I fairly recently took up GMing for my group for a short spell (aka I stole my GM's hat for awhile ) in which the group decided to play all power heavy characters down to a T, which was fine at the time because who doesn't like an almost full-troll team steamrolling their way through town yah?

BUT now the squishy characters are back (plus 2 new players who are also fairly squishy) putting the group to the number of powerhouses at 3 and the squishies at 3 as well.

Here's the kicker. I cannot make overpowered mooks for them to fight because by divine accident I almost killed one of the squishies a few games back because he got in the way of one such mook and I feel bad for them because they feel really left out due to the amount of IPs flying everywhere. At the same time if I just throw hordes of squishier mooks at the minmaxers, battle takes forever and the squishies STILL don't get to do anything.

Example: Throw everyone into a 3 room building where each room has 4-5 enemies each. Powerhouses kill everything in practically 2IPs, one squishy only managed to open a door and the other squishy got to throw one neurostun.

Oh, and one of them got beat up by an office clerk. *snerk*

It's so bad that the new guy immediately requested a character remake after his 1st session.

Now how the hell do I counteract this while giving everyone time to shine? I don't want to turn this into a player vs GM type scenario =\

What sort of characters are the squishier ones?

Two drone riggers (one isn't a regular so he's not included in the count) a stealth-ninja styled after Agent 47 who is adamant that he only wants to play sneaky/subtle and the last one is a slightly augmented medic.

EDIT: The rigger is more into surveillance and exploding things with dragonfly drones than all out support fire.

Hrm. In my experience, players can live with only being supporting in some scenes if they get scenes of their own later or just next session. Not every character needs to shine in every scene, just, players should feel relevant over the course of an adventure.

Maybe have some sneaky scenes where being discovered wrecks the plan (like, listening in on a conversation/finding out someone's motives, that sort of thing), where your surveillance drones and ninjas can shine, followed by blowing open an otherwise impenetrable door with a drone (weak spot is in a hard to reach place, maybe some wiring needs to be cut in a vent that is too small for metahunmans to crawl in, that sort of thing), and then wrecking up a hideout or facility where the bricks can come down on appropriately challenging mooks like, uh, the bricks they are?

I've already done three stealth missions with them often it gets sabo'd by shenanigans.

A few sessions ago I had them break into an office building. Instead of letting the medic hack into the door as planned, the trolls decided to just bash the (metal) door in, and yay! security comes running.

Then last game I had them go rescue a hostage from the mob, a little girl. They were holed up in an 'electronics store' where it was a fairly simple gig to just sneak in (for the ninja guy anyway). The plan was to let the ninja and the medic quietly break in through the back entrance while maybe the sam and the other face guy distract the people in the front, swoop in, grab the girl then shoot the place up, everyone wins

However, the sam decided to get his hacker to cut the power (it was a good idea, just he forgot to get the rest of the party inside first!) hereby trapping everyone inside and the team outside, then getting the power back on again and the moment the back door got open our lovely sniper ran in and started blowing people's faces off at point blank. The medic threw his neurostun into the back room (where the hostage was, he didn't know yet) which resulted in a mobster running out with the girl and the gunnery guy almost shot both of them (I had to force him to take a perception) and she still got hurt because he shot his legs off and she broke her nose on the floor =\

I don't think the bricks even TRY to be subtle anymore even when it calls for it.

Part of the problem is you have basically a Heavy Action campaign where the heavies KNOW they can take most anything you throw at them so there is no penalty for their actions.

Then in this situation you will have to provide 'encouragement' for the heavies to play a lighter touch.

While they are big fish in their own pond, there are forces and tools bigger than even them.


The troll kicks down the door into a secure area? Have blast doors drop down in front and behind closing off the hallway and gas them. Let them wake up stripped of gear, cyber disabled and in a Lone Star Facility. While there should be some way to free themselves, the threat of a little hard time may do some good and maybe some of them will think going in quiet next time might not be a bad idea.

Sniper running amok? Where is the opposition sniper? A sniper half a klick off dropping the street Sammy with a called shot and special ammo blowing out his kneecap is not a lot of fun, but if you are facing a force you can not go toe to toe with, any sane opposition will fall back on tactics that will work.

Runners still trash everything in sight? Did they clean up afterwards? Any articles or blood/hair etc left behind can be used for a nasty ritual and the Azzies/Blood mages/toxics are never slow to pull out the nasty drek.

Anything your players are able to do, you should be prepared to apply in kind if necessary. You say you do not want a player vs GM scenario, but some adaptations will be necessary, either from yourself & the campaign or the players themselves and you have already admitted the heavies are not interested in other methods.

As to the hostage, you forced a perception roll, but what sort of downside did you imply if the hostage got hurt? Getting on the wrong side of the Johnson should have consequences, especially if the girl was family. The Johnson hired THEM because he could have paid the local gangers 50 each to just rush the place and trash it to get at the girl, but instead went with what he thought was a more professional option with better chances of safe delivery. The Johnson probably would not retaliate with force for an injured daughter, but word gets out that the mooks are loose cannons and the better jobs dry up as their rep drops and they get relegated to smash jobs as cannon fodder.


Part of the term shadowrun means to stick to the shadows because if you came out into the light, you get stepped on. Making too much of a fuss? Suddenly you deal with government forces with mil spec gear and stuff you can't even buy from the best fixer/supplier (epsilon grade). Think about it, if they (corps/government/crime organizations) were total push overs they wouldn't still be in power now would they. Somewhere along the way they applied the smackdown on the competition and can do so again. Especially to highly visible threats.

Be warned though, applying the stick to the heavy action player may cause complaints, especially if you bruise/maim their favourite characters to show them the risks. They have become accustomed to one style of play and knowing something out there can kick their hoops may not sit well with them.

And it does not have to be all stick, carrots work too.. maybe the better jobs pay a bonus for a 'clean' extraction or other perks for a light touch used.

If you want the Heavies to steamroll everything everytime that is fine, it's your table, but keep in mind not all character concepts will be able to run with this without some serious redesigning. The rigger will need gundrones and mr stealth will maybe need to look at sniper/distance gear, unless you want to introduce Predator level camoflague to let him slip in and out of combat like a ghost. But that just leads further down the path of escalating gear/skills/situation and becomes harder and harder to integrate new blood without jacking them up to similar levels right off the bat.

You can increase the amount of time for Stealth and Social characters to shine using some of the most common and least costly security choices. You just have to approach security as an approach of 3 steps. A) Detect the runners B) Call for help C) Delay the runners until help arrives. All a facility needs to do this is regular rent-a-cops, some smoke grenades, maglocks, and maybe some barrier foam if the security budget is rich. Clever architecture also can help. If a facility actually has a good budget, then you can include crazy stuff like cybercritter patrols and deadly Mitsuhama nerve gases.

The problem with boot and shoot tactics is that it's the same as calling the police at the start of your run. You are giving security step A in the security rundown for free. I was part of a shadowrun that failed the other day precisely because some of our members insisted on doing this. The GM even told us later that it was a milk run and he was frustrated that we managed to blow this. It's much better if you can get at least inside, or even better already have whatever you came to steal before alarms start going off. Combat is quick, but things like moving down floors and opening maglocks can eat up whole minutes.

Know when both the police and any other responding security contracters will arrive. If you WANT the murderer's row of trolls to run wild and be invincible gods, then set the runs in the Barrens and have the police never arrive. Or somewhere with a slower response like Kent or Auburn, and with no extra security contract.

If the party was just the trolls this team would probaly actually just get low paying gigs. They'd get sent precisely those types of runs. "Go take down this warehouse in Kent, the cops probaly won't respond for 15 minutes, so just have fun killing everyone." The team with stealth, social, and hacking capabilities can sneak into richer areas and avoid the the quicker and more powerful police response.

When the police or responding security forces do arrive in force you can be nice and give the players a big warning and time to escape. The mission failed, they don't get paid, and their rep might take a hit. If they stay to fight this huge obvious threat, it may be a sign that it is time for a TPK or a mass jailing. You usually want to avoid such, but at this point your players are either completely clueless or they are testing you to see what they can get away with. Probaly they think it's just yet another big battle that their trolls will win. You can take them down with stun spells, gel rounds, and the like, jail them, then have a contact or the Fixer get them and their equipment out at great expense.

As an alternative, you can ask the stealthy players to make new characters with pink mohawks. You could even switch the game each weak, Troll Night one week, Stealth night the next.

I think some other people have touched on this, but I think your first step is to talk to everyone involved and sort out what people want from this game. It may be that those things aren't compatible and you may have a maturity issue as well from your players, so that they are unwilling to compromise to allow other people to enjoy the game differently. i.e. intentionally screwing over your team just because you're board and want to start shooting things is super disrespectful of everyone else and sort of a temper tantrum. But maybe the players don't realize how problematic they're being and you can find a solution that will make everyone happy. That won't happen if you just try to fix it without talking to them. Especially if that fix is to just put in some realism to curb stomp a few of your players, since it will probably leave a bad taste in people's mouths. (and you could easily curb stomp the trolls without hitting the squishies if you wanted to)

If I had to guess:
You've gotten the pink-mohawk over the top violence out of your system and want a more serious game.
A few of your players want escapist shenanigans like you would have in GTA.
A few players want a serious cloak and dagger game.

But if people are willing to work together, there is a way to build runs that everyone can have some fun on and play to their strength. Try giving multiple objectives. A few more violent and a few more stealth/social. Trolls make good distractions. It will take a little work from you to run the two side by side, but it's doable.

Some Ideas-
1. They need to steal some protype, but it's in a heavily guarded facility. The stealth guy can join the security squad guarding it with guidance from the surveillance rigger. Meanwhile, the trolls are on the other side of the facility, when the time comes to make the grab, they let all hell break loose, giving perfect cover for the ninja. Maybe, have the medic externally trigger slab injections so it looks like the trolls have gone down and then swoop in as a corp "ambulance" to take the bodies away and revive the trolls.
2. They are hired to take out a mob boss or financially ruin them or otherwise do something involving a gang that runs an underground fighting ring. The trolls obviously play the heavies, taking turns in the ring and throwing/winning matches to manipulate the tournament (while making it look close). The medic is doping/drugging appropriately to help throw matches. The stealth guy is in the crowd using the matches as a chance to get close to the mark or run the con or otherwise complete the mission with the rigger as assistance.
3. The group is hired to take out an entire gang that has targeted corp targets for smash and grabs. The corp wants a message sent. They need to take out the gang in a big way, but it's very spread out and they'll go to ground once they've been hit. The stealth guy locates the gang and does the leg work with the medic to set up a meet to make a big drug deal. Then they point the trolls and watch. The rigger has drones ready rigged with explosives/chemicals. If/when the gang members flee, he tracks them until they meet up with more gang members. Then he hits them with the drones and tells the trolls where to go to finish the guys off.
4. Bounty hunting. The trolls can't smash heads until they find the guy they're after. They need the rest of the team for that.
5. Recover a piece of high tech, newly developed cyber that was being field tested when it was stolen. By the guy who had it installed. They have to take out a very dangerous cybered up soldier, without destroying the cyber and then the doctor has to extract it from the guy and return it to the client.
6. They have to go into a facility brimming with a new type of regenerating infected. They need to pull out a group of scientists. They reach the center the facility with limited problems, but the scientist are dead/dying and the facility goes into lock down mode and everything goes dark. They're swarmed by these infected. The medic has to reconstruct the scientist work to find a method of halting the regeneration process so they can actually take the infected down for good (and keep from being infected with this strain). The rigger needs to get the automated defenses cooperating and eventually get the facility to let them out. The ninja needs to slip through the infected to get to the self destruct system while avoiding some detection/automated system to prevent them from being nuked. And the trolls need to buy them all time to do this by gunning down all of the infected, which just keep growing back more powerful. Everyone has a role and they're all complementing each other while playing to their strength.

Thorya has very good adventure ideas and for other ideas you can look at shows like Leverage or any of the Sentai style animes with a team of individuals with a wide range of skills between them, but each having a specialty.

The first few runs may well go south if the trolls try to barrel through all the scenes, but if they can survive it they may see the use for alternate methods.

Sorry, I forgot to mention the trolls were removed from play (they were experimental characters says their players) to be replaced with their equally as brickly main characters who do roughly the same thing.


Wasn't the original intention but the bricky players wanted to play that way, to the point not one but three troll characters created that were minmaxed to death. The idea was that since the main campaign (run by the other GM) was quite railroady so I think I made the mistake of letting the players do whatever they wanted, with future consequences of course.


Nope. They've never cleaned up after. They've failed a run one because they left behind far too much evidence. No blood magic in my game though.


The team was doing a favour for their fixer. I forced the gunner to take that perception to see the girl because the guy was playing that character as a throw-away which he said would be for 1 game only. If the girl had died, the entire team would take the rap for it while the player himself gets off scott free. It was bad enough the PC was acting dickish just because he knew there was no way for it to bite him in the ass due to '1-shot-character'.


I have been rewarding the team for extra clean or well thought out end results. Apparently not enough incentive? The medic always tries his best to convince the group to try and minimize casualties or at least ACT professional though this always backfires when the sammy wants to do something 'creative' if you get my drift.

I've noted down the rest of your advice, thanks


I threw a troupe of angry mutant cybered baboons at them as well as psychotropic fear gas. All the cyberboons' died at the hands of one brick and everyone else save one PC have gas masks of some sort on at any given time.


At least they run the hell away when I throw Lonestar at them. I've used Lonestar to chase them off the scene more than once already.

I may have to start fighting with chemicals, poisons, DMSO and nanites soon

Also, you can hack their cybernetics to make them appreciate the Matrix characters. Either by using forced wireless-enabling nanites (from The Twilight Horizon), or just normally in case they haven't minmaxed their Matrix security. Just to stop the bricks a bit and give the hacky/matrix characters places to shine.

Yes, yes and yes.
One only wants to kill and loot everything (but abandons the team the moment it looks like he'll get hurt in any way), another just wants to do weird things (like boiling three dozen rats to poison a vat of foodstuff), one more simply wants his team mates to behave like normal human beings

The ideas are awsm btw I particularly like number 5. It'll force them to exercise lots of restraint. I like.

EDIT: ninja'd by hermit.


Ah yes, that's a great idea too. AFAIK nobody realizes yet that most cyber is totally hackable, and the PCs who have the related skills can 'help' them. If they want to *grin*

I wonder exactly how painful it would be to disable someone's wired reflexes system inhibitors.

As a GM I try to to make a point that there should be a role where each PC has their niche. Otherwise why be a team? Roles can double up, but should be avoided if possible. Second, gun-bunnies should outshine squishes in combat. Outside of combat (which in my games is the majority of the game) the other PC's will have more to do. So don't worry if cleaning out a house is dominated by the street sams. The others probably have already contributed via getting the information on the house, who the occupants are, what their reasons and figuring out if the Johnson is going to screw you over in the end.

This one may be a problem child. Homicidal I don't mind. But gun bunnies that turn tail at a little blood of their own are dangerous and will sell ya out.

If it seems stupid but it works, its not stupid.

Insane, completely freaking loopy. Put him down now.

Just kidding on the last one.

What? The first guy already shot and looted him?

Ooops.

....Hey I'm that guy you just got killed thanks a lot

You should invoke shadowrunner only rules.
Everyone should be able to reliably climb a fence, sneak past a dozing security guard, take that security guard in a fight, and get pulled over without the cops finding the body in the trunk.
It's not just the combat monsters here who are the problem. You are not a shadowrunner if an office clerk beats you in a fight, even if you're a technomancer.

To deal with the combat monsters, there have many good suggestions, and most of them might be successful. I prefer the plot train myself.

Set up a meet in the back room of a bar in the barrens. Have some guys in the main room who work for the Johnson try to drag the party into a fight. Try hard. And when they bite, have the Johnson not hire them, because he needs shadowrunners, not killing machines. Then tell the players "sorry, I don't have anything else ready to go. I guess we're done for the night." For most players this will teach the lesson faster than anything else. Young men and dogs only learn by being smacked on the nose.

If you, the GM, is not having a good time, what's the point. Spread the pain around a little, and see how it works.

That's probably the douchiest post I've seen since that one guy suggested rape as a solution for elf social adepts.

I did sort of wonder at the one about the office clerk, but it could have been a matter of circumstance. A rigger attempting to hack in and override the building security might not have noticed the clerk just walking up behind him and hitting him with a chair in time. But that situation would be more about lack of team work and coordinating some oversight on one another.

Or maybe the clerk had taken Exotic Melee weapon (Stapler). But yeah.....

Sorry, should have clarified the point. Any residue left behind could be used for Ritual Spellcasting to find and hit the targets at a distance.

I just used the examples of Azzies and toxics to show the nastier folk who could find you and do bad things through the sample, but even regular corporations could pay for a mage to reach out and touch someone with this if they really wanted to. Thankfully samples don't last long unless special measures are taken, but you get the idea.

Maybe you should shove your personal insults where they belong.

It's a pretty common theme in shadowrun. Out of control killers don't get jobs. Plenty of canned adventures have scenes exactly like that, but GMs will often bail out their players crappy play. I'm saying, "don't". You can have a big, pain in the butt conflict at the table OOC, or you can demonstrate the lesson IC.

There's a good chance you'll have a big, pain in the butt conflict at the table anyway unless your group is the patient types who are willing to put up with some Gygax in their soup. You're seriously advocating for dangling a fight in front of the players and then calling the session in order to teach people a lesson. How is that not passive aggressive?

I've found that most people on this board have a real problem having adult conversations with players at their tables. Not all of course, but a large number of the people who actually complain about their games on the board. Often the problem doesn't come from the GM's communications skills, but immature players. So, I'm assuming either the OP has a problem asserting his desires, or he just has a player who won't listen. So, his choices are, "continue to not have any fun", "fire a friend from the group, which has plenty of real world conflict issues", or "quit GMing". Or, find a different angle to attack the problem from. This is a different angle. And again, it is supported in multiple canned adventures and ALL of the fluff. If you are a psycho, no one will work with you.

It's also a system whose iconic introductory session is basically a convenience store brawl with the Baseball Furies. Look, it's a ttrpg game and everyone is basically acting on the honor system and hoping that the GM is willing to act in good faith to keep things fun. I get that us nerds don't like communicating outside of movie quotations but once you've reached the point where you're baiting people into shortened sessions because you're not having fun anymore then I'm afraid a drastic measure like talking to eachother is called for.

Okay, well good, they aren't complete idiots and you have the power to drive them off. Play upon that. Offer them some rich jobs and have the Johnson explicitely tell them they need to sneak in the place or con their way in. Have him tell them if they fail to do this, the police and security forces will arrive quite quickly and the mission will be a bust. (I recently ran a mission like this with the target being a rich hotel in Bellevue, which is a high class area) You can also throw in some things to challenge the bricks, like company men guards, spirits, and magicians with stun spells, but first the party must get inside by tricky means.

If they do it, reward them richly, in nuyen and karma. If they fail, tell them why they failed, and explain what they would have gotten with success. And yes, give them nothing, except perhaps a karma point for survival.

If successful, well they get offered more high paying jobs. If failure, well their next assignment is low paying and total pink mohawk in Auburn or the Barrens. Eventually offer them another rich job that requires some stealth or conning or both. I'm thinking these players will catch on, since they have at least learned to run like proper thieves. They'll want the higher payouts and they'll probaly get annoyed if the bricks constantly sabotage this. Even Mr. Loot Monkey will want the higher karma and loot.

On the subject of gases, try the old classic Seven-7.

http://www.eastereggproductions.com/srw/in...ns_and_Diseases

I don't think having the Mr. Johnsons of the world completely shut the runs down for the team is a good idea, because well the game must go on. Unless you can easily and want to find a new group. It's not uncommon for a Black Trenchcoat GM to be stuck with some Pink Mohawk players. I'm in a similar situation and these people are my actual friends. Also it can be hard to find a new group, as I found when I moved away for a while. Just pay less for ham handed runner parties. There's always someone hiring for stupid thugs and distraction dummies.

Oh, and make a big deal of the high paying gigs. Have the Johnson invite them somewhere fancier than they've ever been before, like the Eye of the Needle. Let them know this is their shot at the big time and not to blow it.

I'll suggest three things.

First, I'll also point out to the non squishy that part of Muscle's reputation is on how well they keep the squishy talent a live and bullet free.
The Mage keeps the magic off, the Decker hacks the system, and the Muscle keeps them alive from mundane attacks.
Mages are pretty damn rare and do no good for the run if in the ground or in a med bed.
Street Samurai that let their deckers get shot find it harder to get good matrix support (except remotely).
Get a rep for losing talent and you won't get any but the most crazy to work with you.

Second if you are going to run with the big boys you need to learn to not be squishy or you need to be a ghost and leave no trace.
Point out to the squishy that being a rigger in the shadows is going to require a lot more survival skills and streetwise then being a Corporate Security Rigger.
Part of the fun of Shadowrun is watching some one forced in to the Shadows learn the ropes of surviving out side their nice safe corporate cocoon.
So your squishy PCs had better start thinking about how to be more survivable or not getting in to these types of situations.
Hopefully the non squishy can provide support on this and also actively try to keep them out of center of firefights.

Finally have a frank discussion with the group on what style of game that everyone wants to run/play in and get some agreement on how to get there.
So many times a player will have one idea of what they want for the PC and the GM will have a totally different one.
Add in a few more players and it is like herding cats.

One thing I loved about the Champions game system is that the Advantage/Disadvantage system (Qualities in Shadowrun) practically wrote out a road map in black and white between the player and the GM of what types of bad things were going to happen to the PC Superhero during the game. Don't want your Aunt May taken hostage regularly then don't take her as a 30 point Dependent NPC.
Made it very easy for the GM and player to get on the same page.

It was still like herding Cats but at least the GM knew what each player was expecting from the game.

I assumed that whatever talking was going to be done happened before it became a topic on Dumpshock. Of course talk about it. Try to get everyone on the same page. If you can't, you're back to limited choices, and none of them good. So, before rage-quitting, try some low level manipulation.
If your etiquette isn't working, try negotiation, then con, then intimidate, then unarmed combat, then your automatics skill. Sometimes, IC or OOC, violence is necessary, but it should always be the last step in an escalation.

This is common behaviour on part of the player himself. The group currently plays 3 different game systems and campaigns and he behaves the same way in all of them. We've given up trying to rehabilitate him


Ah, it was a situational thing really, though still kinda stupid. The idiot sam had wandered into the shop carrying a TV he scavenged earlier to get the shop clerk to 'check out' because he didn't know what was broke. When he shut the power he tried to taser her (in total darkness, no vision modifications at all on his part) and he obviously missed, striking the counter. Like any normal human being the clerk ducks under the table and grabs the gun under the counter. Idiot sam decides to lunge over the counter to grab her but he tips over it instead, face first into a gun barrel. He took 8P of damage in that fight while flailing around his monofilament sword while prone, trying to kill her. Sigh.


Uhm, I think they'll just take it as bad GM preparation rather than realise that its a whack at them. Not exactly a tactic I would like to employ though.


Wow. ouch. That'd soak right in

The groups' ever only failed one job (I felt they had to, because unprofessional) but they were fairly bummed about it so I think they'll be slightly more careful about that.

I was thinking the other day of a job where they have to get into an Academy Awards type ceremony (they'll be 'invited as guests') and kill off a director onstage by making it look like an accident. No guns. Total utter discretion because national tv. If they manage it, much loots, but if they mess it up, they're probably going to have to skip the country


I think a sitdown is already in order. Cause everyone's ideas of 'fun' are all over the place. I'll give 'em a talking to when we next meet.

And herding cats. Is that a thing? I like that phrase.

Ohhh, there's a story behind that. I wanna hear it.



Well, if the new guy requested a character rebuild, I sure hope you let him do it! Sometimes a player may find out that his character's build isn't working out for him, and unlike real life choices, we play these games to have fun, not to get the consequences of our choices rammed up our asses.

First question: Are the new players coming in at the same amount of Karma as the older ones? If not, there's part of your problem right there, same as if you tried to let someone bring a level 3 Bard into a party of level 7 Orc Barbarians and Fighters. (The other part would be letting anyone play a bard. )

Second: What did the "Squishes" build? They're probably not going to get to act first if the combat monsters are, well, combat monsters, but you can always try throwing some more appropriate enemies at the squishies while the combat monsters are engaged with bigger threats.

Thirdly: Have the squishies offered a job that needs a subtle touch. Not the whole team, just the squishies. Tell them they're free to recruit whatever aid they deem necessary in whatever capacity is necessary, but that making a huge mess that draws attention to their actions will result in no payment.

For example: Mr. Johnson has a vested interest in seeing a specific line of soft drinks, which is due to test-launch in certain local markets for a two-month trial period, fail miserably. Mr. Johnson does not care about the body count one way or another - if everyone who drinks it drops dead, fine, if one out of ten cans contains a free dose of jellyfish stringers that puts everyone who drinks it in the hospital, fine, if the general public just thinks it tastes like shite and you literally have to pay people to get them to drink it, also fine. However, if the company knows about (and worse, can prove) tampering with the product (such as, say, the bricks beating in the door to the factory,) you're not getting so much as a single nuyen out of him.

The product line's success or failure will be measured by both public reviews that wind up on the Matrix and targeted feedback from those who buy it in the form of surveys sent to those who purchase them.


This is a nice, open-ended job with a lot of leeway for players to get creative on. They could sabotage the product at its local manufacturing point, they could sabotage it at its point-of-sale trial markets, hell, they could buy up the lion's share of the product themselves and write in evil reviews, or steal it in shipment so it never gets sold. However, if the company which makes it detects the overt attempt to sabotage the campaign, then Mr. Johnson walks away and nobody gets a single nuyen, so an overt assault on their factory is out, even if they taint the whole product line with ultralethal venom or blow the factory sky-high. However, there should be plenty for the bricks to do if the group goes with a more clever approach: a few hijacked Stuffer Shack trucks won't tweak the company's radar just because their product "happened to be" on those trucks.

Alternatively, the squishies could leave the bricks in the dark and pull a stealth job on the factory. It's up to them. But if the Bricks go off the handle and wreck things, they get no money.

I agree that the point is to have fun.
I always tell my new players that we will review the PC after a couple of sessions so nothing is written in stone.

PC can often end up totally different from what you were expecting.
Some times it is the needs of the team driving it some times the PC just ends up with a different personality.

I tell my players that as a team of Shadowrunners, their PC should complement the other teammates.
The whole should be greater than the sum of its parts.

Gives them a reason to work together until they have created enough common enemies that they don't have a choice.

Plus I like the negative quantities to reflect what the player is expecting to have happen to the PC, so I'm fine with adjusting them to match the history.

I'm actually waiting to hear from a player's perspective. Most of the time, here on Dumpshock, we hear from the GM. There's almost always 2 stories to hear.

I have seen several GMs say that their forbid their players from coming here hehe, whether they listen or not idk, but I think theres good reason behind it XD. whether or not its their right to or not.

Yeah I did he's pretty happy with his build now, but I'll let him change it one more time if it still doesn't work out for him the next time we game cause he's new.

I give newbies coming in halfway about 50 karma to work with after creation so they can keep up with the rest of the guys, but ONLY if it's not a throwaway character. I don't like having too many of those around because it disrupts continuity =\

The squishies are two drone riggers, a medic and an Agent 47 sneaky type.


Heh I did the very same type of run a few weeks ago the players bickered for about half an hour about how to get around it before settling on a plan which went pear shaped the moment they got to the factory, though they were asked to be as discreet as possible. They still got a bit of pay despite screwing up the 'run because they always ask for half payment first.


As far as I know only one of my players is registered on the forum, I don't exactly stop them from visiting but most don't do so anyway out of laziness (or so they tell me)

Before I turned to GMing this group we were under a different GM who pretty much had the same problems as I did: overpowered PCs. Him trying to stop the most powerful players resulted in the whole infection thing he threw at the group earlier this year. The thread is floating around here somewhere, but it got locked due to uh, some disagreements.


When they have personality to start with or grow one at least I would very much like to run a more RP and character centric campaign but meh, they're simply not the type to really enjoy that.

Thanks for all the ideas so far, I got a lot of stuff to work with

Good luck.

I know how you feel.
And it sounds like are you stepping in to a situation which already has a lot of baggage.

I run my games Wednesday or Thursdays from about 06:30 PM to 10 PM.

Not really time to really get the ball rolling and let all players really get in to character.
By the time the ball is really rolling it is time to wrap up.
They are looking to let a little steam off and escape RL for a while.
I wish I could once in a while get a weekend game that lasted 6 hours or so like back in college, but scheduling is killer.

So I accept the limitations of the medium and keep things fast and simple.

I do try to lay it out to the players.
I tell players from the beginning that they need to expect to share the spotlight.
Don't step on another character's core concept don't hog the action.
The idea is that everyone gets some spotlight time and everyone has fun.

That means I expect the players to work together and take the other player's PCs in to consideration.
I also let them know what I'm looking for in the game.

Nice, I did the soda run too. My players skipped going to the factory entirely, completely blowing the time I spent laying out a floor plan and the security measures.

Pretty sure I cribbed the idea for an "open-ended but minimum notice" run from Dumpshock. Did your players solve the problem by sabotaging the stuff at the point-of-sale?

Yeah, they were hired to make a rival's soda launch fail in the test market. They looked at the factory in the middle of a corp zone and decided that stuffer shack probably had worse security. So they worked up an aerosolized spray of sickness and went around spraying the tops and sides of cans with it at various points of sale. I think they hit venting machines too. I don't remember what exactly the blend was, some ecoli, laxative, rat shit, and ipecac maybe?

Anyway, they hit about 10-15 locations (maybe more with the vending machines, they focused in the barrens) and then started posting on the matrix about how the new soda had made them super sick and pretty soon other people were reporting similar experiences. Eventually a news station or a health organization tested some of the cans and found the presence of rat shit. Needless to say, a PR nightmare for the company. And no shots fired.