed exclusion for objects already enchanted magically. It would, also, potentially get both the OR as a threshold for success, as well as dice to resist equal to its force rating... but that seems a bit extreme, imho.

No, an enchanted item is not automatically a prepared vessel. Preparing a vessel is a separate process, with a different threshold for the enchanting test and different requirements/ingredients. Calling it an unprepared vessel is not ignoring its magical nature, just the fact that being magical does not automatically make it a prepared vessel. As you said, there is no exclusion for objects already enchanted magically, so why are you giving them special rules? Conjuring and Spellcasting are two separate things, and Spirit/Critter powers don't always function like a spell would. Possession doesn't work like a Spellcasting Test, it works like how it is listed.

I do believe, however, that the OP did say that the armor is a prepared vessel, so that isn't the issue in this particular case.

Not "giving weird rules." Spirit powers already function as critter powers (RC 92). Some are incredibly similar to magic. Additionally, as per SR4A p. 292 regarding Critter Powers:
"The game mechanics given for the powers below are not intended
as hard and fast rules, but as guidelines for the gamemaster. Players
should never be absolutely certain of the capabilities of a critter, particularly
Awakened ones.  There is always a chance that a power may work
slightly differently for one particular paracritter, especially one designated
as a prime runner critter. Uncertainty is a wonderful dramatic tool.

"Note that in order for a creature to use a power against a target,
they must share the same “state:” astral or physical. Astral forms cannot
affect physical targets, and vice versa (see  e Astral World, p.191).
Astral critters that materialize can affect physical targets, however, just
as dual natured critters can interact with both the physical and astral
planes equally effectively"

Additionally, all magical effects cast on inanimate objects seem to suffer from the Object Resistance rules. When an object is enchanted as a focus and activated, the rules state that metahuman magic affects it not as an Inanimate Object, but as a Magical Object. As such, it no longer gains the standard Object Resistance otherwise granted to it, subsequently meaning it does not automatically remove successes from spellcasting tests against it. There is no outright stating for the rules regarding an inactive focus, which means an inactive focus could either get NO resistance to metahuman spellcasting, it's force rating in resistance, it's OBJECT Resistance, complete immunity, or a combination thereof. There is no definitive rule for this instance. We only have the rules for Active Foci, Unattenteded Inanimate objects, Indirect Spellcasting, People (health spells), and People (other spells).

It's very simple. An inactive focus is an object. But that isn't what we are discussing in this thread.

Possession is not Spellcasting. You said it yourself, you are listing the rules for "metahuman magic", and they don't apply here. Possession lists exactly how it works, it is a threshold based on an object's Object Resistance. Just because something is enchanted as a Magic Focus doesn't mean it doesn't have an Object Resistance Threshold, it just doesn't use it to resist spellcasting. And still, Possession isn't Spellcasting.

True, possession isn't spellcasting. It's a Spirit Power. This also makes it a Critter Power, and therefor subject to GM rulings and even self-contradiction, if desired. Ultimately, it means any such variables are up to GM discretion, which the player would have to present to the GM for a ruling thereupon. If the GM doesn't like the outcome, he can easily say "the spirits didn't like it, so they decided it won't work that way anymore" if he likes. He could even simply decide to make it more difficult (both OR AND Force rating resist) on this or subsequent attempts if he feels like it because "critter powers is WEIRD!!"

Yes, but we aren't discussing special GM rulings, we're working with RAW, how the rules work as written.

You could answer every question "but the GM can do it that way if he wants", that doesn't mean it answers the question.

The odd thing about critter powers is, the RAW is "GM, go with whatever way you want it to work, whenever; it's cool." It's poorly understood in-universe, so RAW reflects the nebulous nature. GM can rule one way, then immediately turn around any time later and rule the exact opposite method and still be RAW for critter powers. I pointed out the passage from the core book (SR4A), quoted verbatim. "There is always a chance that a power may work slightly differently for one particular paracritter, especially one designated as a prime runner critter." So ONE spirit could easily be justified as having Inhabitation function like a cast spell, and later it doesn't, or a different spirit treats it as not needing to worry about Object Resistance. A third might NEED an enchanted item as its vessel, because MAGIC and Critter Powers. All of that in the same game, in the same session, is RAW possible.

In a rules forum, by necessity the discussion MUST be assumed to only involve specific written rules, not nebulous GM custom houserule fiat. Even if the text says "make something up", whatever you make up is still a house rule. The only part that is RAW is the specific text "make something up".

Otherwise the participants in the discussion are not operating from the same assumptions.

By the written rules, critter powers are not spells, no matter how similar they are to spells. A GM may decide to make exceptions in his or her own home games, but such would not be pertinant to a rules forum discussion.


-k