Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Submachine guns
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Smash
I rarely have a toon that utilises SMGs. In every edition they just seem like inferior assault rifles.

What I have always found frustrating is that in every edition (and it seems in 5th Ed as well, but hopefully I've just missed it) the writers tend to do a bad job at defining all the little nuances for all the classes of weapons.

For instance. How many hands does a pistol use? One right? How do we know? Probably some fluff text somewhere or we’re assuming they work the same as real life.

SMGs seem to sit in this void between everything. Bigger than a pistol, smaller than a rifle. What’s it for? Can I use it one-handed? Then why use a pistol, is there a penalty, is the pistol more concealable? Are they easier to use indoors than Rifles? This would make sense, but how does this work mechanically?

Some of this stuff is explained in the SMG description some of it isn’t, bits and pieces are probably sprinkled through the skills and other sections.

To me the weapons chapter needs a stat block for what weapons types share. Eg:

SMG
Skill: Automatics
Hands required: 2 (Can be fired in one at -2, -1 accuracy)
Concealability: -2 dice to palming check
Attachments allowed: Barrel, top, stock
Whatever else I’m forgetting.

So far all I can see SMGs being good for is for versatility why being a combat biker. Pretty niche weapon though…….
tasti man LH
The big thing I always viewed with SMGs was that if you wanted to bring in a Concealable firearm, but something with a bit more firepower than your average pistol.
FuelDrop
QUOTE (Smash @ Aug 5 2013, 02:56 PM) *
I rarely have a toon that utilises SMGs. In every edition they just seem like inferior assault rifles.

What I have always found frustrating is that in every edition (and it seems in 5th Ed as well, but hopefully I've just missed it) the writers tend to do a bad job at defining all the little nuances for all the classes of weapons.

For instance. How many hands does a pistol use? One right? How do we know? Probably some fluff text somewhere or we’re assuming they work the same as real life.

SMGs seem to sit in this void between everything. Bigger than a pistol, smaller than a rifle. What’s it for? Can I use it one-handed? Then why use a pistol, is there a penalty, is the pistol more concealable? Are they easier to use indoors than Rifles? This would make sense, but how does this work mechanically?

Some of this stuff is explained in the SMG description some of it isn’t, bits and pieces are probably sprinkled through the skills and other sections.

To me the weapons chapter needs a stat block for what weapons types share. Eg:

SMG
Skill: Automatics
Hands required: 2 (Can be fired in one at -2, -1 accuracy)
Concealability: -2 dice to palming check
Attachments allowed: Barrel, top, stock
Whatever else I’m forgetting.

So far all I can see SMGs being good for is for versatility why being a combat biker. Pretty niche weapon though…….


SMGs are far subtler than assault rifles, being easier to conceal and less likely to attract the attention of the heavy response elements of the police than their larger cousin. They also tend to be better at stealth, with the Ingram smartgun X being a favorite of street sams the world over for good reason.

Shadowrun isn't dungeons and dragons, where the objective is to kill the monsters and swipe the treasure. In Shadowrun the SMG combines good (often suppressed) firepower and the ability to take that firepower to a lot of places without attracting too much attention. One final benefit is that SMGs are considerably cheaper than most ARs, making them better disposable weapons.
Lynchmob
If you wanted to make them more useful you could enact a no suppressor on supersonic rounds house rule. You'd have to decide which weapons use supersonic rounds and then maybe allow for subsonic rounds to be fired at a reduced damage/AP penalty but that just might lead to huge lengthy arguments between all of the firearms experts and firearms "experts".
phlapjack77
QUOTE (Smash @ Aug 5 2013, 02:56 PM) *
To me the weapons chapter needs a stat block for what weapons types share. Eg:

SMG
Skill: Automatics
Hands required: 2 (Can be fired in one at -2, -1 accuracy)
Concealability: -2 dice to palming check
Attachments allowed: Barrel, top, stock
Whatever else I’m forgetting.

I like this idea, and share your frustration at getting some actual descriptions and rules on the different weapon types. This seems like a pretty good start.


QUOTE (tasti man LH @ Aug 5 2013, 03:08 PM) *
The big thing I always viewed with SMGs was that if you wanted to bring in a Concealable firearm, but something with a bit more firepower than your average pistol.
I think this niche is filled with the machine pistol though.
Voran
Basically the same reason you use SMGs in the real world. Portability, less blow-through with ammo. Not only are they easier to stash on your person, but also in things like vehicles and the like.

In game, I suspect yeah, the niche is kinda covered with machine pistols. But their shorter barrels and general lack of heft likely leads to a less precise weapon compared to a smg. While you can one hand a machine pistol, I also imagine that means unless you're using a stock on it, all that recoil is going into your....wrist.

In game, I don't see the point of the full auto machine pistol, instead the ruger t-bolt and stuff make more sense, your 'robocop' pistol as it were.
Ixal
QUOTE (phlapjack77 @ Aug 5 2013, 08:34 AM) *
I think this niche is filled with the machine pistol though.


Both fill that niche. MPs are more concealable, while SMGs offer more power.
Jaid
vs machine pistols:
- range
- damage
- accuracy
- generally better for full automatic
- generally more recoil compensation built in due to folding stocks
- frequently come with better accessories

(these don't always hold up on a case-by-case basis, but if you compare the best machine pistols in their category to the best SMG in their category, the SMGs do seem to come out ahead fairly consistently imo).

vs assault rifles:
- concealability
- encumbrance (depends what else you're carrying, and whether it's a main or backup weapon)
- legality/expected security response
- potential to dual-wield for certain specialized builds

and possibly other things i haven't considered. ultimately, it's best to bring the right tool for the right job. you may not feel that the SMG isn't the right tool for your character, but i think i would generally prefer it over a machine pistol (if i'm going to go for extra concealable, i'll probably go further down the concealability chain to a regular pistol).
RHat
Generally, any Automatics-using character should have an idea as to what their ideal choice for a Machine Pistol, Submachine Gun, and Assault Rifle are - and if they don't begin play owning all of them, they should make a point to get them in pretty short order. I could easily see a character starting play with a Crusader II and either a Praetor or Model 100, and then acquiring a Raiden in pretty short order in play.

Frankly, an Automatics user has a much easier time gearing up than a Longarms user.
Umidori
SMGs are the largest one-handed firearms, or at least they were in 4E, so they used to have a very nice niche if you knew how to make use of them. However, with the new recoil and single "Attack Action" systems of 5E, their heyday of being the best non-penalized firearms for dual-wielding may possibly be over.

That said, they're still a very viable compromise option for a lot of things. Want concealability? Sure, you could go for a Machine Pistol, but those are lacking in damage, RC, ammo capacity, and accessories. Want firepower? Sure, you could go for an assault rifle, but maybe that extra concealability on the SMG will be the edge you need to actually get it through security to where you need it?

It's just one more option for players. It may not be the obvious FOO (First Order Optimal) Choice, but thankfully 5E seems to have produced a lot less of those so far than 4E did. Gear choice is now less "Duh, this is clearly objectively better, why wouldn't I take this?" and more "Hmm, do I want X at the cost of Y, or Y at the cost of Z? Decisions..."

~Umi
RHat
Well, a FOO option isn't the BEST option to begin with - it's the one that gets the best result for the least effort, leaving open the possibility of better options for more effort.
Umidori
True, but I definitely feel that Assault Rifles have historically been something of a FOO option (at least in 4E) because they give you More Dakka™ and because concealability is not as obvious of a restriction, and with some styles of play isn't even really an impediment.

SMGs are definitely not a FOO option, but they're maybe a SOO or TOO option, depending on your needs and challenges.

~Umi
RHat
Yeah, AR's are a bit like that - perhaps the Automatics group as a whole, really, while Longarms is probably better for the dedicated firearms specialist (see: designated marksman). Pistols are probably the most like that, since you don't have to put any effort into concealment or recoil compensation to be able to use them as intended - the Warhawk especially so.
Umidori
To be honest, I'd consider the Warhawk a +2 concealment modifier instead of a +0, and certain of the Machine Pistols a +0 instead of their normal +2.

I always wished Concealment would get some form of Advanced Rules, or heck, even individual listings for individual items. While applying a single value to a category of similar weapons works most of the time, there are a number of fringe cases where it really should be spelled out specifically for an individual item. They do this in some cases, like the Short Barrel Defiance T-250 being only a +2 in Arsenal (I just checked, for some reason it went up to +4 in SR5? Fragging hell.), but they don't do this for plenty of other weapons that they really should, like the Warhawk.

~Umi
RHat
Layout wise, it wouldn't even be that hard to add it as an entry to the stat line for a weapon.
Wakshaani
QUOTE (Smash @ Aug 5 2013, 01:56 AM) *
I rarely have a toon that utilises SMGs. In every edition they just seem like inferior assault rifles.

What I have always found frustrating is that in every edition (and it seems in 5th Ed as well, but hopefully I've just missed it) the writers tend to do a bad job at defining all the little nuances for all the classes of weapons.

For instance. How many hands does a pistol use? One right? How do we know? Probably some fluff text somewhere or we’re assuming they work the same as real life.

SMGs seem to sit in this void between everything. Bigger than a pistol, smaller than a rifle. What’s it for? Can I use it one-handed? Then why use a pistol, is there a penalty, is the pistol more concealable? Are they easier to use indoors than Rifles? This would make sense, but how does this work mechanically?

Some of this stuff is explained in the SMG description some of it isn’t, bits and pieces are probably sprinkled through the skills and other sections.

To me the weapons chapter needs a stat block for what weapons types share. Eg:

SMG
Skill: Automatics
Hands required: 2 (Can be fired in one at -2, -1 accuracy)
Concealability: -2 dice to palming check
Attachments allowed: Barrel, top, stock
Whatever else I’m forgetting.

So far all I can see SMGs being good for is for versatility why being a combat biker. Pretty niche weapon though…….


This is a very good idea, by the by. I'd probably establish a set level of information that all guns of teh type share (All SMGs have blank), but leave room for an individual tweak on a per-gun basis. (This particular SMG has modified blank)

Mind you, I also want to add a lil' tweak on Accuracy, based on using one or two hands. (For example, using an SMG with two hands gives +1 Accuracy, using a Katana in one hand gives -2 Accuracy, and so on.)It's a tad more finicky than most games need, but it's nice to have as an optional rule for certain tables.
nezumi
I've used SMGs as the Jack-of-All-Trades. Concealable like a handgun (not quite as much though), auto-fire like an assault rifle (not quite as much though), space for modifications like a rifle (not quite as much though). My face used SMGs and had a smugglable one, a long-range one, and a spray-and-pray one she'd pull off as needed, all with one skill. She later built up the Rifle skill, still don't have any range, but between those two skills she could fill most combat roles passably.
ShadowDragon8685
A submachinegun is a good choice when you need something that you can just use. Most of them have semi, burst and auto fire modes, they do decent enough damage and can carry truely monstrous quantities of ammunition with the right mods.

Thing is, it's not gonna be perfect for anything. Concealability, maneuverability and social acceptability? Pistols. Range? Rifles of any sort. Close-quarters firepower? Shotguns. Penetration? Battle rifles. Ammunition capacity? Machine gun.

But, if you can only take one gun to the run, you're probably going to want to take a submachine gun, because you can use it for nearly everything. Not as well as a gun designed for that niche, but well enough to get the job done.
Shortstraw
Take an M-4A1 Carbine (GH21)- damage of an AR, concealability of an SMG (and since it is an SMG you could technically fire it one handed - warning: one handed use may result in severe beating by GM).
Mäx
You can Dualwield almost anything.
Sendaz
But can he dualwield fire and run? nyahnyah.gif
cryptoknight
QUOTE (phlapjack77 @ Aug 5 2013, 01:34 AM) *
I like this idea, and share your frustration at getting some actual descriptions and rules on the different weapon types. This seems like a pretty good start.


I think this niche is filled with the machine pistol though.


Technically that's what SMGs are though

For instance, one of today's most common SMGs is the MP-5
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_MP5
QUOTE
The Heckler & Koch MP5 (from German: Maschinenpistole 5, "machine pistol model 5") is a 9mm submachine gun of German design, developed in the 1960s by a team of engineers from the German small arms manufacturer Heckler & Koch GmbH (H&K) of Oberndorf am Neckar. There are over 100 variants of the MP5,[4] including a semi-automatic version.


smile.gif
Mäx
QUOTE (Sendaz @ Aug 5 2013, 07:25 PM) *
But can he dualwield fire and run? nyahnyah.gif

Backwards, sure cool.gif

Crypto, does German language even have a word for SMG?
Just asking cos my language really doesn't just "konepistooli" witch is direct translation of machine pistol.
cryptoknight
QUOTE (Umidori @ Aug 5 2013, 03:30 AM) *
True, but I definitely feel that Assault Rifles have historically been something of a FOO option (at least in 4E) because they give you More Dakka™ and because concealability is not as obvious of a restriction, and with some styles of play isn't even really an impediment.

SMGs are definitely not a FOO option, but they're maybe a SOO or TOO option, depending on your needs and challenges.

~Umi



What I find amusing about this is that just about every Sam I've ever made, starting with 1e has always had a selection of SMGs

Mostly Ingrams... but these days I tend to lean toward HK227's

Assault rifles are like a big club, I like to think of SMGs as the surgical scalpel when automatic fire is required.
Sendaz
I have seen Maschinenpistole used but that may just be a local usage.
Elfenlied
Machinenpistole is correct.
cryptoknight
QUOTE (Mäx @ Aug 5 2013, 10:31 AM) *
Backwards, sure cool.gif

Crypto, does German language even have a word for SMG?
Just asking cos my language really doesn't just "konepistooli" witch is direct translation of machine pistol.


If you really think about what a Machine Pistol vs a Sub Machine Gun is, they are effectively the same thing.

both fire pistol ammo (typically 9mm P today). And a lot of them can be stuck in a holster (Mini-Uzi for instance).
Big uzis are SMGs, smaller ones are Machine Pistols. Yet my 100' tape measure and my 10' tape measures don't have different names nyahnyah.gif
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_uzi#Variants

they're just two terms for almost the same thing. One is just slightly bigger than the other, and a lot of them fall into both categories.

For instance, the Ingram Smartgun is an SMG in Shadowrun, but it's the descendant of the MAC-10/MAC-11 family of Machine Pistols smile.gif
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC-11
Skynet
QUOTE (Mäx @ Aug 5 2013, 06:31 PM) *
(...)
Crypto, does German language even have a word for SMG?
Just asking cos my language really doesn't just "konepistooli" witch is direct translation of machine pistol.


The military term would be Maschinenpistole (literally "machine pistol"). I have not seen an official term for what SR labels a machine pistol, probably something along the lines of "Automatikpistole" (i.e. "automatic pistol"). I'm more of a weapons "expert" than a weapons expert, though wink.gif (The only times I shot any weapons was during my basic military service ("Grundausbildung", 9 months of mandatory service unless you do the equivalent time in civil services ("Zivildienst").)

€dit: WIkipedia says it's "Reihenfeuerpistole", a pretty unusual term (at least to my ears).
X-Kalibur
QUOTE (Mäx @ Aug 5 2013, 09:23 AM) *


Well, I suppose that would make for decent suppressive fire.
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Mäx @ Aug 5 2013, 12:23 PM) *


Damn, he really should have said "Say hello to my little friends!" before he opened fire.

QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Aug 5 2013, 12:55 PM) *
Well, I suppose that would make for decent suppressive fire.


Yep. Nobody would want to be anywhere in about a 90-degree arc in front of him and not have their asses safely in a trench or armored vehicle or something.
Shinxy
The funny thing is, IRL the same criticisms of SMGs have been leveled as well. In the 80s, when Shadowrun was first coming out, SMGs were all the rage among SWAT and special forces teams. Everyone and their mom was using the MP5 and you couldn't have a depiction of a generic terrorist in an action movie without an Uzi showing up somewhere. In the late 90s and 2000s though, the lack of armor penetration, poor range, and awkward middle-ground size was critiqued, and there was a general move away from SMGs towards carbines like the M4. Nowadays you're much more likely to see operators handling a scaled-down assault rifle than an SMG. The new hotness in the SMG size category is the "PDW", personal defense weapon, which is an SMG-like weapon that generally fires a rifle-sized armor penetrating bullet. (See: FN P90.)

I still equip my characters with SMGs all the time because I think they look cool and I love that 80s flavor. (Also love recreating this scene from GitS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIiRRgb0nPE) In my games I allow them to be quite a bit more concealable than an assault rifle (easily hidden on a sling under a longcoat, for example). I also see no problem with using them one-handed if one isn't using the folding stock some of them come with. But yeah, game mechanics wise as well as real life wise, you'd probably be better off with an AR.
Mäx
QUOTE (Skynet @ Aug 5 2013, 07:46 PM) *
The military term would be Maschinenpistole (literally "machine pistol").

So that would be a no.
Just wanted to sheck my hunch that you can't really draw much conclusion from the fact that MP5 is a "machine pistol" by its German name, as there's no seperate word for SMG like the English has.
Ixal
QUOTE (Mäx @ Aug 5 2013, 09:15 PM) *
So that would be a no.
Just wanted to sheck my hunch that you can't really draw much conclusion from the fact that MP5 is a "machine pistol" by its German name, as there's no seperate word for SMG like the English has.


Exactly.
Roughly it goes like this in German.
Pistole: One handed semi automatic gun (including the ones with burst fire). (The term Revolver is also used in German)
Maschinenpistole: Small gun (theoretically usable with one hand) with full automatic fire.
Gewehr: Semi automatic long gun.
Sturmgewehr: Magazine fed long arms with full automatic capability.
Schrotflinte: Every shotgun, no matter the available fire modes.
Maschinengewehr: Every belt fed long arm with full automatic fire mode.

A little bit of history, the worlds first assault rifle was at first also only a "Maschinenpistole" and only later renamed into assault rifle.
TheOneRonin
QUOTE (Shinxy @ Aug 5 2013, 12:56 PM) *
The funny thing is, IRL the same criticisms of SMGs have been leveled as well. In the 80s, when Shadowrun was first coming out, SMGs were all the rage among SWAT and special forces teams. Everyone and their mom was using the MP5 and you couldn't have a depiction of a generic terrorist in an action movie without an Uzi showing up somewhere. In the late 90s and 2000s though, the lack of armor penetration, poor range, and awkward middle-ground size was critiqued, and there was a general move away from SMGs towards carbines like the M4.


The timing has more to do with carbines becoming much more available and body armor becoming much more prolific than real deficiencies with the SMG platform. The M4 rolled out about 1994, and with an OAL of 29", was just a hair longer than the MP5A2 w/fixed stock. Better ballistics, better range, and better barrier penetration than an MP5 in the same size package.

QUOTE
Nowadays you're much more likely to see operators handling a scaled-down assault rifle than an SMG. The new hotness in the SMG size category is the "PDW", personal defense weapon, which is an SMG-like weapon that generally fires a rifle-sized armor penetrating bullet. (See: FN P90.)


All told, the 5.7x28mm (and MP7 4.6x30mm) rounds are garbage when it comes to killing bad guys. The reason you carry 40 - 50 round mags is that you need to dump half of one just to put someone down.

And SR has be garbage as well when it comes to modeling damage and armor penetration of those weapon systems (and of most firearms too).

And to nit-pick (nothing personal, Shinxy), it's a stretch to call the the 5.7mm "rifle-sized". The M855A1 5.56x45mm round currently being fielded by the US Army and USMC has a 62 grain copper slug with a steel tip that comes out of an M4 at ~2900fps

The 5.7x28mm round has a 23 grain copper jacketed plastic core projectile that, at best, is going to see a MV around 2400fps. I know which one I'd rather be shot with.


QUOTE
I still equip my characters with SMGs all the time because I think they look cool and I love that 80s flavor. (Also love recreating this scene from GitS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIiRRgb0nPE) In my games I allow them to be quite a bit more concealable than an assault rifle (easily hidden on a sling under a longcoat, for example). I also see no problem with using them one-handed if one isn't using the folding stock some of them come with. But yeah, game mechanics wise as well as real life wise, you'd probably be better off with an AR.


One-handed firearm operation (whether SMG or pistol) is 100% pink mohawk. That's fine if it's the kind of campaign you are in, but has no place in a setting more serious.

To me, it really comes down to the mission. ARs are great, and the go-to choice if you are going to be in a gunfight. But what does the mission call for? Are you going to be infiltrating via the sewers and exfiling by chopper? Sure...AR all the way. Are you going to have to disguise yourself and your team as employees, and plan on running out the front door with the rest of the wage slaves after you pull the fire alarm? Yeah...an AR won't be your friend there.
Epicedion
The factors are really cost, portability/concealability, and licensing

The Ingram Smartgun comes with gas-vent 2, integral suppressor, and a smartlink. For 800 nuyen, Availability 6R.

The marginally better Colt M23, the cheapest, easiest to get assault rifle, is 1100 nuyen for the integral smartlinked version (6R), plus another 400 for the gas-vent 2 (6R), and then another 500 for the suppressor (9F). 2000 nuyen total.

The workhorse AK-97 is 2800 for the same kit (at 6R + 6R + 9F), and the Ares Alpha is 3,150 (at 11F + 9F).

So you can get the Ingram Smartgun for 800 cash in a minute in a half, or throw out several times that and have it in a day or two. Plus the Ingram can be licensed and carried on the street with just a nod from the cops, which no suppressed assault rifle can claim. Plus you can hide the Ingram under your coat or in a backpack in a pinch.
Voran
Likewise some of the 'less dmg' aspects of the SMG can be mitigated by ammo load. Slapping on APDS for example helps even things up vs armored dudes. Sure its not as good as a bigger gun with APDS vs armor, but its likely enough to help keep heads down. And a fun thing about ammo is that unless you've got RIFD tags screaming, "I'm Armor Piercing Incendiary rounds, totally FORBIDDEN!" there's no way to easily tell what kind of ammo you've got until you start opening up.

So restricted gun + forbidden ammo can possibly pass a cursory inspection unless the guy strips your mags and checks to see what ammo you've got.
Umidori
QUOTE (Voran @ Aug 6 2013, 01:34 AM) *
And a fun thing about ammo is that unless you've got RIFD tags screaming, "I'm Armor Piercing Incendiary rounds, totally FORBIDDEN!" there's no way to easily tell what kind of ammo you've got until you start opening up.

Not true.

Here are a few examples of sabot rounds. (Although I kind of suspect that APDS is supposed to be more of a miniaturized version of these much larger anti-armour rounds for tank main guns and artillery.)

Note that they're all very noticeably not normal ammunition. The sabot itself is an obvious component of the round. If you go through security, they're gonna check your ammo, and they're gonna have problems with your ammo looking like this, because it sure as drek ain't hunting rounds.

Now yeah, if they're already loaded up in your gun, fine, they won't be obvious unless someone asks to inspect the gun. But people do ask to inspect your guns, and that includes checking to see if it's loaded, which will immediately reveal to them that your rounds aren't normal. If you're not expecting to be searched, you might as well just carry a duffel bag full of machine guns, LAWs, or plastic explosives instead of bothering to take an SMG. But in cases where you just might be searched? Bad idea to be packing APDS.

Unless you plan to pull a Matrix, that is. (Glob, such a good movie. So very Shadowrun, even if it is pretty damn Pink Mohawk. Gotta watch it again now.)

~Umi
Sendaz
I know the SOP is use a tag eraser for the RFID, but how hard would it be to rework to broadcast whatever you want?

Like say I want my ammo's RFID tags to show as Captain Crunch Cereal bits (ok, weird but go with it for a sec), preferably with the appropriate ARO to go with it.

If I use said ammo, the decker looking onto the fight sees hot flying Captain Crunch Cereal bits tearing his guys apart. (stays crunchy even in blood!)

Now obviously he will realize it's not really Captain Crunch Cereal but in fact actual bullets, but just for amusement factor how difficult a reprogramming would we be looking at?
Umidori
Well, according to 4E...

QUOTE ("SR4A @ p. 329")
Tag data is often fixed, but in some cases is reprogrammable. Tags are readable by anyone with a commlink. They have a Signal rating of 1.

The physical location of a tag can be found with a radio signal scanner (p. 334). Tag data can be erased with a tag eraser (p.  330) or programmed with an Edit program (which is what runners do to create fake tags). Fixed tag data can only be altered if the tag is physically accessed, requiring a Hardware + Logic (5, 1 minute) Extended Test. Data on a tag may be encrypted.

With a Signal rating of 1, unless you're using a radio signal scanner to detect the tags reporting their locations, you as a decker wouldn't realistically detect them flying through the air unless they're doing so within a very short distance of you, which seems unhealthy.

Rules don't seem to have changed much in 5E.

QUOTE ("SR5 @ p. 440)
Tag data can be erased with a tag eraser (p. 441) or programmed with an Edit File action (p. 239).

There's no longer any mention of Fixed data, or requiring a Hardware test to modify such information, though. Maybe RFID tags are now completely unfixed and totally reprogrammable?

~Umi
RHat
QUOTE (Umidori @ Aug 6 2013, 02:43 AM) *
Rules don't seem to have changed much in 5E.


Other than the fact that Signal doesn't exist as an attribute anymore, and everything has a "handshake range" of 100m?
Umidori
Point. I suppose if you set the RFID to constantly broadcast, rather than just update it's GPS-derived location every so often, anyone within 100m will detect it.

So yes, I suppose you could shoot Captain Crunch at someone, although there's a decent chance they'd be filtering out data that looks useless like that.

~Umi
RHat
Right up until you look at the players (who failed their surprise tests) and say "According to your AR display, a few dozen pieces of Captain Crunch have come flying down the hallway. Roll for soak."
Voran
If you're waltzing through a static checkpoint sure, but in a 'just checking your commlinks to see if your license are valid' spot check, which would likely describe most outdoors/external screens, they're not going to go "please unload all your mags". I suppose you could also just top off a mag with a round or two of conventional, and hide the fun stuff lower. Heck, smartguns let you skip through it if you want smile.gif

This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012