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Joker9125
Im trying my first rigger and here he is. Please inform me of any glaring holes in character design

Race Dwarf

Attributes
Body 2
Quickness 6
Strength 3
Charisma 5
Intelligence 6
Willpower 6
Essence 2.15
Run Mult. 2
Magic 0
BioIndex 0
Reaction 6
Init. Dice 1

Pools
Combat 9
Control 10

Skills
Computer(INT) [4]
Computer B/R(INT) [3]
Electronics(INT) [4]
Electronics B/R(INT) [3]
Gunnery(INT) [5]
Gunnery B/R(INT) [3]
Car B/R(INT) [3]
Car(REA) [5]
Mechanical Arm Operation(REA) [3]
Rotor Aircraft(REA) [4]
Rotor Aircraft B/R(INT) [3]

Vehicle Ctrl Rig [2] E:3.00 sr3.302|Mods only apply when rigging
Skillwires [5] MP 75 E:1.00 sr3.302|
Smartlink II(A) E:0.40 mm.31|-2 to TNs for firing a Smartlink-II weapon, +2 Called Shot modifier
+ Pers. Smartlink Safety(A) E:0.00 mm.31|Safety on unless in contact with user
+ Range Finder(A) E:0.08 mm.32|w/SM2 Shows range to target. -1 TN to targets at Long range and -2 TN at Extreme range. Not compatible with other vision magnifications.
Smartlink Processor II(A) E:0.16 mm.31|
+ Eye Display(A) E:0.08 mm.31|
+ Lim. Simsense Rig(A) E:0.08 mm.31|
Expert Chipjack Dvr [3](A) E:0.24 mm.19|+3 Pool for Skillsofts
Datajack(A) E:0.16 sr3.298|
Datajack(A) E:0.16 sr3.298|
Router(A) E:0.08 mm.22|Connect internal cyberware, 10 ports max

Bioware
Enhanced Articulation BI:0.60 mm.066|+1RCT, 1 addt'l die to Combat, Physical, Technical,& B/R skill tests

Vehicles
GMC 4201

Type of Vehicle: Transports-Heavy

Handling Speed/Accel Body/Armor Signature/Autonav Pilot/Sensor
3/7 85/3 6/0 2/2 -/0
Cargo/Load Seating Firm Points Hard Points
130/6500 2d+1x

Features:
Weapons:
Rigger Adaptation Datajack Port

Others:
Remote Control Deck Rating[10]
Remote Control Deck Rating[10]
R-C Biofeedback Filter [3]
R-C ECCM Rating [6]
R-C Encryption Module [8]
Rigger Decryption Module [6]
Rigger Protocol Emulation [6]
Signal Amplifier [8]
Storage Memory 200Mp
BattleTac IVIS Master Unit
Hitcher Jack
Intercom System
Audio/Visual Screen Display
Clearsight [5]
Datalink [5]
Performance Profile [4]
Electronic Warfare [4]
Sharpshooter [5]

EDIT: Fixed a few things, but i still dont know what drones to get and im kinda out of cash at this point in CHAR GEN so if their is any cyberware or gear i could drop please tell me.

Redid the cyberware
Backgammon
You are so NOT going to be flying a semiballistic anytime soon, I'd drop that and invest in some stealth or something. You also have no combat personnal combat skills whatsoever... that's really risky.

No mention of drones, so I don't know about that.

Remember that cranial RCDs have lousy Flux, so you'll need to haul around power amplifiers.
Clyde
Your character also has a charisma of 3 and no social skills. Now maybe that's the kind of game you're playing but . . .

If you can't personally shoot people or beat them up, then maybe you want to work on talking them out of the idea of shooting you and beating you up wink.gif

You probably don't need as much in the Build/Repair skills, either. You can get mechanic contacts to do that nonsense for you. My guess is you can safely ditch computer b/r, rotor b/r, car b/r and so forth or at least scale them back. If all you do is drive cars and work on cars you're going to be in for some really boring game sessions . . . .
grendel
I would recommend against getting any mods to your cranial remote deck. In order to upgrade those you'll have to get additional surgery. If you want to do any EW stuff, just use your RCD. Also, I'd drop the mechanical arm skill unless you intend to specifically acquire drones with mechanical arms. It's just not that useful.
TinkerGnome
Was this done with priorities or points? If so, how did it break down and what restrictions are you under?

[edit]You're very, very overloaded on encryption. A rating 3 is good enough to start, and a rating 5 is virtually impossible to break (rating 10 decryption has a 9.06% change of cracking rating 5 encryption, and only 51.55% chance against rating 3).

I agree that I'd probably ditch a lot of the CRD stuff. No point in having all that junk packed into your head when you're not likely to need most of it. Consider doing the old obvious cyberleg thing with everything built into there if you really want to be mobile with it.
[/edit]
Joker9125
points system

Race Dwarf
Attribute 24
Skills 40
Resources 1,000,000 nuyen.gif
TinkerGnome
Your notation might be bad, but it looks like you're buying the smartlink II twice. Obviously, you only need it once.

Also, you're lacking a chipjack which you have to use with a CED.

Unless you have a specific reason, you probably don't need a heavy transport. The stuff in the van section (GMC Bulldog love.gif ) works pretty well and is a lot less conspicuous. It's also a good idea to have a secondary vehicle of some sort.

For drones, I recommend:

1 ground combat model (Lynx or Doberman generally)
1 blimp (Condor) w/ Sun Cell and ruthenium coating (if you can aford it)
1 mini drone (Renraku spiderdrone works) (another good one to ruthenium coat)

And the rest to taste.
Eyeless Blond
QUOTE
Skillwires [5] MP 75 E:1.00 sr3.302|

Don't make the same mistake I made! You only need skillwires rating 4 (48Mp) this early in the game; it's a whole lot cheaper, and with an expert driver you're rolling 7 dice with a rating 4 activesoft, which is usually plenty. There are more in-depth rules on skillwires and various other bits of applied simsense--which I wish I had read before making my character--in Canon Companion.

QUOTE
Expert Chipjack Dvr [3](A) E:0.24 mm.19|+3 Pool for Skillsofts

This is a chipjack modification; you need to specifically add this to a chipjack for it to do anything (See mm p. 19). Plus I'm not sure why you want it at all, as you have no Activesofts, Knowsofts or Liguisofts. Sure you can try and get some later, but that seems a bit metagamey to me.

Also get rid of the router; your two datajacks (and chipjack, if you get one) have more than enough ports on them to handle things already as you only have three seperate cyberware systems anyway. See page 46 in mm (Man and Machine) for details on interconnectivity and how routers/datajacks/chipjacks work.
Kagetenshi
You've got a Dwarf with Willpower 6. You might as well bump it up to 7 and take Sensitive Neural Structure 1, it's a free point of Willpower for anything non-ASIST related. Also, the value of Vehicle Empathy cannot be understated. I'd also drop the Gunnery B/R; with a proper contact you won't need it.

Connected 5 can also make cash much less tight.

~J
TinkerGnome
Oh, and you're generally restricted to rating 6/avail 8 on equipment during character gen. Your GM might be waiving this, but I just wanted to point it out.
A Clockwork Lime
You're actually a lot better off with Skillwires 3/37, CED 3, Multislot Chipjack, Datajack (to route everything together), and an Obvious Cyberhand or better with at least 1,000 Mp of DNI-ready OMC Memory. Total cost of all this is only 112,700 and 1.50 Essence.

With that setup, you can score some Customized Rating 3 ActiveSofts for 8,000 (13 Mp each) or Customized Rating 3 ActiveSofts with DIMAP 2 (37 Mp) for 26,880.

If you don't want or need the DIMAP, you can shave a lot of cash of your skillwires by going with 3/13, too. The ActiveSofts are only 800 more expensive than a standard Rating 4 ActiveSoft, but you're saving bigtime on the other components.

Also, is there any reason why you have four Remote Control Decks? Also, as a starting character, you're limited to a Rating 6 for each of them. So you're goign to need to basically redo all your gear anyway. smile.gif
Joker9125
Thanks everyone this really helps. Now if i can just get the rigging rules down. wobble.gif

EDIT: Id also like to be able to bring a fair ammount of combat, recon, and spy drones with me on runs any reccomendations on vehicle size?
Kagetenshi
Vector Kimji

Chassis: Micro UAV (Markup .25)

Power Plant: Electric Fuel Cell

DPV: 301

Final Cost: ¥7,525

Hand. 4, Speed 50, Accel 4, Body 0, Armor 0, Sig 12, Auto 0, Pilot 1, Sensor 1, Cargo 0, Load 0, Fuel EC (9 PF), Econ .25 Km/PF



Saeder-Krupp Schattenauge

Chassis: Miniblimp

Power Plant: Electric

DPV: 739

Final Cost: ¥36,950

Hand. 4, Speed 75, Accel 5, Body 2, Armor 0, Sig 10, Auto 0, Pilot 3, Sensor 6, Cargo 3, Load 15, Fuel E (65 PF), Econ 5 Km/PF

SunCell Power, Autosoft Interpretation System, Spotlight, Infrared Spotlight, Remote Control Interface, Rigger Adaptation

Variant: Schattenauge II

Above plus BattleTac FDDM Receiver Module (+350 DPV), total cost ¥54,450


Flamedrone:



Chassis: Small UAV (Markup .25)

Power Plant: Electric Fuel Cell

DPV: 199

Final Cost: ¥5,975

Hand. 4, Speed 40, Accel 3, Body 1, Armor 0, Sig 8, Auto 0, Pilot 1, Sensor 1, Cargo 0, Load 94, Fuel E (100 PF), Econ .2 Km/PF

Flamethrower (22 shots, SS, 8M) Spotlight, Infrared Spotlight, Remote-Control Interface, Rigger Adaptation


If you don't want to or can't use custom-made vehicles, it's all about the miniblimps and Strato-9s.

~J
Modesitt
I'll do what I can and keep intact whatever seems to work at first glance. I'm working off the assumption your character is a Rigger first and everything else second.

Drop the charisma by 2, raise willpower by 1.

Drop everything but Computer, Car, Electronics, Electronics B/R, Gunnery, and maybe Rotor aircraft. Change Computer to a Programming specialization, taking you to 3(5). Raise Car and Gunnery to 6, again maybe rotor aircraft. Take some Stealth, a personal combat skill of some kind(, and Etiquette(Street). B/R skills are for contacts, at most one per char(IE AR B/R for a sammy), or skillwires.

Drop the skillwires and, by extension, the chipjack expert driver. Pg. 27 Rigger 3, you can't use activesofts to drive a vehicle. Unless of course you have some other purpose in mind(Like...chipping B/R skills?), don't bother. Seriously consider some headware memory of some kind for recording recon from drones. Another good purchase is Microscopic Vision, drop the enhanced articulation if neccessary.

The availability and costs on the rest of your equipment is odd. The rating of all starting equipment is limited to 6, availabliity to 8. Both remote control decks(Why two?), the rating 8 encryption module and the rating 8 signal amp break that rule. Ditch all of the autosofts. For one, read pg. 44 Rigger 3. You can't use a higher rated autosofts than a drones pilot rating nor can you use more than twice their pilot rating at once on a particular drone. So unless you intend to waste a shitload of money and buy every drone you use up to Pilot 5, you're flushing money down the toilet with those autosofts. Better off using 1-2 rating ones for just a quick little boost to any drone you happen to be using.

Oh. Drones. My quick and dirty thoughts on drones if I was able to remake my current Rigger:

Your shopping list should be: A really tiny walker(Like the example spider drone), at least one flying drone and preferarably two just for recon(Miniblimps or rotodrone chasis), a third flying drone that has guns(Starto-9's are the classic, but other options exist), a small ground-based scout drone that is not tiny(IE can go along at a steady speed, such as the GCR-23C), and a ground-based combat monster like the Steel Lynx. If you've got some spare change, picking up some kind of water-based drone may be worthwile,

QUOTE
Also, the value of Vehicle Empathy cannot be understated


Yes it can.

If you are getting -1 handling from vehicle empathy, it means you are driving a car. The only time a rigger should be touching a car is if he absolutely MUST be physically present for a job(Rigger network and such) or if he's stealing a car. If you are stealing a car...generally you are already being forced to be physically present or you should be stealing it BEFORE a run and driving it to your mechanic to get fixed up with rigger adaption and a remote control interface.

I don't feel it to be worth it.
Kagetenshi
Your van is your most potent weapon thanks to the Ramming rules. It can't be understated. Oh, and Handling is TN for vehicle dodge, too.

If you're specializing in Computers, make sure it's Non-Matrix Programming, otherwise you'll have just screwed yourself out of a point of skill.

Skip the ground drone, they're almost worthless. Ground drones are for when you're defining the area of combat; if you're defending your warehouse, go ahead, but they're going to do absolutely nothing on an actual run.

If you're a dedicated Rigger, don't bother with personal combat skills. At all. Also, don't specialize in Street Etiquette unless you like waiting for a very very long time for anything remotely hard to get.

I'm directly contradicting a lot of what Modesitt is telling you; I get the feeling we're rather different styles of Riggers. Pick and choose what sounds best to you.

~J
TinkerGnome
I'll also offer the opinion that having your own B/R abilities is never a bad thing. Contacts are fine... but contacts cost a lot of cash which you could save and they're no faster. Downtime is downtime. It's not like you're doing anything else important. You can only work for so many hours a day, anyway, so contact upkeep and the like still fits in.

For in character reasons, I'd take your main vehicle skill's B/R as a real skill and take the rest as skillsofts. Don't try chipping driving skills. You might also want to invest in an ammunition shop and a few B/R skills for weapons. If you've got a weapon (like a rifle) on a drone with a low ROF and hard to get ammo (APDS, AV, etc) making your own might prove worthwhile since you'll have far more dice than you would for the etiquette test.

Specialization at character gen is only for skills you are 100% sure you only need one part of on a regular basis. It's too cheap to raise the specialization once you start playing to waste a point of general skill on it in most cases.

Part of what you need to do during character generation is figure out what the rest of the party is doing with their characters and help fill in the gaps. Riggers tend to have cash to play around with, so you can provide some party members with trancievers with the appropriate encryption level (for instance) or the like. As the rigger, you tend to be one of the prime coordinators of the party's efforts during the execution of the run, so plan for that.

For personal arms, take pistols. Buy a taser. Every time you jack in, you have the taser in hand because every rigger's worst nightmare is having a fire elemental materialize inside his van while he's ridding the machine and eat him. This way, you might have some kind of chance. Also make sure the mage wards your van at the earliest opportunity. Very helpful.
Kagetenshi
Are fire elementals in any way immune or resistant to fire? I've forgotten...

~J
TinkerGnome
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Are fire elementals in any way immune or resistant to fire? I've forgotten...

Oddly enough, no.
Kagetenshi
Score. Then my current method of always having my blowtorch nearby will still work smile.gif

~J
Modesitt
QUOTE
If you're specializing in Computers, make sure it's Non-Matrix Programming, otherwise you'll have just screwed yourself out of a point of skill.


...Non-matrix programming? As far as I know, there's just Programming and it applies to both the bonuses Riggers receive(pg 157 BBB, right column). It explicitly says the Programming specialization of the Computer skill. I also just opened up Matrix 3 and it refers to the Programming specialization of the Computer skill. Not 'Matrix Programming', Programming. Random side note - As the main purpose of your computer skill is for bonus dice on comprehension tests, unless you intend to program on the side, just take it to 5.

QUOTE
Skip the ground drone, they're almost worthless. Ground drones are for when you're defining the area of combat; if you're defending your warehouse, go ahead, but they're going to do absolutely nothing on an actual run.


I really have to disagree that they do nothing, although this definitely is campaign flavored. In my current campaign, I've wished for a combat drone...once, but previous campaigns all put me in situations(Such as just staging a full-on frontal assault of something like a minor corporation through the front door or setting down on a roof and working our way down a few floors) where having some serious ground-based firepower was in my favor. I really, REALLY don't like the possible consequences of failing a crash test indoors with some sort of flying drone.

In addition, I'm sorry about what the rules say about the benefits to doing so BUT I AM NOT BRINGING A FUCKING MINI-BLIMP INTO A BUILDING FOR KILLING PEOPLE. I generally hate using GM fiat in any sort of argument, but I think mini-blimps were balanced on the assumption that they are so inherently uncool that your GM would automatically give you penalties to Etiquette tests to represent the total laughing stock you have become because you are part of a highly-trained team of specialists whose training and skills often verge on making Special Forces operatives seem like preschoolers stealing cookies from the cookie jar AND YOU ARE USING A BLIMP.

QUOTE
If you're a dedicated Rigger, don't bother with personal combat skills. At all. Also, don't specialize in Street Etiquette unless you like waiting for a very very long time for anything remotely hard to get.


I can't stress enough that lacking some kind of combat skill is just bad ju-ju. It's absolutely asking for situations where you can't bring a drone/deck, such as a meet in a restraunt.

As for the second part - I was almost CERTAIN I read a rule somewhere saying you rolled etiquette(Street) when trying to get equipment, but I'm either remembering some other test calling for that or cutting a memory from whole cloth. I'll post if I stumble across it while looking up something else.
Eyeless Blond
What ground drones are really good for is for building infiltration; they really don't have the heft to carry many good weapons and armor. Check out the infiltration rigger we've got in the Infiltration Challenge thread for what is IMO the greatest ground drone loadout ever conceived (about a third of the way down.) Of course keep in mind that I'm pretty new at the game (see my join date? That was two weeks after I first laid eyes on the rulebooks nyahnyah.gif) so take this with a grain of salt.
Kagetenshi
Hrm. I would think most appropriate Etiquette skill would be rolled; if it is Street, I withdraw my previous statement about it.

I'm pretty sure it's a Non-Matrix Programming specialization. *Digs for books*

Just looked it up, and you're right, it's not specified. I think a previous thread spread that particular bit of disinformation. Thanks, that'll save me some karma down the line... vegm.gif

As for the miniblimp thing, miniblimps are cool. How cool? Signature 10 cool. I agree that they aren't great for bringing into a building, though; that's when to pull out the rotodrones of death. After all, in a building setting, the whole main advantage of a miniblimp is negated. Hard to miss one sailing down the hall...

The whole combat skill thing is a matter of taste. My Rigger doesn't actually go to meets, she attends via a spiderdrone in another character's pocket. I am, admittedly, picking up some skill for using her blowtorch as a weapon, but I didn't have it at chargen.

So yeah. I get the feeling, as I said before, that what we're saying is true for our respective campaigns. Hopefully poor Joker will be able to sort out what's most appropriate for him smile.gif

~J

Edit: regarding the infiltration challenge, the drone loadout isn't bad, but the presentation is godawful! I'm guessing that was done in a word processor and then copy/pasted?

Edit^2: Raiko's presentation is better.
Joker9125
Here is my revised Rigger hopefully this one dosent have any huge glaring holes in the design I have 194,135 nuyen.gif left any suggestions on drones?

Race: Dwarf

Attributes
Body 2
Quickness 6
Strength 3
Charisma 5
Intelligence 6
Willpower 7
Essence 0.48
Run Mult. 2
Magic 0
BioIndex 0.6
Reaction 7
Init. Dice 1

Pools
Combat 9
Control 10

Edges/Flaws
Connected Lev II 5
Connected 3
Bonus Attribute Point(WIL) 2
Vehicle Empathy 2
Phobia Com & Mild->Clowns -3
Allergy Com & Mild->Cotton Candy -3
Sensitive Neural Struct. -2
Uncouth -2
Impulsive -2


Armor
Type Conc Ball Imp
X:Form-fitting Full-Body Suit DwMod 12 4 1
X:Secure Clothing DwMod 12 3 0
X:Secure Ultra-Vest DwMod 14 3 2

Active Skills
Etiquette(CHA) [4]
Computer(INT) [4]
Electronics(INT) [4] ]
Small Unit Tactics(INT)/Vehicle Tactics [2/4]
Gunnery(INT) [5]
Car(REA)/Remote Operations [3/5]
Fixed-Wing Aircraft(REA)/Remote Operations [3/5]
Rotor Aircraft(REA)/Remote Operations [3/5]
Tracks(REA)/Remote Operations [3/5]
Walkers(REA)/Remote Operations [3/5]

Knowledge Skills
ST:Arms Dealers(KNO) [3]
ST:Scrounging(KNO) [5]
ST:Seattle Junkyards(KNO) [4]
ST:Shadowrunner Haunts(KNO) [3]
ST:Smuggler Havens(KNO) [4]
ST:Smuggling Routes(KNO) [4]
ST:Safehouse Locations(KNO) [4]
ST:NAN Border Patrol Tactics(KNO) [3]
English(LAN) [3]
English(LAN) (RW) [1]
Chinese(LAN) [1]
Japanese(LAN) [2]
Japanese(LAN) (RW) [1]
Sperethiel(LAN) [2]
Sperethiel(LAN) (RW) [1]
Spanish(LAN) [1]

Weapons
AK-98 Smart2 (AsRf) DwMod Grenade Launcher (6-shot) Smart2 4
+ Sound Suppresser DwMod
+ Gas Vent IV DwMod
+ Under Barrel Weight DwMod
+ Flash Light (Standard) DwMod
Great Dragon ATGM Smart2 (GATGM) DwMod Optical Imaging Scope(2) Smart2 2
(yes i remembered to buy ammo)

Cyberware
Vehicle Ctrl Rig [2]
Skillwires [4] MP 48
Datajack(A)
MultiSlot Chipjack 4(A)
Expert Chipjack Dvr [3](A)
Expert Chipjack Dvr [3](A)
Smartlink II
+ Pers. Smartlink Safety
+ Range Finder
+ Eye Display
+ Lim. Simsense Rig

Bioware
Enhanced Articulation

Gear
SkillSoft Jukebox 144MP 3ports
ActiveSoft Gen. [4]-> Mechanical Arm
ActiveSoft Gen. [4]-> DwModCar B/R
ActiveSoft Gen. [4]-> DwModWalker B/R
ActiveSoft Gen. [4]-> DwModTracks B/R
ActiveSoft Gen. [4]-> DwModRotor Aircraft B/R
ActiveSoft Gen. [4]-> DwModAssault Rifles
ActiveSoft Gen. [4]-> DwModLaunch Weapons

GMC Bulldog Step-Van

Type of Vehicle: Vans

Handling Speed/Accel Body/Armor Signature/Autonav Pilot/Sensor
4/8 85/4 4/2 2/2 -/0
Cargo/Load Seating Firm Points Hard Points
50/1200 1+1b

Features:
Folding Bench Seat
Weapons:
Cont. Manu. Contr. [6] Rigger Adaptation
APPS
Crash Cages
Anti-Theft System [6]
White-Light
Medium-Range Infared
Library Transponder Chip [6]
Photovoltaic Chameleon Paint
Morphing License Plate

Others:
Drone Rack
Remote Control Deck Rating [6]
Remote Control Deck Rating [6]
R-C Biofeedback Filter [3]
R-C ECCM Rating [6]
R-C Encryption Module [6]
Rigger Decryption Module [6]
Rigger Protocol Emulation [6]
Signal Amplifier [6]
Storage Memory 200Mp
BattleTac IVIS Master Unit
Intercom System
Hitcher Jack
Audio/Visual Screen Display
Eyeless Blond
Hoo boy.

QUOTE (Joker9125)
Essence 0.48
[...]
BioIndex 0.6

You're running into excessive bioware here. That is very much a not-good thing. Think hard about reworking your cyberware a little.

QUOTE
Edges/Flaws
Connected Lev II  5
Connected  3
Bonus Attribute Point(WIL)  2
Vehicle Empathy  2
Phobia Com & Mild->Clowns -3
Allergy Com & Mild->Cotton Candy -3
Sensitive Neural Struct.  -2
Uncouth  -2
Impulsive  -2

If I were your GM, every run would involve circus clown Johnsons asking you to invade Barnum and Bailey. nyahnyah.gif Also, unless Connected and the Connected Lev II are applied to different areas, you only need the level II Edge. I'd also ditch Vehicle Empathy, as you're probably not going to be driving anything by hand with a Handling of more than 3-4 anyway, and probably closer to 2.

QUOTE
Fixed-Wing Aircraft(REA)/Remote Operations [3/5] 
Rotor Aircraft(REA)/Remote Operations [3/5] 
Tracks(REA)/Remote Operations [3/5]
Walkers(REA)/Remote Operations [3/5]

Eh. I'd get rid of all of these (except maybe Rotor Aircraft, and just default to Readtion for this. That's why you pay the big bucks for a VCR, right? biggrin.gif

QUOTE
English(LAN) [3]
English(LAN) (RW) [1]
Chinese(LAN) [1]
Japanese(LAN) [2]
Japanese(LAN) (RW) [1]
Sperethiel(LAN) [2]
Sperethiel(LAN) (RW) [1]
Spanish(LAN) [1]

Ugh. Unless you have a Mnemonic Enhancer you'll really want to condense these language skills, or spend some more Knowledge Skill points to beef them up a little. Having a language at 1 is basically useless.

QUOTE
Smartlink II
+ Pers. Smartlink Safety
+ Range Finder
+ Eye Display
+ Lim. Simsense Rig

With a VCR I think you can get away with not having the limited simrig (anyone care to correct me/back me up on this?). Since you don't have an induction pad for the thing anyway I don't think you can use a personalized safety either, nor do you need the eye display unless you're planning on firing weapons personally, as opposed to through a vehicle. If you are consider getting an image link instead.

QUOTE
R-C Encryption Module [6]

Look over the rules for encryption modules again. I'm pretty sure you can get away with rating 5; it's cheaper and has no appreciable difference in value.
Entropy Kid
edit: redundant
tjn
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
QUOTE (Joker9125)
Essence 0.48
[...]
BioIndex 0.6

You're running into excessive bioware here. That is very much a not-good thing. Think hard about reworking your cyberware a little.

It's 3 + Essence before going over into the really bad areas. He can cram 2.87 more Bio Index without running into said areas.

Still, with that low of essence, he has, I think, -3 to NPC reactions.
Eyeless Blond
Ah, that's right. I keep forgetting about that +3 difference. Still, it seems kinda silly to take all the drawbacks of bioware without at least picking up close to 2.00 Bio index.

(Edit): Well, he's already got Uncooth and no Negotiation skills, so it's not really like he's going to be a Face any time soon. At least he picked up a few points in Ettiquite, though.
Entropy Kid
QUOTE
Still, with that low of essence, he has, I think, -3 to NPC reactions.
Cyberware and Social Interaction (pg 93 SR3) explains the penalties for Charisma linked skills because of cyberware. I don't think he has anything that would cause more than a +1TN if any penalty at all. All any NPC should ever see are the datajack and maybe the chipjack.
tjn
I guess it all depends on the GM, so you should probably check with your GM about how he handles Essence loss in his games.

QUOTE (SR3 pg 93)
Gamemasters may reflect this in game play with the following modifier to Charisma and Charisma-linked skills: +1 to all target numbers for every 2 points of Essence (or portion there of above .5) below the normal Essence Attribute of 6.


Which would be a +3 to his TNs in this case. However it goes on to state:

QUOTE
The gamemaster may adapt these modifiers based upon the visability of the cyberwae or its effects. For cyberware that is invisable to normal senses, such as headware memory, skillsofts, cortex bombs and the like, the +1 modifier may not apply at all.


IMO, VCR's and Skillwires are fairly intrusive and dehumanizing. Thus the TN penalty. Opinions will differ, but at the end it states:

QUOTE
However, the gamemaster should always apply a minimum modifier of +1 for a character with Essence loss greater then 2.5, unless circumstances are exceptional.


One could read exceptional many ways. Personally, I'd probably limit that to deltaware.
Entropy Kid
QUOTE
IMO, VCR's and Skillwires are fairly intrusive and dehumanizing.
A Cyberpunk player maybe? nyahnyah.gif As described, the social skill penalty is caused by how the characters look. The 2 points Essence to 1 TN increase is just a mechanic to judge the scale of negative reaction. If cyberware was dehumanizing, then why would the penalties suddenly decrease when talking to tech heads about a "newsheet devoted to cutting-edge cybertech," but jump up again when talking with someone that would "shudder at the very thought of implanting metal into a living body."

Of course it isn't completely consistent, since apparently GMs should "always apply a minimum modifier of +1 for a character with Essence loss greater than 2.5...."

QUOTE
One could read exceptional many ways. Personally, I'd probably limit that to deltaware.
Going by the description, I view that as cyberware (not including datajacks which are usually ignored anyway) that can't be percieved or when dealing with a bunch of cyberware junkies.

I only started playing SR with the third edition, so I don't know if there used to be rules about cyberware causing a character innate (not related to others' reaction) social problems. IMO the list of cyberware the proposed character had is nothing that would bother anyone used to cyberware.
shadd4d
The rules were originally in cybertechnology (what else can you say about a book offering 1) cyberskull and torso, 2) massive amounts of cyberware?). If these rules aren't in the core book, they're in M&M.

The out of sight, out of mind rule of thumb works okay, until you get to cyberware that is invisible yet quite visible, i.e. wired reflexes, some cybereyes, etc.

OTOH, just go buy some tailored pheromenes. Solves a few problems.

Don
tjn
QUOTE (Entropy Kid)
QUOTE
IMO, VCR's and Skillwires are fairly intrusive and dehumanizing.
A Cyberpunk player maybe? nyahnyah.gif

Actually, not really. I draw most of my thoughts about this subject from some of the themes that Shadowrun explores (which crosses over into some of the themes Cyberpunk explores as well). Plus it makes logical sense from my perspective.

QUOTE
As described, the social skill penalty is caused by how the characters look.


And how they act as well. No one can see wired reflexes. But twitch monsters are still frightening. Especially given some of the examples and how that can blow out of proportion. (Like say, having a Sammie blow out a kid's brains making it's way to the scream sheets).

IMO, VCR's allow the Rigger to completely become something else completely, be it car, drone, or what have you. That has to have an effect on a persons point of view, enough to be odd compared to a "normal" person.

Skillwires aren't as bad as that, but the character is still dealing with mentally having no clue how he pulled off whatever he's slotting. In my mind, that would be disorienting enough to be percieved as odd from a "normal" person. It probably wouldn't apply when the PC's not chipping though.

Plus chipping Charisma-linked skills seems kinda wrong without this penalty. Most Charisma-linked skills are more intutitive then learned. Though it wouldn't really matter when say... chipping Demolitions. grinbig.gif

QUOTE
The 2 points Essence to 1 TN increase is just a mechanic to judge the scale of negative reaction.  If cyberware was dehumanizing, then why would the penalties suddenly decrease when talking to tech heads about a "newsheet devoted to cutting-edge cybertech," but jump up again when talking with someone that would "shudder at the very thought of implanting metal into a living body."


Because the tech heads are either naive, blinded by their love of cyber, or know the character in question?

In my mind, anyone who knew about what cyber can do, would be wary of a chipped character. Cyber can make people very deadly, and there's always those stories from their uncle's mom's sister's hairdresser's cousin who was married to a guy that knew some guy that went mad from too much cyber.

If an NPC knows the PC is chipped, but doesn't know them well enough to mitigate some of that fear, that penalty would apply, IMO.

QUOTE
Of course it isn't completely consistent, since apparently GMs should "always apply a minimum modifier of +1 for a character with Essence loss greater than 2.5...."


That's the level of mitigation, IMO, after an NPC realizes the PC's not some whackjob who's going to kill him or go crazy, or both. nyahnyah.gif But there'd always be that basic, instinctual fear of the capability of a chipped to hell PC.

QUOTE
QUOTE
One could read exceptional many ways. Personally, I'd probably limit that to deltaware.
Going by the description, I view that as cyberware (not including datajacks which are usually ignored anyway) that can't be percieved or when dealing with a bunch of cyberware junkies.


That happens often enough to not qualify as exceptional circumstances in my opinion, but to each, their own.

QUOTE
I only started playing SR with the third edition, so I don't know if there used to be rules about cyberware causing a character innate (not related to others' reaction) social problems.  IMO the list of cyberware the proposed character had is nothing that would bother anyone used to cyberware.


Outside of cyberzombies, there were a few early adventures IIRC, that dealt with it. Anymore it seems to be restricted to cyberzombies as the direction of Shadowrun has evolved away from it's beginnings.

It's mostly been a roleplaying thing, as I explore some of the themes, rather then a rule based thing when rolling charisma skills. But each GM is different.
TinkerGnome
A few items. EB is right about encryption, you probably don't need more than a rating 3 (remember, you have to stick a module on every drone on your network or it's pointless, and those cost 5k x rating... maybe more for high ratings, I can't remember).

On the rest... I'd consider boosting Electronics or Electronics/warfare. It's about the only rigger v. rigger skill, and it's worth having. Ditch some of your vehicle skills, but keep the ones for the drones you're going to be using. Get some drones.

You want a mini-blimp with an upgraded sensor package. The drone's only purpose is to spot for the team. Adding weapons to these drones tends to be a bad idea for a lot of reasons, including Lethality Escallation (aka, what the players use the GM uses) but also because sensors 5 takes up most of the available cargo.

I'd agree that having a ground drone to do scouting isn't necessarily a bad thing. You also want the obligatory heavy combat drone with an LMG or other heavy weapon. Never underestimate the usefullness of a good grenade launcher, either.

An interesting double duty note. If you've got a descent computer skill and have a hope of one day scoring a cyberdeck as loot, you might want to install a reflex trigger on the VCR. That'd let you become a pretty descent decker one day.

On the essence thing... I'd proably agree that a guy with wired III is worth a +3 modifier (no other cyber). What would you give him if he turned off his reflexes with a reflex trigger? Also note that when dealing with most Johnsons and other shadowrunners, you should probably not provide penalties to social TNs at all.
shadd4d
If he turns it off, then he'd avoid the penalties for being wired. Check out Hatchetman's story about how he lived with wired reflexes and how he jumped multiple times and punched out his brother.

Don
TinkerGnome
QUOTE (shadd4d)
If he turns it off, then he'd avoid the penalties for being wired.

The social TNs or just the "twitchy" penalties in M&M?
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ Apr 27 2004, 01:51 AM)
I'd also ditch Vehicle Empathy, as you're probably not going to be driving anything by hand with a Handling of more than 3-4 anyway, and probably closer to 2.

Again, I disagree. Keeping Handling as low as possible is very important for doing those utterly insane vehicle things that Riggers love so much. Not to mention off-road Handling, if it ever comes into play.

QUOTE
QUOTE
Fixed-Wing Aircraft(REA)/Remote Operations [3/5] 
Rotor Aircraft(REA)/Remote Operations [3/5] 
Tracks(REA)/Remote Operations [3/5]
Walkers(REA)/Remote Operations [3/5]

Eh. I'd get rid of all of these (except maybe Rotor Aircraft, and just default to Readtion for this. That's why you pay the big bucks for a VCR, right? biggrin.gif


I tend to agree. Keep Rotor Aircraft and kick it up to 6; drop the others unless you're making them primary areas of focus.

QUOTE
QUOTE
English(LAN) [3]
English(LAN) (RW) [1]
Chinese(LAN) [1]
Japanese(LAN) [2]
Japanese(LAN) (RW) [1]
Sperethiel(LAN) [2]
Sperethiel(LAN) (RW) [1]
Spanish(LAN) [1]

Ugh. Unless you have a Mnemonic Enhancer you'll really want to condense these language skills, or spend some more Knowledge Skill points to beef them up a little. Having a language at 1 is basically useless.


Agreed. Also, try not to buy odd levels of Languages. Why do you know Sperethiel, anyway?

QUOTE
With a VCR I think you can get away with not having the limited simrig (anyone care to correct me/back me up on this?). Since you don't have an induction pad for the thing anyway I don't think you can use a personalized safety either, nor do you need the eye display unless you're planning on firing weapons personally, as opposed to through a vehicle. If you are consider getting an image link instead.


All correct.

~J
Eyeless Blond
Well certainly the twitchy penalties, but also I'd argue the social ones as well. Erring on the side of higher social modifiers for cyberware is IMO a really bad thing, to the extent that I think that only pieces with obvious surface chrome (other than datajacks) should count for social modifiers. This I think should go down to a minimum of +1 for greater than 2.5 Essence loss, because at that point you've lost enough of yourself that you just start to feel less alive, and it shows on your face.

If you go out of your way to penalize the cybered up guys on social interactions you're just encouraging the troll with Vindictive and Uncooth and Ugly and Doesn't Care Flaws. I mean, a +3 makes social situations pretty much impossible for them anyway, so they might as well just go with it and make themselves monsters, right? I mean, if you have to throw 4 times as many dice just to have comparable chances of wnning
tjn
Well if the player is only concerned about "winning" I've got better things to do with my time.

The +3 for those riding the razor's edge is a guideline IMO. I don't role out social encounters, the character's Charisma, the modifiers, and roleplaying all make an amalgam as to how I feel an NPC should respond.

It might not work for others, but this theme was one of those that attracted me to shadowrun, and I'm not about to sacrifice it nyahnyah.gif

Now, if a player came to me with said troll... I'd slap him in the face with a fish and ask him where his real character was.
Eyeless Blond
Ugh, I have such a long rant in of me about using roleplaying to determine the results of Charisma skills (which for some inane stupid reason doesn't apply to any other aspect of a game... gah!), but this is definately not the thread for that.

To me, a +3 modifier due to cyberware might as well already be an "Ugly and Doesn't Care" Flaw, and an Uncooth Flaw is just a very small next step. I'm not saying necessarily that the guy has no skill points put into Ettiquite and such, but with a +3 you're almost already gauronteed to fail nearly all opposed tests, so (IC reasoning here) what's the point in being social if noone wants to talk to you?
Kagetenshi
It is used for other skills. Just because someone has Stealth 6 doesn't mean that if a player declares that they sneak up on someone who is paying attention in broad daylight by just walking up the street towards them doesn't mean the GM won't declare that they fail. Solely using roleplaying for Charisma-based skills is an abomination, but a mix is appropriate and far from restricted to Charisma skills.

~J
Lantzer
QUOTE (tjn)
Now, if a player came to me with said troll... I'd slap him in the face with a fish and ask him where his real character was.

What do you keep your fish in? I find that if I use tupperware my gaming stuff starts to smell like fish. Its a very penetrating scent... nyahnyah.gif
Joker9125
The character concept I had in mind was an unkept dwarf who spent all his time with his "babies" leaving little time for the inconviences of life like showering or laundry and rarely talked to anyone who wasnt one of his contacts or a member of his team.

That being said now here what id like for him to be able to do.

I plan on getting 2 cars 1 for myself and my drones and gear and another rigged one for transporting the runners on my team. As far as drone capabalities go Id like to be able to send out some fast flying ones that can to strafing runs against the opposition, Id like to be able to monitor the overall area and scout, and be able to send in a combat drone in with the team if need be(something versitile that can go up stairs so im kinda thinking walkers).

With that out of the way, any suggestion on making this happen? if its even possible.

P.S. He also had an unplesant expirence at a circus when he was a kid that he well....ummm.... dosent really like to talk about.
TinkerGnome
If you want a walker, it has to be pretty much a custom job. If you GM allows that, it's not hard to create wink.gif
Joker9125
ahhh...thanks but without doing a custom job what drones would be able to go up stairs? Any tips on active skills that would allow me to do all that I want to with my rigger.
TinkerGnome
Some tracked and/or wheeled drones should be able. I can't remember what the exact styling is (I don't have a copy of the relevant book hand) on the Steel Lynx, but I seem to recall it having wheeled legs that could raise to get over terrain like stairs, etc.
Joker9125
Ahhh isnt the settl Lynx like the doberman. So shouldnt a doberman also be able to do it?

Man I really should be doing my take home Final and redoing my art project instead of posting here wobble.gif
TinkerGnome
Sort of, they have different roles, though. In general, I'd allow any wheeled drone of body 2 or better to climb stairs at their offroad handling rating.
Joker9125
Race: Dwarf

Attributes
Body 2
Quickness 6
Strength 3
Charisma 5
Intelligence 6
Willpower 7
Essence 0.48
Run Mult. 2
Magic 0
BioIndex 0.6
Reaction 7
Init. Dice 1

Pools
Combat 9
Control 10

Edges/Flaws
Connected Lev II 5
Connected 3
Bonus Attribute Point(WIL) 2
Vehicle Empathy 2
Phobia Com & Mild->Clowns -3
Allergy Com & Mild->Cotton Candy -3
Sensitive Neural Struct. -2
Uncouth -2
Impulsive -2
(What should my contacts be for a rigger? Yes I am a total Noob at this character type. Im thinkng that, yes the two connected contacts will be in different areas one for vehicles and another for drones if in fact those are 2 contacts if not ill drop the level 3 edge)


Armor
Type Conc Ball Imp
X:Form-fitting Full-Body Suit DwMod 12 4 1
X:Secure Clothing DwMod 12 3 0
X:Secure Ultra-Vest DwMod 14 3 2

Active Skills
Etiquette(CHA) [4]
Computer(INT) [4]
Electronics(INT) [4]
Small Unit Tactics(INT)/Vehicle Tactics [2/4]
Gunnery(INT) [5]
Car(REA)/Remote Operations [3/5]
Rotor Aircraft(REA)/Remote Operations [3/5]
LTA Aircraft(REA)/Remote Operations [3/5]
Fixed-Wing Aircraft(REA)/Remote Operations [3/5]
Walkers(REA)/Remote Operations [3/5]

Knowledge Skills
ST:Arms Dealers(KNO) [3]
ST:Scrounging(KNO) [5]
ST:Seattle Junkyards(KNO) [4]
ST:Shadowrunner Haunts(KNO) [3]
ST:Smuggler Havens(KNO) [4]
ST:Smuggling Routes(KNO) [4]
ST:Safehouse Locations(KNO) [4]
ST:NAN Border Patrol Tactics(KNO) [3]
English(LAN) [3]
English(LAN) (RW) [1]
Chinese(LAN) [2]
Chinese(LAN) (RW) [1]
Japanese(LAN) [2]
Japanese(LAN) (RW) [1]
Sperethiel(LAN) [2]
Sperethiel(LAN) (RW) [1]

(He knows Sperethiel for 2 reasons. 1 elves are a fav among my group and 2 im kinda thinking he did smuggling runs into and out of the Tir before he meeting his current team)

Weapons
AK-98 Smart2 (AsRf) DwMod Grenade Launcher (6-shot) Smart2 4
+ Sound Suppresser DwMod
+ Gas Vent IV DwMod
+ Under Barrel Weight DwMod
+ Flash Light (Standard) DwMod
Great Dragon ATGM Smart2 (GATGM) DwMod Optical Imaging Scope(2) Smart2 2
(yes i remembered to buy ammo)

Cyberware
Vehicle Ctrl Rig [2]
Skillwires [4] MP 48
Datajack(A)
MultiSlot Chipjack 4(A)
Expert Chipjack Dvr [3](A)
Expert Chipjack Dvr [3](A)
Smartlink II

Bioware
Enhanced Articulation

Gear
SkillSoft Jukebox 144MP 3ports
ActiveSoft Gen. [4]-> Mechanical Arm
ActiveSoft Gen. [4]-> DwModCar B/R
ActiveSoft Gen. [4]-> DwModWalker B/R
ActiveSoft Gen. [4]-> DwModTracks B/R
ActiveSoft Gen. [4]-> DwModRotor Aircraft B/R
ActiveSoft Gen. [4]-> DwModAssault Rifles
ActiveSoft Gen. [4]-> DwModLaunch Weapons

Vehicles
GMC Bulldog Step-Van

Type of Vehicle: Vans

Handling Speed/Accel Body/Armor Signature/Autonav Pilot/Sensor
4/8 85/4 4/2 2/2 -/0
Cargo/Load Seating Firm Points Hard Points
50/1200 1+1b

Features:
Folding Bench Seat
Weapons:
Cont. Manu. Contr. [6] Rigger Adaptation
APPS
Crash Cages
Anti-Theft System [6]
White-Light
Medium-Range Infared
Library Transponder Chip [6]
Photovoltaic Chameleon Paint
Morphing License Plate

Others:
Drone Rack
Remote Control Deck Rating [6]
Remote Control Deck Rating [6]
R-C Biofeedback Filter [3]
R-C ECCM Rating [6]
R-C Encryption Module [3]
Rigger Decryption Module [6]
Rigger Protocol Emulation [6]
Signal Amplifier [6]
Storage Memory 200Mp
BattleTac IVIS Master Unit
Intercom System
Hitcher Jack
Audio/Visual Screen Display

Land Rover Model 2046(Van)

Type of Vehicle: Sport Utility Vehicles

Handling Speed/Accel Body/Armor Signature/Autonav Pilot/Sensor
3/5 100/7 4/0 2/2 -/0
Cargo/Load Seating Firm Points Hard Points
11/750 2+3b

Features:
3 Folding Bench Seats
Weapons:
Rigger Adaptation
Others:
Intercom System

Drones(all stock)
GM-Nissan Doberman
Steel Lynx Ground Combat Drone
Lone Star Strato-9 Surv. Drone
A.S. Condor LDSD-41
Sikorsky-Bell Microskimmer II

EDIT: Just want to say thanks to everyone for the input its really saving me alot of time and trouble.
Eyeless Blond
I still say that encryption can go down to 5, and that you probably should drop a few of those aircraft piloting skills in favor of other skills, but you're looking good now. By the by, how many contacts have you bought? Riggers, like deckers, should have more than two fixers, just to be safe, and riggers need a mechanic or two to help them out with stuff they can't fix on their own/don't have the tools to fix on their own. You might also want some informants on the payroll, although you're going to have plenty to do already on the legwork side of things. Contacts are very important things to have, L1 and L2, and a well-connected rigger like you really should have several fixers to make those Edges meaningful.
A Clockwork Lime
I still can't figure out why you have two RCDs.

I'd probably drop your Walkers skill and just rely on the drone's Pilot for maneuvering it. Little guys like that are the last thing you'd want to be driving first hand just in case someone steps on one by accident. Dumpshock's a bitch. Same goes for most of your drones. Choose one particular type that you would most want to jump into in the middle of combat, and go with that one. Screw the rest of the personal skills and trust in their Pilot ratings to do the work for you. Remember, if you default from Reaction you'll only be suffering a +2 TN penalty things to the rig, and I believe that's reduced by another -2 for your Level 2 rig.

Unless you're a dedicated drone rigger who never plans on ever ever getting behind the wheel, take Cars without the Remote Operations specialization. It's well worth it.

Computers won't be much help to you, either, unless you plan on doing a lot of programming or decking. If anything, go with Computers B/R with a specialization in Hardware (2/4 is what I'd recommend at most) for the installtion of onboard systems and whatnot. I'd probably ditch that and just crank Electronics B/R up and live with the minor +2 TN penalty.

...which leads back to your implants. Get Microscopic Vision and a Math SPU 3. They're a wise investment for any tech-type, and you'd be surprised how often you can use Math as a complimentary skill in those fields.

There's a few other things, but those are the biggies that jumped out at me.
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