Probably. Otherwise, guests who get killed because the system hits them and not some perp would ruin McHugh's reputation. The guards can then bag the bad guys and hand them to the Rent-a-Cops. Or maybe it fires Sitch'n'shock, if that's still around in SR5.

Chemical Rounds with DMSO and Special Sauce.

Enjoy your meal!

SnS still being around would be a deal breaker for me

Nonconductivity 6 on all Armor -> what's that SnS you talk about?

I would say it was way earlier than that, by late 2nd edition. Novels published around that time did not have many dystopian elements. The Aztlan SB also wasn't half as dystopian as it could have been. I guess the focus given to metaplot centered on actual evil forces or mad entity a lot of attention away from social problems and all that (in a true dystopia, Renraku would have cut a deal with Deus).

So about just stealing Americars and fencing them.

Sounds more profitable to be a chop-shop team than a runner team!

Since the U(CA)S Army was brought in, it was impossible to turn out like that. Not in the 90s and 00s. Besides, the point there was a return of government power to push back the corps. So yes, a lot less dystopic at the time. That is one thing I am kind of glad to see return, though it can be easily overdone.


Did you even read the file?

SnS as shotgun-only ammo would be fine. It's allowing it in a holdout pistol (with the SAME damage code) that's absurd.

There is a mechanic that let's negate you SnS almost totally. So what is so bad about it? Hollow-Point is much worse imho...

Sadly, I'm not fluent in German, so no.

If I was, I'd be buying their sourcebooks instead, they seem to get better material.

Much better actually. And the entire line's in hardcover, on pretty robust paper with great binding (excluding the Anniversary Edition book). Oh, and they believe in Errata.

However, the adventure clearly says this is a hooding job, so 500 isn't payment for a standard run. You also get free services from a maybe-magical healer (the Johnson) as part of the deal.

Just because "we" get it spell-checked, errata'd and with some setting (AGL) specific Add-Ons?

Shit, man, spellchecking's enough to sell me. Errata I don't have to sweat my brain into reasoning out would blow my mind.

We also get all the Racist Bulldrek cut out and replaced by actually good stuff . .

We're just pesky, finicky people like that. The downside is not everything got translated. DotA only printed, missions S4 not at all, neither Seattle 2072 nor any of the plot hook books.

Does that include WAR?

On the other Hand, we got Print Versions of some of the US PDF Only Stuff too . .
No no, Bogota! Got translated. And all the stupid racist Bulldrek got cut out and replaced by good stuff.

Errata'd and edited for being less offensive, but yes. And with a pretty decent add-on about the German armed forces, the Eurowars, and the first MilSpec Tech. Can't say they didn't make an effort, at least. Stormfront will not be entirely translated, though.

Stupid unilingual brain.

Must...not...lose...temper....

I'm interested in why you would?

Cherrypickings!
Everything usefull will get used i think.

Still doesn't justify why someone with 1 million nuyen worth of ware, rigger, or decker gear would ever accept a job for 500 nuyen. That's the type of pay you would have been pulling back when you were first assembling that million worth of gear not what you should be making now.

Not to mention that Mages get paid more than that just to place wards at exactly 0% risk of death.

Things were no different "back in the day" than they are now.

Maybe because he's doing the job for more than just money?

By your reasoning, no one with a house, a car, a college education, a savings account, a flatscreen, a wife, two kids, a motorcycle, a few guns, prescription glasses, a shelf full of books, and an X-Box 360 should ever accept a job for just some pizza and a beer or two (because seriously, why would they need just some pizza and a few beers, look at all the stuff they have!)...yet friends still help friends move, don't they?

Stahlseele slaps the word "racist" around with a very broad brush. The way he's using it, everything CGL does is racist.

I, for one, am sick and damn tired of being lumped into things with that broad brush he's slapping around. Maybe he didn't mean it that way, but it's sure what he seems to be saying. It offends me that people think of me that way.

You mean Non-Conductive?

That's nice and all, but I prefer 6 points of thermal insulation (I'd rather be electrocuted than set on fire, TBH).

(Hint: R6 Non-Cond is great, but it precludes adding any other elemental resistances)

At least you weren't called a Misogynist.

In the meaning. Guards, even armed ones, are pretty normal in SR and are described as such. Even today, depending on the location and the country, armed guards are normal. Turrets however, concealed ones and open ones are one step further - they are nothing short of permanent weapon entrenchments and should described and used as such. It´s like having bunker doors, barbed wire lines or carrying assault weapons or military grade armor openly etc.

Now, you can have them. In a very dystopian, violent, fragmented world with only MegaCorps at the push button and with minimal government power a weapon turret as a security measure could be described as quite normal - and I personally would prefer that kind of world. But then I would love to have a consistent line with all the other descriptions in the basic book, splat books, setting descriptions etc. And yes, if I read my SR2 +3 +4 bookjs I don´t have this feeling. I have this nice cozy Deus Ex light cyberpunk feeling, which is totally ok, but not that "fucked up "the world is actively trying to kill you" feeling" (like, for example, in CP2020, SLA Industries or (at least in some aspects) Eclipse Phase).

SYL

~hmm~ If the differences were perceived as that little, a greater number of german SR fans wouldn't have heavily critizised Mr. H.J. Alper's use of gun turrets on the roofs of ALDI stores as part of desciption of the setting back in the old SR2/SR3 days ...

They were anti air turrets, or?

SYL

HAH. So lets see you have magic 6+spell casting 6, so 12 dice. You roll get 4 hits. Its a 2 stat defense system now as I understand it so lets say average joe with 3 willpower+ 3 whatever the other stat is or 6 dice he gets 2 hits. You did 2 boxes of damage. So why did you even bother casting a spell this pass? Hell even if magic kept the one stat defense that is only 3 boxes of damage. Hell if you do gross hits in damage it still sucks. Staring at him menacingly would be a better use of your time. Lol I hope that is an old rule that got caught in playtesting. If that made it through playtesting I am going to have a hard time believing they playtested well anything.

It wouldn't be so bad if they were switching bad to LMSD damage, where that 2 successes would be 3 boxes of damage, and one more successes would be 6.



Unrelated: I do like the idea of debuffs reducing limits rather than dicepool, so they can have a much greater effect much faster. If you have a limit of 5(7) with your gun, and get hit with chaos with 4 successes, having your limit go from 7 to 3 is going to be a much bigger deal than having your dice pool go from 17 to 13. And one extra casting could potentially take the guy out of the fight.

Oh totally limit drops are like taking hits away it is powerful. Spells like that are about as useful as they were in 1-3e where it bumped the TN. I'm laughing because I saw a FB post about how happy someone was now that stunball wasn't on his spell list anymore. At the time I was like yeah, right. Well yeah if you make something useless no one will take it, hey next time why don't they go for balanced so people who like stunball can take it if they want.

Heh that reminds me, my last character actually got a bonus point of karma because the DM was so shocked someone was playing a mage without stunball.

Depends, 3 boxes of damage in an area attack is more than most grenades do a lot of the time currently and against a tank troll there are times I would happily take 2-3 boxes a round over whatever is going to get through that 20+ soak pool. I would have liked to see it a little closer to what I see as the sweet spot of damage with an average of 6P, but it will probably still get used it just won't be the mandatory combat spell.

You are always speaking out against infected with those nasty blood drinking stereotypes - integration not discrimination Ghouls are people too!!!

Gotta love how "there's a rule I don't like" automatically means "no one playtested anything," instead of just meaning it went through playtesting and lots of people besides you liked it just fine.

Wasn’t there a mention of spellcasting becoming a simple action too? I could be wrong here. But based on that assumption…

No weapon, no ammo, no drain and a simple action…

Mage stares at a target for about 1 second and does between 4 and 6 boxes of damage without even causing a bead of sweat to form on his brow… Yea, man mages got hit right in the face if a HUGE nerf stick. (NOT)

It seems like they did change some of the balance around, but not too bad really.

I am really looking forward to the English release of the main book, I want to see how this all plays out.

Again, haven't read the German Quickstart because, well, not German, and my High School Latin doesn't help me with that language at all.

But, I'll risk toeing my NDA to say that yes, Mages take Drain in SR5.

The Simple Action Casting thing was, as I recall, something to do with "reckless casting", which could be done at a Drain penalty...

I wouldn't be surprised if the QSR happened to be missing some rules for the sake of simplicity.

Hrm... I stand corrected...

Based on QSR mages are tough... Again waiting for the release of the book because... I WANT TO KNOW!

I didn't realise the intent of SR5 was to make combat the slowly beat the weak to death over 5 passes game. Direct combat spells weaker than before, sure that would be fine. So weak you are better off using a heavy pistol with a half assed skill, probably not so good.

More snark, still no rational defense of your previous snark (despite being very directly called on it). The more hyperbolic some posters become about all this (while still operating off an incomplete picture), the more difficult it becomes to try and have something like a civil conversation to try and encourage people to keep a level head.

Play nice kids.

I hope I am missing something. Because by the math shown a single net hit from a heavy pistol will do more damage to a 6 body 12 armor target than a combat spell cast at a random joe from a mage with 6 magic, and 6 spellcasting. That does not seem like good math to me for a game system where combat spells are meant to be used at all. Hell with drain there probably is a decent chance the mage will hurt themselves more than thier targets. Well that is probably wrong since you probably wont cast these spells past force 5 since more force is a bit of a waste past your expected gross hits.

What had been left out of War! has been two or three adventure hooks iirc. Watch your words, ok?

No, spells are only resisted with willpower (mana spells) or body (physical spells) plus counterspelling (when available). So, you should get about 3-4 net hits against non-magicians usually.

And yes, the QSR spells don't have drain, but than firearms don't have recoil either... so I think both have been left out for sake of simplicity.

-CJ

Edit: Oh, I played the Fast Foof Fight scenario with some friends last night. And you're right. The magician's damage output is nowhere near what we are used to from SR4. The magician's player quickly switched to the taser which does a whopping 9S damage now. I guess we'll have to wait and see if the drain has also changed and how reckless casting will fit into that.

i am talking about stuff like fighting jewish spirits in auschwitz to get the scalpell of a nazi clerk (no i am not making this up) and poisoning gypsie wells . .
i sure hope you did not have anything to do with these. i'd be very disappointed to learn otherwise . .

Your words read like CGL is releasing racist content on a regular base, what is clearly not the case.