If you have an APC use it.... It also seems like from the rules that you could use your decker to paint enemy nodes with aros or and basicaly see them through walls and what not.

In 3rd ed there was actually a skill that allowed you to increase your team's combat dice pool. Small unit tactics as I recall.

In SR4 there is a mechanic that lets you increase your combat DP's... it is called a Tacnet.

I'll second/third that.... having *WELL DONE* tacnets which were worth the time and effort to hack and protect as an integral part of the rules would have been awesome.

Not the abortion of an abuse that the SR4 version was. (yeah I'll take +4 dice to pretty much anything combat related...).


I would be all for things like a smartlink only gives limited benefit unless attached to a tacnet. Even things like visual enhancement make sense if they have conditional bonuses tied to a tacnet subscription. This generic and open simply wireless enabled nonsense is what is so contrived.

Quite frankly... everything is wireless is a boondoggle... replacing 'matrix bonuses' with 'tacnet bonuses' then providing some good reason to run it would have done wonders. We might have even seen an old 'archetype' come back out.. the battle-tac street sam... focused on combat and networking headware.

So people are getting upset because the dystopian future got darker and scarier with the megacorps actively doing more to make the lives of everyone outside of their direct influence more miserable and under their control?

I don't think that's it. People who play SR generally like dystopias.

1. It's the fact that we were only given the Corporate system, fully in place, and the world as we are given hasn't reacted at all. And we know there's people out there like pirates and Neo-archists who WOULD react, and provide solutions to those who wanted to escape corp control. There are at least rules for hacking equipment such as guns, but it's pretty barebones.

2. Many of the Online bonuses seem silly to nearly the entire playerbase. There are differeing amounts of tolerance for the Online bonuses. For example, nearly everyone hates the free action/equipment bonuses, because there seems no reason why a PAN couldn't do the same thing. (Even if you assume it takes no time to send data to the Cloud and back, it makes no sense that it'd be somehow faster) I hate those kind of bonuses, and I'm more tolerant to the bonuses in general than most.

3. It'd have helped IMMENSELY if they had simply told us that skinlinks are retconned and gone. Kind of like they did with Dikote. But they didn't! So now, tons of people are mad that they don't exist. It probaly means they're making us wait for a Sourcebook, which is irritating because it's such a central item to this whole deal. It'd have helped if they told us PAN worked for certain bonuses, such as the equipment bonuses. But they didn't, so many GMs will probaly have to houserule it.

no, people are getting upset because the dystopian future got stupider with the megacorps actively doing more to make the lives of everyone in or out of their direct influence more vulnerable to matrix assault from anyone who has the tools and skills regardless of who they work for. the corps have to hold the idiot ball too, if they want their own gear to work.

And people are upset that the things used to make deckers relevant do not actually make sense. From a security perspective they are stupid. From a military perspective they are stupid. From a police perspective they are stupid. There is no way anyone would actually leave themselves this vulnerable.

The worst part is, they don't actually make deckers more relevant.

They're an anchor tied around the team decker's neck, because he's got to focus on guarding his sammy from getting shut down, while the opposition (by dint of being able to afford to have more than one decker and being backed up by GOD) are free to do other things and guard their people.

don't forget how quick people are to object that attacking things through the matrix is generally not very effective at rapidly disabling things... which of course, isn't nearly as much of a problem when you can spare half a dozen hackers to all attack the same thing each round. or, in other words, as soon as the team hacker targets something an enemy hacker will defend, while the other 4-5 (or however many they have handy) will all pick a target and wreck anything the runner team has left undefended...

of course, now we just wait for someone to come in and tell us how that isn't very sportsmanlike (and as we all know, corporations worth running against get to that point only by showing high levels of good sportsmanship, amirite?)

1. Sure they will react and I wouldn't be surprised if a future splatbook covers options for back-alley cyberware "fixes" that remove the wireless but cause issues on their own like a chance for failure due to black market parts and code (keeping with the everything has a price theme that I really like).

2 and 3. While it is a little frustrating the core book is already jam packed as it is, so I see the point in waiting to release countermeasures and better fluff explanations as to why things work the way the do in later books. Hopefully they'll step up production and get them out pretty quick. Until then, I'll use my imagination to cover the inconsistencies and get on with enjoying the game.



If only there was an option to have the sammy initiate the ultimate defence from matrix attacks with a free action while the decker takes care of his side of things... Turning off wireless doesn't even shut the gear down it just takes away some bonuses so it's not that bad of a sacrifice for a few combat turns.

Basic matrix defence will keep you from even having to go that far-- a comlink with a good firewall running silent on a public grid will be a pain to find and deal with in the first place, add in noise and all of the sudden bricking you isn't going to be as easy as you're trying to make it out to be.

well that didn't take long.

1) difficult to do (as in taking several actions, because that's what it really means) is a bad thing for players (who get stuck with only one character's worth of actions), and not really a major problem for a corporation or security provider (who can reasonably have multiple hackers on call and nearby, ready to get to work on finding and shutting down anything wireless that your runner team uses).

2) if it's hard for hackers to do all this crud, plus they have to deal with the chance that they'll draw *extra* attention on top of the local security hackers tearing them a new one, how the hell does that provide hackers with a supposedly legitimate option in combat? either it's doable, and it adds to the concerns of defense because the people you're up against have a lot more folks to do it, or it isn't doable, and it doesn't add anything for hackers to do in combat.

3) oh sure, i'll just hop into the public matrix in this secure corporate facility and - oh wait, if they're not complete and utter morons, this secure corporate facility shuts down access to the public grid so that their private grid is secure. use only public grid, and you probably never got your wireless bonus in the first place, and it may as well not exist. noise also only causes a problem if you're not within a close distance. anything within 10 km is easily dealt with if you just use a basic program and have a datajack, and given that whoever is responsible for the facility has probably taken the time to check if they're going to be able to do so, and take steps to ensure that they *can* do so, noise is probably not going to do squat to help you. unless you throw down a jammer, in which case, well, there goes your wireless bonuses anyways.

There is no acceptable "fluff" explanation that could make me accept that somehow matrix connectivity allows me to open my fingertip compartment faster. A splatbook with some ridiculous "in-game" reason for these nonsense bonuses just makes it worse.

It's probably something I'm just going to have ignore as a GM, and try to convince GM's I play with to do the same.

1. Pg 421 Toggling an individual device’s wireless functionality
off is a Free Action, as is toggling all of your wireless
devices to “wireless off.” You lose wireless bonuses,
but the items can no longer be wirelessly hacked.

One free action = total matrix defence.

2. Because if we went with hyper-realism no run would ever work. There are gaps favoring the players allowing them to do what they do because first and foremost this a game.

3. Do you have a page reference as to how someone would "shut down access to the public grid"? How about one for that says wireless bonuses don't work on the public grid? Since it's quite obvious you have not read the rules yet, or have and don't understand them, I suggest you educate yourself instead of just making things up.

No , Not at all (totally wrong bytheway)
People are getting upset ,because theres crummy ,stupid WiFi-Rules in SR5
Lots of us already mentioned that the WiFi Bonus as a Default Line is a good Idea, only the way it was implemented is (wahay) ...Faulty
I wouldn't mind a more dystopian Future, I wouldn't mind more Pink Mohawk (or more "V" like Vendetta, Equilibrium, etc)
But I DO MIND unlogical and faulty Rules
Plus what BinaryWraith and Shadow Knight posted
@Jaids Posting
I remember how happy players where when Grounding was erased in SR3, so they wheren't nerft anymore from the Astral Plane.
Now CGL invented "the Matrix Grounding" and Players are (rightly) Annoied

Hough !
Medicineman

I read about tacnets in unwired and thought this is an awesome idea. I don't know that it was well implemented and I found it odd that there are no costs for them. But the ideas are sound. tying together everyones data like our current military does is an awesome idea. being able to keep track of your targets that you can't see through your team mates is awesome. So much potential for making deckers useful by having them take cover near the team and coordinate things, would be useful.

We should as a group come up with replacements for wireless bonuses and tac nets and send to catalyst and say this not wireless bonuses.

It's sort of back, in a toned down manner.

Pg. 307 Disenchanting can temporarily deactivate an active focus , make an Opposed
Disenchanting + Magic [Astral] v. target’s Force + owner’s
Magic Test. You can do this from the physical or
astral plane, though you must have line of sight to the
focus. If you get more successes on the test, the focus
deactivates.

Reactivating is not so hard, but if that was your reflex sustaining foci you are screeching to slow until you power it back up.

This also works on the preparations, and if the preparation has a
contact trigger and you fail the Disenchanting Test, the
preparation activates. Be

Now if you see a mage packing a couple of globes with runes scripted on it and you can figure out they may be magic fireball grenades (with a contact trigger for lobbing at someone) you could go astral and either shut it down or make it go boom on the carrier, a win win in any case.

This is not what I meant.
Dual beings (Shifter, Foki) where always vulnerable from Astral Attacks.
Grounding meant that
Mundanes have no (or hardly any ) chance to protect themselves or counterattack the astral Mage
And I see a similarity in the new hacking rules.

JahtaHey
Medicineman

Ironically, THIS IS EXACATLY WHAT THE LINE DEVELOPER AT CGL WANTS TO ELIMINATE. The EASY, 100% Effective Defense. Which WILL become the norm (Hell, My Hacker has NO ONLINE PRESENCE except for his Deck and Comlink. Not ONE OTHER Device ON THE MATRIX, because it is stupid to leave such glaring security holes in place for someone who sneaks into secure facilities to cause mayhem). And then you are back to what JM Hardy was bemoaning prior to 5th Edition and his decision to force the issue.

As for "Not getting my online bonuses" I have to say,who cares? None of them make me WANT to go online to get the bonuses. There is nothing worth the risk on the entire list provided. They are just that dumb.

There is a cost for a Tacnet... it is not insurmountable (but can be costly, depending upon the route you went to obtain your Sensor Channels), to be sure, but there is a Cost.

So my mage is just going have to get used to using a control spell on the target(s) to command them to turn ON all their wireless capable devices and let the decker have his wicked wifi way with them.

Does that still count as evil?

I would just shoot them, even as a Mage. Easier and less Drain.

i couldn't find it.

1) so we're right back to the decker having nothing to do in combat? oh wow, such a great change, how they made it so that deckers have something to do in combat, except that now you're telling me they didn't give deckers anything to do in combat because nobody is going to use wireless bonuses any time the decker actually has a realistic chance of being able to do something in combat. how the hell does that count as an improvement?

2) i'm not asking for hyper-realism. i'm asking for the hyper-stupid to go away.

3) public grid is cheap and crappy. block wireless signals, you block the public grid. there are various ways of doing this, ranging from just picking a place where the public grid's inherent crappiness makes it extra crappy, to installing wifi-inhibiting walls, wallpaper, or paint, faraday cages, jammers, or simply choosing a location that is not physically close to public grid access. it doesn't matter if you yourself invest in super-special-awesome gear to get through the noise... the public grid has to be able to get it's signal to you as well, and since the public grid is cheap and crappy, blocking the cheap and crappy signal is not very hard. in fact, given that nobody has a legitimate reason to be upgrading their grid to the point where it punches through privacy barriers that most any corp would install around private areas (ie any place worth running in a corp facility), the only grid that should be available is that corporation's grid.

Tacnets are 3,000 Nuyen per Rating for the Programs (You can run either Distributed, which requires everyone to be running the program, or you can run Centralized for 1 copy, each has their Benefits. Then, each participant in the Tacnet needs enough sensor Channels (to contribute effectively) equal to twice the rating of the Tacnet. Lots of ways to go about that one. Sensors cost nuyen. so... there is a cost, but it is not prohibitively expensive.

We have run both Distributed and Centralized Tacnets in our teams.